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kj33706
09-19-2007, 03:54 PM
what happened i find all kinds of stuff i get off of it and its not on the fourm am i missing something please answer someone

Yankwood
09-19-2007, 03:57 PM
I think it's been removed 'til the GUU Auction is over. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

5kRunner
09-19-2007, 03:59 PM
You are correct.

Vintagedeputy
09-19-2007, 04:45 PM
I think this is like the 3rd thread that has covered this topic already.

flaco1801
09-19-2007, 05:07 PM
cant have a for sale thread somebody thinks it will take revenue from the game used auction........... money has to be made u think this is free?

ChrisCavalier
09-19-2007, 05:08 PM
what happened i find all kinds of stuff i get off of it and its not on the fourm am i missing something please answer someone
Sorry for the confusion. We made postings in both the 'Announcements' folder (it is still there as the most recent posting in that folder) and the 'Items For Sale' folder (as a sticky) back on September 3rd so everyone would know what was happening. For those that haven't seen it, here is the announcement:

"Hello Everyone,

We are making this post to let everyone know that we will be temporarily closing the "Items For Sale" folder beginning September 15, 2007 and it will remain closed until the consignment auction ends on October 25th. Obviously, it would be unfair to our consignors to leave a competing section of the site open while the auction is in progress.

After the consignment auction ends, we will be launching an enhanced platform where people can list items for sale on the GUU site. We will explain more about the upgraded platform in the near future. As for now, we will simply say the new platform will be much more beneficial to collectors and especially potential buyers looking for legitimate merchandise.

We look forward to providing a vast array of great memorabilia in the upcoming GUU auction starting at the end of this month as well as launching the new platform for buyers and sellers once the consignment auction has ended.

Sincerely,
Chris Cavalier"

33bird
09-19-2007, 07:05 PM
I'm still not sure why we have to remove the for sale section for over a month? There's nothing in the auction I'm interested in so why can't I buy some things from others that aren't participating in the GUU auctions? I really don't think buying and selling a few things on this site-that we paid a fee for-would upset the auctions. What are we paranoid about?
Greg

flaco1801
09-19-2007, 07:25 PM
i think because the game used owners wanna maximize their cut of the auction money ???????????

33bird
09-19-2007, 07:34 PM
Yea, could be. But, I'm like many other collectors, and just collect certain players: Pete Rose, Larry Bird, Jeff Kent, Johnny Bench. It's not a huge auction, none of my boys are represented, and so I'm gonna sit on my thumbs for over a month.
G.W

CollectGU
09-19-2007, 07:56 PM
I know the forum is looking out for consignors, but it seems it's at the expense of those paying forum members who don't want to use the auction and would rather list in the for sale section.

Dave

sportscentury
09-19-2007, 09:35 PM
Hi, Chris -

Do you really stand to lose that much money if the *For Sale* section stays active? We all knew that GUF would change when it was bought out by GUU, but this seems a bit over the top. It's your business, and I respect your prerogative to do as you please, but thought I'd offer my two cents.

Reid

both-teams-played-hard
09-19-2007, 09:48 PM
Since this is GUU's very first ever auction, I think its fair to close the "For Sale" section. The owners may just want to test the waters. Also, this is a "selling point" to attract potential consignors.
With that said, I have never sold to any forum members outside of eBay.

bat_master
09-19-2007, 10:33 PM
I know the forum is looking out for consignors, but it seems it's at the expense of those paying forum members who don't want to use the auction and would rather list in the for sale section.

Dave

I agree completely. In addition I've noticed a few other things that may need to be addressed or I'm thinking about dumping my subscription.

1. Experts corner - I understand that people have lives and are busy, but some updated material would be nice.

2. Bat records - Since the release of the Malta book it's pretty much worthless to have online access to it.

3. Price guide - Not exceptionally valid in many cases. The bats listed are all hall of famers and it's pretty obvious that the prices are somewhat outdated. In general I think it is almost impossible to have a price guide as bats regularly sell for well above and well below the listed values. I can't even say that I've accessed it to use only as a guide in the last month.

Aside from using the now missing for sale section, I'm not really sure what my $40 a year is getting me aside from posts about auction houses I already don't deal with.

I know I'm not the only person that feels this way. I've had discussions with multiple people this week alone that feel that the forum is going downhill quickly and I'm well inclined to agree.

I guess in general I don't feel that in this stage in my collecting this site is as beneficial as it once was. I feel that it has definitely gone downhill in the last 6 months.

ChrisCavalier
09-20-2007, 01:58 AM
Hello Everyone,

I think there seems to be a bit of confusion regarding the "For Sale" section of the forum and its relationship to the site’s memberships and forum usage. First of all, for those interested in using the forum, it is available for FREE in the 'Complimentary Membership' of the site. If someone is solely interested in using the forum they do NOT have to pay for it. It is FREE.

As for the overall site, while I know many people don't think about it whatsoever, there are costs to grow and maintain the site which provide great benefits for those using its services. As such, GUU needs to generate revenues to offset the costs of running the site. One way would be to focus on a subscription fee/advertising model to generate revenues and the other would be to do it through transaction facilitation. We have opted to focus on the latter for a number of reasons.

First of all, we had concerns about focusing on advertising revenue to support the site since we did not want to have to worry about the concerns of advertisers if they were paying to advertise on GUU. Said another way, we want the free flow of information on GUU to be unobstructed by potential complaints of advertisers (who would be most interested in our target audience) that might resent some of the information that is being shared on the forum. I trust people who understand this point will appreciate the fact that we chose not to compromise the site's content for the sake of generating advertising revenue. I can certainly elaborate on this more if needed. However, I believe a short reflection on the potential issues of what is stated above should be self-evident.

