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gameused
10-08-2007, 10:58 PM
Yankees lose again, all that money on the Yankees payroll proves you can't buy a championship!! Congrats to the Indians on advancing to the ALCS!

richpick
10-08-2007, 11:04 PM
I am so pleased that the Yankees are out of the playoffs. WILL AROD STAY OR GO? I personally think he is GONE but would love to see him come back with a new manager and not win a World Series again. There is nothing better then seeing the Yankees lose. I am sad to see Joe Torre go out like this he is a class act and George giving ultimatums when they are down 0-2, what a jerk!

Richard

Carlevv
10-08-2007, 11:12 PM
I get a kick out of people when they talk about the money. Money gets you players. What players you get is what matters. Lets look at who Brian Cashman has brought in over the last few years.

Carl Pavano
Randy Johnson
Javier Vasquez
Kevin Brown
Jose Contreras
Johnny Damon
Kyle Farnsworth
Kei Igawa

This list goes on and on. The Yankees are a team, that plays in a stadium, that wears a certain uniform and plays the same game as everyone else. Just because you wear that uniform it doesnt automatically make you a winner. I wish someone would take a hard look at what a mess Brian Cashman has made this team. I blame the players for losing, i blame Joe Torre for the bad moves he maked daily and I blame Brian Cashman for the tired roster he puts together every year. A team with a 200 million dollar payroll should at least have a lefty in the bullpen in the playoffs. Until Roger Clemens was taken off the roster today they didnt. Fire Cashman, fire Torre, get rid of the dead weight on the team and take note of what other teams do. Instead of signing Kei Igawa, sign guys like Paul Bird to shove it up other teams rear ends. O.K. im done now.

gameused
10-08-2007, 11:17 PM
I am so pleased that the Yankees are out of the playoffs. WILL AROD STAY OR GO? I personally think he is GONE but would love to see him come back with a new manager and not win a World Series again. There is nothing better then seeing the Yankees lose. I am sad to see Joe Torre go out like this he is a class act and George giving ultimatums when they are down 0-2, what a jerk!

Richard

I think Arod is definitely leaving, I think George said what he said to get to the players, looks like it didn't work. Joe Torre is a class act and will have no problem landing another job if he chooses to come back.

Bobby

Rboitano
10-08-2007, 11:26 PM
Bobby,
Still have that Helton bat?
Email me at
Rboitano@charter.net
I dont have your email address.

gameused
10-08-2007, 11:50 PM
Robert,

Still have it. Sent you an e-mail.

Thanks, Bobby

DConLA
10-09-2007, 12:02 AM
:D Dam Yankees
thanks again for the BRONKS ZOO!

DAN

gameused
10-09-2007, 02:32 AM
I get a kick out of people when they talk about the money. Money gets you players. What players you get is what matters. Lets look at who Brian Cashman has brought in over the last few years.

Carl Pavano
Randy Johnson
Javier Vasquez
Kevin Brown
Jose Contreras
Johnny Damon
Kyle Farnsworth
Kei Igawa

This list goes on and on. The Yankees are a team, that plays in a stadium, that wears a certain uniform and plays the same game as everyone else. Just because you wear that uniform it doesnt automatically make you a winner. I wish someone would take a hard look at what a mess Brian Cashman has made this team. I blame the players for losing, i blame Joe Torre for the bad moves he maked daily and I blame Brian Cashman for the tired roster he puts together every year. A team with a 200 million dollar payroll should at least have a lefty in the bullpen in the playoffs. Until Roger Clemens was taken off the roster today they didnt. Fire Cashman, fire Torre, get rid of the dead weight on the team and take note of what other teams do. Instead of signing Kei Igawa, sign guys like Paul Bird to shove it up other teams rear ends. O.K. im done now.

Dont forget injury prone Roger Clemens who made 4.5 million a month and was 6-6 for half of the season. Thats money well spent!

whatupyos
10-09-2007, 03:05 AM
How about Giambi? I'm a fan of him...the only modern day Yankee that I am a fan of...because I'm an A's fan...will he be back with the club? I believe he signed a 6 year deal in 2002, so it should be up but I don't know if he has an option for next year?

island_style
10-09-2007, 05:12 AM
Bring Joe Torre to the Dodgers and get rid of Grady Little, former Red Sox manager, and also Ned Colletti (former Giants Assistant GM) and his love fest for ex-Giants and washed up players. Nice thought, but it won't happen as long as Frank McDork, Mr. Boston Real Estate, is the owner. Must be killing Frank to know that one of his former minor league relievers, Matt Smith, bought his aunt's property in Massachusetts for $50,000.00 a few years ago. Turns out that the property has 24 million tons of mica schist (a material used for building patio decks and other construction needs) worth an estimated 2.4 BILLION dollars!

