Players as authenticators...

[RobSteinmetz]

I'm interested in hearing other people's opinions on current and retired players level of expertise on their own game used equipment. This has come up in the Ripken glove thread and in several other threads, and I think it deserves a thread of it's own. What is your comfort level with regard to a players ability to authenticate/identify their own game used equipment?

Thanks in advance for your input...

[reed1216]

Overall, I think a player's opinion is the best form of authentication available. However, that depends on the player. For example, I wouldn't trust an ARod item that was sold as authentic, based only on a piece of paper that has a pre-printed statement of authenticity that he has signed. I think there have been several examples of questionable items with such LOAs. As far as ARod is concerned, I would only look at items from MeiGray (Rangers) and maybe Steiner for Yankee items, unless there is a conclusive photomatch.

Overall, I really think it varies from player to player and the more information we have at our disposal, the better off we are in making smart purchasing decisions.

[hblakewolf]

As a HUGE Von Hayes collector, I had a chance to take the field in 1991 before the Angels played the Mariners in Seattle, and meet Von in person (called in a favor of a friend who works in the front office for the M's-the only time I ever asked to meet a player during my 7 years living in Seattle).

After B.P., I asked Von to autograph several items, including game worn Phillies hats, bats, and my prized game worn fielding glove. The glove ws obtained after the 1986 season directly from a MLB employeee who secured it during the season when the Phillies visited San Francisco. When I asked Von to sign it, he became extremely curious as to how I obtained it. I told him it was purchased at the Phillies first ALS auction in 1986. He said there was no way it was from that auction, as he remembered using this specific glove in 1982 with the Indians! I asked if it was possible if he used it in 1982, and then later with the Phillies. He said not a chance-it was from is second season with Cleveland, and was only used there-not Philly.

I again asked him to sign it, and he then became extremely annoyed, put it on his hand, and it appeared he was not going to remove it. He must have asked me 6 times, "Where did you get this"?????? After another request for him to sign it, he did so on the thumb and gave it back to me. Needless to say, I had a bad feeling he was going to keep it.

On the other hand, I've shown players their bats, and they remember ordering the specific model, or note that the # written on the knob is indeed their handwriting or identification.

In summary, some players know their equipment well, others, not a clue.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[ahuff]

The main players I collect are Laettner, Jeff Kunkel, and Steve Trout. I have been blessed to have some interaction with each.

Kunkel is an awesome authenticator and collects his own game worn items.

Trout is such a care-free spirit, and is such a joy to be around. However, he is not burdened by such issues as game worn items. I've asked him about two items, and he had no clue. He doesn't even remember what sizes he wore. Honestly, there is something very refreshing about someone like that.

Laettner has given one style of every jersey to his mother. She doesn't sell them, and would not part with them. However, she is a great authenticator. She has bailed me out of a bad purchase, in the past.

[BaseballGM]

I think Howard has it right......"In summary, some players know their equipment well, others, not a clue."

[ironmanfan]

I can say that in sharing more than one piece of game used equipment with Cal, he is definitely one that has a clue...

[kingjammy24]

i think there are several different variables that come into play in each situation. to this end, i think each situation is unique and can't be generalized either way.

it depends on the trustworthiness of the player, the specific item, how long it's been since last used/seen. some players like ripken or nolan ryan strike me as trustworthy. on the other hand i'd place little trust in bonds or ortiz.

as well, i think players pay more attention to some items than others. i imagine bats and gloves probably get the most attention given that they're the items that actually "perform" and are most customized by the players themselves. i think it also depends on the specific player. boggs or gwynn, for example, likely had closer relationships with their bats than most pitchers.

as well, i think you've got to consider how much time has passed in between. ripken may remember a glove 10 yrs later, for example, but it wouldn't surprise me if today keith hernandez couldn't remember what size jersey he wore in 1976. we've all seen players make mistakes about their gear and the fallout that occurs when people take a player's word as gospel. off the top of my head i can remember mantle, dimaggio and carew all mis-identifying the years that they used certain gloves. the errors cost collectors large sums of money because apparently noone thought the players could possibly be mistaken.

