Ethical question for collectors

[whatupyos]

So I want to pose this question and am open to how you all feel. What do you think about obtaining game used pieces that you know to be stolen? After the OJ Simpson memorabilia sting I have learned two of the people involved were busted for receiving stolen property at one point in time. Personally I couldn't obtain a piece if I knew the item to be stolen from the player or another collector. If that doesn't bother you, thats totally cool, I respect that I'm just wondering what you think.

Aaron

[byergo]

Re: Ethical question for collectors

There is nothing "cool" or to be respected about knowingly harboring stolen property. It makes you a criminal that should be locked up. Unethical, immoral, illegal period.

[Yankwood]

Re: Ethical question for collectors

There is nothing "cool" or to be respected about knowingly harboring stolen property. It makes you a criminal that should be locked up. Unethical, immoral, illegal period.

How much of this stuff that we as a collecting community now own can we safely say is NOT stolen? I have not personally stolen anything I own, but most of it might be. I really can't say...

[bigjimsguitars]

Re: Ethical question for collectors

I once owned a Jose Canseco Bat (Rawlings Big Stick) that I tried to get him to sign at Angels Stadium and he grabbed it out of my hands and said it was stolen from him...

I explained how a got it and he reluctantly gave it back to me, but without signing it.

Wasn't sure what to believe as I bought it from a SCD advertised auction back in around 1992...

I've since sold the bat....

If I knew something was stolen I would want no part of it...but one does have to wonder how much of what we collect is pilfered from the club house?

[whatupyos]

Re: Ethical question for collectors

Byergo...perhaps cool was the wrong word to use, I was just trying to pose my question so as to let others know that I'm not here to judge them if they happen to disagree with me. It bothers me that there are people who obtain stuff that is known to be stolen. I think its wrong personally. It also makes me wonder when you see people say that an item was obtained through an impecable source, who that impecable source might be? I would think that if it was obtained through a contact that in MLB/team that the item would come with a team LOA...if it doesn't then I wonder if it is taken without consent? I remember one thread a while back when someone said that a team has cameras in the clubhouse to deter sticky fingers. I know if I was a player I'd be peeved if some how, my bats/jerseys/whatever was mysteriously vanishing into thin air.

[OaklandAsFan]

Re: Ethical question for collectors

How much of this stuff that we as a collecting community now own can we safely say is NOT stolen? I have not personally stolen anything I own, but most of it might be. I really can't say...

I can honestly say that 100% of my collection is not stolen since 95% of it was handed to me by the player themselves and the other 5% were gotten from the bat boys after games when they broke.

[thomecollector]

Re: Ethical question for collectors

I can honestly say that 100% of my collection is not stolen since 95% of it was handed to me by the player themselves and the other 5% were gotten from the bat boys after games when they broke.

Realistictly, probably 60% of the game used out there was probably obtained under questionable circumstances. Before Stiener,etc. A lot of these guys probably had an insider who aquired (stole? ) things out of the clubhouse. I personally have never knowingly bought anything that I knew was hot. But, who's to say that bat, or glove you bought wasn't originally stolen. Think about it. There is much more demand than supply ,isn't there? Just my 2 cents.

[bigtime59]

Re: Ethical question for collectors

Or, what do you do when you find out--after the fact--something you've purchased was stolen?

[ironmanfan]

Re: Ethical question for collectors

Or, what do you do when you find out--after the fact--something you've purchased was stolen?

Actually this happened to me about a year ago. You may recall it making the news that an Orioles employee was stealing items out of Camden Yards such as game used bases from Cal Ripken's last games plus other things such as Stadium Giveaway Bobbleheads, etc. & selling them on eBay.

I bought a Ripken MLB certified game used base from this guy on eBay (certainly in good faith), and found out about 4 months later that it was "hot" (once the story hit the wires). I contacted a guy I know in the Orioles front offices and offered to return it (even though I paid over $1500 for it), but they said I could keep it since they were seeking some sort of financial resitution from the former employee.

[godwulf]

Re: Ethical question for collectors

One MLB team equipment man was fired a few years ago for selling stuff to a certain "warehouse" in Oregon, which I guess had been going on for some time. As for the bats, etc, that many of us get from batboys and clubhouse guys, I guess ultimately we only have their word for it that they obtained the things legitimately.

