Will Clemens, Sosa, McGwire, Palmeiro, Bonds end up in the HOF?

[kingjammy24]

Will Clemens, Sosa, McGwire, Palmeiro, Bonds end up in the HOF?

Please note I'm not asking if they should, but rather if they will. It's a question of how you think the writers will vote, not how you would vote.

If I knew how to make a poll on here, I would.

rudy.

[Rob L]

Bonds - yes, he was a HOFer before he took steroids
McGwire - no, steroids gave him his career. Not a HOF type career without steroids.
Palmeiro - see McGwire.
Clemens - iffy. Good pitcher before 1998 but became great during the steroid use. Coin flip.

[Rob L]

Sosa - no. See McGwire explaination.

[kingjammy24]

rob, so you believe the HOF will overlook bonds' self-admitted steroid use?
if bonds is convicted of perjury and obstruction of justice, do you feel the HOF will overlook those as well?

you feel that, in their determinations, the writers will try to somehow figure out what sort of the player the person was before they took steroids? that seems pretty difficult to do objectively or scientifically; to remove steroids from the equation and try to determine what sort of career they would've had and judge based on those hypotheticals.

rudy.

[whatupyos]

Rudy-

I believe they will all go into the Hall eventually. They all deserve too. Point blank period!

Aaron

[whatupyos]

Rudy-
I'm sorry, I can't leave this alone.

Rob...

Thats funny what you said about McGwire, because the only thing in that report that mentioned McGwire is andro...which was legal at the time, you could buy it at any GNC! No rule against that is there? You said steriods gave McGwire his career...where is your rock solid proof?? The only proof you have is that of a Lou Lampson LOA!!!!! WORTHLESS!!

Aaron

[Rob L]

Tom Verducci actually made these statements today and that is how he says he will always vote. He's right. You need to think the way the writers do, they decide who is HOF material, not MLB. Ty Cobb was one of the biggest ***hole in baseball and was a proven cheater (gambling), yet he is in. Bonds will get in. Selig is to big a puss to kick him out (although I would be happy if he did).

Canseco has not been proven wrong on anything, and andro was not the issue with McGwire. In addition, McGwire's brother runs a gym and has been popped for steroids in the past. Five hundred homeruns doesn't mean anything anymore. It's not a worthy milestone since the Steroid Era. McGwire sucked defensively and was a mediocre hitter at best. Great slugger (with steroids) but definitely not a hitter.

Clemens - agian, tough to tell.

Rob L

[whatupyos]

Rob-

You gotta be kidding me man?? Mac sucked defensively????? He had an awesome fielding percentage for most of his career...you better check Mac's fielding percentage!! Sucked defensively...come on. Look, if you're not a Mac fan, thats your right but lets get the facts straight man!!!

YEAR Mattingly % Mac %
1988 .993 .993
1989 .995 .995
1990 .997 .997
1991 .996 .997
1992 .997 .995

I love how you say he sucked defensively!!! That gave me a good laugh. You should work for CNN!!

With you comment with Mac's brother working for a gym, I know that. I've lived in the area most my life. What you didn't know is Mac actually got his brother to stop using steriods in the early 1990's when he was going through his divorse. They lived together and he got his bro to quit. Again, great reporting!

[Rob L]

Aaron,

Hmm, nice comparison, Mattingly vs. McGwire. Let's see the end result:

Mattingly - 1634 games (1st base), 14148 PO, 64 Errors, .996 FP
McGwire - 1701 games (1st base), 14451 PO, 103 Errors, .993 FP

These guys aren't even close. Only a McGwire homer would think so. Uh, BTW, last time I checked, Mattingly wasn't in the HOF.

Wow, McGwire helped his bro get off the juice in the early 1990s. That's brotherly love. Nice example too. Hopefully he pointed Dan to creatine and Andro as an alternative.

Look, believe it or not, I am a McGwire fan. Frankly, what he did in 1998 was awesome, steroids or not. I have a bunch of his memorabilia in my office. He just isn't HOF material. The 500 homerun mark was a former shoe-in for the HOF, but the "steroid era" has tainted it. I just don't see the writers who control the HOF votes. Only time will tell.

Rob L

[whatupyos]

Rob-

I dont see your point with the fielding stats...so Mac had roughly 40 more errors than Mattingly...you said he sucked defensively...how so? percentage wise .003 of a difference is a fraction of a fraction away. I'd say they're real comparable and both had superb defense. If you see it another way, what can I say but .996 and .993....or whatever it was, you'd have to be from Mars to say that sucks.

Nice example you said to be about Mac getting his bro off the jucie.... Look, you made it a point to say Mac's bro used steriods and was busted. You seemed to be implicating that therefore Mac used too, when there's no evidence to support your claim. You keep saying Mac used steroids, but where is your proof? Thats like me calling you a tax cheat without proof. I can guess but does that mean you are?? No, without proof. As far as I can proove, you're a law abiding citizen.

With the HOF you're right...the writers are going to decide how they are going to decide. Thats the first intelligent point you've made. As to Mac not having the stats to make it...Ummm....I seem to remember a thread stating Mac's stats for HR's, RBI's and AVE. were comparable to Reggie Jackson, Harmon Killebrew and one other. Mac had a career AVE of .263 to Reggie's .262 Killebrew had a .252 AVE...Mac had more HR's than both. Granted his RBI's were not as good, or his hits, but AVE and HR's are both better and they are both in the HOF...thus Mac should be there too.

[reed1216]

Like it, or not, I think all these guys will eventually get in the Hall. Yes, even the beloved Palmeiro. The Mitchell Report named some names, but anyone who thinks the list is a complete account of steroid users, cheaters, or whatever you want to label them as, isn't seeing the bigger picture. Has Pudge been clean, just cause his name isn't on the list? I love the guy as a player and own one of his jerseys, but I think he probably used and was a little smarter about it than those who got caught.

Where I think they'll suffer is getting in on the first ballot. McGwire will (and I think should) get in eventually. I bet Bonds and Clemens, despite their inflated (and incredible) numbers will have to wait a little longer too. I think everyone (especially the HOF voters) are pretty confused as to how this will all play out. However, I think that in time, they will realize that they have to recognize that some of these guys were the best among a league where cheating was the norm, rather than the exception.

I think the players that will suffer the most are those like Andy Pettitte. Pettitte has had a fine career and would have gotten significant consideration based on his post season success. I think his involvement here, if it's proven legit, will keep him from being a serious contender. For those who are wondering, I own one of his jerseys as well.

In the end, this report has outed a few cheaters and in doing so, has confirmed that there is a dark cloud over the sport. However, it hasn't really clarified anything. Does anyone think that the Sheffield's of the sport will stop using HGH, which is impossible to detect? Those who want to cheat will continue to do so. Those who develop performance enhancing drugs will probably always be one step ahead of those who want to detect for them. It's a cycle that will continue, until the players association (and the individual players within), owners and the fans, decide enough is enough....