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posted by Jim Reynolds Looking for any info on 2 bats that I have such as what model the player order, how many were ordered, etc.
email: deputy7621@aol.com
Mike Specht wrote 2005-10-13 01:38:26
RE: Looking for bat ordering info/identification for Bill Madlock and Tom Underwood.
Hi Jim --
Here is the information on Bill Madlock's Louisville Slugger bats throughout his career:
Bill Madlock ordered the following H & B model bats during his "pre-rookie" era, between 1970 and 1972: K55 (39 bats), Mc44 (4) and S2 (3). All bats used his facsimile signature on the barrel label, with the possible exception of four of the K55 bats and the four Mc44 bats which may have been produced with block lettering.
, All bats ordered were 35 inches in length, a length that was consistent throughout his entire career with the exception of a single order of 10 bats in 1982 (see below). The bats were ordered in weights of 31, 32, and 33 ounces.
In 1973, Madlock debuted with the Texas Rangers.That year he placed orders for R161 (24) and S2 (18) model bats. His Uniform Number during his rookie season was 28. which may or may not be written on the knob and/or barrel end of his bats in some type of marker.
Following his rookie season, on 10/25/73, he was traded to the Chicago Cubs for Ferguson Jenkins. During the remainder of the 1973-1975 H & B labeling period, Madlock placed orders for R161 (24), S2 (48), and C235 ((120) model bats. During 1975, a year in which he won the N.L. Batting Title, he ordered C235 bats exclusively. His Uniform Number with the Cubs was 18.
During the Bicentennial year of 1976, Madlock remained with the Cubs, wearing Uniform Number 18, and ordered the following model Bats, all of which had 1976 labeling that included the Liberty Bell and a Baseball Bat within a circle to the right of the center label: C235 (66) and M246 (18). It is interesting to note that model M246 was made for him, however exactly matched model C235. It is noted in the H & B factory records that it is Ok to "stamp Madlock's model C235 bats with M246 per Rex Bradley. " Madlock again won the N.L. Batting Title in 1976.
On 2/11/77 Madlock was traded to the San Francisco Giants for Bobby Murcer, where he remained during almost the entire 1977-1979 H & B labeling period. With the Giants, Madlock again wore Uniform Number 18. His bat orders during that labeling period included models C235 ((132), C263 ((156), K48 (16) and H174 (2). On 6/28/79 he was traded to the Pittsburgh Pirates where he ordered six of the C263 bats and all of the K48 bats from this labeling period. Madlock also switched to Uniform Number 5 when he joined the Pirates.
Madlock palyed with the Pirates throughout the 1980-1983 and most of the 1983-1985 labeling periods (1983 was a label transition year). He again won the N.L. Batting Title in 1981. Bats ordered included K48 (232)), M263 (12), M266 (120), M246 (10), K55 (10), M270 (3), M271 (10), S2 (12), and K48L (12). On 8/31/85 Madlock was traded to the Los Angeles Dodgers, where he wore Uniform Number 52 for the remainder of the season, and had one order of K48 (36) bats shipped to him in Los Angeles.Note that an order of ten K55 bats dated 7/15/82 were 34.5 inches in length -- the only documented order in Madlock's career that was not 35 inches. Also, on 11/3/83 Major League Baseball ordered 36 model K48 Madlock bats that were 34 inches in length -- they were not intended for game use by Madlock, they were promotional bats used by Major League Baseball.
Madlock played with two teams during the 1986-1989 labeling period. He remained with the Dodgers in 1986 and part of 1987, switching to Uniform Number 12, and was released in May, 1987. He then signed with Detroit, where he wore Uniform Number 7 for the remainder of the year, at which time he ended his Major League career. During that labeling period he ordered models K48 ((162) and S2 (36),
A few miscellaneous comments about Bill Madlock game-used bats: Early bats from 1973 and 1974 may be found with cork-wrapped handles. 35 inches in length is an almost absolute requirement for all Madlock gamers, with the exception of 10 model K55 bats from the 1980-1983 labeling period that were ordered in 34.5 inch length. The majority of Madlock's bats were ordered with weights of either 32 or 33 oubces, although weight is a less reliable form of authentication due to fluctuations caused by storage conditions, etc. Over half of Madlock's bats throughout his career.had a Hickory finish, and in his final years with the Dodgers and Tigers, a significant number of Black finished bats are found.
Jim Reynolds wrote 2005-10-13 23:32:16RE: Looking for bat ordering info/identification for Bill Madlock and Tom Underwood.
Mike,
First let me say, outstanding information!
Now, my dilemma.....