However, I'm surprised that the Dodgers and Yankees actually did a trade this season involving Wilson Betemit and Scott Proctor. Another genius move by Colletti (who bears a striking resemblance and shares the same first name of Homer Simpson's neighbor, Ned Flanders).

Kind Regards,

Ron.

Rsamiano@aol.com

reed1216
10-09-2007, 05:26 AM
I get a kick out of people when they talk about the money. Money gets you players. What players you get is what matters. Lets look at who Brian Cashman has brought in over the last few years.

Carl Pavano
Randy Johnson
Javier Vasquez
Kevin Brown
Jose Contreras
Johnny Damon
Kyle Farnsworth
Kei Igawa

This list goes on and on. The Yankees are a team, that plays in a stadium, that wears a certain uniform and plays the same game as everyone else. Just because you wear that uniform it doesnt automatically make you a winner. I wish someone would take a hard look at what a mess Brian Cashman has made this team. I blame the players for losing, i blame Joe Torre for the bad moves he maked daily and I blame Brian Cashman for the tired roster he puts together every year. A team with a 200 million dollar payroll should at least have a lefty in the bullpen in the playoffs. Until Roger Clemens was taken off the roster today they didnt. Fire Cashman, fire Torre, get rid of the dead weight on the team and take note of what other teams do. Instead of signing Kei Igawa, sign guys like Paul Bird to shove it up other teams rear ends. O.K. im done now.

I hate to say it, as a Yankee fan, but for the most part, this post is spot-on. I would disagree with the comments that were directed toward Torre though. He's 100% class and while he has a few flaws, I can't imagine a better leader for this team. He has the demeanor that's needed to manage a group of all stars and has made things work pretty well. He was regarded as an alsoran of a manager, prior to joining the Yanks and has propelled himself into the Hall of Fame as a manager since.

As for Cashman.... The list of players that were referenced above have been disasterous. There is no question that mistakes have been made. However, also consider the positives. For example, the Yanks have held onto a slew of prospects that have made their way to the bigs. I would point to Cano, who is primed to do amazing things in the future, Melky Cabrera, a solid outfielder, Phil Hughes, who might just develop into a very good ace, as well as some guys who helped them down the stretch and through injuries, early on...

The problem is and has been Steinbrenner. Can you imagine the pressure Cashman has had on him to deal the players I have mentioned for the Ken Phelps' of the MLB down the stretch each year?? Maybe it's time for a change, but if a change is needed, Torre isn't the one who should go. His players respect him and those multi-million dollar players play for him. He's earned their respect and that's a very underappreciated task, given the slew of primadonnas in today's professional sports.

Steinbrenner's not going anywhere, unfortunately. Torre and Cashman will probably be let go. The Yankees will continue to contend for years to come because the stream of revenue they enjoy will make it so. Assuming Cashman is released from his duties, I would be shocked if he doesn't bring a title to whatever team he goes to. As for Torre, he'll probably retire and enjoy the fond memories of managing great players, such as Jeter, Rivera, Clemens, O'Neill, Bernie, Posada and Pettitte. Each of those legends, if I'm not mistaken, were brought (or kept) in by Brian Cashman...

Sorry for the rant, but as much as you guys seem to enjoy piling on our team, I hate the fact that the Yanks did so little this year with all the advantages they had. I suppose that's what comes from being a life-long fan of a team that's owned and run by a meglomaniac...

Props to the club from C-town. They earned it and I hope they CRUSH the hated Red Sox....

Vintagedeputy
10-09-2007, 07:13 AM
Since joining this forum, I have continually been amazed with the knowledge of this board and impressed with the opinions presented. This thread however, has me scratching my head.

I grew up in the shadows of Yankee Stadium. I've been a fan since 1977. I watched Reggie's home runs against the Dodgers. I saw the pine tar game unfold as it happened on tv. I have watched Ron Guidrey, David Cone, Roger Clemens, David Wells et all pitch their asses off. I have seen Derek Jeter, Graig Nettles, Bernie Williams, Willie Randolph, Don Mattingly and others do things on a baseball field that boggles the mind.

Did the Yankees as a team screw the pooch in the post season this year? ....Absolutely.

What we must remember though, is that the players bear the resposibility of production. Arod had a horrible post season, again. He will however win the MVP award as his amazing offensive output is one of the reasons that the Yankees even made it to the post season for the 13 consecutive year.

Jorge Posada who I adore, had a horrible post season. He also put up a season of the most impressive offensive numbers by a catcher in recent memory. Add to that handling an ever changing pitching staff and nursing some raw rookies along.

