Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

[byergo]

How much money do you estimate it has cost YOU personally to hold onto the game used memorabilia of outed steroid cheaters: Palimero, Mcgwire, Bonds, Sosa, Canseco, etc...? How much loss of market value have you had to bear?

What do you expect moving forward on this front?

[bigtime59]

Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

Nothing...couldn't afford their stuff to begin with.

[sylbry]

Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

This isn't game used but I had a copy of the speeding ticket Jose Canseco got in his Porsche in 1989 while going double the speed limit with no license. I bought it for $7 and sold it when his book came out for $25.

With that said I think the steriod scandal has helped the value of his stuff. I bought a couple of his bats pre scandal and prices have jumped since. I think this has more to do with him being back in the spotlight.

Palmeiro on the other hand was flying high just getting his 3,000 hit and then took a hard fall. I have been looking to buy one of his bats simply because they have dropped in price.

[yanks12025]

Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

HI
Steroids may help the price go up. But think whats its doing to baseball. In the 2006 season barry bonds is going to pass babe ruth and maybe in two years or so pass hank aaron records now thats messed up because those guys tryed. Bonds and with all the other people that took steriods should be kicked out of baseball like pete rose and never be let in the hall of fame. And just for yopu guys to know Pete rose should be in the hall.

[yanks12025]

Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

Hi
Steriods may help the price of things go up. But look at what steriods is doing to baseball now. I think Barry bonds and all the other people that took them should be kicked out of baseball and cant go in the hall of fame. Babe ruth and hank aaron tryed to get there home runs and now Barry bonds had to come along and cheat to catch up to them. This is kinda like the Pete rose thing but Pete should be in the hall.

[trsent]

Re: Is this debate for real?

Hi
Steriods may help the price of things go up. But look at what steriods is doing to baseball now. I think Barry bonds and all the other people that took them should be kicked out of baseball and cant go in the hall of fame. Babe ruth and hank aaron tryed to get there home runs and now Barry bonds had to come along and cheat to catch up to them. This is kinda like the Pete rose thing but Pete should be in the hall.

Kicked out of baseball?

Common, technically speaking they didn't violate the rules of baseball taking Steroids until just last season. Now, we have debated this before, but you want to show me proof that Barry Bonds has taken Steroids?

I don't believe he has admitted to it or has ever failed a test for it, has he?

This is still the United States of America, right? Innocent until proven guilty, right? So Palmiero should fry in hell for what happened to him?

He was punished by the rules set at the time, let's get over it already - They are cleaning up the game, but Pete Rose broke a rule and it was proven he committed the crime and he was punished according to the rules of baseball.

As a friend of mine, Pete is a great guy and I hope one day Baseball puts him in The Hall. Not only so he can be there where his on-field performance can be in the spotlight, but also because once he gets in, Shoeless Joe Jackson should be a shoe-in as he deserves to be in The Hall.

[byergo]

Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

Joel,
The mountain of evidence surrounding Barry Bonds steriod use is so overwhelming that is is inconceivable to think there is any less than 100% certainty that he was a user.

[trsent]

Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

The mountain of evidence surrounding Barry Bonds steriod use is so overwhelming that is is inconceivable to think there is any less than 100% certainty that he was a user.

Really, did he fail a test or get convicted in a court of law?

Did you try him yourself and determine his guilt so he should now have all his records removed from Baseball and The Hall is out of the questions?

Seriously, what did he do against the rules of Baseball that was illegal even if guilt is found?

[byergo]

Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

You may be the only person left in America who thinks Bonds isn't a steroid user. Minimially he has cheated the history of the game with his artificially inflated stats, and this drug use is illegal in the United States, even if not prohibited by MLB during the timeframe.

Should his stats be removed from the record book, and should he be denied entrance to the HOF? I'd give both of those strong consideration. I think HOF voters will ponder this for a long time, and will for sure not give 1st ballot entrance to the "known" cheaters. And yes I understand that we don't have drug convictions in a court of law, and no I don't think they are necessary for us all to understand the dynamics of what has occurred in baseball for the past 20 years.

[trsent]

Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

You may be the only person left in America who thinks Bonds isn't a steroid user. Minimially he has cheated the history of the game with his artificially inflated stats, and this drug use is illegal in the United States, even if not prohibited by MLB during the timeframe.

Should his stats be removed from the record book, and should he be denied entrance to the HOF? I'd give both of those strong consideration. I think HOF voters will ponder this for a long time, and will for sure not give 1st ballot entrance to the "known" cheaters. And yes I understand that we don't have drug convictions in a court of law, and no I don't think they are necessary for us all to understand the dynamics of what has occurred in baseball for the past 20 years.

