Mark Sutton: Unworn Orioles style?

[kingjammy24]

Mark (or anyone else),

Isn't this a style that the Orioles never actually wore? Or I mistaken?
It's a 1995 Cal Ripken, "game used" GAI-authenticated jersey with sleeve and neck piping.

Ebay Item number: 6606501488

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fse arch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26satitle%3D6606501488%26fvi %3D1&item=6606501488


Rudy.

[suave1477]

KingJammy well I would say it seems to be the real thing that was actually worn, there is a lot of provenance behind it. It has a steiner holo on it which means most likely it was game used if not at least game issued, it also has cal ripkens auto on it and has a few inscriptions, has the tagging for a game issued / game used. It also comes with 2 LOA'S (GAI and Lou Lampson)

It looks good but I also would like to see specificly what the LOA'S say.

[kingjammy24]

It seems Universal Rarities is currently auctioning off on Ebay the same 1995 Ripken black alt. jersey they sold in Dec 2005?

Here is the original UR auction for the jersey:

http://www.urauctions.com/site/bid/bidplace.asp?itemid=3448&getauctionid=56

Here is the current Ebay auction from UR for the same jersey:

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay .com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26sat itle%3D6606501488%26fvi%3D1&item=6606501488

Here is the original thread that ensued from the first time this jersey was put out on to the market:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=554


Rudy.

[suave1477]

KingJammy as far as them selling it before and them selling it again, the only thing i can think of is who ever bid on it the first time decided they couldnt afford it. So they are now listing it again, but now on ebay to get rid of it quicker!!!

I read the old thread you included it doesn't tell me much all it says is it is a peeing contest of who knows more about the jersey and no one has a clue about.

Ok this might sound crazy, but i notice constantly people have issues with game used jerseys.
Why don't you guys actually try to contact the orioles directly and ask them whether its the administrative office or the equipment manager or better yet call russell or rawlings or wilson or whoever is making the jersey your concerned about.

I mean it seems here everyone relys on best guess, WHY NOT JUST GO AND ASK DIRECTLY FROM THE SOURCE???????

[bigtime59]

KingJammy as far as them selling it before and them selling it again, the only thing i can think of is who ever bid on it the first time decided they couldnt afford it. So they are now listing it again, but now on ebay to get rid of it quicker!!!

I read the old thread you included it doesn't tell me much all it says is it is a peeing contest of who knows more about the jersey and no one has a clue about.

Ok this might sound crazy, but i notice constantly people have issues with game used jerseys.
Why don't you guys actually try to contact the orioles directly and ask them whether its the administrative office or the equipment manager or better yet call russell or rawlings or wilson or whoever is making the jersey your concerned about.

I mean it seems here everyone relys on best guess, WHY NOT JUST GO AND ASK DIRECTLY FROM THE SOURCE???????

Suave:
Go to the Orioles if you like...the answer is likely to be either "don't know," or "don't care." They've proven to me, time and again, that I know more about their jerseys than they do, because I care more than they do. I am not an "authenticator," and I don't play one on TV, but if that jersey isn't fake, I''ll pay off your mortgage...are you willing to pay off mine when it's proven to be fake?

[bigtime59]

Mark (or anyone else),

Isn't this a style that the Orioles never actually wore? Or I mistaken?
It's a 1995 Cal Ripken, "game used" GAI-authenticated jersey with sleeve and neck piping.

Ebay Item number: 6606501488

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fse arch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26satitle%3D6606501488%26fvi %3D1&item=6606501488


Rudy.

Rudy:
It's as bogus this time as it was last time. Run screaming in the other direction.
Mark

[suave1477]

I see the problem here on gameuseduniverse people do not read posts throughly, I would just appreciate if your going to make a comment about my posts please read it all the way through before commenting!!!!

Pay off your mortgage? Ummmm I never said this jersey was real or fake so why would you make such a challenge to me?

Second of all if they are not cooperative the orioles maybe your just not getting though the right way to the right person???????