In addition, regarding our membership fees, contrary to a previous post, our fee is not $40/year. The $49.95 fee is for the first year only and it includes a copy of Vince Malta's book that retails for $39.95. For those doing the math, the fee incremental to the book is $10 for the first year. The renewal fee is $19.95 per year. Further, neither is required to use the forum. Once again, the use of the forum is FREE regardless or whether or not someone chooses to join or renew a membership. Individuals can assess the information on the subscription page to determine whether or not they think the paid benefits justify the nominal costs. If you don’t think they do then simply don’t pay them and continue using the free areas of the site.

On the other hand, we did feel that focusing on creating a new transaction model for the hobby would enable us to: a) generate the revenues needed to run the site, and b) create a system that would better meet the needs of the collecting community as a whole and is congruent with what the overall site stands for in terms of helping collectors make more informed decisions about items they are interested in purchasing. For years we have heard complaints about auction houses, eBay, etc. and we are rolling out a model that we believe will address the deficiencies of those models. For those wanting to know what we are doing in this area, here is a link to our “Auction Information” which explains it for you:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/lots_gallery/info.php (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/lots_gallery/info.php)

Notably, the ‘For Sale’ area of the site is not going away. It is being upgraded with a system that will protect collectors from the problems that exist in other channels. For example, when items are listed on this site with only titles and prices and the discussions take place offline, where do collectors benefit from the potential to ask questions about items and have the collective community share in an analysis of the item? Through both GUU Auctions and the coming system on the site, collectors will benefit from the collective knowledge of the site’s users to help them make informed decisions about the items they buy. That is the goal of our system and it will take place on the sale of all merchandise offered on GUU going forward.

Net, the use of the forum as per its stated objective of “a way to bring game used collectors together and help hobbyists educate each other” is FREE to everyone. The previous ability to offer merchandise for sale on the site was being offered as a courtesy to the site's users. The fact that people cannot sell there items on the site for free right now has no impact on the sharing of information or the ability for collectors to help educate each other. Further, in the future people will still be able to offer merchandise for sale on the site in a manner that will help collectors make informed decisions about the items being offered.

Sincerely,
Chris Cavalier

CollectGU
09-20-2007, 07:47 AM
Chris,

Will there be any cost involved when selling an item on the new for sale section?

Thanks,
Dave

JimCaravello
09-20-2007, 07:48 AM
I personally have sold thousands of dollars of merchandise through the For Section over the last two years and I know many others have sold quite a bit too. Folks - we have been doing this for "Free"! Where else on this planet do you have this type of capability with a targeted audience? You can probably count those venues on one hand and not get past the first couple of fingers.

I completely understand what Chris is saying in his previous post and I personally think a more sophisticated and enhanced venue on this site to post items for sale will be of great benefit to all who participate. I also think that pulling the For Sale section down as to not compete with the upcoming auction makes complete sense and is beneficial to both consignors and potential buyers.

Chris is ceating a top notch auction platform with the upcoming auction as well as a new For Sale section in the near future and I believe we should all embrace this and be patient and see how it all unfolds...

GUU has provided the hobby with a much needed resource that has a complimentary membership for Free which is unbelievable and an annual fee membership which is ridiculously low for the benefits you get. It amazes me that people will spend thousands of dollars on bats and then argue over $19.95 to have online access to bat charts and the other features associated with a membership to GUU? I can't tell you how many times a bat pops up during the day and I am at work and I have to access a record from my computer and can make a valued decision immediately......That's worth a lot more than $19.95.......

Lastly - let me say THANK YOU Chris Cavalier and GUU for allowing me to sell items for Free on this site for the past two years - I can't wait to bid on a few items in the upcoming auction - Jim

CollectGU
09-20-2007, 08:15 AM
I personally have sold thousands of dollars of merchandise through the For Section over the last two years and I know many others have sold quite a bit too. Folks - we have been doing this for "Free"! Where else on this planet do you have this type of capability with a targeted audience? You can probably count those venues on one hand and not get past the first couple of fingers.


Jim,

You act as if this isn't the norm on forums. The baseball card forum, hockey game worn forum, and the baseball glove forum I believe are all free to trade and sell items to their respective targeted audiences.

I agree with you that this forum being a good value just for the bat records alone.

Regards,
Dave

yankees159
09-20-2007, 08:57 AM
Personally, I would think a “thank you” would be in order from those who have already sold their merchandise here for free for years without having to pay to do it.

This website has changed the way auction houses do business and has saved many of us thousands of dollars by exposing the fraud that has run rampid in this industry.

I am going to assume that like most websites it was designed to generate revenue and have a positive cash flow. Why is this so hard to understand? Would any of the critics of this policy work for free?


Good Luck Chris, I think what you are doing is awesome. You can't please everybody, especially those who embrace a well fare state.


Todd

bat_master
09-20-2007, 09:06 AM
Personally, I would think a “thank you” would be in order from those who have already sold their merchandise here for free for years without having to pay to do it.

This website has changed the way auction houses do business and has saved many of us thousands of dollars by exposing the fraud that has run rampid in this industry.

I am going to assume that like most websites it was designed to generate revenue and have a positive cash flow. Why is this so hard to understand? Would any of the critics of this policy work for free?


Good Luck Chris, I think what you are doing is awesome. You can't please everybody, especially those who embrace a well fare state.