I have a 35 inch bat from the 77-79 labeling period. There is a hand written "18" on the knob (Cubs/Giants uniform number). The script signature is most certainly Madlock. The bat model however is a C253, not a C235 or C263. In limited communications with H&B, they have indicated that the brander probably just mixed up the numbers while branding the bat.
Your thoughts?
Jim
Mike Specht wrote 2005-10-14 01:07:14
RE: Looking for bat ordering info/identification for Bill Madlock and Tom Underwood.
Hi Jim--
Here are a few more specifics on Mad Dog's bat orders of C235 and C263 models of H & B bats during the 1977-1979 labeling period. I am supposing that model as they contains the numbers that could get transposed into C253 (C235), or a number that could be mistakenly picked from the bins (a 5 instead of a 6) in the case of C263..
Check the finish. which refers to the oil or shellac finish applied to the bat after it was turned. Almost all of the C235 and C263 Madlock bats during this period had an 'old natural' finish (ash blonde in appearance) or a darker appearing 'hickory' finish.
Check the weight. Again, this is not a totally reliable standard due to weight increase/decrease depending on storage conditions. All bats ordered by Madlock during this labeling period were either 33, 34, or 35 ounces in weight.
All bats ordered by Madlock during this labeling period were 35 inches inlength, as is the bat you describe.
See if some research will turn up photos of another Madlock bat (any labeling period) or possibly the underside of a Madlock game used hat. You may be able to match the written Number 18 to another sample,
I have viewed the stamping process at the Louisville Slugger factory,and agree that a transposition of numbers as suggested by the H & B person you spoke with is a possibility.
Finally, if the professional model labeling is correct (as you indicate), I would probably be comfortable with the bat you describe. Although most collectors prefer bats that can be matched to factory records, the possible explanation from H & B is more solid that just an "I wish it was so" story. .
Good Luck.
Jim Reynolds wrote 2005-10-15 21:03:24
RE: Looking for bat ordering info/identification for Bill Madlock and Tom Underwood.
Mike,
Do you have an email address where I could send you some pics of the bat and you could tell me what you think?
Jim
Mike Specht wrote 2005-11-01 11:17:03
RE: Looking for bat ordering info/identification for Bill Madlock and Tom Underwood.
Hi Jim--
Sorry for the delay in responding. Sure, e-mail the pics to me at the following address and I'd be glad to share my opinion.
Jackitout7@aol.com
Mike
email: deputy7621@aol.com
Mike Specht wrote 2005-10-13 01:38:26
RE: Looking for bat ordering info/identification for Bill Madlock and Tom Underwood.
Hi Jim --
Here is the information on Bill Madlock's Louisville Slugger bats throughout his career:
Bill Madlock ordered the following H & B model bats during his "pre-rookie" era, between 1970 and 1972: K55 (39 bats), Mc44 (4) and S2 (3). All bats used his facsimile signature on the barrel label, with the possible exception of four of the K55 bats and the four Mc44 bats which may have been produced with block lettering.
, All bats ordered were 35 inches in length, a length that was consistent throughout his entire career with the exception of a single order of 10 bats in 1982 (see below). The bats were ordered in weights of 31, 32, and 33 ounces.
In 1973, Madlock debuted with the Texas Rangers.That year he placed orders for R161 (24) and S2 (18) model bats. His Uniform Number during his rookie season was 28. which may or may not be written on the knob and/or barrel end of his bats in some type of marker.
Following his rookie season, on 10/25/73, he was traded to the Chicago Cubs for Ferguson Jenkins. During the remainder of the 1973-1975 H & B labeling period, Madlock placed orders for R161 (24), S2 (48), and C235 ((120) model bats. During 1975, a year in which he won the N.L. Batting Title, he ordered C235 bats exclusively. His Uniform Number with the Cubs was 18.
During the Bicentennial year of 1976, Madlock remained with the Cubs, wearing Uniform Number 18, and ordered the following model Bats, all of which had 1976 labeling that included the Liberty Bell and a Baseball Bat within a circle to the right of the center label: C235 (66) and M246 (18). It is interesting to note that model M246 was made for him, however exactly matched model C235. It is noted in the H & B factory records that it is Ok to "stamp Madlock's model C235 bats with M246 per Rex Bradley. " Madlock again won the N.L. Batting Title in 1976.
On 2/11/77 Madlock was traded to the San Francisco Giants for Bobby Murcer, where he remained during almost the entire 1977-1979 H & B labeling period. With the Giants, Madlock again wore Uniform Number 18. His bat orders during that labeling period included models C235 ((132), C263 ((156), K48 (16) and H174 (2). On 6/28/79 he was traded to the Pittsburgh Pirates where he ordered six of the C263 bats and all of the K48 bats from this labeling period. Madlock also switched to Uniform Number 5 when he joined the Pirates.
