Why does this Packers jersey have custom tags from L.A.?

[both-teams-played-hard]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-86-Green-Bay-Packers-Game-Worn-Used-Jersey_W0QQitemZ330189067996QQihZ014QQcategoryZ86829QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Not at all am I doubting this shirt's authenticity. Looks nice. The Sand Knit tags appear to be from the late 60s-early 70s. Beautiful durene. But why in the world would there be custom tags from a Los Angeles distributor (Frederick's of Culver City)? Was there a movie from this era that featured the Packers. Any scenes from the "Paper Lion" against the Pack? Too late to be from SB I (played in L.A.). What does this Green Bay jersey have to do with Los Angeles? Any guesses are appreciated!

[beantown]

Re: Why does this Packers jersey have custom tags from L.A.?

Hello....BTPH....I am the one selling this jersey on Ebay and that tagging has become a mystery. I initally had the same thoughts as you and saw this listing on the MEARS website...

http://www.mearsonline.com/forsale/item/?id=305

Believe it or not, Lou Lampson caught the fact that this jersey could not be from the late 1960's, due to the fact that the jersey has tag which state the Packers are in the National Football Conference (NFC), which was formulated after the merger of the AFL-NFL in 1970. Which is why I listed the jersey as a c. 1970 jersey. Also, I have spoken with Troy from MEARS and they are attemepting to contact the purchaser of the Packers jersey they sold and inform them of the mis-information on their original COA. Hope this helps....

[jdr3]

Re: Why does this Packers jersey have custom tags from L.A.?

Hey Beantown,

A few months ago you posted some nice pics of jerseys from the football hall of fame. They are not coming up at this time-could you repost some please? Especially the one of the Charley Taylor jersey?

Thanks,

Jim

[beantown]

Re: Why does this Packers jersey have custom tags from L.A.?

jdr3...here you go...also some Packers photos from the HOF, for a comparison to the one I have on Ebay now....

[jdr3]

Re: Why does this Packers jersey have custom tags from L.A.?

Thank you!

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: Why does this Packers jersey have custom tags from L.A.?

Hello....BTPH....I am the one selling this jersey on Ebay and that tagging has become a mystery. I initally had the same thoughts as you and saw this listing on the MEARS website...

http://www.mearsonline.com/forsale/item/?id=305

Believe it or not, Lou Lampson caught the fact that this jersey could not be from the late 1960's, due to the fact that the jersey has tag which state the Packers are in the National Football Conference (NFC), which was formulated after the merger of the AFL-NFL in 1970. Which is why I listed the jersey as a c. 1970 jersey. Also, I have spoken with Troy from MEARS and they are attemepting to contact the purchaser of the Packers jersey they sold and inform them of the mis-information on their original COA. Hope this helps....

Thanks for the information, but it doesn't help. The MEARS information is wrong. "Frederick's of Hollywood"? Fredericks in Culver is something different. Frederick (Hollywood) is a first name. They don't never, haven't, won't, will not ever, ever, ever sell, customize or distribute football jerseys.
William Fredericks( Culver City) was a long-time Los Angeles sporting goods dealer. If an "authenticator" is going to make this blatant and laughable an error; then I will consider ALL of the surrounding data as bumpkus.
Beantown
Your jersey is nice. I still would like to know why the Packers would need a West Coast distributor? The MEARS example adds credence to your shirt...but "Frederick's of Hollywood"? Yes, I will spare readers any photo-shop creation.
Yes the NFC, puts it at no later than 1970. Well after, any GB early SB appearances. Just very curious. "West coast distributor" DOES NOT cut it for me. Was there a movie with the Packers from this era?

[beantown]

Re: Why does this Packers jersey have custom tags from L.A.?

BTPH...I don't have any answers as to why the Fredericks tag is on the jersey...pure speculation, but is it possible the jersey is a carry over from the 1960's and later Sand Knit tags were added by the Packers to have uniformity with the new style tags after the AFL-NFL merger???

[cohibasmoker]

Re: Why does this Packers jersey have custom tags from L.A.?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-86-Green...QQcmdZViewItem
Not at all am I doubting this shirt's authenticity. Looks nice. The Sand Knit tags appear to be from the late 60s-early 70s. Beautiful durene. But why in the world would there be custom tags from a Los Angeles distributor (Frederick's of Culver City)? Was there a movie from this era that featured the Packers. Any scenes from the "Paper Lion" against the Pack? Too late to be from SB I (played in L.A.). What does this Green Bay jersey have to do with Los Angeles? Any guesses are appreciated!

BTPH, Was 1970 the first year all of the NFL teams started wearing names on the back of their jerseys?

And, the first thing that caught my eye was the little white tag in the collar. I checked my vintage Sand-knit jerseys and none of them have that tiny flag tag denoting the size of the jersey. You probably have owned and seen way more Sand-knit jerseys that I but let me ask you, do any of your Sand-knit jerseys have a similar tag?

Jim

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: Why does this Packers jersey have custom tags from L.A.?