Todd

Todd,

At the bottom of the main page of the forum you will see the following in bold print: "This forum was originally created by Eric Stangel as a way to bring game used collectors together and help hobbyists educate each other."

As for the comment about the critics of this policy working for free I feel that for every auction item that was pulled because of comments that were made here the members that brought it to the surface were working for free....for whatever auction house was offering the item.

yankees159
09-20-2007, 10:26 AM
Hi Tim:

Your refered to this quote"

"At the bottom of the main page of the forum you will see the following in bold print: "This forum was originally created by Eric Stangel as a way to bring game used collectors together and help hobbyists educate each other."


Isn't this Forum bringing collectors together and educating them? It has helped me out. Do you come to this site to learn more about the industry and the fradulent items that exsist? Or is promotion of your website and selling the items ,the primary reason why you come to this website? If you don't enjoy the educational value of this website, why don't you stop visiting it?

Looks like your free ride is over and you might be upset by it. Just my opinion.

mwbosoxfan
09-20-2007, 10:53 AM
Chris,

For what it's worth, I thank you and applaud your efforts in providing the services you do through this web site. I don't post a great deal, but I read every single day. Obviously, I can't begin to explain the amount of knowledge I've gained through this site, as well as the opportunity to meet and develop some pretty good relationships with fellow members. It has enhanced my collecting experience to a degree that again would be hard to express. I, too, miss reading the daily postings of items "for sale", but find it a mere sacrifice if that's what it takes to develop a better auction platform and provide funding to keep the site going. Something tells me that you're not getting rich doing this. With all of the fraud that has been exposed, including some of the forgery operations under federal investigation and featured in the news, I would think we would welcome an auction platform in this community. I would bet anything listed in the GUU auction that has any suspicion of not being authentic and to the letter of its description would be questioned beyond belief. That's pretty reassuring in my book. Thanks and keep up the good work.

John

bat_master
09-20-2007, 02:49 PM
Hi Tim:

Your refered to this quote"

"At the bottom of the main page of the forum you will see the following in bold print: "This forum was originally created by Eric Stangel as a way to bring game used collectors together and help hobbyists educate each other."

Isn't this Forum bringing collectors together and educating them? It has helped me out. Do you come to this site to learn more about the industry and the fradulent items that exsist? Or is promotion of your website and selling the items ,the primary reason why you come to this website? If you don't enjoy the educational value of this website, why don't you stop visiting it?

Looks like your free ride is over and you might be upset by it. Just my opinion.


Your opinion is appreciated and this website is absolutely bringing collectors together.

However you seem to feel pretty strongly that this website was created to make money and you see no problem with that.

But which is it? Are they bringing collectors together or are they in it to make money? I'm not sure they can do both without having at least some of the group upset.

Obviously I'm not the only one concerned, so perhaps you should be asking some of the other members if they are worried about the "free ride being over".

Maybe I'm simply concerned about losing the for sale section as I find that the most useful information on the entire forum. This is both for buying and selling as well as getting a good feel for what members look for based on the responses from the items that others have listed for sale.

I've yet to use an auction house becuase I feel better about providing personalized service to people. Because of this I guess I don't feel like I'm losing the "for sale" section and gaining an auction. I just feel like I'm losing the sale section.

Yankwood
09-20-2007, 06:28 PM
I enjoy this site as to me it is a hobby. In the process it has also brought a few bucks my way. I have spent WAAAAAY more than I have taken in. Therefore I may be looking at this far differently than some or maybe most of you. I pursue this hobby resigned to the fact that it is a money losing propostion. This doesn't bother me. It also doesn't bother me that this site may make money. Who cares? If I can enjoy myself reading, learning and collecting and someone is profiting., great. I'm having fun because that's what it's about for me. I guess we all look at this differently. If discontinuing the "for sale" thread for a while is what you see fit, I'll survive. I'll relax and bide my time until it's back.

JimCaravello
09-20-2007, 06:47 PM
Tim - I for one, am really disappointed in your recent posts in this thread.

I have been in this hobby for over 20 years and Chris Cavalier has given more to the hobby than any one individual person has EVER given to this hobby that I know of. Your comments about the site going the wrong way in the last six months are actually mind boggling to me.

I am not a paid employee of GUU and have never received a dime from this website - but yet, when you have e-mailed me about a question - I have always answered - for free and timely I might add. I answer every question - from every member and from people I don't even know or will ever probably meet. Why? Because I love the hobby and I want to help people as much as I can so they don't make mistakes in collecting game used material.

Just a few year ago this site didn't exist. Since then, Chris has provided a website that is mainly free - that has advanced the hobby in so many ways, it would take pages of written words to acknowledge everything that he has done for the hobby with this one website.

For over two years, people have been able to sell for Free on this website - with Chris not asking for a dime. I participate in other Forums ( guitar forums ) where if you sell something, the owners of the site ask for a contribution and I would say about 90% of the people who sell on that site actually give a portion of their sale proceeds to the site, to help maintain it. Chris hasn't asked for anything - from anyone who has used this site. You have the free will to join, or not join - or participate, or not participate.

All of a sudden, the For Sale section is removed from this site and you and other members start throwing stones??

All I have to say is that I am astonished that people who have benefited greatly from this site - who have sold on this site for no cost - are the first to throw stones, when you don't even know what the new For Sale section will look like and can't even comprehend the amount of money and time that Chris Cavalier has spent in the past - and will be spending in the future to enhance that aspect of this website. You sit on the sidelines and reap in the benefits of this site - without fully comprehending the operational time and money that has gone into this site without asking anything from you.