Madlock palyed with the Pirates throughout the 1980-1983 and most of the 1983-1985 labeling periods (1983 was a label transition year). He again won the N.L. Batting Title in 1981. Bats ordered included K48 (232)), M263 (12), M266 (120), M246 (10), K55 (10), M270 (3), M271 (10), S2 (12), and K48L (12). On 8/31/85 Madlock was traded to the Los Angeles Dodgers, where he wore Uniform Number 52 for the remainder of the season, and had one order of K48 (36) bats shipped to him in Los Angeles.Note that an order of ten K55 bats dated 7/15/82 were 34.5 inches in length -- the only documented order in Madlock's career that was not 35 inches. Also, on 11/3/83 Major League Baseball ordered 36 model K48 Madlock bats that were 34 inches in length -- they were not intended for game use by Madlock, they were promotional bats used by Major League Baseball.
Madlock played with two teams during the 1986-1989 labeling period. He remained with the Dodgers in 1986 and part of 1987, switching to Uniform Number 12, and was released in May, 1987. He then signed with Detroit, where he wore Uniform Number 7 for the remainder of the year, at which time he ended his Major League career. During that labeling period he ordered models K48 ((162) and S2 (36),
A few miscellaneous comments about Bill Madlock game-used bats: Early bats from 1973 and 1974 may be found with cork-wrapped handles. 35 inches in length is an almost absolute requirement for all Madlock gamers, with the exception of 10 model K55 bats from the 1980-1983 labeling period that were ordered in 34.5 inch length. The majority of Madlock's bats were ordered with weights of either 32 or 33 oubces, although weight is a less reliable form of authentication due to fluctuations caused by storage conditions, etc. Over half of Madlock's bats throughout his career.had a Hickory finish, and in his final years with the Dodgers and Tigers, a significant number of Black finished bats are found.
Jim Reynolds wrote 2005-10-13 23:32:16RE: Looking for bat ordering info/identification for Bill Madlock and Tom Underwood.
Mike,
First let me say, outstanding information!
Now, my dilemma.....
I have a 35 inch bat from the 77-79 labeling period. There is a hand written "18" on the knob (Cubs/Giants uniform number). The script signature is most certainly Madlock. The bat model however is a C253, not a C235 or C263. In limited communications with H&B, they have indicated that the brander probably just mixed up the numbers while branding the bat.
Your thoughts?
Jim
Mike Specht wrote 2005-10-14 01:07:14
RE: Looking for bat ordering info/identification for Bill Madlock and Tom Underwood.
Hi Jim--
Here are a few more specifics on Mad Dog's bat orders of C235 and C263 models of H & B bats during the 1977-1979 labeling period. I am supposing that model as they contains the numbers that could get transposed into C253 (C235), or a number that could be mistakenly picked from the bins (a 5 instead of a 6) in the case of C263..
Check the finish. which refers to the oil or shellac finish applied to the bat after it was turned. Almost all of the C235 and C263 Madlock bats during this period had an 'old natural' finish (ash blonde in appearance) or a darker appearing 'hickory' finish.
Check the weight. Again, this is not a totally reliable standard due to weight increase/decrease depending on storage conditions. All bats ordered by Madlock during this labeling period were either 33, 34, or 35 ounces in weight.
All bats ordered by Madlock during this labeling period were 35 inches inlength, as is the bat you describe.
See if some research will turn up photos of another Madlock bat (any labeling period) or possibly the underside of a Madlock game used hat. You may be able to match the written Number 18 to another sample,
I have viewed the stamping process at the Louisville Slugger factory,and agree that a transposition of numbers as suggested by the H & B person you spoke with is a possibility.
Finally, if the professional model labeling is correct (as you indicate), I would probably be comfortable with the bat you describe. Although most collectors prefer bats that can be matched to factory records, the possible explanation from H & B is more solid that just an "I wish it was so" story. .
Good Luck.
Jim Reynolds wrote 2005-10-15 21:03:24
RE: Looking for bat ordering info/identification for Bill Madlock and Tom Underwood.
Mike,
Do you have an email address where I could send you some pics of the bat and you could tell me what you think?
Jim
Mike Specht wrote 2005-11-01 11:17:03
RE: Looking for bat ordering info/identification for Bill Madlock and Tom Underwood.
Hi Jim--
Sorry for the delay in responding. Sure, e-mail the pics to me at the following address and I'd be glad to share my opinion.
Jackitout7@aol.com
Mike