Opinion on possibly modified Carlos Lee bat

**Vintagedeputy** · 08-20-2007, 06:48 AM

Re: Opinion on possibly modified Carlos Lee bat

It is exactly the same bat..........good catch.

Now I'd love to hear from the seller how pine tar got applied where none existed before.

**eGameUsed** · 08-20-2007, 07:35 AM

Re: Opinion on possibly modified Carlos Lee bat

As many of you know I am the seller! I just answered two e-mails regarding this from the buyer of the auction and another collector. Let me start by saying I wish someone would have e-mailed me prior to the auction end, as I would have canceled the auction. The Lee bat was sold as received, and no pine tar wa added. After winning the auction of 6 bats just at the last minute, I paid, received the bats, and didn't look back. After doing some research I found that the Luke Scott bat is in similar situation with added tar in the lower handle area. All other bats appear fine! In fact, I took the following picture for a collector that was interested in a Lee bat the other day:

The top bat is the bat in question! I never even thought to question the bat! I have already talked with the winner of the auction and intend on not selling this bat to them, as that is not how I handle my sales. I also e-mailed the seller. After researching the seller some I can not convince myself as to how this happened, as they appear to be in the bulk lost package business. Again, it would make sense if all the bats were altered or not as pictured, but only 2 of the 6 bats are different with similar pine tar. I am awaiting a response!

I have no need to alter one bat for any sort of gain. Obviously from the picture above I am not short on Lee bats. Again, I wish someone would have pointed this out to me prior to auction close, so I could have settled this earlier!

Thanks,

**Vintagedeputy** · 08-20-2007, 08:12 AM

Re: Opinion on possibly modified Carlos Lee bat

Chris,

Thank you for stepping up and being available for questions. If I'm reading this correctly, are you saying that the bat you received from the 6 bat lot had pine tar applied when it arrived, which was different from the picture in the original auction that you won?

Jim

**Gyro123** · 08-20-2007, 09:01 AM

Re: Opinion on possibly modified Carlos Lee bat

Would love to someday be in a financial position in which I could purchase bats and not even verify/comfirm that I received what I had purchased. Chris , you should thank your lucky stars to be in such a place. At least the mix up was caught and the situation resolved. Great investigative work.

**33bird** · 08-20-2007, 09:13 AM

Re: Opinion on possibly modified Carlos Lee bat

So, the guy that you won the bats from, altered the Lee bat before he sent it to you? If that's what you're saying that doesn't make sense to me. Why would he go to that trouble? Please advise.
Greg

**eGameUsed** · 08-20-2007, 09:19 AM

Re: Opinion on possibly modified Carlos Lee bat

Jim,

That is correct! The bat I had listed on eBay is as recived. In fact, the original wrapping it was in was a newspaper stock wrapping and it was stuck to the bat as I recall. The Luke Scott bat was in similar situation with the pine tar lower on the handle. Just a couple of more notes.

First, I sent the original seller a message through eBay this morning in addition to the e-mail I sent from the paypal.com e-mail address. I suspect the paypal.com address might not be checked as it is specific for payments.

Second, I have received multiple e-mails this morning presumably from forum members asking me how I could have done this and how they never plan on buying from me again. Again, no one brought this to my attention until the close of the auction. I am at fault for not inspecting the bat in comparison to the original listing.

Third, I came on the forum immediately this morning to post a note as I plan to be open about this situation. I also plan to post a note on my website in regards to this situation as I do not want some of my other customers to think I am trying to avoid this issue or decieve people. I have nothing to hide. Clearly from the picture above I am not going to try and pull a fast one. My reputation is more important to me than making $100. When I came on here this morning to post, I noticed that Chris Josefy already posted links to the auction. Again, I was never confronted with this prior to the auction close. Not questioning the intent of Chris Josefy to post or calling into question forum rules about asking sellers questions and giving appropriate time to respond, but I want people to to know they can ask questions and could have helped me a ton.

Finally, I do NOT intend to sell this bat or let is make it to the hobby. I was comfortable paying the $93 for the bat as pictured. Once received it went in to the Carlos Lee bat box with 9 other Lee Rawlings 2007 bats at the time. When choosing one to sell, I chose the uncracked one as my experience shows those tend to do better on eBay when trying to generate some business.