I have said enough - I think you get my point - Jim Caravello

Vintagedeputy
09-20-2007, 06:54 PM
Tim - I for one, am really disappointed in your recent posts in this thread.

I have been in this hobby for over 20 years and Chris Cavalier has given more to the hobby than any one individual person has EVER given to this hobby that I know of. Your comments about the site going the wrong way in the last six months are actually mind boggling to me.

I am not a paid employee of GUU and have never received a dime from this website - but yet, when you have e-mailed me about a question - I have always answered - for free and timely I might add. I answer every question - from every member and from people I don't even know or will ever probably meet. Why? Because I love the hobby and I want to help people as much as I can so they don't make mistakes in collecting game used material.

Just a few year ago this site didn't exist. Since then, Chris has provided a website that is mainly free - that has advanced the hobby in so many ways, it would take pages of written words to acknowledge everything that he has done for the hobby with this one website.

For over two years, people have been able to sell for Free on this website - with Chris not asking for a dime. I participate in other Forums ( guitar forums ) where if you sell something, the owners of the site ask for a contribution and I would say about 90% of the people who sell on that site actually give a portion of their sale proceeds to the site, to help maintain it. Chris hasn't asked for anything - from anyone who has used this site. You have the free will to join, or not join - or participate, or not participate.

All of a sudden, the For Sale section is removed from this site and you and other members start throwing stones??

All I have to say is that I am astonished that people who have benefited greatly from this site - who have sold on this site for no cost - are the first to throw stones, when you don't even know what the new For Sale section will look like and can't even comprehend the amount of money and time that Chris Cavalier has spent in the past - and will be spending in the future to enhance that aspect of this website. You sit on the sidelines and reap in the benefits of this site - without fully comprehending the operational time and money that has gone into this site without asking anything from you.

I have said enough - I think you get my point - Jim Caravello


Very well said Jim

bat_master
09-20-2007, 07:18 PM
Jim C,

Out of all of the people in the hobby that I have gotten to know through sharing emails about bats, you are easily one of the 5 people that I respect the most.

Yes, you have responded very promptly to any emails that I've sent. I have always thanked you profusely and believe I have made it clear that if I can be of any assistance to you to just let me know.

I'm not saying that there has been no benefit to being a member of this site and I'm not saying that I haven't ever learned anything.

However...

If I'm a member of this site and read 5 threads a day about photomatching, another 3 threads about a Robinson Cano glove, and 4 more about Lou Lampson & American Memorabilia I personally don't benefit from any of that as a paying customer.

There used to be a ton of great discussions. I've simply noticed that the overall content of the posts have become (IN MY OPINION) less informative. Again, this is my opinion.

Maybe I feel this way because I choose only to post about topics that I either a) Have a strong opinion about; or b) Feel very knowledgeable about. There are several members that will post on absolutely every topic whether they have anything to add to it or not.

Maybe the problem is that I shouldn't be a paying customer. I should just go with the regular free access. I'd do that if the "My Account" portion wasn't a blank white page.

If any member here has followed any of my posts over the last two years I would think that they would notice that I don't post just for the sake of posting. In every post I type I try to make sure that there is a point to it and that hopefully someone gets something out of it.

In closing, I'd like to say that I absolutely respect Jim Caravello as a great guy in the hobby who has done a lot for this site and a lot for me personally. Jim's blogs in the experts corner are second to none and that is probably because I benefitted from that knowledge personally.

However, I suddenly feel like a lot of the people that left: "I had an opinion. I shared it. I was attacked for it."


Very respectfully,
Tim Byington

CollectGU
09-20-2007, 07:23 PM
Jim,

You act as though the owner(s) of this site are doing us all a favor out of the goodness of their heart. Come on now. This site is twofold - to help collectors AND to use it as a launching pad for an auction company that will eventually make the owner(s) (if all goes right) a decent amount of money. There is nothing wrong with that, but that is certainly the reality here. I'm curious. Have you consigned any items into the auction?

Regards,
Dave

Spiezio23
09-20-2007, 07:31 PM
To me, it was the way the whole thing was done. I also realize that I have not paid for a membership here so I really have no leg to stand on as it's a free site/service for me. To remove the For sale section and say it was for the upcoming autcion.. I really don't care for. I'm a bargain collector, the most I've ever paid for any single item I believe is a mere $1000. That is chump change to many of you who I know spend thousands upon thousands for one item. Auction houses and online auctions such as these do not provide the little guys with items of interest. I think there is maybe 1 or 2 items I had even the slightest interest in from the upcoming auction but aside from that, it's of no value to me that I can see right now.

I mean will there ever be an auction aside from eBay where I can find bats under $75. How many online auctions will even bother putting up a pair of $30 pants.. not many, so in the end closing the for sale section to the little buyers like me hurts.

Tell me you're closing the For Sale section so you can implement a new system and test it out.. I have no issues with. It makes sense to me, you want to make the system better all of its users.

Again.. I know I'm not the majority of users on this site and even if I had consigned some stuff for the upcoming auction, (yes even bargain buying I have some nice consignment worthy items) closing it for mostly that reason alone, I wouldn't agree with. It's not even a guaranteed extra profit for those consigners, it's just a slight possibility that it could be.


Just my .01:cool:

-Jeremy Morgan

yankees159
09-20-2007, 08:13 PM
"Maybe I feel this way because I choose only to post about topics that I either a) Have a strong opinion about; or b) Feel very knowledgeable about. There are several members that will post on absolutely every topic whether they have anything to add to it or not.

Maybe the problem is that I shouldn't be a paying customer. I should just go with the regular free access. I'd do that if the "My Account" portion wasn't a blank white page."