Derek Jeter looked like he forgot how to hit this post season. He did however have another terrific year at the plate and on the field from the start of the regular season to just before the post season began. He is the Captain of the Bronx Zoo, and has remained a calm and steadying force both on and off the field.

Roger Clemens is done. His elbow and hamstring yearn for days sitting on the couch, not standing on the mound. The Yankees knew that and while they hoped that he had some wins left in that old body, they did not sign him for what he could do on the field, but for the presence he had in the clubhouse. He is one of the main reasons why this team made up a 12 game deficit and was even close to getting to the World Series.

Joe Torre? Nothing bad should be said about Joe. I watched every post season game from start to finish. There was never a "Grady Little should have taken Pedro out sooner" type move. Torre pulled Clemens when it was time. He pulled Wang when it was time. Joe went with his gut and managed the way he has all of those winning years. Sadly, this season it was not enough.

Anyone who knows the Yankees knows that Steinbrenner's comments were done with the intention of moving the spotlight from the lack of production of his players to the Manager/owner fighting circus that the New York media loves. His "fire the manager" mantra is nothing new and it inspires the players to perform and keeps the press off the back of the roster so that players can play. Serious baseball fans see through the smokescreen.

As for Brian Cashman, he is a master at his craft. He is the single winningest General Manager in history. As GM of the Yankees, he has seen the Yankees win 5 pennants and three championships. Sure, we could pick apart Pavano, and Farnsworth and the others who flopped. We could also look at the farm system that produced Melky Cabrera, Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes, Robby Cano, Shelly Duncan, and every other young stud that makes fans hopeful for 2008.

This team went from 14 1/2 back to being a contender. Unfortunately, the "any given Sunday" rule of football came into play here. The Indians hit and hit with risp, the Yankees didnt. Plain and simple.....

bigtime59
10-09-2007, 08:25 AM
The New York Yankee$ are a blight...a stain...a curse upon their entire sport, and I am glad to see them once again eliminated from the playoffs.
Yankee$ fans love...just looooooooooooooove to talk about their 26 Worlds Championships. What they don't love to talk about is the utter economic dominance their team exercised over every other team in baseball from about 1925 onward. The question I always have is: given their circumstances, how did the Yankee$ not win every single World Series after 1930? Answer: occasionally the other team got lucky, and occasionally all of baseball got lucky, and the Yankee$ went through one of their periods of really, really bad ownership (see the CBS era, and several periods of the Madness of King George).
The Yankee$ last "dynasty" of 1996-2000 owes as much to George III's 18-month "lifetime ban from baseball" as it does to anything else.
Now, they're baseball's version of the early-60s Redskins...you remember, the team that could score 72 points...and lose?

Oh, and BTW, their uniforms are ass-ugly.

cjclong
10-09-2007, 08:29 AM
Anyone who followed the Yankees the last few weeks would see that Wang was not pitching well and that Jeter was not hitting like he is capable of. The problems Jeter was having with his knee may have contributed to his slump that carried over into the playoffs. With Wang, its hard to know whether his pitching delivery got out of sync or the league has caught up to him after two years. With our playoff and wild card system a team on a hot streak can now come in and take it all. That is part of what happened in the playoffs, but its obvious the Indians had a better starting rotation. Its difficult to understand what happened with ARod. He obviously has the capacity to hit in the clutch as this season has shown, but for some reason it does seem to vanish in the playoffs. Part of it could be written off as good pitching stops good hitting, but his striking out twice against Byrd when Byrd hadn't struck out anyone else seems to indicate there is something else at work. About the only thing I really thought you could second guess Torre on was starting Wang and there was arguable logic for starting him, it just didn't work. Cashman has made some moves that didn't pan out. I don't know if I would list Randy Johnson as one. When the Yankees beat Boston to win the division by one game a year ago Johnson beat Boston 5 times which was the difference. Torre is a class act and deserves better treatment. But he is in his late 60's. If the Yankees decided to go with a younger manager for the future they should treat Torre with respect in the way they handle it. I've been a Yankee fan for close to 50 years and when I was a kid I hated Bill Mazeroski and the Pirates after they beat the Yankees in the 1960 World Series the way some fans on this site hate the Yankees today. Over the years I've learned to appreciate other teams and players and now if my team gets beat fair and square you acknowledge the other team played better and tip your cap to them as I do now to Cleveland.

