Bo Jackson Jerseys?????

[hblakewolf]

Forum Readers-

As we all know, ScoreBoard offered Bo Jackson home jerseys for sale. These were tagged and manufactured as gamers.

Please see the current auction on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bo-Jackson-Royals-1989-Game-Issued-Used-Worn-Jersey_W0QQitemZ8767712510QQcategoryZ60597QQrdZ1QQ cmdZViewItem

Earlier in the month, the same seller offered:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=60597&item=8760827495

Whats' odd on both of these jerseys is that they are set 2. How often do you see a Rawlings Set 2 tag? Likewise, the 16 on both jerseys appears to be positioned too close to the seam and the buttons. It should be positioned further over near to the S in ROYALS. Compare the jersey in question to the photo in the seller's offering and you notice the difference in the positioning.

Thoughts?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[byergo]

I've never seen or heard of a Scoreboard Bo game jersey for sale. The Bo jerseys look good to me, and I won't hesitate to buy one. I'm not surprised based on my hobby experience that there could be 3 or 4 jerseys with the same year/set tag for a major superstar player.

[hblakewolf]

Let me ask you this-how many LEGIT set 2 Rawlings jerseys (especially commons) from 1987-1991 have you seen?

In all of the 1987-1991 Rawlings Phillies jerseys I purchased directly from the team (300 shirts), I had 1 set 2. Likewise, I can't remember more than 4 Rawlings set 2 jerseys I have seen with team documentation in the hobby in all of my years! Like the Jackson in question, it appears that there are a tremendous amount of 1990 and 1991 Rawlings set 2 jerseys in the hobby, all star players, never the commons.

You indicate you are comfortable buying the Bo Jackson jersey in question. Knowing that ScoreBoard sold the exact same jersey, and that the same seller has offered 2 set 2 1989 Bo Jackson jerseys?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[byergo]

Bo was the most exciting and talented player in the two biggest American sports: football and baseball. Back in 1989/1990 he was the most popular athlete on the planet. I'm sure he went through a number of jerseys and wore them, autographed them and donated them for charities, gave them to friends and business associates, etc...

End of story. No big conspiracy here! Point blank, I'm comfortable buying them. If you aren't that's fine with me. More power to you!

[hblakewolf]

Bo was the most exciting and talented player in the two biggest American sports: football and baseball. Back in 1989/1990 he was the most popular athlete on the planet. I'm sure he went through a number of jerseys and wore them, autographed them and donated them for charities, gave them to friends and business associates, etc...

End of story. No big conspiracy here! Point blank, I'm comfortable buying them. If you aren't that's fine with me. More power to you!

Byergo-
I commend you for taking the time to at least be open minded to a huge red flag on these jerseys, and likewise, support your decision based on research and facts, rather than simply emotion.

Hats off to you!

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[trsent]

Bo was the most exciting and talented player in the two biggest American sports: football and baseball. Back in 1989/1990 he was the most popular athlete on the planet. I'm sure he went through a number of jerseys and wore them, autographed them and donated them for charities, gave them to friends and business associates, etc...

End of story. No big conspiracy here! Point blank, I'm comfortable buying them. If you aren't that's fine with me. More power to you!

Here is a link where we were discussing these jerseys earlier in the month:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=1490

I stated in the previous post that these all matched the jerseys Scoreboard released. I didn't state that anyone's jerseys were not legitimate, but pretty neat how many Bo Jackson 1989 Set 2 jerseys are for sale as "game issued" and "game used" when The Scoreboard released the same exact 1989 Set 2 jerseys back in 1989-1990.

[hblakewolf]

Joel/Rudy-
And here is the third 1989 home Bo, set 2 that is available. AMAZING how 3 of the EXACT same jerseys are available within 60 days, all set 2!

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=24628

God love these ScoreBoard non-game jerseys!

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[kingjammy24]

Byergo:

Allow me to put in my 2 cents on this topic. Given the niche of jerseys I collect, it's difficult for me to imagine many more exciting pieces than a legit, game-worn 1989 Bo Jackson jersey. Bo was in his prime and was one of the most exciting players at the time. (Although he lasted longer, Deion Sanders seemed like a poor man's "two sport star" when compared to Bo.) I read with envy about your 1989 All-Star Game used Bo Jackson bat. Given his famous homerun in that game, it's an absolutely phenominal piece to own. Truly one of a kind.