Third of all I did mention contacting the actual Jersey manufactures I am sure they have some kind of log on record for what types of jersey are sent every season to each team!!!!

If you want to contact either sources and they are not cooperative there are more ways then one then just asking one person from that company or team!!! It all depends how persistent you are!!

[kingjammy24]

Suave:

- If the old thread tells you nothing, then I suggest you read it again. At a bare minimum, it says that to the best knowledge of the people in the thread (some of whom have collected a substantial number of Orioles jerseys), no evidence can be found of the Orioles ever actually wearing that style of jersey. Considering evidence can easily be found of them wearing home jerseys, road jerseys, and bp jerseys in 1995, why is it that no evidence at all can be found of them wearing these black alts with neck piping?

- You said the jersey "has a lot of provenance". Provenance specifically refers to where an item came from. I don't see a single word in the auction describing where it came from. That is, I don't believe the jersey has any provenance whatsoever. (Saying it came from UR hardly qualifies as provenance). Since you think this jersey has "a lot" of it, can you please tell me what the provenance of this jersey is? That is, where did UR obtain it from?
(Provenance does not mean the same thing as an item being authenticated. Provenance solely refers to an item's origins. An item with great provenance can sometimes turn out not to be legit (See: Pete Incaviglia's BP jersey). Conversely, an item can be authenticated as legit and have poor provenance.)

- "cal ripkens auto on it and has a few inscriptions"

What bearing does Cal's signature have on the item being gameused?

"Why don't you guys actually try to contact the orioles directly and ask them whether its the administrative office or the equipment manager"

Calling up the Orioles administrative offices and asking whether a black alternate jersey worn 11 years ago had neck & sleeve piping or just sleeve piping? Good luck with that one. Likewise for calling up and telling the switchboard you "want to speak with the equipment manager".

"better yet call russell or rawlings or wilson or whoever is making the jersey your concerned about."

There is not a single doubt in my mind that Russell did indeed make this Ripken jersey. I'm curious though how on earth Russell would possibly know if the Orioles actually ended up wearing it in 1995 or not. Louisville Slugger can tell you they shipped 20 bats to Griffey. They have no way of knowing if he used them or not.

"WHY NOT JUST GO AND ASK DIRECTLY FROM THE SOURCE???????"

Equipment managers typically don't hang around for 15 yrs. Neither do front office staff. Those that do, usually don't remember arcane details like exactly what sort of piping was worn on a specific jersey 11 yrs ago. Finally, many of them don't have the inclination to spend an hour on the phone with a stranger discussing this. Hang on though, I'll put a call in to Peter Angelos and see if he knows anything about this.

Darren Daulton doesn't even know what shinguards or glove he used in the World Series, yet somehow Tammy in the Orioles office is going to know all about the 1995 black alternate piping issue.

Rudy.

[suave1477]

Rudy:
It's as bogus this time as it was last time. Run screaming in the other direction.
Mark

bigtime your the pot calling the kettle black, your sitting here telling us its fake run the other direction, but you haven't given any factual info for us to believe otherwise. That would be like me saying everyone don't listen to bigtime he's crazy!!

Just becuz you say something I am supposed to believe it!!

Then maybe you will fall for this - Hey Bigtime I will sell you the brooklyn Bridge for a dollar, and if you place your order in the next 30 minutes I will throw in the Golden Gate bridge for free. I will ship them both to you, right to your door step.
Don't wait this deal is not going to last forever, operators are standing by lol lol:D

[kingjammy24]

Mark: Thanks as always for your reply.

Suave:
first: "KingJammy well I would say it seems to be the real thing that was actually worn"
then: "Ummmm I never said this jersey was real.."

"I did mention contacting the actual Jersey manufactures I am sure they have some kind of log on record for what types of jersey are sent every season to each team"

So if I call Russell and they say in 1995, they sent the Orioles black alts with neck piping, how does this have any relevance to the issues at hand?