Carlevv
10-09-2007, 12:19 PM
Joe Torre is a bad manager! If someone gave me a Clemens, Pettitte, Cone, Wells, and El Duke i could win four world series as a manage too. Give me Stanton, Mendoza, Nelson, Wettland, and Rivera in the bullpen to go with those starters and ill take my chances. What managerial moves has Torre made that have won him anything? This year was a joke! How can you watch Matsui play hurt all September and hit .125 for the month and THEN on the last day of the season get his knee drained? Joe, give your star players some rest!!! How can you watch Jason Giambi limp around the bases for a month and then on a HOMERUN he finally tears his plantar faciata in his foot? If a guy tears something while jogging its proabably a sign that he's been hurt for a while and now it finally popped. How in the world do you play Doug Meintkevich as your playoff first baseman? Dont you want your best offensive line up out there if you arent scoring runs? How do you hit AROD 8th at any point of the playoffs? How do you start Gary Sheffild at first base in the playoffs if he's never played there before? Why do you bring in Joba Chamberlain in the 7th inning with a FIVE and i repeat FIVE run lead? Its because you are selfish and need to win or your fired.

On to Cashman, does everyone remember trading for Randy Johnson from the Diamondbacks? Cashman gave Arizona a list of 5 minor leaguers to choose from. On that list were Dionar Navarro, Robinson Cano, Chein Ming Wang and two others. If the Diamondbacks take Cano and Wang would everyone praise Cashman for not trading their young players? How about Cashman firing the Strenght and Condintioning coach this year? He brought a guy in from some 24 hour fitness and named him the NEW YORK YANKEES strenght and conditioning coach????? Dont you have to be some sort of Olympic stud trainer to train the NEW YORK YANKEES superstars? Well, he fired that guy a month into the season and now that guys assistant is the guy in charge. Shouldnt an organazatoin of the Yankees caliber hire a guy who is qualified? Just a small sample of some moves Cashman makes that make me shake my head.

One more thing, if the Yankees fire Torre DO NOT hire Don Mattingly to be the manager! This guy has no clue how to manage. Bring in a guy who has done it before who doesnt have to learn on the job. This position isnt for a long time Yankee captain to inherit. This job is for a qualified manager who can actually manage and not make bonehead moves. Torre gets a whole lot of credit but if you talk to the players off the record you will find a totally different perspective. I know guys say Torre is class and so on and so forth. You dont know Joe Torre. You hear what Torre says, you hear what some of his players say but dont believe everything you hear. This guy is loyal to Jeter, Posada, and Mariano. The list stops there. Thats not class, class is having a closed door meeting with AROD and not telling Sports Illustrated about the meeting an hour later. I could go on and on but its time for the Yankees to bring in another GM and another manager to make all of you Yankee die hards realize that Torre and Cashman failed since 2000. Like i said, give me the players Torre had in the late 90's and i could have won too. Damn the Yankees get me fired up. FYI, im a HUGE Yankee fan.

3arod13
10-09-2007, 12:26 PM
Joe Torre is a bad manager! If someone gave me a Clemens, Pettitte, Cone, Wells, and El Duke i could win four world series as a manage too. Give me Stanton, Mendoza, Nelson, Wettland, and Rivera in the bullpen to go with those starters and ill take my chances. What managerial moves has Torre made that have won him anything? This year was a joke! How can you watch Matsui play hurt all September and hit .125 for the month and THEN on the last day of the season get his knee drained? Joe, give your star players some rest!!! How can you watch Jason Giambi limp around the bases for a month and then on a HOMERUN he finally tears his plantar faciata in his foot? If a guy tears something while jogging its proabably a sign that he's been hurt for a while and now it finally popped. How in the world do you play Doug Meintkevich as your playoff first baseman? Dont you want your best offensive line up out there if you arent scoring runs? How do you hit AROD 8th at any point of the playoffs? How do you start Gary Sheffild at first base in the playoffs if he's never played there before? Why do you bring in Joba Chamberlain in the 7th inning with a FIVE and i repeat FIVE run lead? Its because you are selfish and need to win or your fired.

On to Cashman, does everyone remember trading for Randy Johnson from the Diamondbacks? Cashman gave Arizona a list of 5 minor leaguers to choose from. On that list were Dionar Navarro, Robinson Cano, Chein Ming Wang and two others. If the Diamondbacks take Cano and Wang would everyone praise Cashman for not trading their young players? How about Cashman firing the Strenght and Condintioning coach this year? He brought a guy in from some 24 hour fitness and named him the NEW YORK YANKEES strenght and conditioning coach????? Dont you have to be some sort of Olympic stud trainer to train the NEW YORK YANKEES superstars? Well, he fired that guy a month into the season and now that guys assistant is the guy in charge. Shouldnt an organazatoin of the Yankees caliber hire a guy who is qualified? Just a small sample of some moves Cashman makes that make me shake my head.

