Mastro to Authenticate Jerseys on their Own

[JimCaravello]

Just received this e-mail this morning from Mastro..........

MEARS Authentication took what in the auction industry is an unprecedented stand. In order to do business directly with auction companies they are requiring access to private consignor and confidential bidding records. We are uncomfortable providing this type of access to any organization let alone one that as part of their business model conducts private purchases and sales. It is on this basis we made the decision not to renew our contract with MEARS. What has transpired since this decision is a process that we believe will make us a better firm and enable us to offer game used jerseys that have gone through an unprecedented third party review process.

Effective in 2008 Mastro Auctions will stand behind all of our game used jerseys by issuing our own LOAs. Behind these LOAs will be the most targeted and comprehensive authentication process in the business. For each auction we will assemble a team of experts that will work together to examine all of our game used jerseys. No individual names will be associated with this work based on the fact that we will only offer items where the team unanimously deems the item to be authentic. We have engaged John Taube of PSA/DNA to oversee this process to ensure the necessary steps are being taken to ensure this authentication is being conducted in the most professional and comprehensive manner possible.

With the proliferation of fraud and alterations in our industry it is critical to have access to exemplar files to aid in the authentication process. We will arm our authentication team with the best exemplar database in the industry. First, we have gone through our historical database over the last 10 years of items sold and populated our new exemplar archive with images of tagging, styles, lettering, patches, etc. In order to augment this we have embarked upon an extensive retrieval process to collect detailed images from our customers who have the best private collections in the world. Although this process will be time consuming and expensive what will result will be the best authentication tool to ever be made available to the industry

I want to assure you that consistent with all the moves we make, a tremendous amount of thought and planning has gone into this change. We are confident that what will result is a better product for the industry and our valued customers.

Doug Allen
President & COO
Mastro Auctions Inc.
7900 S. Madison Street
Burr Ridge, IL 60527
p: 630-472-1200
m: 630-336-6650

[hblakewolf]

Just received this e-mail this morning from Mastro..........

MEARS Authentication took what in the auction industry is an unprecedented stand. In order to do business directly with auction companies they are requiring access to private consignor and confidential bidding records. We are uncomfortable providing this type of access to any organization let alone one that as part of their business model conducts private purchases and sales. It is on this basis we made the decision not to renew our contract with MEARS. What has transpired since this decision is a process that we believe will make us a better firm and enable us to offer game used jerseys that have gone through an unprecedented third party review process.

Effective in 2008 Mastro Auctions will stand behind all of our game used jerseys by issuing our own LOAs. Behind these LOAs will be the most targeted and comprehensive authentication process in the business. For each auction we will assemble a team of experts that will work together to examine all of our game used jerseys. No individual names will be associated with this work based on the fact that we will only offer items where the team unanimously deems the item to be authentic. We have engaged John Taube of PSA/DNA to oversee this process to ensure the necessary steps are being taken to ensure this authentication is being conducted in the most professional and comprehensive manner possible.

With the proliferation of fraud and alterations in our industry it is critical to have access to exemplar files to aid in the authentication process. We will arm our authentication team with the best exemplar database in the industry. First, we have gone through our historical database over the last 10 years of items sold and populated our new exemplar archive with images of tagging, styles, lettering, patches, etc. In order to augment this we have embarked upon an extensive retrieval process to collect detailed images from our customers who have the best private collections in the world. Although this process will be time consuming and expensive what will result will be the best authentication tool to ever be made available to the industry

I want to assure you that consistent with all the moves we make, a tremendous amount of thought and planning has gone into this change. We are confident that what will result is a better product for the industry and our valued customers.

Doug Allen
President & COO
Mastro Auctions Inc.
7900 S. Madison Street
Burr Ridge, IL 60527
p: 630-472-1200
m: 630-336-6650


Jim-
Can you possibly reply to Doug's above email, or find out the following:

"Effective in 2008 Mastro Auctions will stand behind all of our game used jerseys by issuing our own LOAs"

Sounds impressive, however, should a collector purchase an item with this new LOA, and later discover it is fake, altered, restored, etc. (and not described or purchased as less than original), what type of policy is in place to address this? Will it mock MEARS, and a refund issued, or will it mock American Memorabila, All Sales Final?

"For each auction we will assemble a team of experts that will work together to examine all of our game used jerseys. No individual names will be associated with this work based on the fact that we will only offer items where the team unanimously deems the item to be authentic".

Sounds extremely similar to the same business model as used by American Memorabilia, with their "100% Authentic Team". Although AMI has their "team", we have seen countless blunders by Lampson and items in their auctions questioned that could not be documented as genuine or used by the athlete in question.

