Are the Bradshaw and Staubach jerseys in Vintage..

[CollectGU]

the ones that the banned member Apujols04 was talking about? He had said that they were going to be in a major auction house, and Vintage is offering both, plus a Unitas game issued which I recall he said he had as well. Is this where they landed?

[therealdealsports2006]

Re: Are the Bradshaw and Staubach jerseys in Vintage..

I had the pleasure of seeing all 5 of the jerseys which APujols04 mentioned on this forum. Those are for sure his jerseys. I would love to know what Mike Heffner of Lelands thinks about M.E.A.R.S. and Lampson authenticating the Staubach and Bradshaw as game used. Lelands missed out these. Especially after he posted how he would "never" buy or take the items on consignment. To top the cake the seller also has the first signed Billy Martin jersey I have ever seen (the auto was passed by PSA/DNA). It is amazing. His Unitas jersey also got graded as being "game issued." Looks like Apujols04 ran into four amazing jerseys. Maybe he really could buy a Bentley now. What a run of luck especially considering how much APujols was trashed on this forum. Good for him.

[CollectGU]

Re: Are the Bradshaw and Staubach jerseys in Vintage..

I am intersted to hear other forum members thoughts on the jerseys. Maybe Apujols has been vindicated to a certain extent.......

[Eric]

Re: Are the Bradshaw and Staubach jerseys in Vintage..

I had the pleasure of seeing all 5 of the jerseys which APujols04 mentioned on this forum. Those are for sure his jerseys. I would love to know what Mike Heffner of Lelands thinks about M.E.A.R.S. and Lampson authenticating the Staubach and Bradshaw as game used. Lelands missed out these. Especially after he posted how he would "never" buy or take the items on consignment. To top the cake the seller also has the first signed Billy Martin jersey I have ever seen (the auto was passed by PSA/DNA). It is amazing. His Unitas jersey also got graded as being "game issued." Looks like Apujols04 ran into four amazing jerseys. Maybe he really could buy a Bentley now. What a run of luck especially considering how much APujols was trashed on this forum. Good for him.

How exactly did you have the pleasure of seeing all 5 of the jerseys?

Are you a buyer? An authenticator?
Eric

[therealdealsports2006]

Re: Are the Bradshaw and Staubach jerseys in Vintage..

Eric, David (apujols04) is a buddy of mine. He showed me the jerseys before he consigned them to V.A. We had no idea if they were the real deal or not.

[CollectGU]

Re: Are the Bradshaw and Staubach jerseys in Vintage..

This is another example of the danger of this forum. If I recall these jerseys were "ripped" by forum memebrs as not being good, when in fact, they have now passed both MEARS and Lou Lampson authentication. I am sure that there are many on this forum who ripped on Apujols who would love to own a Bradshaw or Staubach gamer.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Are the Bradshaw and Staubach jerseys in Vintage..

I didn't really follow the Apujols/Bradshaw/Staubach thread(s).

Without referring to him or his jerseys at all, I have a question about some posts on this particular thread about jerseys and authentication in general:

What does a jersey which has been "authenticated" by MEARS & Lampson have to do with it being legit or not? In other words, if a jersey is thought to be bad, and then authenticated by MEARS and Lampson, how does that mean that the jersey is then good?

There seems to be some assumptions I've missed.

Rudy.

[Eric]

Re: Are the Bradshaw and Staubach jerseys in Vintage..

therealdealsports2006

Please email me back. I wrote you to see if the hotmail account you registed with is valid. I can be reached at ecky3@aol.com

Eric

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: Are the Bradshaw and Staubach jerseys in Vintage..

Looks like Apujols04 ran into four amazing jerseys.

I love it when people refer to themselves in the third person....Deion Sanders has to do what's best for Deion Sanders!

When photos of the jerseys were originally posted, they looked good! I was happy for the dude. He constantly re-posted (within minutes) changing his story and playing stupid. That's when I realized the person using the screen name of "04 pujols" was a flake.

[CollectGU]

Re: Are the Bradshaw and Staubach jerseys in Vintage..

