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View Full Version : Does anyone have info on Shoeless Joe's bat orders?



MGHProductions
02-11-2006, 09:18 PM
Does anyone have access to Joe Jackson's post banishment bat orders? If so, could you post the info here.
Thanks

suave1477
02-13-2006, 09:26 AM
I was curious did you say post banishment bat orders? What would he place orders for if he was banished from baseball?

metsbats
02-13-2006, 10:57 AM
Joe Jackson continue to play in independant leagues after his banishment from the major leagues. This would not have stopped him from ordering bats from H&B. Check out the final scene of Eight Men Out. Great movie.

David

suave1477
02-13-2006, 11:09 AM
Metsbats yes I am very aware of the movie, if you also remember, he was banned from playing ball and had a bad reputation to follow. So he didn't make it known who he was, he played under alias's. Also I am not familiar with how detailed H&B records are, but how indepth are they with records of bat orders of the minor leagues of 1920?

metsbats
02-13-2006, 07:17 PM
Description of Heritage Auction Joe Jackson Barnstorming bat


1921-31 "Shoeless" Joe Jackson Barnstorming Game Used Bat.</I> It took the loss of Lou Gehrig to offer to the baseball world a story more tragic than that of Shoeless Joe, an illiterate laborer from Pickens County, South Carolina who left the dirt farms of his youth to become one of the game's greatest stars, and then lost it all in an instant. We may never know exactly how much Jackson understood, and how much he actually participated in the Black Sox scandal that resulted in the loss of the 1919 World Series and his banishment forever from Major League Baseball, but we can be certain that he was one of the most gifted athletes ever to find his way onto a Big League ballfield. Ty Cobb himself called Shoeless Joe "the finest natural hitter in the history of the game," and the great Babe Ruth echoed this sentiment, stating that "he's the guy that made me a hitter." Despite this highest of praise, the harsh ruling of Judge Landis was a weight that Jackson carried for the rest of his days, and he still does, perhaps forever locked out of the gates of Cooperstown.

Of course Joe Jackson's baseball career didn't end entirely as a result of the scandal, though the venues showcasing his remarkable talents changed from 40,000 seat stadiums to weed-choked sandlots in towns with forgotten names. The fame and the money now gone, Jackson would continue appearing on the barnstorming circuit for twenty years, until the age of fifty, which would suggest that he really did play for the love of the game, and that the lure of easy money did not overshadow his competitive spirit that dark October. "God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times," Jackson is quoted as saying, "and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

Presented here is a remarkable artifact dating from the early years of Jackson's excommunication from organized ball, his trusted signature model Hillerich & Bradsby in his famous two-toned "Black Betsy" style. In a sad development, the famous bat manufacturer dropped the "Joe" from his bat endorsement in 1920, adding a final bit of insult to injury as they deprived Jackson even of his christian name. The "Jackson" that does appear on the barrel, however, is unmistakable, identical in every regard to those that appeared on Joe's bats during happier days. The use is outstanding, though this is no surprise--even in the Majors, Jackson did not spread his affection widely among his lumber, using a bat until it basically turned to sawdust in his hands. The low-dollar life of a barnstormer would only further this practice, and the barrel bears this out, showing the effects of hundreds of hard collisions with horsehide. The terrorized grain of the wood shows significant separation on the backside due to this rough life, which ended with an eleven-inch crack and missing five-inch chip, neither of which is visible upon display. The missing and dead wood account for the very slight deviation from the proper forty-ounce weight, while the professional model 35.75" length is also exactly right for Jackson's preferred gamers. The white paint that has filled in the stamping was almost certainly applied by Jackson himself, a lazy diversion on a long bus ride to make his trusty weapon stand out more, to prove he wasn't ashamed of his sullied name. It's clear that the use on the bat is subsequent to the paint's application. It's an incredibly personal piece from what was certainly a time of great soul searching for this most intriguing of baseball legends, and to hold it in one's hands is to experience at once the dizzying highs and crushing lows of the life of Shoeless Joe Jackson. SCD A4.5, with points lost due to condition issues rather than concerns of authenticity. LOA from Dan Knoll & Dave Bushing/ SCD Authentic. LOA from Dan Knoll & Dave Bushing/ SCD Authentic.</B>

metsbats
02-13-2006, 07:21 PM
This ones from an Hunts Auction:

Description: Rare "Shoeless" Joe Jackson professional model baseball bat c.1921-24. Louisville Slugger 125 model bat measures 36" long and weighs 39oz. with pronounced two tone finish in the manner of Joe Jackson's style of bat. "Jackson" name is stamped in script on the barrel end remaining very bold and legible, and "36" is stamped on the knob end denoting bat length. The bat exhibits evident usage incl. barrel wear, cleat marks, and appropriate light grain swelling. Originally obtained from Jackson by Mr. William H. Kirk in Houston, Texas during the early 1920s at a Houston area stadium where Jackson appeared in a barnstorming game. Mr. Kirk was an electrician conducting some work at the stadium and took the time to admire Jackson's hitting skills. Kirk approached Jackson and was presented with the bat, about which Jackson remarked, "...that is my name on the barrel" in reference to the "Jackson" script stampings. The bat was kept by Mr. Kirk until the early 1970s when it was gifted to his grandson, William H. Kirk, III. At the time, the younger Kirk was actively involved in high school baseball and was given the bat by his grandfather, who recounted the aforementioned story along with the fact that the player who had given him the bat had been banned from Major League Baseball at the time. Although rare, Joe Jackson game used barnstorming professional model bats do surface, but they are almost never accompanied by direct provenance as to the actual usage by Jackson. Very fine exemplar of a classic Jackson barnstorming bat with impeccable provenance. Includes LOA from MEARS/David Bushing, LOA from Hunt Auctions,Inc., and a notarized letter of provenance from William H. Kirk, III: EX
(($15,000.00-$20,000.00))

metsbats
02-13-2006, 07:24 PM
Mastronet's Nov. 2003 auction:

Joe Jackson 1920's Barnstorming Bat
This is an actual game-used bat from Shoeless Joe Jackson's barnstorming days of the mid to late 1920's. Following his epic banishment from Major League Baseball, Shoeless Joe continued to play the game regularly and was one of the most popular barnstorming players of the period. This H&B 40 pro model bat (35", 33-oz.) is composed of the highest-grade white ash and features block lettering of "JACKSON" deeply emblazoned on its barrel. After the 1920 season, the woodworkers at H&B ground the first name "Joe" from the dies of his signature model bats in order to distinguish those bats that were used for his barnstorming years. After that, they went with the block letter last name only style. Jackson's Major League bats were pulled from production in 1920, and no store models were ever again offered for sale. The bat has heavy evidence of game use. Minimum bid $2,500.00.

MGHProductions
02-13-2006, 08:51 PM
Thanks metsbats. I appreciate the descriptions.

suave1477
02-13-2006, 09:35 PM
metsbats well your examples just goes to prove my point even further not only did Joe Jackson use the same bat over and over after his Major League playing days which would make these bats very hard to find since he couldnt afford a lot, but also there are either hardly any if any records linking bats to him and what he ordered. The most you will come up with is Jackson bats and I bet you H&B records don't give you a clear detail of his orders. From the way it sounds he probably put in hardly any orders and just kept reusing the same bats over and over again from maybe just a couple of orders. According to your first description he would play with bats that were cracked and chipped so who knows when he would finally stop using one bat. Probably to the point where it would finally break through!!!!

ghostkid
02-14-2006, 08:32 AM
Vintage Authentics has a Joe Jackson Hanna Batrite bat in their current auction that closes on March 2. Here's the auction description:


Standard Ash Hanna Batrite Beaver Driver TA75 pro model bat used by the legendary Shoeless Joe Jackson during his post-career barnstorming days. Shoeless Joe's famous name is synonomis with baseball lore. He was a fantastic all-around ballplayer with a true passion for the game and a sweet swing. Babe Ruth even patterned his stance from Joe. Jackson broke into baseball in 1911 and hit .408 and .395 respectively his first two seasons. After the Black Sox scandal, Joe enjoyed one of his finest summers ever in 1920 hitting .392 with 121 RBIs. Sadly it was Joe's last being banned from the game he loved in August of 1920. Joe spent countless years barnstorming under a variety of names from then on.
This bat comes from his post-career days and has a post 1930 patent date on the knob. It measures 31.5 oz and 36" with typical Jackson large style knob and "JACKSON" stamped into the barrel. The bat exhibits significant game wear and tear with a swelled hitting surface and numerous cleat and stitch marks across the barrel. There is some slight deadwood resulting from its heavy use as well as a restored handle crack. The end of the barrel has some rotting and a few dents across the back of the barrel. The bat was obviously used extensively. Overall this specimen from a legendary hitter earns a final grade of 4.


Kevin Kasper

metsbats
02-14-2006, 06:00 PM
I think he was able to order bats and the only HB did was to stamp "Jackson" on the bats during the 1920-31 period. If this was not the case these bats would not have 20-31 labeling. To you point whether the HB records will be highly accurate post 1920 than prior to his banishment is a good question.