Beantown
I know a couple of Packers collectors who have contacted you about the jersey....they STILL want it! They should...it is an absolute football relic! I was just curious as to why a jersey would go from Wisconsin to California back to Wisconsin? I feel MEARS' example of a road white helps your cause. C'mon... Frederick's of Hollywood...a jersey distributor? That's comedy with comic value. Its a mistake...but it is bad form to assume.
I hope you make a grip on this jersey. It's super nice and I would bid if I could afford it.
Frederick's sells drawers and Fredericks used to sell sporting goods.

Back to the original question:
Why would the Packers use a L.A. distributor in 1970?

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: Why does this Packers jersey have custom tags from L.A.?

BTPH, Was 1970 the first year all of the NFL teams started wearing names on the back of their jerseys?

And, the first thing that caught my eye was the little white tag in the collar. I checked my vintage Sand-knit jerseys and none of them have that tiny flag tag denoting the size of the jersey. You probably have owned and seen way more Sand-knit jerseys that I but let me ask you, do any of your Sand-knit jerseys have a similar tag?

Jim

I have seen the small size flag tag in 60s-70s-80s Packers jerseys. So, that is right on. Some teams added NOBs in 1970, not sure about the Packers.

[beantown]

Re: Why does this Packers jersey have custom tags from L.A.?

Beantown
I know a couple of Packers collectors who have contacted you about the jersey....they STILL want it! They should...it is an absolute football relic! I was just curious as to why a jersey would go from Wisconsin to California back to Wisconsin? I feel MEARS' example of a road white helps your cause. C'mon... Frederick's of Hollywood...a jersey distributor? That's comedy with comic value. Its a mistake...but it is bad form to assume.
I hope you make a grip on this jersey. It's super nice and I would bid if I could afford it.
Frederick's sells drawers and Fredericks used to sell sporting goods.

Back to the original question:
Why would the Packers use a L.A. distributor in 1970?

BTPH....you bring up a lot of good points/questions...I simply dont have any answers....who know's what happened 35+ years ago...I hope this jersey ends up in the hands of a serious Packers collector as that's where this belongs. Who has access to the MEARS website, where they broke down the history of the Packers uniform? Maybe that can help?

[G1X]

Re: Why does this Packers jersey have custom tags from L.A.?

BTPH,
That information is very educational and helpful in clarifying the difference between Fredericks Sporting Goods and Frederick's of Hollywood. Thanks so much. From the tagging, the jersey appears to be circa 1970 to 1972 based on the following:
1. Before 1970, the small Sand Knit "medal" logo had a black ball with the top part of the metal being gold. The number of the size was gold stitching, and there were 3 lines of laundry instructions that were underlined. See first photo below of pre-1970 white Detroit Lions durene jersey.
2. Somewhere around 1970 or 1971, they reversed the thread color on the medal (gold ball with the top part of the medal being black) and the number of the size was changed to black stitching. See second photo of early 1970s purple Minnesota Vikings durene jersey (note that there is no "exclusive" tag) and third photo of a circa 1972/73 blue Detroit Lions durene jersey (example of tagging on jerseys with crotchpiece).
3. Circa 1972 or 1973, the tagging changed again. There were now 4 lines of laundry instructions that were no longer underlined. See fourth photo of 1973/1974 blue Detroit Lions durene jersey.

beantown,
I have never seen an example of teams inserting tags back in that era. Not to say that it is not possible, but it would be surprising as things were a lot diferent back then. Of the durene jerseys in my collection and the ones I have seen over the years, the only alterations I have observed on 1960s Sand Knit durene jerseys that were recycled for use in the nameplate era was the slight lowering of the back numbers to make room for the nameplate.

Jim,
I am assuming that the Charley Taylor jersey is from his last years in DC. I seem to recall the 'Skins switching to this particular number style around 1976 (Taylor was injured in their first preseason game that year at Atlanta and missed the season), and then he played one more year (1977) before retiring. Please let me know if you have ever seen a 1976 or 1977 Washington jersey with:
1. This particular style of Sand Knit tagging.
2. Name screened directly on the back of the jersey.

Thanks!

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[G1X]

Re: Why does this Packers jersey have custom tags from L.A.?

P.S. All NFC teams added name-on-back in 1970.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[beantown]

Re: Why does this Packers jersey have custom tags from L.A.?

G1X...hello...the reason I thought it maybe a carry over 1960's jersey is from the red size 48 flag tag in the neck...wasn't that predominatly there on 1960's Packers jerseys? Would the red size flag tag in the neck be there for a 1970 or later Packers jersey?

[G1X]

Re: Why does this Packers jersey have custom tags from L.A.?

beantown,

I have never had a Packers durene jersey from the early 1970s, so I cannot say for certain. According to Troy Kinunen's extensive Packers jersey article in Sports Collectors Digest earlier this year, the 1970 Packers durene jerseys did have the red size flag tag in the neck.

As for the discussion on the Fredericks tagging, I can think of several plausible scenarios of how Green Bay could end up having a store in California supply their uniforms. It could have been a situation where someone with the team had ties (friend, family, etc.) with Fredericks, or perhaps the person responsible for the orders was previously employed by the Rams or another team that used Fredericks. Back then, football wasn't a full-time job, so maybe a Packers employee (or even a player or former player) had an off-season job as a sales rep for Fredericks.

This might be something that we will never know.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net