89 nolan ryan game used rawling's

[zonker]

i have seen many 1989 nolan ryan autographed jersey's. i know ryan ordered quite a few to autograph for charity, scoreboard etc.. my question is. does anyone have a 89 ryan with the correct tagging for a 89 game used jersey? and befor everyone tell's me again that goodwin was nolan's 1st choice in jersey's. i know that . i counted atleast 20 games in 89 where nolan wore a rawling's jersey, proof by game pic's. so there have to be legit rawling's game used out there flaoting around and surely came with team c.o.a to back that up or something? any help would be appreciated.

[kingjammy24]

many of us have seen pics of ryan pitching in rawlings jerseys. in my experience, all of the pics i've seen were most likely of spring training games. do you have any pics clearly showing him pitching in rawlings jerseys in regular season games? i once saw a mears loa, for a rawlings ryan gamer, that said they had seen such pics and felt they were most likely regular season pics because of the density of the crowd seen behind ryan. that is, the tiny sliver of crowd seen behind ryan were dense enough that they couldn't have possibly been at a spring training game. apparently all spring training games are sparsely attended while all regular season games are packed to the rafters.

here is the tagging on some 1989 common player rangers jerseys:
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/9734/89rangersrb2.jpg

i'm not sure if you're asking this question in reference to this jersey:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350056818047

if you are, then i'd pay attention to the fact that the ebay ryan has a 1990, not 1989, style of rawlings tag. of course, i've seen some very rare legit 1989 gamers with 1990 tags (my theory is they were late season orders so they saw the new 1990 tags whereas most of the 1989 orders, which were placed in spring, had typical 1989 style tags). the point to note though is that 1989 scoreboard shirts had 1990 style rawlings tags. the 1989 bo jackson had 1990 style tags. all of the 1989 royals gamers i've seen had typical 1989 style rawlings tags. conversely, every single scoreboard 1989 bo jackson jersey i've seen has had 1990 style rawlings tags.

rudy.

[zonker]

thank's rudy i've been trying forever to clear a few thing's up regarding these jersey's and yes the 1 on ebay is the 1 that sparked the question for me for the 100th time. i thought that any jersey used in a game,spring or regular season was "game used". i have seen pic's of ryan in june and later wearing rawling's. ami has sold 1 of these jersey's with that type tagging in the past stating in description that the jersey's were issued and obtained directly from the ranger's equpiment manager. that's my confusion on them. all of the 89 ryan's i've ever seen have that "90"tagging. someone has to have a legit 89 w/team letter or ryan letter with it. these ryan jersey's and the "high logo" inscribed farve's are 2 i just can't figure. i received 1 of these ryan's a few years back with a lot and all the jersey's came with team c.o.a's except the ryan. i have noticed 1 varible within all those ryan jersey's some are signed in black on right chest and some blue on left chest. while assuming scoreboard would have to order there's somewhat differant than the legit team issued for the player, just for identification of them. maybe the strip tag instead of flag tag? 1" extra length? i just don't understand how scoreboard jersey's are any differant than the team issued as they were all supposedly ordered thru the team? if this is true and scoreboard obtained them that way,then wouldn't they still be considered properly tagged? as they still were issued thru the team? some auction houses state they were made to decieve all but the "savvy collector" by stating this does this mean they were ordered thru the team with the incorrect tagging? i wonder if troy has pic's of the one they authenticated and why they wouldn't want that particular one part of there public file to answear these type question's to maybe protect some of these buyer's, who think they are game used? atleast there customer's. these "scoreboard jersey's" seem to be dealt all the time. that's a shame cause there has to be legit one's out there if they were all taged alike and are probably being sold as signed scoreboard's?

[kingjammy24]

re: spring training vs regular season game use

i think that when a jersey is advertised as "game used", the reasonable assumption for most collectors is that it was used in the regular season. if a shirt was known to have been used only in spring training, i think it would be negligent to offer it simply as "game used" without any mention whatsoever that the use was entirely from spring training.

"i have seen pic's of ryan in june and later wearing rawling's"

can you show these pics?