One more thing, if the Yankees fire Torre DO NOT hire Don Mattingly to be the manager! This guy has no clue how to manage. Bring in a guy who has done it before who doesnt have to learn on the job. This position isnt for a long time Yankee captain to inherit. This job is for a qualified manager who can actually manage and not make bonehead moves. Torre gets a whole lot of credit but if you talk to the players off the record you will find a totally different perspective. I know guys say Torre is class and so on and so forth. You dont know Joe Torre. You hear what Torre says, you hear what some of his players say but dont believe everything you hear. This guy is loyal to Jeter, Posada, and Mariano. The list stops there. Thats not class, class is having a closed door meeting with AROD and not telling Sports Illustrated about the meeting an hour later. I could go on and on but its time for the Yankees to bring in another GM and another manager to make all of you Yankee die hards realize that Torre and Cashman failed since 2000. Like i said, give me the players Torre had in the late 90's and i could have won too. Damn the Yankees get me fired up. FYI, im a HUGE Yankee fan.

Carlevv, is arod staying?

bigtruck260
10-09-2007, 12:31 PM
Always kills me when the manager is blamed for the lack of inspired play from the executioners...People complain about Torre, the complain about LaRussa. Who are they gonna bring in to replace the best managers available? Nobody. The players have to play...the manager makes decisions based on tendencies and percentages. If those percentages are skewed by injury or slump - makes things even harder. Oh yeah - THEN your boss tells the world that you are toast if your team fails on you. That makes things easier. If I were Torre, I would walk away and take a nice job in Florida, or Seattle - OR become a roving instructor. They'll come calling again. They always do. Class is class.

cjclong
10-09-2007, 12:57 PM
I'm always interested in the comments of people who have never managed anything and insist they would take this or that team to the World Series if they had the players. Another persons job always looks easy until we have to do it ourselves. Then suddenly there are a lot of tough things we never thought about that have to be mastered. If managing were that easy the teams would hire some of these forum writers to do it and save a hell of a lot of money.

geoff
10-09-2007, 01:54 PM
They do need to sign Posada.I can't see him in another Uniform.It would not look right on him.

3arod13
10-09-2007, 02:00 PM
I don't think the Yankees suck. I'm more disappointed how they didn't show up in the series. Bummed out!

Carlevv
10-09-2007, 02:01 PM
I'm always interested in the comments of people who have never managed anything and insist they would take this or that team to the World Series if they had the players. Another persons job always looks easy until we have to do it ourselves. Then suddenly there are a lot of tough things we never thought about that have to be mastered. If managing were that easy the teams would hire some of these forum writers to do it and save a hell of a lot of money.

First of all for the record i respect any and all opinions here. Right or wrong i respect it because it yours and yours alone.

I happen to know alot of people in the Yankee organaizaton and have been privy to a lot of conversations with staff members, coaches and players on a day to day basis. I make up my own mind as a man but when i hear members of the organization and the writters that are with the team everyday complaining about how things are being run its not far from being the truth. When i say i could manage this team im being sarcastic obviously but what im trying to say is change would be welcomed. How is Joe Torre a class guy? Please explain how being classy has anything to do with winning ball games? Is Tony LaRussa classy? He was found asleep at the wheel drunk in spring training. Didnt he just win a world series the year before? Didnt Ozzie Guillen call a guy from ESPN a queer? Is that being classy? Yea the same year he won a world series right? Classy doesnt win championships. Good managers do, not guys who know what to say and how to say it. Turn the page on the mid 90's Yankee way. You dont have 5 number one starters on the team anymore and you dont have a line up that clicks because they arent all superstars with huge ego's. Change to this team will be the only way they ever win.

Vintagedeputy
10-09-2007, 02:09 PM
Carlevv -

your rant went in so many different directions, I'm not sure where to begin.

joe Torre is a bad manager? oh please!


You said "How in the world do you play Doug Meintkevich as your playoff first baseman? Dont you want your best offensive line up out there if you arent scoring runs?"

Are you saying that you'd rather have Giambi out there? Let's look at the numbers.

Doug Mientkiewicz - 72 games, 166 AB's, 26 runs, 46 hits, 12 doubles, 5 homers, 16 BB, 23 Strike outs, a .277 BA and a .440 slugging %

Jason Giambi - 83 games, 254 AB's, 31 runs, 60 hits, 8 doubles, 14 homers, 40 BB, 66 Strike outs, .236 BA and a .433 slugging %

Now, you are talking about offensive numbers so I wont even argue how Minty is a far superior fielder. Giambi is a defensive liability, especially in late innings.
In just 12 more games, Giambi amassed nearly triple the number of strikeouts compared to Mientkiewicz. Minty also had a batting average that was 40 points higher as well as a higher slugging percentage and more doubles. Giambi had 14 more hits in 11 more games, which is just about a 1 for 4 every day. Is a 1 for 4 effort good for an "offensive powerhouse" such as Giambi? Sure he had a bunch of home runs, but day in and day out, Doug is a better choice. Consider too, that Doug was knocked flat on his ass in a game and injured which accounted for his little playing time.

