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Vintagedeputy
09-26-2007, 11:30 PM
I saw a bat that I liked on ebay. Contacted the seller and told him that I was interested. I asked him what his best price was to sell it directly to me (yeah yeah I know, please dont quote silly ebay rules to me).

Anyway, this goofball tells me his price and I agree to it. He gave me a price based upon what someone at a show told him that it was worth. He sends me additional pictures and tells me the history of the bat. I felt good about the provenance so I again reiterate that I want it. I email him back asking him how he'd like me to send payment......all this time I "assumed" that he ended the auction, after all we had an agreement. The bat was up for days without a single bid!

Well, after not hearing back for a few hours, I checked the auction on a whim and saw that he let it run its course and it sold (to a forum member) for quite a bit more than our agreed upon price. I emailed him back and asked him what happened and now he says that he never agreed to sell it to me, but rather he would sell it at that agreed upon price if the bat didnt sell on ebay.

I guess you can't take a man on his word anymore.


Jim

B1SON
09-26-2007, 11:45 PM
That sucks Jim! I guess that is why I just bid and don't try and end things early.

brianborsch
09-26-2007, 11:56 PM
If you don't mind me asking, what bat was it? An auction link please?

Vintagedeputy
09-27-2007, 12:07 AM
B1son - yeah, I used to just bid like everyone else and would lose items I wanted. Then I went to a snipe service and won some stuff but alot of times, the bids went higher than my snipe. Recently I started picking auctions where I really liked the item and took a chance and emailed the seller. I have a somewhat informal "system" that I use (haha) that has seemed to work for me so far in acquiring pieces that would normally have sold well beyond my budget. I havent kept track of how many times its worked out for me, but thats how I recently bought my Jorge Posada and Mark Grace gamers.

Brian - I wouldn't normally disclose it but I have emailed the forum member who won and told him the story. I'm happy that he won it and am not mad at him at all. I'm pissed at the seller for backing out of our verbal agreement.

Here's the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/1978-Game-Used-Detroit-Tigers-Alan-Trammell-Bat_W0QQitemZ300154520799QQihZ020QQcategoryZ60596Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

3arod13
09-27-2007, 04:30 AM
I have emailed the forum member who won and told him the story.

Here's the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/1978-Game-Used-Detroit-Tigers-Alan-Trammell-Bat_W0QQitemZ300154520799QQihZ020QQcategoryZ60596Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Sorry to hear about your bad luck with that auction/seller. He should have kept his word. However, as I always say...it today's society, it's all about the almighty dollar (in most cases).

On another note about something you said in this thread, I do find one thing interesting, yet somewhat troublesome.

When I previously had an issue with the winner of that auction (won't go into details and bring all that back up again) and I made a post in this forum about it, it was removed. I was later ok with that and understood Chris' point in the matter. I did however make a comment about that individual being a GUU member and also discussed about people looking out for each other and possible favortism towards others. I was told by Chris that this was not the case and that I was wrong...the individual was not a GUU member. I now find this not to be true.

Honesty and Integrity!

As you said earlier...I guess you just can't take a man for his word.

Regards, Tony

Vintagedeputy
09-27-2007, 05:56 AM
Tony,

I vaguely remember what you are talking about, and I think the situations are different. The member who won this auction on ebay did it fair and square, by the book. I have no issue with him at all.

When I emailed the seller, the bat had been up for auction for days without a single bid. There were no bids on it when we made our deal. Within a matter of 2 hours after our deal, the bid jumped up to $50 more than our deal price. The seller failed to cancel the auction like he should have after we finalized a deal. I was out running errands yesterday but checked my email several times from my mobile and I kept in contact on a timely basis with the seller. There was never an indication from him that the deal was not on.

What this amounts to, is that the seller realized soon after our agreement, that there was money being left on the table. He chose not to honor the deal and went for the money. He ended up profiting more than $200 by doing this.

Funny thing is, when I asked how the bat was acquired, he said that his uncle worked for the Tigers in some clubhouse/field capacity. I asked if he had any proof of that to add to the provenance. He replied back about how he doesnt lie in his auctions and his feedback proves that. Too bad in this case, I cant let his feedback show that he doesnt honor his word as a seller or as a man.

Jim

3arod13
09-27-2007, 06:03 AM
Tony,

I vaguely remember what you are talking about, and I think the situations are different. The member who won this auction on ebay did it fair and square, by the book. I have no issue with him at all.

When I emailed the seller, the bat had been up for auction for days without a single bid. There were no bids on it when we made our deal. Within a matter of 2 hours after our deal, the bid jumped up to $50 more than our deal price. The seller failed to cancel the auction like he should have after we finalized a deal. I was out running errands yesterday but checked my email several times from my mobile and I kept in contact on a timely basis with the seller. There was never an indication from him that the deal was not on.

What this amounts to, is that the seller realized soon after our agreement, that there was money being left on the table. He chose not to honor the deal and went for the money. He ended up profiting more than $200 by doing this.

Funny thing is, when I asked how the bat was acquired, he said that his uncle worked for the Tigers in some clubhouse/field capacity. I asked if he had any proof of that to add to the provenance. He replied back about how he doesnt lie in his auctions and his feedback proves that. Too bad in this case, I cant let his feedback show that he doesnt honor his word as a seller or as a man.