Who comprises this "team"? How can a collector feel comfortable without knowing who the "experts" are that authenticate their specific item? Is it possible that Mastro has an individual they feel is an "expert" in basketball jerseys also contributing to the authentication process for baseball knits? Why the shroud of secrecy?

Any insight is appreciated.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[JimCaravello]

Hi Howard - it was actually one of those "Do Not Reply" e-mails and I have already deleted it. You should contact them directly with your questions and see what they have to say. Good luck! Jim

[hblakewolf]

Hi Howard - it was actually one of those "Do Not Reply" e-mails and I have already deleted it. You should contact them directly with your questions and see what they have to say. Good luck! Jim

Jim-
I also received the same email. I have forwarded my post to Doug/Mastro auctions and will update this thread when I receive a repsonse.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[kingjammy24]

"Effective in 2008 Mastro Auctions will stand behind all of our game used jerseys by issuing our own LOAs"

does this mean that as of '08, if you have an issue with an item you can pursue a remedy with mastro directly instead of playing a ridiculous game of "where in the world is lou lampson"? i suppose that opens up all sorts of interesting legal options. perhaps the blame game has finally come to an end.

"..enable us to offer game used jerseys that have gone through an unprecedented third party review process."

is that to say that the authentication team will not come from in-house mastro staff?

"No individual names will be associated with this work based on the fact that we will only offer items where the team unanimously deems the item to be authentic."

doug's point is entirely non-sequitur. the fact that team consensus is necessary to sign off an item has nothing to do with the decision to identify members of that team. they're two entirely unrelated issues. it's possible to require team consensus AND identify team members without either of these issues affecting each other.

when AMI did away with naming individual authenticators and wrapped them all under the "100%" banner, i personally felt it was likely an effort to mitigate the bad PR received from lampson's debacles by burying lampson's name despite the fact that they continue to use him. an item is no longer authenticated by "lou lampson" but rather "100% authentic" even though it's the same person. i wonder if this is also true of mastro. the big question is whether they'll still be using lampson.

it's an odd decision given that mastro identifies all of the members of the rest of the company, complete with photos and bios. as well, they previously identified whether lampson or mears had evaluated an item. when it comes to this new authentication team though, they're suddenly incognito.

the issue of team consensus has me confused because it assumes that per each item, they'll have multiple people with expertise in that specific item. assuming the consensus is based on a minimum of 2 experts, it would seem they'd need to have 12+ authenticators for all of the different areas such as football helmets, football jerseys, baseball jerseys, bats, cleats, basketball jerseys, etc. gathering a football helmet expert, basketball jersey expert, and baseball jersey expert and having them all sign off on a bat would obviously be ridiculous. none of them would know much about the item yet they'd all be able to say they reached consensus, however worthless it may be. to obtain true team consensus on each item where those giving consensus have true expertise in that item would seem almost cost prohibitive. perhaps their team won't in fact have specific expertise in the multitude of areas they'll be required to examine and this is why their identities are kept secret. taube's good with bats but how relevant is his opinion on football helmets or basketball jerseys?

personally, i can't figure out a single good reason why someone would want to keep the identity of their authenticator hidden. the real precedence being set here is that mastro is now the only auction house that doesn't divulge the names of their authenticators. lelands uses their own in-house team and they reveal their identities. even AMI reveals the individuals who constitute "100% authentic". GFC also reveals who authenticates each of their different areas. it seems that most of the auction houses like to trumpet the genius and expertise of their authenticators as a selling point. mastro's doing the complete opposite. it's like going to a movie where the studio has refused to release the names of the actors. very, very strange.

d. grob has a good post on this issue here:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/426247/message/1199384262/Mastro+Auctions+Authentication+Services

rudy.

[David]

Mastro used to issue their own autograph and game used LOAs. The autograph LOAs were signed by Steve Grad (now of PSA/DNA) or Mike Gutierrez. The game used by Knoll and Bushing.

[earlywynnfan]

I like the line about "the proliferation of fraud and alterations in our industry." Aren't they the ones who have been proven to alter items??

Ken

[cohibasmoker]

Hey guys. I am not a businessman but what struck me was the following:

"In order to do business directly with auction companies they are requiring access to private consignor and confidential bidding records. We are uncomfortable providing this type of access to any organization let alone one that as part of their business model conducts private purchases and sales.

My thought was, since MEARS buys and sells memorabilia, by MastroNet giving MEARS their database of clients, isn't that in essence handing over a very valuable list of buyers and seller's? Would GM turn over their client lists to Ford?

Just my thought.

Jim

[jdr3]

GM was not caught red handed trying to swindle their client base out of thousands of dollars the way Mastro did with their Jordan jersey. The FBI cannot find out enough about these guys for my satisfaction.