Rudy,

It doesn't mean that it's good, simply that it has their blessing which I am aware should only be part of the equation when purchasing an item. I'm guessing that most of the authenticators on this board who bashed the jerseys have never physically handled an authentic bradshaw or Staubach. I am more confident in the authenticity of those jerseys now having been handled by MEARS and Lou, who have actually physically inspected these jerseys and compared them to other exemplars from other authentic Bradshaw and Staubach jerseys they have looked at, then I am in some forum members looking at some jpeg images and deciding that they are not authentic. Just my opinion

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: Are the Bradshaw and Staubach jerseys in Vintage..

This is another example of the danger of this forum. If I recall these jerseys were "ripped" by forum memebrs as not being good, when in fact, they have now passed both MEARS and Lou Lampson authentication. I am sure that there are many on this forum who ripped on Apujols who would love to own a Bradshaw or Staubach gamer.

Hello CollectGU-

I must respectfully disagree that this is a "danger of the forum". It makes it sound like the forum inherently makes people form decisions about items. I think it would be a mistake to think that is the case.

In my opinion, the role of the forum is to provide information so that people can make their own informed decisions about items. That is, the access to information is not inherently dangerous. On the other hand, I believe it is dangerous to form opinions exclusively on what others say, or don't say, about an item.

It is like the saying "Money is the root of all evil". I believe this saying comes from a passage that is misquoted. Since I didn't personally think money was, in and of itself, the root to all evil, I looked up the passage I was confident it came from. When I looked it up, the exact passage I found in this regard actually reads "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil..." That is, money itself is not the root of all evil. Money is simply an instrument used to facilitate the transaction process. However, the love of money can make people do some pretty unscrupulous things.

In the same way, the access to information and opinions is not inherently a "danger". However, if people solely base their opinions on what others have to say (this includes forum members, authenticators, etc.) without doing their own due diligence I think they are leaving themselves open to making bad decisions. In fact, I wrote a post recently that I believe can help elaborate on this further in regards to game used items. The post, which referred to assessing information regarding bat weights, can also be applied to all other game used items. If you haven't had the chance to read it, please take a look and let me know if I am off base on this topic. The post is post #10 in the following thread:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=1341

Specifically, I believe the true "danger" exists when individuals rely exclusively on others to make decisions for them. Regarding the jerseys in this thread, I am not saying they are game used or not game used. I think it is up to each person to do their own due diligence, accumulate as many data points as possible (which will include getting information from this forum) and make their own decisions as to the probability that an item is truly game used.

I would love to hear others' thoughts in this regard.

Sincerely,
Christopher Cavalier

[kingjammy24]

Re: Are the Bradshaw and Staubach jerseys in Vintage..

CollectGU, you are "more confident in the authenticity of those jerseys now having been handled by MEARS and Lou, who have actually physically inspected these jerseys and compared them to other exemplars from other authentic Bradshaw and Staubach jerseys they have looked at"?

Hang on here, these seem to be more assumptions. Apparently, these jerseys have been "authenticated" by Lampson. I have no idea what that actually entails. You feel certain however that Lou "physically inspected these jerseys and compared them to other exemplars from other authentic Bradshaw and Staubach jerseys"? What basis is there for this massive assumption? Lou issued a COA/LOA for them. How does that mean that he's ever even seen these jerseys?

CollectGU, let me illustrate my point with 2 examples off the top of my head:
- Lou Lampson wrote a COA for a pair of Alomar cleats. (A member on here by the login of BaseballGM purchased them and received the Lampson COA. Thread found here: http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_f...ead.php?t=1067 )
Lampson's COA stated "No size tagging evident". In the cleats, there is a huge tag with the size. In fact, the Lampson COA even shows a picture of the size tagging! So much for Lou's "physical examinations". Did Lou actually see the Alomar cleats he was supposed to be "authenticating"? If he did, I'll seriously suggest that he may actually be blind in a legal and medical sense. How else can you possibly look at those cleats and write "no size tagging evident"? I suppose the only other explanation other than blindness would be if you never ever saw them.