Jim

Jim,

Misunderstanding. The point to my post was not against the winner or seller of the auciton, or how that scenario played out.

My disappointment is with Chris. Chris told me that he (the winner of that auction) was not a member of GUU. However, based on your comments, he is a GUU member.

Just disappointed to find out what I was told is not the truth.

Regards, Tony

Vintagedeputy
09-27-2007, 06:15 AM
Well, I could be wrong.

I thought that Zane was a member here but after checking the members list, I do not see him listed. Its possible that I made a mistake in that or maybe he used to be a member. I thought for sure that I had seen him post here before.

Vintagedeputy
09-27-2007, 06:18 AM
Let me add, I've bought from Zane before and that could be why I thought he was a member here........really not sure at this point.

3arod13
09-27-2007, 06:44 AM
Well, I could be wrong.

I thought that Zane was a member here but after checking the members list, I do not see him listed. Its possible that I made a mistake in that or maybe he used to be a member. I thought for sure that I had seen him post here before.

Ok, thanks! Then please ignore my post and/or remove it. Sorry for any misunderstanding and/or inconvenience.

Regards, Tony

ChrisCavalier
09-27-2007, 06:46 AM
I was told by Chris that this was not the case and that I was wrong...the individual was not a GUU member. I now find this not to be true.

Honesty and Integrity!

As you said earlier...I guess you just can't take a man for his word.

Regards, Tony
Hello Tony,

I think this is a lesson for everyone who participates on the forum. If you would have checked the member list via the Hobby Network you would have seen that Zane is not a registered GUU member. Instead, you took someone else's opinion and then questioned my honesty and the integrity of my word on the forum.

I think those that know me well will tell you I am painstakingly diligent in making sure my word is good and I really don't appreciate insinuations that I was somehow not honest in my correspondence to you.

Again, I think this is a very good lesson to everyone to make sure you check your facts before making claims on the forum that insinuate someone is not being forthright, etc. If members can learn that lesson I think it will help continue to increase the credibility of the forum and eliminate any potential criticisms that forum members are unnecessarily critical, etc.

Sincerely,
Chris

3arod13
09-27-2007, 06:52 AM
Hello Tony,

I think this is a lesson for everyone who participates on the forum. If you would have checked the member list via the Hobby Network you would have seen that Zane is not a registered GUU member. Instead, you took someone else's opinion and then questioned my honesty and the integrity of my word on the forum.

I think those that know me well will tell you I am painstakingly diligent in making sure my word is good and I really don't appreciate insinuations that I was somehow not honest in my correspondence to you.

Again, I think this is a very good lesson to everyone to make sure you check your facts before making claims on the forum that insinuate someone is not being forthright, etc. If members can learn that lesson I think it will help continue to increase the credibility of the forum and eliminate any potential criticisms that forum members are unnecessarily critical, etc.

Sincerely,
Chris

Chris, agree and please accept my apology.

Regards, Tony

Vintagedeputy
09-27-2007, 07:34 AM
Chris,

Please accept my apologies as well. I've purchased a bat from Zane before and I know that we have discussed him on this forum before. I guess that I thought he was a member here from my prior dealings. I had never even considered that he wasnt a member here until Tony mentioned that he wasnt. Thats when I checked the member list and saw that he wasnt a member.

Again, my apologies if my assumption was the impetus for Tony's statements.

Jim

3arod13
09-27-2007, 07:40 AM
Chris,

Please accept my apologies as well. I've purchased a bat from Zane before and I know that we have discussed him on this forum before. I guess that I thought he was a member here from my prior dealings. I had never even considered that he wasnt a member here until Tony mentioned that he wasnt. Thats when I checked the member list and saw that he wasnt a member.

Again, my apologies if my assumption was the impetus for Tony's statements.

Jim

Jim,

Thanks for your efforts, but I take full responsbility for this matter. I was the one who made the inappropriate comments that I did, without having the facts.

As Chris has stated in numerous and numerous threads, have the FACTS...FACTS...FACTS before making any kind of negative comments or accusations.

I take full responsibility for this as have learned a valuable lesson.

Now let me go wash the egg off my face.

Regards, Tony

soxbats
09-27-2007, 12:31 PM
Not to be unsympathetic, becuase I too have been frustrated by promises and no delivery on GU items, but I find it ironic that you would rely on the word of someone who was willing to violate ebay rules and go after the allmighty dollar. There have been numerous threads written about the practice of emailing sellers early to buy an item before an auction close and I will not revisit those. Suffice it to say that it happens all the time on almost every item.

However, a person who ends an auction early, in violation of ebay rules, does so only because he/she thinks that the offer is more than the ultimate auction price and therefore goes for the money. That is the type of person you are dealing with and, frankly, you had every hope to be dealing with. The honorable seller will give everyone a chance and let the chips fall where they may. When you wrote and asked the seller to end the auction early you were appealing to this basic self interest. When seller got a higher price the very insinct you appealed to worked against you.