You also said "How do you start Gary Sheffild at first base in the playoffs if he's never played there before?"

Now, I watched all of the Yankees play off games this year and can't seem to recall Gary Sheffield playing first base.....could that be due to the fact that he now plays for Detroit?

Now you complained that Cashman offered Cano, Wang et al in the Johnson deal. Well, you have to give quality sometimes to get quality. Its the "dont trade prospects" thinking that kept Kevin Maas here.

The Yankees tried and they failed. No shame in that. No need to point fingers and assign blame.

Carlevv
10-09-2007, 02:10 PM
As far as AROD staying, I think he stays. The Yankees will have to pay what everyone else is offering though. Baseball is a buisiness and why should a guy not get a market value for his services. Remember the Yankees are a BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY so please save all the comments about him taking less to stay in New York. Of course AROD could leave to go play in Anaheim and live by the beach with only one newspaper following the team. If thats what he chooses to do i think it hurts his legacy. The Yankees will put money on the table every year to get the best players money can buy and im not sure Anaheim cant guarentee that to him. With the young Yankee pitchers showing promise i think AROD will look at that as a huge reason for him staying. Who wants to go into the hall of fame with an Angels hat on anyways?

Carlevv
10-09-2007, 02:18 PM
Carlevv -

your rant went in so many different directions, I'm not sure where to begin.

joe Torre is a bad manager? oh please!


You said "How in the world do you play Doug Meintkevich as your playoff first baseman? Dont you want your best offensive line up out there if you arent scoring runs?"

Are you saying that you'd rather have Giambi out there? Let's look at the numbers.

Doug Mientkiewicz - 72 games, 166 AB's, 26 runs, 46 hits, 12 doubles, 5 homers, 16 BB, 23 Strike outs, a .277 BA and a .440 slugging %

Jason Giambi - 83 games, 254 AB's, 31 runs, 60 hits, 8 doubles, 14 homers, 40 BB, 66 Strike outs, .236 BA and a .433 slugging %

Now, you are talking about offensive numbers so I wont even argue how Minty is a far superior fielder. Giambi is a defensive liability, especially in late innings.
In just 12 more games, Giambi amassed nearly triple the number of strikeouts compared to Mientkiewicz. Minty also had a batting average that was 40 points higher as well as a higher slugging percentage and more doubles. Giambi had 14 more hits in 11 more games, which is just about a 1 for 4 every day. Is a 1 for 4 effort good for an "offensive powerhouse" such as Giambi? Sure he had a bunch of home runs, but day in and day out, Doug is a better choice. Consider too, that Doug was knocked flat on his ass in a game and injured which accounted for his little playing time.

You also said "How do you start Gary Sheffild at first base in the playoffs if he's never played there before?"

Now, I watched all of the Yankees play off games this year and can't seem to recall Gary Sheffield playing first base.....could that be due to the fact that he now plays for Detroit?

Now you complained that Cashman offered Cano, Wang et al in the Johnson deal. Well, you have to give quality sometimes to get quality. Its the "dont trade prospects" thinking that kept Kevin Maas here.

The Yankees tried and they failed. No shame in that. No need to point fingers and assign blame.

Sorry for the scrambled rant but lets call a spade a spade here first of all. If you are pitching for the Indians who would you rather face, Meintcevich or Giambi? Dont even answer that. Dont start throwing numbers around. No matter what a guy has done in the past a presence in the line up is way bigger than numbers in the past. Yes Giambi is a libility in the field but thats why you put in Minty in the late innnings. And one more thing about numbers, Giambi's numbers began to go down after he was hurt and Torre kept running him out there. Those numbers are a reflection of that.

Sheffield played first base in the playoffs last year FYI.

You say you have to trade quality to get quality? How is Randy Johnson quality? Did you see him pitch in pinstripes? I saw Sandie Johnson, not Randy Johnson.

bigtruck260
10-09-2007, 02:27 PM
Class defines character. Both Torre and LaRussa have seen some great successes (and dismal failures) - Everyone has flaws, but the one thing that separates Torre and LaRussa from many other guys is their accountability - even when the team implodes because the owners did not want to spend money (Dewitt, Kip Wells) OR the team has trouble getting past the first round (Cashman, elderly Yanks). The fact that Torre stayed around this year has to give him cred. among his staff... a lesser man would flush himself mid-season.

Carlevv
10-09-2007, 02:34 PM
Class defines character. Both Torre and LaRussa have seen some great successes (and dismal failures) - Everyone has flaws, but the one thing that separates Torre and LaRussa from many other guys is their accountability - even when the team implodes because the owners did not want to spend money (Dewitt, Kip Wells) OR the team has trouble getting past the first round (Cashman, elderly Yanks). The fact that Torre stayed around this year has to give him cred. among his staff... a lesser man would flush himself mid-season.