This forum is intended to help buyers make better decisions! I think it can also be a resource to sellers. I admit, I need help at times. In the future, if there is another situation like this, please e-mail me earlier so I can take the item off the market. In this case, this one slipped by me and I did not go through a full inspection of the bat. The buyer (Josh Garza) and myself have been in communication and the sale will not be completed. I offered him one of the other bats pictured above if he so desires, or we just nulify the sale. I plan to reconcil the issue, even if it means eating the $93 I paid for the bat. I handle hundreds of different Astros bats a year and don't want to loose any potential customer or cast a shadow of doubt because of this.

Thanks for reading!

**eGameUsed** · 08-20-2007, 09:25 AM

Re: Opinion on possibly modified Carlos Lee bat

Originally posted by Gyro123

Would love to someday be in a financial position in which I could purchase bats and not even verify/comfirm that I received what I had purchased. Chris , you should thank your lucky stars to be in such a place. At least the mix up was caught and the situation resolved. Great investigative work.

George,

My current inventory of Astros bats is at 1362 as of this weekend. My inventory cost on those bats is $161,898.90. This is one of 8 Carlos Lee 2007 bats I currently have, and 1 of 19 I have had since he came to the Astros. This is also not my fulltime job! I admit there was an oversight. I admit there are times when I do not fully look over an item when received because of the volume I handle. The only bat I paid close attention to was the Preston Wilson bat as I had intended on a quick move on that one since it was outside of my speciality.

Thanks,

Chris

**eGameUsed** · 08-20-2007, 09:27 AM

Re: Opinion on possibly modified Carlos Lee bat

Originally posted by 33bird

So, the guy that you won the bats from, altered the Lee bat before he sent it to you? If that's what you're saying that doesn't make sense to me. Why would he go to that trouble? Please advise.
Greg

Greg,

I am waiting a response from the seller. I will post as soon as I receive. It does not make sense to me either. Same hold for the Luke Scott bat. I will be happy to post pictures of the Scott bat to show what I am talking about. Does it make sense that I would try to profit $150 on a bat when I handle $80,000 to $100,000 in sales per year?

Thanks,

**BaseballGM** · 08-20-2007, 09:30 AM

Re: Opinion on possibly modified Carlos Lee bat

Last time I posted on a very similar situation regarding "stars added", I was suspended by the moderator. I may be this time. All I have to say is fool me once.....

**kingjammy24** · 08-20-2007, 03:53 PM

Re: Opinion on possibly modified Carlos Lee bat

there are some incongruities here that are almost incomprehensible.

namely the idea that cargolargo, (a company that focuses on buying lost cargo shipments, unclaimed freight, manufacturer and distributor overstocks, and close-out merchandise had some pinetar lying around and decided to alter a bat to increase its value after they had already sold it. clearly they couldn't reap more money from the alteration, so i'm at a complete loss to understand any possible motive they may have had. it's also astonishing that cargolargo happened to apply the pinetar commensurate with Lee's use characteristics. someone at cargolargo really knows their Lee bats apparently!

chris, i believe you may have forgotten one more possible suspect in this caper: the mailman. your local mail carrier may also be a carlos lee bat expert who took it upon himself to open the package, apply "perfect Lee use characteristics" and then deliver the package. when you see him next time, be sure to ask him if he was the one. you may be sitting on the tip of a giant USPS bat-altering operation here.

the unfortunate part about this is that this seems to be the second time you've found yourself in a bizarre, inexplicable pinetar incident. the first time being here: http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_f...ead.php?t=1447

first time around, pujols added stars, then he didn't. you didn't know if the bat was ever cracked, then you remember repairing it yourself. you're meticulous enough to know the cost of your inventory down to the penny, yet you aren't sure how your bats keep undergoing these mysterious transformations. anyway, i guess it's a good thing cargolargo happened to know lee's use characteristics. had they applied it in an inconsistent way, that would've been a real mess! it's a good thing they applied it in a way that would add value to your bat. the fact that we know that between cargolargo, your mailman, and you, you're the one who has definitely has pinetar lying around is likely irrelevant to this whole thing. the other unfortunate part about this is that now whenever you offer one of your great biggio bats, dripping in pinetar, people are naturally going to wonder how the pinetar really got there.

