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sammy
02-07-2006, 12:07 AM
Any comments? :rolleyes:

http://cgi.ebay.com/UDA-Mickey-Mantle-Autographed-Baseball-Auto-Yankees_W0QQitemZ8762687571QQcategoryZ27260QQssPag eNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

sammy
02-07-2006, 10:04 AM
http://i21.ebayimg.com/05/i/06/2b/4d/5a_3.JPG

Yankwood
02-07-2006, 10:22 AM
Any comments? :rolleyes:

http://cgi.ebay.com/UDA-Mickey-Mantle-Autographed-Baseball-Auto-Yankees_W0QQitemZ8762687571QQcategoryZ27260QQssPag eNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemYes, I believe it says "Mickey Mantle"

Swoboda4
02-07-2006, 11:03 AM
This is a very good seller but he mostly auctions cards. To be honest the signature looks like there's a couple of "stop points". The signature doesn't appear fluid and the two half moon M's look almost like quarter moons. The first "M" is where I see a stop point. I'm looking at a half dozen Mantle baseballs I've gotten signed personally over the years and I never seen as much separation between the y and the start of "Mantle". The COA states:"the signature WAS WITNESSED by an Upper deck authentication representative.." Does that mean he saw Mantle sign it or he "witnessed" the autograph-post signing? ---Now quick ,reference this to something game used before Eric or Chris throws us off.
Robert

trsent
02-07-2006, 01:17 PM
I know UDA's policy is to witness all autographs in person from their authentication process. I know often on the trading card side this may vary, but I was always told items with the UDA hologram were witnessed in person by an UDA representative.

cohibasmoker
02-07-2006, 04:03 PM
Guys, what's the problem with the ball? Isn't it any good?

Swoboda4
02-08-2006, 12:33 AM
I'm not a Mantle expert but I do observe in this example that the usual half moon "M" in "M"ickey and "M"antle are not as full or round,at the bottom as expected. The "M's" look pointed rather than slightly turned at the beginning. The first "M" doesn't appear to be done fluidly,in one motion and with the appearance of a stop point. Mantle was so consistent with his penmanship that any variation gets me nervous.

PJK
02-08-2006, 02:24 AM
Remember a few things Mickey was a major drunk. I met him one time at his bar when I was staying at the St. Moritz next door. He signed a menu sloppy drunk and his signature was different then the norm. I also don't care how consistentent your sig is the #1 signed ball will be slightly different from ball #1000. Mickey might have been also talking to a UDA rep who happened to be a hot female and his brain was thinking of ""Gee, I wonder..." that's why it's not a consitent text book Mick sig. You can start a sig and have a hand cramp also. You try signing 1000-2000 baseballs at one time and tell me if they look the same. Having someone talking to you may also distract you from placing it perfectly on the sweet spot. I'm sure half of the time when these athletes are signing stuff they are not actually looking at where they are signing it. I'm sure a UDA exec gives the ball to Mick with the sweet spot up. But I would be shocked that he didn't ocasionally sign a side pannel of a ball by mistake. I know athletes that have done these signings and they normally don't exactly like doing them.

I remember seeing several years a go Matt Groening, the creator of THE SIMPSONS, sign at the famous San Diego Comic-Con. He signed for almost 5 hours. Matt's sig is basically printing as most artists do yet it does have a certain style and consistency to it. I saw sigs that people got and sketches from Matt during hour 1 and hour 5. Hour 1 they were textbook Groening sigs and sketches. Hour 5 where his hand was actaully shaking and it looked like a 75 year old man was doing them. Those people that got Matt to authentically do a sketch of Bart or Homer, have alsost 0 chance of anyone ever believing that he did that sketch at the hour 5 ones, even though they are authentic.

-PJK

Swoboda4
02-08-2006, 01:14 PM
A final comment from me on this non-game used thread and one that Sammy cryptically started but hasn't responded to,but I know he has a life outside of this forum and will say something when time allows. PJK-your comments about how and why this ball can look like this are 1,000% correct and may have answered all this. Some of the Mantle personal stuff wasn't neccessary since he owned up to his shortcomings like a man,and in particular since he's dead. My comments are strickly based on how the ball looks to me. I have and will buy from this dealer. But understand that Mantle is the number 1 forger target in the hobby and Mantle's worse effort can look like someone else's best.
Robert

PJK
02-08-2006, 02:06 PM
Robert,

I was in no way trying to demean the Mick in my comments. He was one of the nicest guys I have ever met. He bought my group of friends from college that were with me several rounds of drinks and told us some great stories about living at the St Moritz during his playing days. Trust me on this I respect anyone that owns up to there shortcomings like the Mick did. And yes I know Mick is one if not they most forged sigs in the business. I was just stating what I thought were some obviuos facts that I think often get forgotten on a regular basis 1)It's physically impossible to sign your name picture perfect when you sign 1000-2000 items at a time, Not even for Pete Rose 2)Signatures look different if you are a)Sittting down b)you're not tired c)you're not talking to someone d)you're not running through an airport to catch a plane. etc....

I can't tell you how many times I have gone to the bank with a million things on my mind and printed my name instead of signing it on the back of a check I'm depositing.

-PJK

trsent
02-13-2006, 11:01 AM
Sammy, I don't know how you pick them out but eBay ended this auction!

When I used to buy and sell thousands of UDA autographed items a year (which was about 7-10 years ago) I never doubted things, but it appears the new game is to put the wrong holograms on bad baseballs or something like that because this is not the first one you have found.

PJK
02-13-2006, 09:05 PM
Aren't those holograms supposed to come apart if you were to take them off. Isn't or wasn't that the point of putting holograms on these items.

-PJK

trsent
02-14-2006, 10:23 AM
Aren't those holograms supposed to come apart if you were to take them off. Isn't or wasn't that the point of putting holograms on these items.

I believe holograms on felt were easy to remove. They may have originally not used tamper resistant holograms and Mantle signed in the early historical days of Upper Deck Authenticated.

earlywynnfan
02-14-2006, 11:44 AM
I agree; I won a ball through Coach's Corner (Don't all yell at me, I know what I'm doing, sorta) that was a Mantle with the UDA sticker on it. When i got it, the sticker was practically falling off and the ball was horrible. They gave me my money back, but that was my lesson in not believing UDA holograms.

Ken

Good Eye Sports
02-14-2006, 03:40 PM
The UDA hologram, even the current ones, is not tamper-proof meaning it does not fall apart when it is removed. As a UDA distributor myself, I have often times received jerseys without the hologram in the right spot only to find the hologram stuck fully intact on the inside of the jersey or elsewhere.

So the thought of finding a UDA hologram on a fake item is fathomable, especially on UDA items pre-2001 where the picture of the autograph cannot be found online.

Simply calling UDA and asking if the hologram # matches the player may not be good enough for vintage UDA stuff.

Hope this helps somebody

Goh

PJK
02-14-2006, 03:54 PM
I did not know that. Pretty dumb on UDA part not to use the tamper resistant stickers. Are these still the rock solid investment baseballs that they were before? Doesn't this lead to a level of authenticy anarachay. Who can you believe?

sammy
02-14-2006, 08:01 PM
Even with the very few questionable items with UDA holograms I have seen, I would still take a UDA Mickey Mantle or UDA Ted Williams autographed baseball over any other.

In regard to the baseballs with UDA stickers that I found questionable, my concerns were based on the autograph.

As with all items, know your business. Do not depend on the COA for 100 percent assurance.