ASI Beltran jersey

[kingjammy24]

in may 2005, historic auctions sold a carlos beltran jersey for $302.50

here is the jersey:

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:bg4-vIemXyUJ:www.historicauctions.com/search/showphotos/auctionid/33425/+site:www.historicauctions.com+beltran&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

currently ASI is selling a carlos beltran jersey on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180158972634

the description says "This size 46 Beltran jersey was obtained directly through Carlos himself".

1) it's the same jersey. the folds on the back numbers are identical. therefore, the jersey can not have been obtained directly through Carlos himself. at best, it was obtained directly through whoever won the Historic auction.

2) i have seen many jerseys "won" in historic's auction that later ended up being sold on ebay by either historic or asi. this strikes me as very odd. does historic really have so many non-paying bidders and so many consigners who later agree to have their jerseys sold on ebay?

3) it suffers from the same incorrect nob arch shared by another beltran jersey that ASI offered earlier. see: http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=8338
both jerseys have the same incorrect nob arch. photos of beltran from 2005 show a far less pronounced arch than seen on the ASI/Historic jerseys.

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/6862/beltranjt2.jpg

rudy.

[jdr3]

Rudy,

Another curious ASI jersey was this Jose Guillen jersey I won that had the interior 0062 code tag cut out. I seriously doubt a small tag on the side of a jersey is a major disomfort. Mike O'Keeffe has no shortage of game used companies to investigate these days.

-Jim

[mvandor]

ASI is also ebaying a supposed Tony Romo blue away game jersey as below: http://cgi.ebay.com/TONY-ROMO-GAME-USED-JERSEY-COWBOYS-ASI_W0QQitemZ180159393350QQihZ008QQcategoryZ86829Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

However, as best I can determine the Boys only wore blue in the Redskins game in 2006. See below:

http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/72608523.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=C65D3B0C2853D7E65BEF2AB0C8D8D0FA

Compare the waist and sleeves, waist in the Getty pic appears cutoff and elastic added, sleeves appear open. The opposite of the ASI jersey.

This couldn't be the same ASI being talked about in the suspended thread? Or could it?

Where there's smoke, there's fire?

[lund6771]

I wonder if Game Exclusives had this one...even if they didn't, how could it show evidence of multiple washings when the jersey was worn only once..but I guess it was sourced from within he cowboys so now I feel more comfortable, so I may bid $3.00 on his pile of garbage

[bigjimsguitars]

In affirmation as to what a Real Beltran Jersey should look like and sell for is this:

http://www.californiasportsinv.com/page.php?pid=43&sportid=1

Again, it shows the correct arch in the name and which is completely different than what the ASI Jersey has.

Is it possible that ASI is getting lesser name players jerseys for the proper tagging and then recreating them as star player jerseys?

[TNTtoys]

Is it possible that ASI is getting lesser name players jerseys for the proper tagging and then recreating them as star player jerseys?

I don't know exactly how these jerseys with the overpronounced arches are coming into circulation, but I can only speculate that they are originally team issued / game issued blanks that contain after-market customizations. To have taken the jersey of a "lesser name player" would imply that the letters and numbers will have had to be stripped off. There would be evidence of such a "repair."

[bigjimsguitars]

Is it possible that ASI is getting lesser name players jerseys for the proper tagging and then recreating them as star player jerseys?

I don't know exactly how these jerseys with the overpronounced arches are coming into circulation, but I can only speculate that they are originally team issued / game issued blanks that contain after-market customizations. To have taken the jersey of a "lesser name player" would imply that the letters and numbers will have had to be stripped off. There would be evidence of such a "repair."

Yes, that certainly is a good possibility as well. However, if a set of numbers or letters hasn't been on too long it will not necessarily leave tell, tale shadowing and a couple of washes would probably end any traces of prior stitching.

Common sense would dictate that before one puts out copious quanities of coin for a Gane Used Jersey that he or she minimally does some due dilligence and compares pictures of the actual player or similar from the same team and year. In the internet age, that shouldn't take too long to do....

It saddens me that the reason I left collecting Game Used Memorabilia and Autographs was the bad press it was getting for all of the fakes and forgeries. Over 10 years later and I'm still seeing this kind of crap going on.

It's only going to get worse as the values of this stuff is getting higher.

Yes we live in a country where one is presumed innocent unless proven guilty, but we all know that reputation reins paramount.