Tim I don't mean to attack you, for that is something I don't want to do this hobby is suppose to be fun.

Can you direct me to examples of contributions to this site that you have made that did not solicit product that you sold? I guess why I'm questioning you is that I think some people on this site really don't get it. Do you think Chris Cavalier put hundreds of thousands of dollars of his own money into this website just so you could sell your products for free?

Tell you what if you are worried about the $75.00 you paid, I'd be happy to send you $75.00. Just let me know. I guess I'm frustrated with people that are critics of this website when it has uncovered the fraud that occurs every day. From what I see you seem to be an honest memorabilia dealer, that's why I don't understand why you can't support this website.

Best regards,

Todd

JimCaravello
09-20-2007, 08:15 PM
Tim / Dave - you guys amaze me.......you think that GUU is a 501(c)(3) corporation that has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to date so that you can all benefit for free?? GUU is a business - and if you continue down the path of your current thinking, it won't be around in a couple of years.......then - you can deal with all the bad material in the hobby alone - not have questions answered - not participate in auctions, such as the upcoming GUU auction, where all the material will be rock solid - not pose questions about the auction material - not be able to sell your material to a targeted audience in the future For Sale section of this site which is being revamped - where people will flock to because the model that Chris has created is unlike any in the hobby...............Seriously - I don't mean to be critical here, but wake up and smell the coffee.........

Tim - you say people are criticizing you, but your first thread in this post was nothing but criticism of this site! You have gained so much knowledge on this site and sold for free and Chris pulls the For Sale Section to enhance it and the first thing you do is criticize it??? How many times have you contacted me on a bat in an obscure section on ebay that I have helped you buy - not competed against you in that auction - and then you win that bat an re-sell it for a profit?? How many items have you sold through the For Sale section for FREE!! Your first year subscription in GUU cost you $10 after you back out the book - and you sit there and throw stones that the site is going downhill!!! I am truly amazed at this...........All I am saying is - before you pass judgement, wait and see what will happen in the near future - my Mother always said that patience is a virtue......don't criticize the future when you haven't even seen what the future will hold........

Dave - to your question - it has no relevance to the removal of the For Sale section - yes, I consigned to the pilot auction and to the upcoming auction. I also won an item in the first auction ( Mattingly bat ) and I paid a pretty darn good price for it - I will also bid in the upcoming auction on a few items that I have interest in - and will probably pay top dollar for a few things I really want.........what does that have to do with the topic at hand??

I am sorry guys - you are going down the wrong path quickly - as I said earlier, you all have the free will to participate in this site - join it if you like and if are willing to pay the money - join as a paying member - but don't criticize Chris or this site because they made a change.

Jim

skyking26
09-20-2007, 08:56 PM
Hey, thought I'd chime in here. GUU has connected me to some great guys in the hobby, and reconnected me to guys I dealt with 15 years ago. I have personally met and asked advice from guys like Jim and Mike S. and bought a great bat from Jim C. a few years ago. While I can honestly say the sale section does not always work for me - I try it for FREE, and if I don't attract a buyer, oh well. Gotta defend Chris, Jim, Todd, etc. here.

Keep up the good work, enjoy the site.

R. Koppel

bat_master
09-20-2007, 09:05 PM
Todd/Jim:

I really don't have anything to say in response. There isn't anything I can say that will add to this thread. I also feel pretty strongly that there isn't anything I can say here that I won't have thrown back in my face so I won't even bother.

Todd, you are absolutely correct that the majority of my posts have been to sell items. However, there have been times where I've emailed members privately to share information as I'm sure you have done the same.

Have I benefitted from listing items for sale here: YES
Have others:YES
Do I enjoy being a member here? YES
Will I continue to be a member here? PROBABLY
Am I thankful for having this site? NOT ENOUGH
Would I like to see updated content in areas? YES
Did I post a short list of things I would like to see happen? YES
Did my comments come across as ungrateful? YES
Am I sorry I said what I posted, and do I take it back? NO.

I'm as passionate about the hobby as anyone else here. That's why we are all here. I don't ever want to be a person that regrets what they say or the way they do things.

I meant it as constructive criticism plain and simple and if it was/is perceived as "throwing stones" then so be it.

both-teams-played-hard
09-20-2007, 10:58 PM
If I'm a member of this site and read 5 threads a day about photomatching, another 3 threads about a Robinson Cano glove, and 4 more about Lou Lampson & American Memorabilia I personally don't benefit from any of that as a paying customer.


I personally enjoy ALL of the threads that I do not benefit from. It's nice to read about other collecting adventures and curiosity. I think more people should post and not be intimidated by more knowledgable collectors. I could give a rat's backside about football helmets, but I think the posts from Aeanas(spelling?) are the most detailed and informative on this whole site. I've learned more about Blue Jays jerseys from Kingjammy than I need to know. I don't care about baseball bats. As far as I'm concerned they're all from the "deadwood" era. However, I do appreciate the passion from bat collectors. If this forum only contained topics that related to what I collect...then that would be real boring. Right?
As for the "For Sale" section, what did you people do 3 years ago? No problem, just go to the myhalloffame "for sale" section. You guys act like eBay shut down or something.
I totally agree with Yankwood- this forum is a hobby in itself!

Eric
09-20-2007, 11:49 PM
Guys-

I have to say, give Chris the chance to show everyone what he'd like to do with the auction and the for sale section.

Check the man's track record. The goal with everything he has done is to make information sharing better and take the risk out of doing business in the hobby.