To guard against those who would try to end the auction early by writing to sellers, which I will admit that I myself have done, I now email the sellr of anything I am really interested in and tell the seller that I intend to bid and not to end the auction early. I also offer to beat any "off the table" offer they get.

David
09-27-2007, 12:56 PM
Many eBay bidders get mad when a seller ends an auction early to sell to someone.

worldchamps
09-27-2007, 01:09 PM
soxbat

I do like your approach, like with anything though, that could backfire. If you are dealing with someone who is shill bidding, driving up their own price, you have encouraged them to maybe tack on more.

In a perfect world, there would be no ending early, no shill bidders, no snipers, and people would bid early and not the last second....but it is not a perfect world

I do think from now on if it is a high end, maybe once in a lifetime deal, I will email the seller to at least email me if someone makes a offer to end early so I can have a chance to match or beat.

I am still pissed about the Hagen jersey... I hope it sells for over $10,000. Not pissed at the buyer (if you are on here), just pissed at the seller. I would love to know what the jersey was sold for.

Bill

bigtruck260
09-27-2007, 01:19 PM
Well...

Interesting argument. There is a local guy in STL who has several brick and mortar stores in the area...and he does a good amount of business on eBay. I have bid on two of his items in the past year that have gone until the last 24 hours...and then the darn auction is ended early.

One item in particular was a Ray Lankford 2004 road jersey. I am a Ray fan, and that being his last year in the bigs...it was kind of an important item to me. I had a bid of $125...and NO OTHER BIDS FOR 7 DAYS. I was ready to spend $400 on it. I can only imagine that he had the jersey displayed in his store with a higher price tag...and someone bought it - he has not re-listed it.

Is this an ethical violation? If I bid, I am entering into an agreement. If he sells the item to someone else, I think I have a right to be a little upset. When I emailed him about it, he never responded. I can't even look at him when he sets his booth up at local shows. For seven days, I had my heart set on that jersey.

BTW, if someone here has it, contact me.

richpick
09-27-2007, 01:42 PM
A comment about ebay. I have bought and sold many items on ebay and overall am very happy. Many items have sold way below what I thought they would but on the flip side many have finished much higher than expected. I have also been contacted by buyers to end auctions early but I have yet to have a fair offer so I have never done the practice. In this world where everyone is trying to make a buck I can see where buyers would contact sellers early and try to pick up the item at a lower price (lets be honest if you have to have the item you will just wait and make sure you are the high bidder). I in the past was lambasted by forum members because I picked up a game used jersey at a flea market and the seller did not know what he had so I tried and talk the price down from $10 to $5 and the hell I took that I cheated the seller and so on. We all enjoy collecting game used items but for me the hunt to find items is half the fun and if you can get them at a great price then more power to the knowledgeable. Does anyone watch Antiques Roadshow they do not criticize the people who bring things in that they bought cheap and are worth thousands. Back to my point I do not blame anyone in trying to get a jump on the competition (thats all of us). I do think steroids is cheating though!

Richard

bigtruck260
09-27-2007, 03:22 PM
Ebay is totally against what they call "circumvention of fees". I got a nasty gram once because my auction said that I would take offers...but my item was at a fixed price (with no best offer function). They are against you if you are able to get yourself a few extra duckets on your own...but they can allow people to sell thousands of fake sigs, bats, paintings, cards - and everything else. A little double standard there.

If you complain about circumvention of fees (the basic topic in this thread)...eBay acts immediately. if you complain about fake autographs, you get zip...

otismalibu
09-27-2007, 03:46 PM
If 10 people email a seller about buying a listed item directly, how many of those 10 are offering substantially less money than they think it will go for?

I'll say 9.

And that might be low.

Vintagedeputy
09-27-2007, 04:02 PM
My feelings are that when an item is listed for sale on ebay, its like an ad in the classifieds of the local paper. Sure, ebay wants you to finish the auction so that they realize all their fees. When I approach a seller and ask what they are looking for on an item, they have the opportunity to say "I wont end the auction early".

If they give me a price, I either accept what they are asking, with maybe some slight negotiation, or else I say thank you very much and move on. This particular seller stated to me that his best possible prcie would be $150, and that he just put it up on ebay to see if there was any interest. Obviously for a week, there was no interest in his $175 starting bid, so he offered it to me for the $150 value quoted by someone at a show.

What happened here is that he made a verbal agreement to sell the item, yet decided either by choice or by accident when a bid actually came in, to let the auction run its course. We had a gentleman's agreement which he could have lived up to at any point. When he saw that he would be leaving $205 on the table, he went for the money.

As for Ebay's "circumvention" rules, I personally could care less. Ebay made a listing fee off the seller, my once a month attempt to purchase something isnt going to break their budget, nor do I consider them to be the auction police. If a seller has an item and we agree on a price, then ebay is nothing more than the daily classifieds of my local newspaper or a garage sale.

otismalibu
09-27-2007, 04:56 PM
Obviously for a week, there was no interest in his $175 starting bid, so he offered it to me for the $150 value quoted by someone at a show.

Anyone who's been on eBay, knows that seasoned bidders snipe at the end. It's not like only one person bid. There obviously WAS interest in his $175 starting bid.