- Lou Lampson once "authenticated" an Orioles green St.Patrick's Day jersey, stating it "compared to other green Orioles St. Pat's jerseys". It was shown that the Orioles never wore green St.Patrick's jerseys. So much for Lou's "comparing jerseys to other exemplars". He couldn't have compared them to other exemplars because no other exemplars exist.

I could go on and on and on....and on... with examples of Lou's "authenticating".

So this is the man that you really believe "physically inspected" these jerseys and "compared them to other exemplars"?. An authentication by Lou Lampson truly makes you "more confident in the authenticity" of these jerseys? Wow.

Personally, I would rather depend on submitting images of a jersey to the folks on this Forum than on Lou Lampson doing whatever he does with jerseys. I'd offer that you're underestimating the ability and knowledge of people on here and the amount of information that can indeed be conveyed via photos (why did MEARS' "in-person" examination of the current Vintage Authentics 1993 McGwire not discover that the jersey was a 1996, which I knew after spending 3 seconds looking at a photo of it?), while at the same time placing more trust in Lou Lampson than his actions have warranted.

Without any sort of facetiousness or sarcasm, I'll honestly say that I would rather have a jersey authenticated by my 89 yr old grandmother than by Lou Lampson. After all, the worst my grandmother can do is say she has no clue what it is. Lou, on the other hand, might say it compares to other (non-existant) exemplars.

Rudy.

[therealdealsports2006]

Re: Are the Bradshaw and Staubach jerseys in Vintage..

I love it when people refer to themselves in the third person....Deion Sanders has to do what's best for Deion Sanders!

When photos of the jerseys were originally posted, they looked good! I was happy for the dude. He constantly re-posted (within minutes) changing his story and playing stupid. That's when I realized the person using the screen name of "04 pujols" was a flake.

If I recall correctly, BTPH is the clown who types without double checking his info. You are the one who said the Mets jersey was a Minor League jersey based on it saying "mets" and then David photo matched the jersey to a MLB picture of Tom Seaver. I find the word "flake" to be baiting. But, I guess Eric continues to apply the rules differently based on who is posting. Is my post baiting now? But BTPH is not? Either way, APujols04 owns the jerseys. BTPH and Mike Heffner do not. Too bad because APujols04 planned on consigning the jerseys to Lelands before Mike Heffer turned them down without even doing A FREAKING OUNCE of research. Then he came on here and dissed David's jerseys. So Mike........are they still bad????

[kingjammy24]

Re: Are the Bradshaw and Staubach jerseys in Vintage..

Chris,

Since you specifically asked to hear other's thoughts;

Completed agreed. To come on here and take any post as gospel, fact, and the absolute truth then that's just as bad as taking a COA/LOA as the same.

Sure the jerseys were "ripped". MEARS/Lou Lampson, on the other hand, passed them. Why a person would take either of those as gospel is beyond me. Why not simply view the "negative" opinions (I'm sure the members on here who ripped the jerseys had some valid points) along with MEARS/Lampson's opinions, combine them with your own analysis, and come to the conclusion that you genuinely feel is most accurate?

Rudy.

[Eric]

Re: Are the Bradshaw and Staubach jerseys in Vintage..

If I recall correctly, BTPH is the clown who types without double checking his info. You are the one who said the Mets jersey was a Minor League jersey based on it saying "mets" and then David photo matched the jersey to a MLB picture of Tom Seaver. I find the word "flake" to be baiting. But, I guess Eric continues to apply the rules differently based on who is posting. Is my post baiting now? But BTPH is not? Either way, APujols04 owns the jerseys. BTPH and Mike Heffner do not. Too bad because APujols04 planned on consigning the jerseys to Lelands before Mike Heffer turned them down without even doing A FREAKING OUNCE of research. Then he came on here and dissed David's jerseys. So Mike........are they still bad????

For the second time, I'll ask you "therealdealsports2006" please email me. I have been trying to get in touch with you all day
I am available at ecky3@aol.com
Eric