Having said all of that, and being a big fan of Bo Jackson, I personally wouldn't touch these jerseys with a 10 foot pole. Here are my reasons:

1) While I'm also fully aware that many superstar players are typically issued more jerseys than their common player teammates, you also need to take into account that this practice wasn't nearly as prevalent in 1989 as it became later on. To think that stars back then were issued as many jerseys as stars today is inaccurate. I personally find the notion that Bo was genuinely issued (as opposed to ordered for the sake of distributing) a minimum of 8 jerseys in 1989 to be unlikely. Although technically possible, I prefer not to take risks on "unlikely" jerseys. I'd rather save my money for the "likely" jerseys void of huge red flags.

2) I find it extremely odd that of all of the numerous jerseys that Bo Jackson supposedly ordered in 1989, the only ones that seem to be making their way to the market are set 2 home jerseys. I've never seen their road Set 2 counterparts, nor have I ever seen any 1989 set 1's from either home or road. Have you?
Doesn't that seem to indicate that a disproportionate number of 1989 set 2 home jerseys were ordered? For what possible purpose? You say that it's because a superstar like Bo would've gone through numerous jerseys. If that's your hypothesis, then wouldn't he have also gone through numerous set 1's? or numerous set 1 or 2 road jerseys as well?
Where is the logic in thinking that he only went through numerous home, set 2 jerseys? His friends, business associates, etc somehow how stipulated to him that they all wanted only set 2, home jerseys? Obviously that's complete nonsense. Where are all of the numerous Set 1 & 2 road jerseys that he gave away? Where are all of the Set 1 home jerseys he gave away? If he truly ordered numerous jerseys then don't you think some of them should've popped up as easily as all of these Set 2 home jerseys?
As I said, I've never ever seen any 1989 Set 2 road jerseys or 1989 Set 1 road jerseys.

3) It is well known that Scoreboard sold jerseys of this style signed by the major stars of the day. One of the most prevalent seemed to be Jose Canseco. How's this for a coincidence: the Canseco Scoreboard jerseys were also only home, set 2 jerseys. Again, just like with the Bo Jacksons, where are Jose's Set 2 road jerseys? Where as his set 1's?
Byergo, I've seen 20 of these autographed, 1990 Set 2 Cansecos. I think the notion that Jose was genuinely issued 20 Set 2 home jerseys in 1990 is ludicrous. I have little doubt these are Scoreboard jerseys.Spanning the period from 1989-1991, I have seen 3 legit Canseco gamers. They were all Set 1's and two were road jerseys. Yet I've seen 20 Set 2 home jerseys from 1990. Personally, those differences in quantity between home/road/set 1/set 2 are far too substantial for me to ignore. I'll save my money for a road, set 1. IE: a jersey that I know Scoreboard didn't sell.

4) These are the only jerseys I have seen that bear a 1989 flag tag on a 1990/1991 Rawlings tag. The overwhelming majority of 1989 tagged jerseys I've seen were affixed to a 1989 Rawlings tag. Was Bo really that special that Rawlings somehow travelled into the future and issued jerseys to him that the majority of MLB players weren't getting?

Here is the tagging from a 1989 Royals jersey. The tagging shows the correct 1989 Rawlings tag. Why were other Royals receiving correct 1989-style Rawlings jerseys in 1989, while Bo was apparently getting 1990-style Rawlings jerseys in 1989?

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/9342/royals5zo.jpg

If after considering all of these facts, you still feel that it's likely that Bo was genuinely issued these jerseys from the Royals in 1989, then you've got more faith that I do.

Rudy.

[byergo]

Rudy,
I appreciate the info. and well though out research. I don't fault you for making up your mind and putting your money where your mouth is (or saving your money for what you consider a safer bet).

[trsent]

Rudy,
I appreciate the info. and well though out research. I don't fault you for making up your mind and putting your money where your mouth is (or saving your money for what you consider a safer bet).

So, Byergo, do you retract your statement from the post below, or do you still stand by your comments below?


Bo was the most exciting and talented player in the two biggest American sports: football and baseball. Back in 1989/1990 he was the most popular athlete on the planet. I'm sure he went through a number of jerseys and wore them, autographed them and donated them for charities, gave them to friends and business associates, etc...

End of story. No big conspiracy here! Point blank, I'm comfortable buying them. If you aren't that's fine with me. More power to you!

[byergo]

I'm still a buyer for this Bo material, and I'm glad others are not (keeping my price down). But I can understand others well reasoned opinions on the matter who may feel differently, and I respect their opinion.

[trsent]

So, you are stating you feel these jerseys are all game used and game issued as advertised by the various sellers?

Please elaborate, The Scoreboard, Inc. released these jerseys back in 1990. Rudy has proven the tagging to be 1990 style, and not 1989, I am backing him up by stating from the start that The Scoreboard released identical jerseys back around 1990.