I'm not saying he should make a deal and break it, but this is exactly the type of auction you never want to end early. If he was sitting at $9.99 with a day left, I could see him getting nervous. But he set his opening high enough to get what he thought it should fetch, so let it run. The worst that could happen was that he could have sold it to you for $150. Best case scenario...he gets multiple bidders.

It's the sports memorabilia market - there are no rules. :)

Vintagedeputy
09-27-2007, 06:00 PM
I understand what you are saying. I think actually that his high starting bid scared some folks away. I figured that by the last day there would be a bid. Since there wasnt one, I took the chance and emailed him.

otismalibu
09-27-2007, 06:05 PM
I understand what you are saying. I think actually that his high starting bid scared some folks away.

Yeah, that seems to happen with high opening bids.

Ebay is hard to figure sometimes. I watched an item end with no bids and was almost going to email the guy and make him an offer. Then I saw it re-listed for a little less. I kept an eye on it and it ended higher than the original auction. Go figure.

I like when sellers allow the submitted questions to be seen by everyone that views the auction. Sometimes that can be entertaining, seeing everyone's approach.

Vintagedeputy
09-27-2007, 06:28 PM
I've done well so far with emailing the seller on ebay auctions. I snagged a game used Posada bat that I photo matched and a nice 2003 Mark Grace gamer from his last season, cheap.

I guess it's hit or miss. I like my odds.

Jim

NYRangers
09-27-2007, 08:10 PM
I'm glad he backed out of the deal with you. I have had to resort to contacting the sellers of every item that I am interested in and ask them not to sell off-line so I will have a fair chance at an item I like. I look forward to the day that someone posts on here and says that they sent payment for an off-line deal and got nothing in return and they have no recourse through ebay.

Vintagedeputy
09-27-2007, 08:54 PM
I'm glad he backed out of the deal with you. I have had to resort to contacting the sellers of every item that I am interested in and ask them not to sell off-line so I will have a fair chance at an item I like. I look forward to the day that someone posts on here and says that they sent payment for an off-line deal and got nothing in return and they have no recourse through ebay.


Well, that's a very callous thing to say.

You have more than a "fair chance" at every item. Why dont you email the seller and make them an offer like every one else instead of begging them not to sell it off line. If you emailed me and begged me not to sell something offline because you wanted to bid, I'd tell you to pony up an offer like someone who was interested in getting the item.

5kRunner
09-27-2007, 09:19 PM
I don't see anything wrong with emailing the seller and asking him to end it early. I did it recently and it backfired on the seller. I offered, the seller declined, I was the only bidder.

The seller has all the power, all they have to do is decline to sell it early.

TNTtoys
09-27-2007, 09:50 PM
I don't see anything wrong with emailing the seller and asking him to end it early. I did it recently and it backfired on the seller. I offered, the seller declined, I was the only bidder.

The seller has all the power, all they have to do is decline to sell it early.

I do this once in a while when I want the item bad enough and do not want to get into a bidding war at the end. Usually it works... and I try to offer at least fair market value for everything, so nobody is losing. I usually offer more.

Ironically, the last 2 times I made an offer and it was refused, I won the items for far less than my offer. Granted my offers were "more than fair" but I suppose that they brought out the greed in the seller (if he were offering x, maybe I can get x+$100 if I let it ride)...

Vintagedeputy
09-27-2007, 10:48 PM
Thank you to those who agree with me that there is nothing wrong with emailing the seller and trying to end the auction early.

What's important to remember in the example that I brought up is that I left everything in the seller's control:

1) He had the ability to decline to end the auction early.

2) I did not lowball him, tell him that his bat was junk, or a store model, or was worth less because it was cracked.

3) I asked him what his best price was and he named that price and I agreed. I didn't haggle him down one dime. I agreed to his price as I thought it was more than fair.

Had I had a few more hours, he probably would have cancelled the auction as I thought he would and this would be a moot point. It was just my bad luck that 2 hours after we agreed on a price, a higher bid was placed. The seller saw the money and went for it.

You win some, you lose some.

soxbats
09-28-2007, 09:07 AM
How about thank you for everyone's thoughts whether you agree or disagree, that is what make this forum enjoyable.:)

We all can agree that people break the rules on e-bay in this regard, but that does not make it right or fair. Further, for every hardened bidder that knows the tricks (like those on this site) there are 10 or even 100 who do not and get extremely frustrated when they play by the rules, bid, and have the item ended early. That affects all of us who sell because it undermines the fairness of the process and may cause people not to bid in the future. (See for example the comment above about sending money and not getting the item, I feel that pain)

The seller who ends the auction early cannot be treated like a normal seller becuase he/she is willing to violate the contract with ebay. Ironically, you are complaining about someone breaking his promise to you to break his contract with ebay and other protential bidders. Further, a condition of the contract was that seller would end the auction and that did not occur.

Now, before someone knocks me off this high horse, I will admit that I have done exactly what you have done. (In my defense I will say that I did it only because others had obtained bats I wanted by having sellers end auctions early in the past). Someone above noted that you might get caught in shill bidding. I totally agree and, further, given my statements about the type of seller I am dealing with, I assume this. That risk is the same risk you have when answering a classified ad or trying to talk down a dealer. I reserve these type of offers for things that I simply cannot live without and assume I am going to pay a bit more than I might have had to pay at auction.