I look forward to seeing what he has in mind. As many of you can tell I enjoy reading everything on this forum. I am grateful for everyone who pitches in with their knowledge and enthusiasm to make this a better hobby.
Eric

whatupyos
09-21-2007, 12:12 AM
The only thing I want to say is respect everyones opinion. I'm sick of the "Throwing Stones" comment that has been over-used here lately. If I remember correctly, this is America, we have freedom of speech. The views by some might not be the views of all, but we should respect those opinions as well as the fact that someone might be trying something new to help the site with regards to pulling the for sale section. Personally, I'm a little frustrated that the for sale section is gone. But...let me say that again BUT I also RESPECT that one of the administrators has the right to pull it if he so chooses. None of us are perfect, but we all need to chill out and not get so ridiculous with chastizing others for venting their frustration.

Aaron

JimCaravello
09-21-2007, 08:03 AM
Hi Aaron - I have no problem with constructive criticism or suggestions that will enhance the site and I know that Chris Cavalier would welcome such things. This is a free flowing Forum and everyone should be allowed their opinions and comments.

What I have a problem with is that Chris announced the removal of the For Sale section and explained why - he also indicated that he was creating a new For Sale model that will be rolled out after the auction. Instead of waiting to see what that might look like and knowing that this is a temporary loss for the site, people used this as a launching point to criticize the site ( the site has been going downhill for months - I don't know why I come here anymore, etc. - ).

Comments like this are not positive or constructive. In addition, comments like this are made from the same people who have used the site and all of it's resources, including personnel involved with the site to make money and basically use it as an extension of their own business. When I say make money - I don't mean they buy an item for $10 and then sell it for $10 so they can buy another item for their collection - I mean they are using this site and its resources to buy an item for $10 and then selling it for $100 - and they are truly making a profit off of the captive audience this site has. They are allowed to basically do this for free.

Meantime, Chris is pouring 80 hours a week into GUU and thousands and thousands of dollars of his money into this site, without asking anything in return.

No - the negative comments that we have seen in this thread are because the free ride people have had has come to a temporary halt and they feel "Entitled" to have the For Sale section, even though they haven't paid a dime into this site or have any ownership of the site.

I choose to take a different approach - I will embrace the change and I look forward to seeing what Chris has in store in the coming months. Based on his track record, I am sure it will be cutting edge and fabulous.

Jim

karamaxjoe
09-21-2007, 08:48 AM
Chris, Jim and Eric,

First I'd like to applaud all your efforts in creating a resource for game used collectors. Ten years ago we had to write letters and search for information at shows which was hit or miss at best. I surf through this site nearly every day for information and would hate to see it go away.

I do think you always have room for improvement. Some of the content needs to be updated or removed. I've always enjoyed the informative articles MEARS provides and I think some of your experts could easily do the same more frequently.

In my business and in many others we provide evaluation forms to rate our service and seek better ways to do our jobs. I think some of your senior members would welcome the opportunity to provide valuable feedback on improving the site.

Mike

ChrisCavalier
09-21-2007, 08:49 AM
First of all, I want to say that I personally appreciate the posts on this thread as I think they have helped me further understand the variety of thoughts of our members. When you have thousands of registered members, and many more thousands who view the site though not officially registered, you will undoubtedly have different opinions on various topics. Obviously, we think it is good to allow those opinions to be heard and I truly respect and appreciate the opinions that have been shared.

I just wanted to add one last thing to make sure everyone truly understands what we are trying to do and the motivations behind it as I am not 100% sure that has been made clear. I read a question at one point of this thread asking whether we are about bringing together collectors or about making money. I just wanted to reply to that question so everyone can understand our intentions.

It has been correctly stated in this thread that if GUU does not generate revenues it will not continue to exist and grow as we have seen recently. While this is absolutely true, I think it is important to understand that any of GUU's efforts to generate revenue will be based on an attempt to provide something of value to the collecting community. Said another way, we believe the way GUU will make money IS by meeting the needs of its members. These objectives are not mutually exclusive. They are in fact 100% related to one another.

With that said, I wanted to further clarify the direction we are heading so it is clear to everyone. If you look at the outer circle of the GUU logo on the homepage you will see the words "Information, Community and Memorabilia". Up until this year, we have generally focused on the 'Information' and 'Community' sides of that equation. At this point in time, we believe we can significantly help collectors by creating a better way to buy and sell merchandise…the ‘Memorabilia’ side of the GUU equation. While that isn’t part of the forum’s stated objective to “bring game used collectors together and help hobbyists educate each other”, we feel there is a significant opportunity to add value to collectors by creating a better system than currently exists today in this area. It is also something we believe is an important extension of how the other areas (Information and Community) can bring real and meaningful value to collectors.

With that said, since the beginning of this year we been investing a great deal of time and money to create the transaction models we will be rolling out on this site. Part of what we have been working to create will be seen when we roll out the consignment auction at the end of the month. The other part of what we have been working on will be seen in the enhanced “For Sale” area that has been previously mentioned on this thread. Please know that we did not temporarily close the previous “For Sale” area as an attempt to take anything away from users of the site. In fact, our intentions are quite to the contrary. We hope everyone will see the value of what we have been working to create when these platforms are launched. It is system we believe will help protect collectors from questionable and suspect merchandise in ways never done before.

Lastly, I wanted to also explain how creating a system for helping protect collectors when they buy and sell memorabilia relates to the other two objectives of the site (Information and Community). We feel the ‘Memorabilia’ side of the GUU equation is where GUU can generate its revenue ASSUMING it is addressing the needs of its members. Again, we have decided to focus on this area rather than advertising or subscription revenue to sustain the site for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post. Basically, our goal is to provide the ‘Information’ and ‘Community’ sides of the equation without charge and sustain the site via the memorabilia transaction side.