I know a guy who had a number of Vida Blue jerseys, which he bought from a well-known friend of the team owner, from whom he'd gotten them - I mean, pretty rock solid ownership - and he got them signed by Blue at a show...but then VB came over and started giving him a hard time about how the jerseys were his, had been stolen from him, etc, and I guess it got pretty ugly.

[bigjimsguitars]

Re: Ethical question for collectors

Realistictly, probably 60% of the game used out there was probably obtained under questionable circumstances. Before Stiener,etc. A lot of these guys probably had an insider who aquired (stole? ) things out of the clubhouse. I personally have never knowingly bought anything that I knew was hot. But, who's to say that bat, or glove you bought wasn't originally stolen. Think about it. There is much more demand than supply ,isn't there? Just my 2 cents.

True.

To this day I will never know if that Canseco bat was stolen or not, but the fact that Jose gave it back to me put it in a different league...however, he never did sign it.

If I knowingly had something that was proven to be stolen, I wouldn't want it, period....

[Yankwood]

Re: Ethical question for collectors

If I knew, and I mean KNEW, for a fact that something was stolen, it would probably be my MOST prized possession because then I would also know that it was real. I flat out refuse to take the high ground on this one. If anyone has anything Yankees or Rochester Red Wings related and they can prove to me that they stole it, pleae email me at tlucas56@yahoo.com. I am definitely interested in buying.

[Birdbats]

Re: Ethical question for collectors

I can honestly say that 100% of my collection is not stolen since 95% of it was handed to me by the player themselves and the other 5% were gotten from the bat boys after games when they broke.

I guess you could get technical and say the players and bat boys who gave you those items didn't pay for them; the team did. Those items were not theirs to give away, so they're 100% "stolen" in a sense (unless there's a team policy that encourages players and bat boys to give stuff away). If I stood outside my employer's place of business and gave away office supplies, I'd probably get fired, if not arrested. I'm not calling anyone unethical, especially you, OaklandAsFan (please don't take my post the wrong way). Just trying to point out the gray area that exists in the hobby.

Granted, such "gifting" is a far cry from stuff that gets pilfered out of clubhouses and passed out the back door. Most of us have items that were given to us by players or bat boys, or given to someone else and then purchased by us later. I'm sure some team owners aren't thrilled with employees who give stuff away -- that prevents them from selling those items and making money (for themselves or charity).

Might be easier to make a list of what qualifies as "not stolen" -- direct team sales, team auctions, player-direct sales (from players who buy their own equipment, like Griffey or Bonds), charity auctions where items were donated by teams, gifts from team officials, purchases from team-contracted vendors (MeiGray, Steiner), etc.

[OaklandAsFan]

Re: Ethical question for collectors

I understand what you are saying BB. I will say this which actually may prove your point that as of 2002 the bat boys were no longer allowed to give out the broken bats after games in Oakland. this was around the same time that the A's started to have a community fund auction during every weekend home game. Prior to 02 though the bat boys were allowed to give out the bats that were broke unless the player specifically asked for them for personal reasons.
As far as players or teams purchasing stuff I have always wondered about that. How do you know who is actually paying for these things? is it safe to assume that a majority of players on the major league staff have their stuff bought for them by the team? what about Pro stock bats in the minors and minor league players using them or bats with their names on them. For example i know there are some AAA players right now in the Arizona Fall League using pro stock bats however you have a guy like Matt Laporta who didn't play above A ball last year and he has bats with his name on them how does all that work? I am pretty sure that fielding gloves are given to the players by the company, what about batting gloves do they get a certain amount free then the team or the player must pay for them? are cleats given to the player or does the team buy them for the player?
just some questions sorry to dump all that on you

[10thMan]

Re: Ethical question for collectors

I would not want an item if I knew it was stolen. Not for any price, it`s just not worth it to me anyway. This does make me wonder though, buying from the public etc...Maybe that`s why some players get upset when you bring them a nice used Bat etc...I dont know what`s worse, STOLEN or "DOCTORED" Equip.???
Sean