Also, one last piece of advice, I always insist that the auction be ended immediately and check to make sure this happens.

Great topic and thanks for the lively debate.:)

Vintagedeputy
09-28-2007, 09:46 AM
soxbats,

I appreciate your comments and all those either for or against the concept of emailing the seller. I too, was a person who bid fair and square and took my chances until others emailed sellers and bought items out from under me. I thought about it and realized that in the world of the disconnected internet, the main thing for me at the end of the day was whether the item I wanted ended up in my hands. Sounds cold but isnt that the way it really is? Do we really care that someone 9 states away was going to bid on the item? We want it because we want it, plain and simple. A week later, when you are holding that bat, do you feel any remorse for the guy who didnt win? Of course not. Like everything in life, its a dog eat dog world. We can all try and be sweet and play fair with each other but at the end of the day, we still want that bat, or whatever the item is.
I think that the main point here to remember is, there's no harm in asking. As I stated earlier, if a seller declines to end an auction earlier, I dont hound them. I politely thank them and then decide if I want to get into a bidding war. I feel that emailing the seller is simply another buying strategy at my disposal. If it doesn't work, I move to plan B.
I appreciate everyone's comments here and their thoughts. Its a very thought provoking discussion. While people have the right to agree or disagree, I enjoy all of the input. I do feel that the one member who said that he was happy that my deal fell through was making a childish comment and it wasn't necessary.

3arod13
09-28-2007, 09:55 AM
Ebay provides us a forum and gives us the opportunity to show the world what we have to sell. It opens the door for so many more people to see what we have and for us to make much more than selling local. However, as you stated, it's the way it is. Ebay does many things to look out for themselves...to make their money...and continues to ignore and to let fake things sit on ebay knowing that when it sells, they'll get their cut.

Yes, it's like having the angel on your left shoulder, and the devil on your right shoulder. One saying doing it and one saying don't.

Is it right that others do it, and you shouldn't? For those of us who do it, I think when we all make out, were ok with it. However, when someone does it to us and we lose something we wanted, then of course we hate it happening.

In the end, it's just the way it is.

5kRunner
09-28-2007, 10:09 AM
In the end, it's just the way it is.

Agreed. I don't like it all the time. I've just accepted that is what has to be done to win.

To be honest, I saw the Grace bat that Vintage got earlier this month. I had thought about bidding. He emailed the seller and got him to sell it early and got a great deal. Congrats to him.

Vintagedeputy
09-28-2007, 10:22 AM
5krunner,

I didnt know anyone else was interested in that bat. I do feel a little bad knowing that someone from here had an interest in it. If I remember correctly, it had one poor picture and a starting bid of like $9.99? I'm not sure.

Grace was one of those guys that I always liked because he was just a ballplayer, plain and simple. I'd have prefered a Cubs bat, but this one is just as nice. I emailed the seller and asked him what he was looking to get and he said he wanted $50. I figured that his price was more than fair. He sent me some additional pics and the bat was every bit as nice as I had hoped. It took him a while to end the auction, and I got a little nervous.

ps - the seller told me that he got the bat from a former teammate, Scott Service. I recently wrote to Service and I'm hoping he can tell me about the bat.


Jim

bigjimsguitars
09-28-2007, 10:23 AM
Vintagedeputy:

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but think about it, you are asking the seller to break the rules of ebay and circumvent their fees in an attempt to buy something for what apparently is only a good deal for you in the end and then post it on an open forum?

My point is that both you and the seller have dirty hands. You expect the seller to be fair when you attempted to negotiate an illegal contract. In other words, you asked some one to cheat (by cutting Ebay out of the loop...you would have never known about the bat if not for Ebay) and then expect that person to be ethical?

Look I'm not judging you, but please take it for what it is....

Vintagedeputy
09-28-2007, 10:27 AM
Vintagedeputy:

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but think about it, you are asking the seller to break the rules of ebay and circumvent their fees in an attempt to buy something for what apparently is only a good deal for you in the end and then post it on an open forum?

My point is that both you and the seller have dirty hands. You expect the seller to be fair when you attempted to negotiate an illegal contract. In other words, you asked some one to cheat (by cutting Ebay out of the loop...you would have never known about the bat if not for Ebay) and then expect that person to be ethical?

Look I'm not judging you, but please take it for what it is....


bigjim - I understand what you are saying, and I respect your opinion. Is it the most ethical thing? Probably not. Does everyone do it? sure they do. I posted the story here not to be judged but merely because I wanted to share the experience. I guess I put more faith in a man's word to another man than a man's online contract with ebay. This time I lost.

Dem's the breaks! But thank you for your opinion.

Jim

bigjimsguitars
09-28-2007, 10:41 AM
bigjim - I understand what you are saying, and I respect your opinion. Is it the most ethical thing? Probably not. Does everyone do it? sure they do. I posted the story here not to be judged but merely because I wanted to share the experience. I guess I put more faith in a man's word to another man than a man's online contract with ebay. This time I lost.

Dem's the breaks! But thank you for your opinion.