"while assuming scoreboard would have to order there's somewhat differant than the legit team issued for the player, just for identification of them. maybe the strip tag instead of flag tag? 1" extra length? i just don't understand how scoreboard jersey's are any differant than the team issued as they were all supposedly ordered thru the team? if this is true and scoreboard obtained them that way,then wouldn't they still be considered properly tagged? as they still were issued thru the team?"

i don't think there is the assumption that scoreboard ordered their jerseys with some sort of intentional and necessary difference. why would scoreboard need any sort of id for differentiation? i don't think scoreboard, rawlings, or the players knew or cared that one day those jerseys would be sold as gamers. i don't believe the jerseys were ordered through the team. i believe they were ordered through the specific athletes under contract with scoreboard. as for how scoreboard shirts are any different than legit team issues, in many cases they aren't. the sizes, tagging, fonts, etc are all identical because they came directly from rawlings, made under the athlete's specs. it's my theory that players like canseco or griffey ordered these jerseys, for scoreboard, via their own channels, paid for them themselves and gave them over to scoreboard. i don't believe the teams were involved in deal between scoreboard and individual players.

that said, you bring up the issue of whether the tagging on these jerseys ought to be completely accurate and legit given the way they were ordered/obtained. for the most part, i'd say yes. however, the ryan may be some sort of wierd anomaly. i simply have never seen that style of strip tag on any 1988-1991 rangers gamer. i don't have an explanation for that. in some cases, jerseys were tagged by the teams rather than at the factory. for these jerseys, rawlings may not have known how the teams/equipment managers would strip tag the jersey. perhaps when ryan ordered some for scoreboard, rawlings came up with a guess (albeit an incorrect one) as to the strip tag?

for me, the things that suss out scoreboard shirts are the sheer volume of a particular year/style/set and the 1989/1990 tagging discrepancy. i think the discrepancy is a rare one. if it's so rare, then how is it that dozens of jackson's 1989 set 2 gamers all incurred this rare discrepancy? my guess is that the scoreboard jackson and ryan jerseys were ordered late in the 1989 season and that's all of them took got pegged with the newer 1990-style tag. what else could explain why such a rare anomaly was incurred by truckloads of jerseys?

i've seen the 1989 rawlings ryans that you refer to. as well i've seen ones from 1991 that were rawlings and had strip tags with "34 1" and "34 2".

"these "scoreboard jersey's" seem to be dealt all the time. that's a shame cause there has to be legit one's out there if they were all taged alike and are probably being sold as signed scoreboard's?"

well i think the 1989/1990 tag issue differentiates the jacksons and ryans. if i were to purchase a 1989 home jackson jersey, i'd prefer a set 1 and if it were a legit set 2, then i'd look for a proper 1988/89 style rawlings tag. as i said, all of the legit 1989 royals gamers i've seen had proper 1989-style rawlings tags.

the scoreboard 1990 cansecos on the other hand are pretty much perfect. they have a proper 1990 style rawlings tag and proper "2 90" strip tags. there's nothing to differentiate them from canseco's legit 1990, set 2 home gamer. i suppose it is a shame because it causes some collectors, like myself, to simply swear off all 1990 canseco home jerseys.

rudy.

[zonker]

thank's again that's alot of info i didn't know. i guess there's a differance between player issued and team issued. i will see if i can get copies of the pic's as they were taken by a proffesional photographer and are his. i recently purchased some mac pic's from him so i'll let you know on that. i might have to get someone to post as i don't know how. i guess the only way to be sure one way or another is to get with the equipment manager at the time or paul goldin? i think he was scoreboard? and show them a sample of one. i do know some came with the velcro strip in them from rawling's. the stitching goes thru the striping when they were sewn together. the same with the tagging and strip tags under it. i know at the time scoreboard was really offering something that was hard at the time to obtain from certain player's, but it sure hinders going after those player's from certain year's. for example like you say "canseco" if i wanted to collect 1 legit jersey from every year, could i do it and feel comfortable? it seem's ryan is the only exception as you can alway's go for the goodwin in 89. great info!