The best weapon one can have is knowledge of what is and what isn't and I think it's great that this forum exists as it sure feels like that real knowledge is being passed on here!

[kingjammy24]

the cowboys wore this style of jersey 3 times in 2006:

sept 10 vs jacksonville
october 8 vs eagles
nov 5 vs redskins

i can't find any pics of romo on october 8. here are pics of romo on sept 10 and nov 5. i can see 3 issues with the ASI romo jersey:

1) pics of romo show open sleeves. asi jersey has elasticized sleeves
2) pics of romo show elasticized waist. asi jersey has open waist
3) "9" font seems incorrect.

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/6867/cowboysov6.jpg

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

for some reason, my previous beltran image isn't showing up. here it is again. the beltran steiner jersey shows how the nob arch should look.

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/7973/beltrantf4.jpg

rudy.

[mvandor]

the cowboys wore this style of jersey 3 times in 2006:

sept 10 vs jacksonville
october 8 vs eagles
nov 5 vs redskins

i can't find any pics of romo on october 8. here are pics of romo on sept 10 and nov 5. i can see 3 issues with the ASI romo jersey:

1) pics of romo show open sleeves. asi jersey has elasticized sleeves
2) pics of romo show elasticized waist. asi jersey has open waist
3) "9" font seems incorrect.

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/6867/cowboysov6.jpg

rudy.
Better research than I did, but same results. Another bogus ASI item easily debunked in 60 second with minimal effort.

[kingjammy24]

after selling in historic's last auction for $302.50, it somehow wound up being sold again by ASI on ebay ( http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180158972634 ). at that time, ASI sold it for $515.50.

it's now being sold by ASI yet again on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180167042319

rudy.

[jrhrlh]

It's not even a new auction listing. It still has the revise note from Sept.13th that they listed the wrong jersey year. You would think that if the high bidder did not pay that they would possibly offer it to the next highest bidder.

[kingjammy24]

On one hand, it's almost unbelievable how this jersey was "sold" by Historic, then wound up in the hands of Historic's founder, Brad Wells (ASI), to be sold on ebay. Brad/ASI then "sold" it on ebay and after it sold, Brad Wells/ASI offered it yet again.

Perhaps Historic/ASI just has awful luck when it comes to non-paying bidders. Perhaps this jersey was returned a number of times. Another part of me is wondering if, even though the photos always depict the same jersey, it's not the same jersey. That is, perhaps ASI/Historic have a number of these beltrans and simply use 1 photo for their ads?

I've just never seen an auction house "sell" so many jerseys that later wind up being sold again by that same auction house on ebay.

rudy.

[5kRunner]

This is what I hate about the whole "private bidder" thing. It would be nice if you could see any feedback that was left for the "original" jersey. Maybe the bidder didn't pay. Maybe the seller wasn't happy with the price and is holding out for more, so they didn't actually sell it. I agree, it looks really fishy.

[5kRunner]

After looking at ASI's current auctions, I found this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/REGGIE-WAYNE-GAME-USED-GLOVES-COLTS-ASI_W0QQitemZ180167239828QQihZ008QQcategoryZ50119Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Which looks really similar to this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/REGGIE-WAYNE-GAME-USED-GLOVES-COLTS-ASI_W0QQitemZ180162051529QQihZ008QQcategoryZ50119Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I won't even get into the whole "Why would a Colts player use red gloves" thing. But, maybe they do use the same picture for similar auctions. Or maybe no ones pays when they win.

[kingjammy24]

the cowboys wore this style of jersey 3 times in 2006:

sept 10 vs jacksonville
october 8 vs eagles
nov 5 vs redskins

i can't find any pics of romo on october 8. here are pics of romo on sept 10 and nov 5. i can see 3 issues with the ASI romo jersey:

1) pics of romo show open sleeves. asi jersey has elasticized sleeves
2) pics of romo show elasticized waist. asi jersey has open waist
3) "9" font seems incorrect.

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/6867/cowboysov6.jpg

rudy.

is this the same jersey as referenced above?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200181049392

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

'round and 'round it goes, like a hot potato.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200182746382

rudy.

[lund6771]

"Romo is the hottest rising quarterback in the NFL right now, and this is a great chance to get a Cowboys fan a Christmas present they will never forget."

Once the unlucky buyer of this P.O.S finds this thread I'm SURE he'll never forget