Jim


Fair enough, but just because some do it, doesn't promote it to the right thing to do and it's not the American Way, but it will if more do it....

Yes, it's hard not to give in to temptation when there is something that you really want and I too have been on both sides of it, as I have sent emails to sellers asking for their bottom line and as a seller have received my fair share.

So in a sense I'm a hypocrite!

5kRunner
09-28-2007, 10:46 AM
Vintage,
I was on the fence about bidding on it, so don't feel bad. You are right, there was one crappy picture and not a lot of info.

I had also just bought a Derrek Lee bat and knew my wife would freak if I bought another bat so soon after my first purchase. So I was a little hesitant. It was totally my fault, I should have ask for pics first and then decided if I was going to bid. I'm new, so I'm learning.

Like I said, congrats on getting such a great deal.

Vintagedeputy
09-28-2007, 11:17 AM
Fair enough, but just because some do it, doesn't promote it to the right thing to do and it's not the American Way, but it will if more do it....

Yes, it's hard not to give in to temptation when there is something that you really want and I too have been on both sides of it, as I have sent emails to sellers asking for their bottom line and as a seller have received my fair share.

So in a sense I'm a hypocrite!

Bigjim - I wouldnt say that you are a hypocrite. We all have our own moral barometer is to what we feel is right and wrong. I personally see nothing wrong with emailing a seller to try to work out a deal. Others may see differently, and that's their perogative.

Ya know, this hobby can be a true test of your moral standing on various issues. Yesterday, I answered a local ad from a guy selling a Cal Ripken rookie card. He clearly stated in his ad that he wanted $15. I asked for pictures and he sent me pics of the most well centered, sharp cornered Ripken rookie card that I have seen in a long time. I immediately replied back that I wanted it and met him a few hours later. I bought the card and it was every bit as nice as the pics.

Now, if I had that card graded (and I will), its will be worth far more than $15. Did I do anything wrong by only paying $15? Nope. I agreed to his price. Now some people would say that I should tell him its worth at least a hundred and offer him that. I say no. I can live with that.

Vintagedeputy
09-28-2007, 11:20 AM
Vintage,
I was on the fence about bidding on it, so don't feel bad. You are right, there was one crappy picture and not a lot of info.

I had also just bought a Derrek Lee bat and knew my wife would freak if I bought another bat so soon after my first purchase. So I was a little hesitant. It was totally my fault, I should have ask for pics first and then decided if I was going to bid. I'm new, so I'm learning.

Like I said, congrats on getting such a great deal.

5krunner - thank you. If you are ever in Richmond and would like to see the bat in person, please feel free to call on me.

Jim

5kRunner
09-28-2007, 11:42 AM
5krunner - thank you. If you are ever in Richmond and would like to see the bat in person, please feel free to call on me.

Jim
Thanks Jim!

bigjimsguitars
09-28-2007, 11:49 AM
Bigjim - I wouldnt say that you are a hypocrite. We all have our own moral barometer is to what we feel is right and wrong. I personally see nothing wrong with emailing a seller to try to work out a deal. Others may see differently, and that's their perogative.

Ya know, this hobby can be a true test of your moral standing on various issues. Yesterday, I answered a local ad from a guy selling a Cal Ripken rookie card. He clearly stated in his ad that he wanted $15. I asked for pictures and he sent me pics of the most well centered, sharp cornered Ripken rookie card that I have seen in a long time. I immediately replied back that I wanted it and met him a few hours later. I bought the card and it was every bit as nice as the pics.

Now, if I had that card graded (and I will), its will be worth far more than $15. Did I do anything wrong by only paying $15? Nope. I agreed to his price. Now some people would say that I should tell him its worth at least a hundred and offer him that. I say no. I can live with that.

Your Ripken card story is completely different that the ebay thing.

Look, I get as mad as heck at ebay as a seller, but at the same time it offers me an opportunity to sell things in a global market and for that I pay the price of admission.

Would have you be aware or known of the Trammell Bat if not for ebay? My point is simple, to circumvent ebay to do a deal outside of them is morally and ethically wrong no matter how it is spun.

Yes, I used to send emails on items of interest to see if a deal could be struck at a better price for me. But guess what, I never did actually complete a deal as a buyer and now think better of doing so in the future.

Moreover, is it fair to those who stand by and wait to the last minute to bid and then see some seller pull it to sell to someone off/outside of ebay?

Yes there are legit reasons to end and auction early and in my case it's on items that I have on consignment and the owner gets cold feet on me...it makes me look bad.

Another Trammell Bat will pop up and maybe without a nasty crack as the one in question has.

Peace

bigtruck260
09-28-2007, 01:09 PM
Still having issues with this thread. If there seller has set the opening bid on an item, and someone makes an offer to end early, the seller should at LEAST have the courtesy to tell the high bidder and see if he wants to counter. Ebay is not like the classifieds...Classified ads do not charge you after the sale, and bids are usually not made public.

If a buyer places a legit bid on an item and is winning - past the reserve price, then that buyer has staked his claim in that item until he is outbid. If someone sees the item and wants it, they should have to out bid the high bidder in order to win the item. Like I said, the seller who did this to me is blacklisted in my book. I don' care if he is giving stuff away...I will not patronize his stores or his eBay account...and I spend a lot of money.