[ahuff]

Never has it been more true that "you must do your own homework". Several board members have been pushing that for years.

Personally, I believe when you take severe consquences out of the picture, nothing good can come of this. I liked how MEARS stepped up, and offered a product that the end consumer could feel fairly confident in.

This is slightly off topic, but still applicable. I've been in the real estate/lending chain for over a decade. You could see the proliferation of fraud going on with numerous mortgage brokers. The issue was that everyone else in the chain was held to standards and licensing regulations. Everyone else had something to lose. They did not. However, they were still the ones that had the authority to utilize whomever they wanted for services. Being they really only wanted to close loans, if you could not meet their requests, you didn't get business. Does this sound a lot like the relationship that Lampson and many auction houses have? I see now the government is getting involved. Perhaps that is what this will all come to.

[hblakewolf]

Jim-
I also received the same email. I have forwarded my post to Doug/Mastro auctions and will update this thread when I receive a repsonse.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net


As an update to my post, the following email was sent to me:

From: Doug Allen [mailto:dallen@mastroauctions.com]
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 3:36 PM
To: Howard Wolf
Cc: Jim Bonnamy
Subject: RE: Question from Doug's email

Howard,



If we agree that if a mistake is made in that it is determined to be fake, altered, restored, etc we will refund the purchase price.



As to the team we will use noted authenticators as well as knowlegable collectors. Their work will be supported by an unbeleivable examplar archive. For example I would love to leverage your knowledge if we got in some great Phillies or Mariners pieces as I understand you are the best in the business when it comes to these pieces.



It will be a very fluid team but every piece will include independent confirmation/feedback from at least two knowledgable indivdiuals.



Regards,

Doug

[kingjammy24]

i believe the best system for authentication is to use niche experts, rather than expect 1 or 2 guys to magically be experts in dozens of different fields. you just can't mimic or replace years of specialized knowledge and experience in 1 niche with a few minutes spent looking at getty. in an ideal world, i'd think that the best authentication service would use a rolodex filled with niche experts. however, i've heard that such an approach is cost prohibitive.

if mastro has found a way to not only use niche experts but to also require a consensus among them, then that's pretty impressive.

personally, i'm curious about the level of compensation for these niche experts. i have no problem helping out fellow collectors as many of them have certainly helped me out a lot. however, in the case of an auction house that stands to profit handsomely from my advice, i'd certainly expect compensation. if there's pie to be had, then i'll take my slice.

doug mentioned that they "will use noted authenticators". who? if they're "noted", then note them! i fail to understand why listing the names of these eminent authenticators is so difficult, especially given that mastro previously had no problem mentioning whether lampson or mears had evaluated an item. why is it a secret this time around? it's odd.

ultimately though, despite the oddity of keeping the authenticators secret, the proof will be in the pudding. if mastro does a good job and their error rate is low, then it doesn't seem that much else matters. if these secret authenticators do a good job then i suppose their identities are irrelevant. whatever system doug cooked up deserves a chance to prove itself. for all i know mastro will do a bang-up job and have a phenomenally low error rate. they'll be judged by their work. if their work stinks, then i imagine people will clamor for the identities of these noted authenticators. if their work is great, then people won't care less. personally though, if they retain lampson i can't see how their future won't be rife with massive errors.

rudy.

[ripkengamers]

As an update to my post, the following email was sent to me:

From: Doug Allen [mailto:dallen@mastroauctions.com]
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 3:36 PM
To: Howard Wolf
Cc: Jim Bonnamy
Subject: RE: Question from Doug's email

Howard,



If we agree that if a mistake is made in that it is determined to be fake, altered, restored, etc we will refund the purchase price.



As to the team we will use noted authenticators as well as knowlegable collectors. Their work will be supported by an unbeleivable examplar archive. For example I would love to leverage your knowledge if we got in some great Phillies or Mariners pieces as I understand you are the best in the business when it comes to these pieces.



It will be a very fluid team but every piece will include independent confirmation/feedback from at least two knowledgable indivdiuals.



Regards,

Doug


Hey Howard,

Looking for a career change ?? :D

[hblakewolf]

Hey Howard,

Looking for a career change ?? :D

I'll stick with my current day job, thanks.

Honestly, I'm always more than happy to offer an opinion to private collectors, free of charge. Likewise, I'll be more than happy to do the same for Doug or any auction house, but the days of me doing it for free are over. With these auction houses now reaping 20% consignment fees on the front and back ends, I have to believe there is room to compensate those of us willing to spend time reviewing equipment.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[lund6771]

Howard...

You used the word "reaping"...I like to call it "raping"!!!

But the whole 20% thing is a whole nother topic...I still can't believe that if your item sells for $10,000.00 the auction house makes $4,000.00