So what does this all boil down to? We will be launching a new transaction system that we believe will help better meet the needs of the collecting community than what exists today. If we have done that than GUU should be able to generate revenue. This revenue will be used to support the other areas of the site which we do not plan to charge members to use. In the end, as always, we believe it is the best way to meet the needs of our members while allowing GUU to continue to exist and grow. I hope that everyone can understand this and support us as we continue in our efforts to help collectors.

Sincerely,
Chris Cavalier

bat_master
09-21-2007, 09:40 AM
First of all, I want to say that I personally appreciate the posts on this thread as I think they have helped me further understand the variety of thoughts of our members. When you have thousands of registered members, and many more thousands who view the site though not officially registered, you will undoubtedly have different opinions on various topics. Obviously, we think it is good to allow those opinions to be heard and I truly respect and appreciate the opinions that have been shared.

I just wanted to add one last thing to make sure everyone truly understands what we are trying to do and the motivations behind it as I am not 100% sure that has been made clear. I read a question at one point of this thread asking whether we are about bringing together collectors or about making money. I just wanted to reply to that question so everyone can understand our intentions.

It has been correctly stated in this thread that if GUU does not generate revenues it will not continue to exist and grow as we have seen recently. While this is absolutely true, I think it is important to understand that any of GUU's efforts to generate revenue will be based on an attempt to provide something of value to the collecting community. Said another way, we believe the way GUU will make money IS by meeting the needs of its members. These objectives are not mutually exclusive. They are in fact 100% related to one another.

With that said, I wanted to further clarify the direction we are heading so it is clear to everyone. If you look at the outer circle of the GUU logo on the homepage you will see the words "Information, Community and Memorabilia". Up until this year, we have generally focused on the 'Information' and 'Community' sides of that equation. At this point in time, we believe we can significantly help collectors by creating a better way to buy and sell merchandise…the ‘Memorabilia’ side of the GUU equation. While that isn’t part of the forum’s stated objective to “bring game used collectors together and help hobbyists educate each other”, we feel there is a significant opportunity to add value to collectors by creating a better system than currently exists today in this area. It is also something we believe is an important extension of how the other areas (Information and Community) can bring real and meaningful value to collectors.

With that said, since the beginning of this year we been investing a great deal of time and money to create the transaction models we will be rolling out on this site. Part of what we have been working to create will be seen when we roll out the consignment auction at the end of the month. The other part of what we have been working on will be seen in the enhanced “For Sale” area that has been previously mentioned on this thread. Please know that we did not temporarily close the previous “For Sale” area as an attempt to take anything away from users of the site. In fact, our intentions are quite to the contrary. We hope everyone will see the value of what we have been working to create when these platforms are launched. It is system we believe will help protect collectors from questionable and suspect merchandise in ways never done before.

Lastly, I wanted to also explain how creating a system for helping protect collectors when they buy and sell memorabilia relates to the other two objectives of the site (Information and Community). We feel the ‘Memorabilia’ side of the GUU equation is where GUU can generate its revenue ASSUMING it is addressing the needs of its members. Again, we have decided to focus on this area rather than advertising or subscription revenue to sustain the site for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post. Basically, our goal is to provide the ‘Information’ and ‘Community’ sides of the equation without charge and sustain the site via the memorabilia transaction side.

So what does this all boil down to? We will be launching a new transaction system that we believe will help better meet the needs of the collecting community than what exists today. If we have done that than GUU should be able to generate revenue. This revenue will be used to support the other areas of the site which we do not plan to charge members to use. In the end, as always, we believe it is the best way to meet the needs of our members while allowing GUU to continue to exist and grow. I hope that everyone can understand this and support us as we continue in our efforts to help collectors.

Sincerely,
Chris Cavalier

Absolutely! Very well said. I think this post is really all many of those concerned were looking for. Just a bit more detailed explanation.

Truthfully, in the way this has it laid out I'm absolutely excited to see the forthcoming format.

I think it will be a great addition and hopefully in the near future additional segments of GUU that contain some of the slightly outdated material will be updated.

After all, it was those portions of GUU that got me here as a member in the first place.

MSpecht
09-21-2007, 01:22 PM
Just a few thoughts to add to this thread, without (hopefully) being too redundant.

First, if you have read some of my posts in the Experts' Corner you know that I am one of the older participants on the site and have been seriously around the hobby since 1968. (I really wish that I was a 24-year-old hobbyist, but things are what they are.) Without going into a detailed description, the early days were like the Wild, Wild West --- not because people were dishonest and rip-off artists, but because the knowledge base in all areas, and particularly game-used equipment, just was not there. (Well, I guess there were some minor league, amateur rip-off artists -- I remember the laughable counterfeit sepia-colored Ted Williams #68 card when it came out.)

The basic necessity for a collector of anything -- coin, stamps, sports memorabilia, what-have-you, is knowledge. You have to have a way to make sure you don't get taken, either by being ill-informed or mis-informed. There have always been people willing to "do the research" and share the information -- guys like Frank Nagy and his T206 info, Roger Christensen with his autograph guides and address lists, Mike Montbraind with his early bat research, Dick Dobbins and early jersey analysis methods, and on and on.

These (and many others') pioneering efforts became even more valuable as "The Hobby" gained interest and prices began to rise and the lure of money brought in some seriously ethically-challenged people. But , there was a problem. If you didn't actually know one of these people with a strong knowledge base in a specific area, there was no realistic way to tap into it (remember, these were the days when most auctions were done with an ad in The Trader Speaks and accepted only mail bids postmarked no later than the closing date.)