Vintagedeputy
09-28-2007, 01:33 PM
bigtruck - I think you may have misunderstood. In my example, there was no bid in place. The item had virtually run its course. On the last day of the auction, I contacted the seller and there were still no bids. A few hours after we had an agreement, bids started coming in. If there was already a bid, I wouldnt have bothered contacting the seller and would have placed a bid myself.

Jim

TFig27
09-28-2007, 02:42 PM
can a seller end an auction in the last 24 hours?

Vintagedeputy
09-28-2007, 02:50 PM
I think that you can end an auction anytime by saying that the item is no longer available.

TFig27
09-28-2007, 03:03 PM
here is what ebay says:

Timing Matters
When there are 12 hours or less remaining and the item has a winning bid, including a reserve met bid, sellers cannot make any changes to the listing, including:
<LI style="MARGIN-TOP: 6px">Ending the item early. Sellers may cancel bids, but not end the item unless the item is being sold to the high bidder.
Adding to or changing the item description.did it have a bid on it with 12 hours to go?

Vintagedeputy
09-28-2007, 03:14 PM
The first bid wasnt placed until a few hours before it ended.

b.heagy
09-28-2007, 03:20 PM
I was the high bidder on two items (at different times) from the same seller. The first item had a few bids, the other had only mine. The seller ended both auctions early, one was promised to be relisted later but I never saw it. I no longer bid on that sellers auctions - I don't care how bad I want the item. That seller lost a customer.

bigtruck260
09-28-2007, 03:29 PM
bigtruck - I think you may have misunderstood. In my example, there was no bid in place. The item had virtually run its course. On the last day of the auction, I contacted the seller and there were still no bids. A few hours after we had an agreement, bids started coming in. If there was already a bid, I wouldnt have bothered contacting the seller and would have placed a bid myself.

Jim


No - I understood you, and don't really have any problem with what you did. I was just chiming in rather than start another thread. If there are no bids, never hurts to make an offer.

Dave

bigtruck260
09-28-2007, 03:29 PM
I was the high bidder on two items (at different times) from the same seller. The first item had a few bids, the other had only mine. The seller ended both auctions early, one was promised to be relisted later but I never saw it. I no longer bid on that sellers auctions - I don't care how bad I want the item. That seller lost a customer.


This is where I stand as well...

NYRangers
09-28-2007, 05:21 PM
Of course, you can do whatever you feel is right but you can't pretend that no bids mean no interest by other collectors. Do you personally wait until the end of an auction to bid rather than run the price up in advance of the auction end? If so, then you must know that your off-line dealings are screwing others who do the same. Do you use auction sniping services on ebay? If so, again, you are screwing others who use these services as a last-second bid. Ebay is not a classified ad. I hope to hear more "bad experience" stories from those who treat it that way.

Vintagedeputy
09-28-2007, 09:44 PM
Of course, you can do whatever you feel is right but you can't pretend that no bids mean no interest by other collectors. Do you personally wait until the end of an auction to bid rather than run the price up in advance of the auction end? If so, then you must know that your off-line dealings are screwing others who do the same. Do you use auction sniping services on ebay? If so, again, you are screwing others who use these services as a last-second bid. Ebay is not a classified ad. I hope to hear more "bad experience" stories from those who treat it that way.

I'm sure that there may have been others interested, but if there's no other bids, then there are no other bids. Yes I use snipe services, and with a great degree of success. Sometimes I just try to wrap the item up with a higher degree of certainty by emailing the seller. If you dont agree with my buying practices, so be it. Wishing more "bad experiences" on others or saying that you are happy that my deal fell through just makes you sound bitter.

NYRangers
09-29-2007, 07:04 AM
Oh, I sound "bitter" to you? Now I'm crushed. It matters terribly to me what I sound like to you given your high self-interested morals. You came on here bragging how you break the auction rules on ebay but claim no harm-no foul because no bids had been made (this time). Do as you wish. But don't pretend that others who follow the rules aren't getting screwed.

Vintagedeputy
09-29-2007, 08:35 AM
I didnt come here "bragging about how I break auction rules". I came here to vent that an agreement fell through. As you have seen here, many other members all have admitted that they too, in the past, have emailed sellers in an attempt to purchase an item directly. Its something that we all do. You seem to want make me out to be some moral degenerate because I try to persuade a seller to sell an item directly to me. If following the ebay rules make you feel better about yourself and assure you of a good place in the hereafter, so be it.

You know, I was looking at a Robinson Cano rookie bat on ebay. The bat started to get some bids and I was contemplating how much I might bid for it. When I just checked it, the seller ended the auction early. What do you think happened there? Did the bat disappear? No, someone made him an offer offline and he sold it. Am I upset? No, that's the way the game is played. Sometimes its not about how much you offer for an item but how and when you make the offer.

Maybe you should find out who bought the Cano bat so that you can start a new thread and push your self-righteous ebay moral agenda on them.