on the other hand, i think the intimate knowledge of some players can reveal details that no authentication can uncover. confirming specs via an authentication can only go so far. ultimately, with any authentication, there's still always going to be a leap of faith required. certain facts revealed by a player, on the other hand, can potentially remove that leap of faith.

i think players and collectors pay attention to different details. in dating a jersey, for example, most collectors would look at the particular style of manufacturer's tag. i doubt many players notice subtle changes in the manufacturer's tag and remember the exact year the changes occurred. instead, a player may date the jersey based on an subtle marker like a missing button. barring any solid markers, it wouldn't surprise me to see a collector be able to date a jersey more accurately than a player in many cases. due to the differences in what each party examines and remembers, i think sometimes players are able to offer more insight and other times it's collectors.

in the same way that i'd never accept an authentication as gospel, i wouldn't automatically accept a player's opinion as gospel. i think items ought to be authenticated from all angles because anyone can be mistaken. i think every case has to be judged on all of the variables involved.

rudy.

[Swoboda4]

Rob,
I think overall,it's rare that a player cares to the level that we do,in regard to game used items. An example is when a real jersey from the locker is handed over as game used by the player to a charity or to a person the player feels is owed a favor,and yes,its real game issued but he didn't get to wear it. Most players view us as Trekies. People who have carried their love of the sport to a photomatching obsessed level:"Hi,Mr. Cepeda,did you wear a size 42 jerseys in 1968?"- "Yo no se'".
Rudy,once Hayes started getting curious that's your athentication right there. I would have kept Von as far from that glove as possible once you saw that. Because at that point you went from a fan who deserved a favor from a mutual friend to a collector who's mutual friend will be spoken to. By the way,I believe Ball Park Heroes,has had a Von Hayes jersey they been selling for a year or so in the $125 range.
Back to the point,the biggest baseball idol,Mantle,would have got the biggest kick out of fooling us if it resulted in a hearty laugh,"Hey Slick,then he gave me $10,000 after I said those were the "size 30" pants I wore from 1961."
http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/72199277.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193875DCB1DD8387ABB500615AFC71426B7

[Canseco44]

I think when the player played has a lot to do with it also. The shear number of game used items some players are marketing today would almost make it impossible to keep up with certain things. Older players did not go through as many things, so they may remember more of their stuff. When you wear two jerseys for one season instead of 25 in one season, it is probably a little easier to remember them.

Todd

[3arod13]

Overall, I think a player's opinion is the best form of authentication available. However, that depends on the player. For example, I wouldn't trust an ARod item that was sold as authentic, based only on a piece of paper that has a pre-printed statement of authenticity that he has signed. I think there have been several examples of questionable items with such LOAs. As far as ARod is concerned, I would only look at items from MeiGray (Rangers) and maybe Steiner for Yankee items, unless there is a conclusive photomatch.

Overall, I really think it varies from player to player and the more information we have at our disposal, the better off we are in making smart purchasing decisions.

With that said, would you feel comfortable with this bat? Arod used and signed this bat in 1996 (as you can tell by the signature). I have a letters from Rawlings (verifying model, number made, etc.), Arod, PSA, SCD, documented in the Baseball Almanac, and a copy of the Canadian Sports Page the following day verifying Arod hit HR #15 off of Eric Hanson. I only wish I had a picture or video also.

I agree with you 100%. Today, I hesitate in buying another Arod bat from the past few years. In addition, I see many players signing older game used items today (saw a so called Bonds Rookie Bat that he signed during the Arod/Bonds signing in NY). How can he really recall if that was his game used rookie bat? His model maybe, but how can he recall if he used it back then. I believe today, many players will signed whatever because they get paid to do so. I also believe today, you have to question if the bat is really a game used bat the player wanted to use, or just used it for the sole purpose of getting a little pinetar and ball marks on it to then turn the bat over to be sold.

Today, I think too much "so called" game used stuff is being sold. Too much of it is questionable.

Just my thoughts! Regards, Tony

Regards, Tony