Anyway, I am starting to tell you what you already know, so fast forward now through the innovations like card grading, telephone and on-line auctions, authenticating companies on-site at convention signings (back then the thought was "Why should i pay some guy $10 to give me a certificate that says Stan Musial really signed this ball when I saw him sign it with my own eyes?") and finally Game Used Forum, over 30 years removed from the situation I described above, was started and provided an environment where people could interact with others they had never met, and likely had never heard of, and benefit from their knowledge. That philosophical concept eventually joined GUF and Game Used Universe, and here we stand.

I was steered to the site by a long-time friend and found it to be entertaining and fun. For awhile, I read and enjoyed. Occasionally I would see a question about game used bats and respond and make available some H & B records or whatever. At that time, having not been really active in the hobby for about 8 years, I didn't know many of the "new" players -- I had never met (or even heard of) Chris Cavalier, Jim Caravello, Rob Steinmetz, or most of the people who posted on the site. Eventually, however, I was introduced to them and found that their philosophy, integrity, sense of ethics, etc were very much in line with my own. At a point in time, I committed to participation in the site, and have done so for almost 2 years.

What am I trying to say here? Basically that I can attest to the fact that the people commiting many hours to the advancement of the Game Used Universe site have never wavered in their objective as Chris stated in his last post -- providing a venue where collectors can get complete, accurate, and detailed information to allow them to make informed decisions on the memorabilia they are considering adding to their collections. It's that simple.

What have I personally committed to the site? Basically, I have put in about 30 hours a week for the past year-and-a-half or so -- responding to posts , responding to an average of 15 or 20 emails a week, assisting with planning and development, promotion, and other things. What's my "take" for this? Well, I remember a post Dave Grob made on MEARS when they revamped their site a bit and he indicated that 'it wasn't about the money' as Dave B. and Troy probably averaged abour $12.00 an hour for their work. All I can say is, I wish I could land one of those high-paying jobs like the MEARS boys have. Heck, like Jim C., I don't even bid on Ebay even if there is a chance to make a few dollars -- my personal stance is that if a member asks me a question about a bat, either on the forum or privately via e-mail, I won't bid on that item, as I would view that competition as a violation of trust of the person who asked the question.

But what I have gained is a sense of having helped people more than a few times from being taken, which is the same feeling alot of other forum members get who do the same, and again, was the primary reason the site was started in the first place. I have met a bunch of great people on the site, and more than a few who have broadened my knowledge base in specific areas. I would never hesitate to contact Tommy Duino on Angels stuff (even though he still won't trade me back the signed Nolan Ryan lithograph he got from me 20 years ago for a Morris Nettles hat) or Howard Wolf on Phillies. Eric has helped me with Chargers gear, Jeff has educated me on Cardinals bats and you can't beat Bill, Brett and all on Ripken Jr items. If I have a question on a Kingman bat, or what uniform number he wore his first year in rookie ball, I know who to go to. That is, in my opinion, the value of the GUU site.

So what is in the future? I've seen the future and it is more of the same -- true to the principles and objectives that have brought GUU to this point, and have caused so many of you to spend alot of your hobby time in becoming educated and, in turn, educating others.

The impact is felt throughout the hobby. Recently several major auction houses, authentication services, and others have made a big show of puting forth their own Manifestos of Conduct or similar declarations. I am not saying that many of these people have "new-found religion," or have not conducted themselves with integrity in the past, but I believe that the discussions, disclosures, and comments on this site provided the motivation to "fine-tune' some of the previous practices within the hobby and caused companies become more transparent in their operations.

Back to the future. The platforms that have been developed for the transactional elements of this site are outstanding, and will provide the collector with the highest degree of assurance possible as to the legitimacy of an item. That has always been, and remains, the objective of GUU. To suffer a little inconvenience to make this happen , such as the closing of the 'For Sale' Forum for awhile, will seem a small price to pay in the future.

Thanks to everyone who makes this site fun and enjoyable, informative and educational. I apologize if I got a little off-subject. But, to use an old Seinfeld line, soon you will be able to look at all Sale Items and Auction Items on this site and say, "They're real --- and they're spectacular."

Mike Jackitout7@aol.com (Jackitout7@aol.com)

skyking26
09-23-2007, 08:05 PM
Mike could not have put it better! He personally has assisted with information for me thru the years. I found this site thru a tip, and it is a great knowledge base. I do it all for free. Where else can you do that? I spoke with a fellow collector friend the other night that related that oftentimes the competition and fraud has soured him on what was once an enjoyable get-away from the streeses of regualr life. I feel he just was hanging with the wrong folks. There are plenty here that are an aid and a friend. I can think on no-where else where one can go to ask opinions and touch base with people with like interests. Having met Mike S., Jim C. at the National, they are 100% genuine which is a breathe of fresh air. Any of those that feel that this site is not benefitting you - go where you can be assisted. No one has a gun to your head...

sportscentury
09-24-2007, 01:11 AM
I've been hoping that this thread would die, for a number of reasons, but partly because, after seeing how this thread developed, I found myself wishing that I had not posted or been a part of it in any way. I am completely fine with the for-sale forum being temporarily closed, permanently closed, or whatever is ultimately decided. I am sure that there are many issues that arise in the course of running this site that I am not aware of, or at least do not entirely understand. Thanks to everyone for their hard work and for continuing to help inform collectors and expose fraudulent practices.

Reid