NYRangers
09-29-2007, 10:51 AM
I know, rules are for suckers.
This thread (started by you, I only chimed in later) is loaded with you bragging about your brilliant system.
You (and others) are screwing other collectors by short-cutting the auction route.
You said it best, ebay is your personal classified ads.
I'm done with this thread.
Have a nice life.

Vintagedeputy
09-29-2007, 11:04 AM
Well, I'm glad that's over (whew!).

Good riddance.

steeltownjerseys
09-29-2007, 05:48 PM
I find it interesting that this is such a discussion...Ebay is an auction site, If you want something bid....if you don't want to pay that price, wait until the auction ends and contact the seller to make an offer.
I can't believe you are questioning the integrity of a seller that actually did it the correct way!

Vintagedeputy
09-29-2007, 06:06 PM
Its not a matter of questioning the integrity of a seller who did it the "right way".

The issue I had was that I asked him if he would end the auction early and sell the item to me, which he agreed to do (at his price I might add)

He then disregarded our arrangement and let the auction run. That's my issue. I put faith

It seems that everyone has a different opinion on this issue and I respect everyone's opinion. I think now though, that we've hashed this over to death.

bigjimsguitars
09-29-2007, 06:21 PM
Its not a matter of questioning the integrity of a seller who did it the "right way".

The issue I had was that I asked him if he would end the auction early and sell the item to me, which he agreed to do (at his price I might add)

He then disregarded our arrangement and let the auction run. That's my issue. I put faith

It seems that everyone has a different opinion on this issue and I respect everyone's opinion. I think now though, that we've hashed this over to death.

Did you pay immediately? Was it in the last 12 hours of the auction?

The good thing was that there was a frank discussion about this topic and I'm glad that many voiced their displeasure of those who circumvent ebay to make a deal as it cheats all who would have bid.

No bids doesn't mean that it will end without a bid and sellers need to remain calm and let the listing run it's course as it's not only the moral and ethical thing to do, it often leads to even a higher final selling price.

Look if X is willing to pay Y, it only goes to reason that so will Z!

Vintagedeputy
09-29-2007, 06:28 PM
I respect your opinion.

G1X
09-29-2007, 06:37 PM
What I find truly fascinating in this thread is that several folks who have posted seem to think that there is something wrong with sniping. There is nothing illegal about sniping and it is not breaking any ebay rules, and it is certainly not immoral in any regards.

If someone wishes to snipe, what is wrong with that? Why engage in bidding up an item by continually going "back & forth" with others?

The main reason I snipe is that I do not have the time nor the patience to make sure that I am sitting in front of the computer each time an auction of interest is coming to an end. I simply use a snipe service and put in the highest amount that I am willing to pay for an item and walk away from the computer. If I win - great! If not, so be it as it went for more than I was willing to pay.

To imply that sniping is somehow breaking the rules or immoral is perhaps the most illogical thing I have ever read in this forum.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for Atlanta Falcons, WFL, Darren Lewis, and Willie McGee items

bigjimsguitars
09-29-2007, 06:55 PM
What I find truly fascinating in this thread is that several folks who have posted seem to think that there is something wrong with sniping. There is nothing illegal about sniping and it is not breaking any ebay rules, and it is certainly not immoral in any regards.

If someone wishes to snipe, what is wrong with that? Why engage in bidding up an item by continually going "back & forth" with others?

The main reason I snipe is that I do not have the time nor the patience to make sure that I am sitting in front of the computer each time an auction of interest is coming to an end. I simply use a snipe service and put in the highest amount that I am willing to pay for an item and walk away from the computer. If I win - great! If not, so be it as it went for more than I was willing to pay.

To imply that sniping is somehow breaking the rules or immoral is perhaps the most illogical thing I have ever read in this forum.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for Atlanta Falcons, WFL, Darren Lewis, and Willie McGee items

+1

NYRangers
09-29-2007, 07:56 PM
I apologize for breaking my promise not to post further on this thread but I do want to address Mark. For all the reasons that you mention, I use a snipe service too. I only raised sniping in this post to point out that those who make off-line offers to end auctions screw over the many collectors who wait until later in an auction to make a bid (including those of us who use snipe services). Sniping is part of an auction. Trying to beat out other collectors with an off-line offer is not.

Vintagedeputy
09-29-2007, 08:10 PM
I apologize for breaking my promise not to post further on this thread but I do want to address Mark. For all the reasons that you mention, I use a snipe service too. I only raised sniping in this post to point out that those who make off-line offers to end auctions screw over the many collectors who wait until later in an auction to make a bid (including those of us who use snipe services). Sniping is part of an auction. Trying to beat out other collectors with an off-line offer is not.


By breaking your promise not to post in this thread anymore, haven't you put yourself in the same class as those sellers who break their promise to sell their item in the ebay auction?

A promise is a promise, right?

bigjimsguitars
09-29-2007, 08:42 PM
By breaking your promise not to post in this thread anymore, haven't you put yourself in the same class as those sellers who break their promise to sell their item in the ebay auction?

A promise is a promise, right?

Geez, give it a break and stop trying to twist and justify...

Vintagedeputy
09-29-2007, 08:45 PM
bigjim,

I'm done with it, I'm just trying to put a humerous spin on a thread that has gotten way out of control.