anyway, i'm confused by your explanation that neither of these things cannot be tied to you because you are financially well-off. that is, i fail to see the connection between being financially well-off and cutting corners to make even more money. since when has there ever been an amount of money that was enough? if there is indeed such an amount, i doubt it's $200k/yr. after seeing athletes who each make well over $15 million/year spend their time hawking $300 items, i don't believe making $200k/yr is an amount that would cause an individual to lose their desire for more money. if it is, then someone should've told jeff skilling. poor guy was making millions but oddly enough was willing to cut corners to make even more. or that nutty martha stewart, worth over $600 million, putting a stop-loss order in to save $40k. it's crazy how money hungry some people can be.

at the end of the day, i usually find the most plausable explanations are also the most likely. that's why i believe it was the mailman. the USPS should be ashamed.

rudy.

**kingjammy24** · 08-20-2007, 04:04 PM

Re: Opinion on possibly modified Carlos Lee bat

just wanted to comment on the general notion of how a little becomes a lot without any reference whatsoever to this particular situation.

$100 may not seem like a lot. however, assuming one could obtain $100 more for a bat with "heavy use and perfect characteristics" than for one with light use, then $100 x 1400 bats = $140,000 extra. all of a sudden a little gravy just turned into a flood.

rudy.

**eGameUsed** · 08-20-2007, 04:47 PM

Re: Opinion on possibly modified Carlos Lee bat

Rudy,

Thanks for your insight and wit! It contributes tremendously to the game used hobby. I should have avoided this issue, in fact I think I will just cease caring at why the items were altered and sell them to unsuspecting buyers. I see why others quicky leave this forum. I make an attempt to understand this and get persecuted.

Thanks,

**eGameUsed** · 08-20-2007, 04:55 PM

Re: Opinion on possibly modified Carlos Lee bat

Eric/Chris/Whoever,

Can you please explain to me why posts are allowed that do not add to the topic of the thread? Also, how did the original post stay unedited since I was not e-mailed this issue before the close of the auction? Does that violate forum policy? According to Rule #16 and 17:

16. In instances where a forum member is identifying an item in the hobby they believe to have issues, it is expected that the poster clearly state their findings in the form of an opinion and provide adequate rationale for why they believe there is an issue. When possible, it is expected that the poster questioning an item will attempt to contact the seller of the item and allow at least 24 hours for the seller to reply before posting. This will prevent postings that may be generated based on misunderstandings of an item.

17. It is expected that all posts are to be created with a sincere attempt to benefit the hobby. Any posts which the Administrator deems as a personal attack or an attempt to unnecessarily discredit others will be subject to the administrative rules of the forum.

Also, BaseballGM and Rudy reference past thread topics that are not relative to the current topic. Does that violate forum policy? According to Rule #7 and 12:

7. No Trolling or Baiting. You will not post any topic that disrupts the peace and harmony of this forum. Please do not create meaningless threads with the sole purpose of starting a dispute. This includes messages in profiles and signatures.

12. No Topic Changing. Please do not derail threads because you do not agree with their content. If you do not like what you read, find or start a different thread.

Thanks,

**YankeeChowda** · 08-20-2007, 04:59 PM

Re: Opinion on possibly modified Carlos Lee bat

as brought to my attention about the pujols bat too..ha.. I can see maybe minor mistakes, if you can call any dubbing of bats minor. But this hobby doesnt need fake people out there that are tryin to make an extra buck by screwing the collector.

If you want to lie about it, how bout you go all the way with it.. Maybe list a new bat as followed.
Barry Bonds 890th HR bat. Yes, it wont happen, but if he was to hit 890 hrs this would be the bat he would hit it with... Included with the bat is the ball,(that he would have hit into mcovey cove), this is also autographed in barrys blood so you can have it really dna tested. Bat shows great use(future use) and comes with a COA brought to you by God.. Who can question that?? IF you Buy-it-Now i will also include 3 syringes from balco, which were used by Barry, Mac, and Sammy.

With love,
Toilet Duck

Opinion on possibly modified Carlos Lee bat

Opinion on possibly modified Carlos Lee bat

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