So, you are telling us that even with photo evidence from Rudy about the tagging from 1989 - 1990, that you would still buy one of these jerseys as game used and re-sell it to a customer as game used even though it is known that The Scoreboard, Inc. sold these jerseys as authentic, autographed jerseys?

Remember, Rudy has showed that the tagging does not match 1989 Royal jerseys. He claims it matches 1990 style of tagging.

Once again, please tell me point blank - You would buy one of these with confidence that they are game used or game issued (whatever the seller states) and have no problem re-selling them with those terms even though the tagging is impossible to have been from a game used or issued item?

[Spiezio23]

I'm still a buyer for this Bo material, and I'm glad others are not (keeping my price down). But I can understand others well reasoned opinions on the matter who may feel differently, and I respect their opinion.


This really boggles my mind, are you by chance the seller of these Jackson jerseys on eBay? if not I would also like to know why you feel these are all legit gamers, given the facts that have been provided thus far.


-Jeremy

[BULBUS]

jeremy, that was my guess, he is the seller. there is no way, after the evidence presented, that anyone can think that is an authentic gamer.

[trsent]

Well, he has been logged on to GUF a few times now since my post above and has not replied to my question, so I guess they don't wish to continue this conversation.

[byergo]

I'm NOT the seller. I really have nothing else to add to this conversation, and won't be checking back on the thread. Thanks.

[trsent]

I'm NOT the seller. I really have nothing else to add to this conversation, and won't be checking back on the thread. Thanks.

I understand, you won't admit that your comments were insane based on the evidence offered. I never accused you of being the seller, but you ignored my request to let us know that you would have no problem buying or selling any of these jerseys that are legitimate jerseys, but were more likely not game issued or game used. Since The Scoreboard sold these jerseys in 1990 with 1990 style tagging dated 1989, I would assume it would be a dead give-a-way.

Instead, run away from the thread without commenting on your comments that you have no problem with these jerseys as being genuine.

I like your stance, you are wrong and you have mislead others in this discussion without backing up your stance, so you should not check back on this discussion because that is an easy way out.

[trsent]

I'm NOT the seller. I really have nothing else to add to this conversation, and won't be checking back on the thread. Thanks.

byergo http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/images/statusicon/user_online.gif
Member
Last Activity: Today 03:13 PM
Viewing Thread Bo Jackson Jerseys????? (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=1556) @ 03:13 PM


Oh good, at least you checked back in on this thread after I made my last post...

[kingjammy24]

I'd like to wrap this thread up with 2 final thoughts. Personally, I think that what Byergo decides to spend his money on is his business.

In case some were wondering what I was referring to regarding the whole 1989 vs 1990 Rawlings tag, here is an image of a 1989-style Rawlings tag next to a 1990-style Rawlings tag. Note the differences. I believe 1990 was a revision year for Rawlings manufacturer tags.

http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/2779/rings3ey.jpg

Lastly, before I go into my final thought, I'd like to preface it by saying that in no way, shape, or form am I implying that these are possibly Byergo's motives or intentions. I'm simply saying this as a general thought without referring to anyone specifically.

A few have asked why would anyone purchase these Scoreboard jerseys.
I'd like to offer one possibility:

Scoreboard 1989, Set 2, autographed, home Bo Jackson purchased on Ebay as "game-issued": $700

1989, Set 2, autographed, home Bo Jackson jersey with the same odd 1990 tag, sold as "game worn", auctioned off by AMI: price realized - over $1800

Same deal with the Scoreboard 1990 Canseco's. You can pick one up on Ebay for about $200. They'll typically be auctioned off for at least $600. In 2002, Lelands auctioned off a 1990, set 2, home, autographed, "game worn", Canseco for $1098.

Not a bad day's work for some.

Rudy.

[trsent]

Rudy, are you sure you don't want to start a photo-matching authenticity service with me?

You could be paid for all the time you spend photo-matching jerseys all day.

[sylbry]

It seems as if it is a safe bet to say this jersey will resurface as a game worn jersey. Afterall, it is the only way to justify someone paying $1,125 on a game issued jersey.

Also, the seller claims it is "guaranteed to pass Grey Flannel or Global Authentication." That seems highly unlikely being that there is a problem with the tagging.

[hblakewolf]

It seems as if it is a safe bet to say this jersey will resurface as a game worn jersey. Afterall, it is the only way to justify someone paying $1,125 on a game issued jersey.

Also, the seller claims it is "guaranteed to pass Grey Flannel or Global Authentication." That seems highly unlikely being that there is a problem with the tagging.

Based on previous LOA's issued by Grey Flannel and Global, you may want to rethink your statement, "That seems highly unlikely being that there is a problem with the tagging". Where do I place my bet on this one? I would put my money on the sellers guarantee.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net