Give me 6 million a year like Torre makes and ill stick around too.

Vintagedeputy
10-09-2007, 02:40 PM
Sorry for the scrambled rant but lets call a spade a spade here first of all. If you are pitching for the Indians who would you rather face, Meintcevich or Giambi? Dont even answer that. Dont start throwing numbers around. No matter what a guy has done in the past a presence in the line up is way bigger than numbers in the past. Yes Giambi is a libility in the field but thats why you put in Minty in the late innnings. And one more thing about numbers, Giambi's numbers began to go down after he was hurt and Torre kept running him out there. Those numbers are a reflection of that.

Sheffield played first base in the playoffs last year FYI.

You say you have to trade quality to get quality? How is Randy Johnson quality? Did you see him pitch in pinstripes? I saw Sandie Johnson, not Randy Johnson.

You cant talk about being an offensive force and not throw numbers around.

Sheffield was last year, we were discussing this year.

How is Randy Johnson quality - lets see, 284 career wins, a 34-19 record as a Yankee (2 17 win seasons!) with over 200 innings pitched each season and an average just under 200 strikeouts per season as a Yankee. Your right, who needs that?

cjclong
10-09-2007, 02:48 PM
Unfortunately class doesn't win ballgames. But isn't it nice when someone with class is a winner instead of some first class jerk. Torre was able to deflect a lot the media hype that goes with playing in New York and allow his teams to concentrate on baseball. That's no small achievement. And it will be something anyone who replaces him will have to master.

Carlevv
10-09-2007, 02:52 PM
You cant talk about being an offensive force and not throw numbers around.

Sheffield was last year, we were discussing this year.

How is Randy Johnson quality - lets see, 284 career wins, a 34-19 record as a Yankee (2 17 win seasons!) with over 200 innings pitched each season and an average just under 200 strikeouts per season as a Yankee. Your right, who needs that?

Wow if those numbers are right thats surprising he did that as a Yankee. Why is it that he left such a bad taste in everyones mouth? I have only bad memories of Sandie as a Yankee.

Carlevv
10-09-2007, 02:54 PM
Unfortunately class doesn't win ballgames. But isn't it nice when someone with class is a winner instead of some first class jerk. Torre was able to deflect a lot the media hype that goes with playing in New York and allow his teams to concentrate on baseball. That's no small achievement. And it will be something anyone who replaces him will have to master.

That was Torre's bet quality hands down.

richpick
10-09-2007, 03:13 PM
As I have stated before I dislike the Yankees as I grew up a Dodger fan and hated the way the Yankees tried to buy championships but I must admit it would be very boring without them. As much as I hate to admit it I need the Yankees, well I need the Yankees so I can hate them. It gives me pleasure to see them fail. You see if they win I can say "well look at their payroll they should win every game" but if they lose oh the satisfaction. Anyone with me?

Richard

yanks12025
10-09-2007, 03:22 PM
First i would like to say that i'm a die hard yankee fan since 2003 but first game i went to was 1999 or 1998. Now some may say im a frontrunner or something but im only 17 which would make me 12 ,13 at the time when i became one. Also if you know me in real life you would know i LOVE the yank's.
Now to the list.
1st Joe Torre will becoming back next year for the yanks, i believe George said what he said to get the team to win.
2nd A-rod will be back for the yanks next year, someone told me he said he will opt out if Joe is fired and George wants a-rod to stay.
3rd I know the yanks have the highest payroll but its because of what the players are getting payed. Yankees have more HOME GROWN players on the field(More than 50 games played) than WHO. YES THE RED SOX'S Lets go through them. Not pitchers
Yank's:Jeter(Gets payed alot but home grown,Cano,Jorge(payed alot), Melky.
Now the red sox's:Dustin that's IT. Don't say Jason because you guys traded for him when he was in the minors.

whatupyos
10-09-2007, 03:41 PM
Yanks--so what happened before you were 12? You hated baseball or something? Did you have a favorite baseball team before that? And my favorite question...are you from NY? I can't stand people who say they are Yankees fans and have never set foot in NY. If you're from there or close to it, okay fine, but if you recently became one and didn't grow up one...and I mean grow up since you were say 5...than you're a front runner no matter what team you're a fan of. It's too easy to say, I'm a fan of team X if you're in your teens and pic a winning team. That goes for Sox fans or anyone else....I can't stand unloyal fans.

I just love it when the Yankees don't win because of their inflated payroll. Its nice to see that one can go out, over spend and think they have a World Series winner and yet, you can't buy a championship. Not when you have players that choke in big time situations.