So your point is that if there is any evidence that someone took a drug that was not illegal under the rules of their sport, they should have their records banished and they should not be part of the history of the game?

You should move to Cuba with your comments.

Your comments about me being the only person left in America who thinks Bonds didn't use Steroids is ridiculous. I do not know or care if he used them, because if he did, he wasn't breaking the rules of his sport at the time. Funny thing is 90% or so of the American population doesn't know or care about this discussion, so I would assume most of America doesn't care or for that matter think Bonds took Steroids.

Really, move to Cuba and live in a world where there are no freedoms to have a trial by jury or judge. You can set your own laws and execute people because of what you have read and seen in the press.

Barry Bonds didn't break any rules of his sport if he did in fact use Steroids - That is all I care about in this discussion.

People take sports history too seriously. It is a game, should Hulk Hogan's record as a 14 time World Champion be banished because it appears he may have used Steroids? Ok, don't answer, I know you feel he is guilty and doesn't even deserve a trial.

You know something funny, my attorney doesn't think OJ did it - I swear! He even attended every day of the criminal trial!

[byergo]

Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

I'm not moving to Cuba. Bonds is guilty of cheating. WWF is entertainment (low quality entertainment for low IQ fans) and not a sport, and yes they abuse roids like crazy. The American public has heard of the steroids in baseball scandal. People take sports and sports history very seriously, because it is important to us. OJ did it.

[trsent]

Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

Wait! Wait! Wait!

A jury of OUR peers in criminal court said OJ was innocent of murder.

Maybe my attorney is right after all.

[trsent]

Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

I'm not moving to Cuba. Bonds is guilty of cheating. WWF is entertainment (low quality entertainment for low IQ fans) and not a sport, and yes they abuse roids like crazy. The American public has heard of the steroids in baseball scandal. People take sports and sports history very seriously, because it is important to us. OJ did it.

You know, I should comment point by point above:

- You should move to Cuba, there you can join the government that doesn't have the freedoms that you appreciate in this county every day.

- Bonds has never been proven to cheat. Even if he used the substance that you claim makes him a cheater, it wasn't against the rules of his sport at the time. Ex post facto is a major part of our legal system. Look it up and learn.

- WWF stands for World Wildlife Fund. What is your issue bashing them? A court of law determined that WWF could only be used by this group, so I have no idea what you are talking about bashing those that help endangered animals. You should be ashamed of yourself! I bet there is very little Steroid abuse in The World Wildlife Fund, if any at all.

- The American public has not heard about the Baseball Steroid ordeal. I would venture 20 - 30% of the public has detailed knowledge of this ordeal. I would also guess around 10% of the total population cares. Do you really think every person in this country cares about your cherished sport? I know the answer, it is no. I love the history it brings, but if you wish to compare baseball stats or stats of something that means something to our history as a country, you know where I stand.

- and finally, once again - A criminal jury of your peers (yes, US Citizens) deemed OJ was innocent of murder. He was freed from jail and I believe he has not served since. This is the criminal system offered in our country, if you don't like it, you know the saying.

- I should also mention, I do not take your comments as a personal attack against me. Debate is great, just understand, we may not agree but we have the freedom to discuss.

[yanks12025]

Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

Any one that does take or did should be kicked out of baseball because they cheated. They have to cheat to be the best. If this goes on then america wont have good sports any more.

[trsent]

Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

Any one that does take or did should be kicked out of baseball because they cheated. They have to cheat to be the best. If this goes on then america wont have good sports any more.

How did anyone cheat?

Using Steroids was not illegal by the rules of baseball.

Wagering on baseball was illegal by the rules of baseball.

Now it is illegal to use Steroids by the rules of baseball. For over 125 years it was not illegal - SO PER EX POST FACTO WHAT CRIME MAY HAVE BEEN COMMITTED?

If the glove does not fit, you must acquit.

What is really funny is that Barry Bonds has not even been convicted in a court of law set by our peers that he did anything illegal - So get over it.

He will be a first ballot Hall-of-Fame Member, and he may even break Hank Aaron's All-Time Home Run record, and there will not be an asterisk next to his name, no matter how much you whine about it on GUU or anywhere else for that matter.

HE DIDN'T BREAK ANY RULES OF THE GAME, WHICH HAS IT'S OWN RULEBOOK.