Nobody is wondering who made the jersey. Nobody doubts that in 1995 Russell made these for the Orioles. The issue is whether the Orioles actually wore them, and Russell would have no clue whatsoever about that.

Rudy.

[suave1477]

King Jammy you missed my point, as far as the old thread all everyone did say was that they are not familiar with the orioles using that jersey / does not mean by any law that they didnt they could have used them for one game, they could have used them for a week. my point is no one knows for sure.

As far as making contacts to the sources I am not saying specificly to ask bob or john at these companies if they know about the jersey all I am saying is ask if they have some kind of Log order showing these particular jerseys were sent to the orioles / or asking the orioles if they ever placed an order like that. You would be surprised how much people are willing to help you if your just nice to them and how much info they can dig up for you.

I apologize about using the word provenance in the context I used it in, i used i wrong but I also said ,if you read it, I would like to read exactly what the LOA'S say. All I am saying is its has 3 ties to Authenticators, that seems a bit much to have 3 ties to authenticators for just a retail autographed cal ripken jersey.


MY POINT IS THIS I AM NOT SAYING IT IS REAL OR FAKE, ALL I AM SAYING IS EVERYONE ALWAYS GOES BY BEST GUESS WHEN I AM SURE SOMEWHREE OUT THERE, THERE IS MORE CONCRETE EVIDENCE OF WHERE A JERSEY OR BAT CAME FROM, AND IT SEEMS NO ONE IS WILLING TO GO THE EXTRA MILE TO FIND OUT!!!

[bigtime59]

Sauve:
If you re-read the old thread carefully, you will see that I said the jersey could not be game worn because:
a) the Orioles did not wear their alternate jerseys in 1995
and
b) that style script did not exist until late 1996
and
c) the numbers on the jersey are the wrong font

Other than that, the signature may be OK.

And the mortgage thing? That was intended to be a humorous way of expressing how confident I am that this jersey is not legit.

[suave1477]

Ok bigtime i hear what your saying as far as the fonts and the scripts. I am not saying you wrong all i am about to ask you is why would you think this jersey would be accepted by 3 other authenticators?

[kingjammy24]

There weren't 3 authenticators. There was only 1.

- Lou Lampson is irrelevant and can hardly be called an authenticator with any seriousness so that takes care of 1.

- Steiner is not an authenticator. They're a company that obtains items directly from the original source (team or athlete) and then directly sells these items. They don't obtain 3rd party items, auction off consignments, or authenticate items sent to them. They're a dealer. That takes care of 2.

(And honestly, I have no clue what their role is in this Ripken jersey. All I can imagine is their hologram pertains solely to the Ripken signature and not the jersey. Other than that, I'm unaware of any arrangement that Steiner had with the Orioles or Cal Ripken regarding game-used equipment. If Steiner obtained this jersey directly from the Orioles, then there would be no need for GAI or Lampson authentication.)

So you're left with 1: GAI.


Rudy.

[trsent]

- Steiner is not an authenticator. They're a company that obtains items directly from the original source (team or athlete) and then directly sells these items. They don't obtain 3rd party items, auction off consignments, or authenticate items sent to them. They're a dealer. That takes care of 2.


I know years ago Steiner bought The Gloria Rothstein collection and placed their holograms on merchandise bought from this collection. I am sure all items were authentic, but it makes it hard to state that they don't (or ever have) obtained 3rd party items, because they have.

[suave1477]

KingJammy your actually wrong Steiner has and does obtain 3rd party items. so were back up to 2. As far as lampson whether you like him or not that is your opinion he is still considered and authenticator so now were back up to 3.

[allstarsplus]

I read the description of the auction and my "take" on the Steiner hologram is strictly the authentication for the Ripken signature and not for the game use. Unless someone has a LOA/COA that says anything different, that's what I would think. You can probably confirm that theory with Steiner.

I also couldn't find that jersey in the '95 Orioles picture archives.

Andrew
info@AllstarsPlus.com