Where is that Camero guy who had the thread about how AROD was going to go off the charts with his numbers this year?? I'll say he did improve from last year...he got one little RBI...first one since 2004 in the post season. Last year was 1-17....this year 4-15 1 HR 1 RBI and how many K's...5!!!!!!! So looks like I was right...he did turn from AROD to KROD!!!

yanks12025
10-09-2007, 04:06 PM
Whatupyos
Yes i do live in ny ,up past Albany.

Let me ask you this. If you have the money to buy a lamborghini or some fast car, why would you buy a piece of crap? You would go with the better/nicer item because you have the money. It's just like baseball if you have the money why would you buy the bad players and not the good ones.

camarokids
10-09-2007, 04:55 PM
Where is that Camero guy who had the thread about how AROD was going to go off the charts with his numbers this year?? I'll say he did improve from last year...he got one little RBI...first one since 2004 in the post season. Last year was 1-17....this year 4-15 1 HR 1 RBI and how many K's...5!!!!!!! So looks like I was right...he did turn from AROD to KROD!!!

I usually root for the underdog . For I really don't have a favorite team besides the Devil Rays . It currently is way too disastrous for ones health and mental well being to be get serious about the Devil Rays . Hell uv a difference between the Devil Rays and Diamondbacks .

I didn't know the whole Yankees team wouldn't show up for the playoffs :eek:. I said I was rooting for AROD to do good cause he gets such a hard time from fans and media . I was hoping he would do good . I usually like to see New York lose , like some of you's. But I wanted AROD to do good this year . Just before Arod hit his HR (in game 4), I said out loud he was going to hit one , cause just prior to that , the announcer had said Arod had no RBI's in the series.......can't argue with you on the KROD......Even Jeter hit into a Double Play with the bases loaded. Just wasn't meant to be........

The past couple of years I rooted for both Sox teams to win the WS .

Also I wanted the Cubs to win it all this year , cause it has been a long, long time for them . But we know how that ended :(...........

Vintagedeputy
10-09-2007, 05:10 PM
Wow if those numbers are right thats surprising he did that as a Yankee. Why is it that he left such a bad taste in everyones mouth? I have only bad memories of Sandie as a Yankee.

Feel free to check behind me but that's the numbers that I found.

Carlevv
10-09-2007, 07:36 PM
Feel free to check behind me but that's the numbers that I found.
I believe you, I myself never got comfortable watching him out there. He sucked when it counted.

Nathan
10-09-2007, 11:43 PM
As a fairly neutral observer...

For all of his alleged "clutch ability", Jeter was 3/17 with no extra-base hits, no walks, and three GIDP. That's pathetic, especially from a #2 hitter and especially from someone who has this playoff reputation.

I wonder how long Chien-Ming Wang will pitch in the majors. He puts a ton of balls into play, and as the Yankees defense continues to erode from age and picking up "big names" such as the weak-armed Damon, those will turn into runs more and more often. Bill James pointed out that in the annals of MLB history, there has been exactly ONE pitcher who has had a long career with a K/9 ratio of less than 4.5. Wang has had:

2005 -- 3.64 K/9
2006 -- 3.13 K/9
2007 -- 4.696 K/9

I did tell one of my NY-based friends (who's a Mets fan, but that's beside the point) that I hoped Rodriguez would go 15/15 with 15 HRs and see the Indians get the sweep. Of course, 15 HRs in three games still wouldn't shut up the Skip Baylesses of the world

skyking26
10-10-2007, 05:34 AM
I think alot of people enjoy, like me, watching the Yankees lose because of their dominance in the payroll dept which leads to the ability to buy the best. Their loss proves that money isn't everything, which gives us a warm fuzzy feeling. I have always felt that the Yankees have had a holyier than thou attitude and I enjoy watching them lose. Hope the tribe goes all the way, 1948 was a long time ago...

island_style
10-11-2007, 04:24 AM
And my favorite question...are you from NY? I can't stand people who say they are Yankees fans and have never set foot in NY.

It IS possible for someone to be a Yankees fan outside of the New York area. My dad lived in Hawaii and was a Yankees fan since the 50's as a teen. He never did step foot in New York, although his dream trip was to see a game at Yankee Stadium. In fact, he was considering a Steiner Meet and Greet session with Jeter back in July, but health issues prevented him from traveling long distances. He enjoyed their World Series championships and also endured the Yankees lean years and post-season woes all the way until he died this past August. He was buried with a Yankees cap and jersey in his casket.

Kind Regards,

Ron.

Rsamiano@aol.com

BULBUS
10-13-2007, 08:48 AM
gameused, looks like the red suks are going to prove that money can buy a championship.