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View Full Version : Need help - 2 jerseys, same obscure player, major differences



gatorcollector
06-02-2008, 10:25 PM
OK this is weird. An offensive lineman from UF named Tony Rowell was drafted in the 6th round of the 1992 draft by the Raiders. As far as I can tell, he didn't make the team because he does not appear on their all-time roster on their website.

Now all of a sudden there are two Tony Rowell game used Raiders jerseys on Ebay. One is being offered by Ball Park Heroes, the other buy "ozzypie". And get this - they were posted within 21 minutes of each other!
Here are the two links:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140238039867&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=004

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220241573979&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=012

There are significant differences between the two jerseys. One is Sand Knit, the other is Wilson. One is a size 54, the other is a 50. One has the NFL logo in the collar, one does not. One has a cowl, one does not.

Let me make one thing clear - I am not saying there's any funny business going on here. First, I just wanted to point out what an amazing coincidence it is that there are two of Rowell's jerseys on Ebay at the same time. Second, I need your opinions as to why two jerseys with such significant differences would have been issued to the same player in the same pre-season.

jppopma
06-02-2008, 10:45 PM
Chances are that he tried out with the team more than one year. There are quite a few guys who will try, try, try again to make the team. He may have had some playing time in pre-season games in each season and then cut before the season started.

Still odd that they would both be listed so close to eachother. That should limit the bidding on each, if there was much interest to begin with.

gatorcollector
06-02-2008, 10:47 PM
Did a little more research... Found out Rowell was placed on injured reserve 8/26/1992. He went to camp in 93 and 94 with the Dolphins. I thought maybe he had gone to camp with the Raiders more than one year, but apparently that's not the case.

Is it possible one is a practice jersey and one is a gamer?

Made in Motown
06-03-2008, 09:56 AM
Many things are wrong with the SandKnit jersey. MacGregor went bankrupt in 1990, which would be the last year they made jerseys. I am pretty sure the Raiders switched from MacGregor to Wilson for the 1991 season. Rowell you say was drafted in '92. Even assuming this is a different "Rowell", the jersey itself is wrong. Raiders SandKnit jerseys were all mesh - mesh shoulders, mesh nameplate, etc. and this jersey has satin looking shoulders. I can't post pictures, but do a quick check for Bo Jackson and you will see what I am talking about.

Made in Motown
06-03-2008, 10:05 AM
http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/294034.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1934A2752006EF5F0ED28178EEB5A7021E7

BPH32
06-03-2008, 01:34 PM
This is our listing. Maybe you could check out www.gettyimages.com L.A. Raiders pictures from 1989: 51253445,51253442,56248246 and 51253444 which appear to show pictures of jerseys like the Rowell I have listed. I believe this is a jersey from that era recycled for later use. I can't say for sure when it was used but it is a legitimate jersey and does show some use including a couple of small hit marks and some wash wear. So I don't believe the jersey is "Just wrong" and since Rowell was there Am I missing something ? Won't be the first time and if so I am willing to listen.
Thanks, Kim

Made in Motown
06-03-2008, 02:41 PM
I am not an expert by any stretch, I just have never seen a SandKnit Raiders jersey that was not all mesh. Unless the photo is of a really close shot, it is really hard to tell the difference (two layers of black mesh look like solid black. Here are some close up examples:

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/247947.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1934A2752006EF5F0ED69B2FD08F78F721E

http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/387481.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193B3EA2C03450C9486A86A70ABEF7F8AC6

Link to another jersey from a collector - http://lionsfan71.tripod.com/other_teams/id145.html

All of these are from '89 and they all have mesh shoulders. The other photos appear too far away to tell, or don't have good enough lighting. In the short time I have been collecting I have learned that there are always quirks/exceptions w/ NFL jerseys, so this may be one. Hopefully a Raiders collector or someone with more knowledge on the subject can chime in.

BPH32
06-03-2008, 03:14 PM
You can zoom in on/enlarge the photos I mentioned and if you do you will see that the jerseys, I believe, are like the Rowell. Also the players pictured are linemen like Rowell.

Made in Motown
06-03-2008, 03:48 PM
I still think those jerseys you pointed out are mesh, it's the lighting that makes it difficult to tell. Check out these two photos from the same photoshoot of Howie wearing the same jersey.

Clearly Mesh
http://www.sportsmemorabilia.com/files/cache/howie-long-autographed-oakland-raiders-16x20-photo-with-hof-00-inscription_26a376bbe4ed82f37ee63b55bb78823b.jpg


Jersey does not look mesh.
http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/si_online/covers/images/1985/0722_large.jpg

I also appologize for saying your jersey is wrong. It may be a jersey from '90 used in '92 and some of the jerseys may have had a satin looking material for the shoulders, both are plausible explenations. I am just saying that I have never seen one, and the getty photos are inconclusive. Hopefully someone with better photos, actual jerseys or actual firsthand kowledge can help fill us in.

lon lewis
06-03-2008, 06:08 PM
Motown, I think that you may want to check out these photos on Getty before you get too carried away on the Sand Knit jerseys only having mesh shoulders and sleeves for the Raiders. From 1989 # 51253442 Howie Long dated 10/29/89,# 80443128 Trey Junkin dated 10/15/89, # 75618618 dated10/1/89, # 242868 Bruce Wilkerson dated 10/29/89, #51253444 group shot but look at player # 52. From 1990 # 76186880 Steve Smith, # 71464634 Bob Golic dated 12/16/90, # 297427 Ricky Ellison dated 12/30/90, #71891105 Ethan Horton dated 11/1/90, #297460 James Fitzpatrick dated 10/14/90, #297423 Rory Graves dated 10/14/90 and # 51253447 Howie Long dated 12/9/90. All show those players wearing dazzle cloth shoulders and sleeves.

gatorcollector
06-03-2008, 08:22 PM
As a member of the UF Alumni Association, I have access to an on-line Alumni Directory. I looked up Tony Rowell and there was an e-mail address in his profile. I e-mailed him about this and hopefully I will get a response.

A GUU member e-mailed me with the possibility that the Sand Knit jersey may have belonged to a player named Gene Rowell. Gene Rowell was an offensive lineman who played in one game in 1987, possibly as a replacement player. Maybe Gene Rowell went to camp with the Raiders sometime during the Sand Knit era.

Made in Motown
06-03-2008, 08:41 PM
You are definately right, my research in the past has entirely been focused on Bo Jackson. I still have not found any of him w/ dazzle shoulder cloth, but it must have been personal preference. Not only did other players have dazzle shoulders, but some had spandex inserts. My mistake, but now I know better. Check out Bob Golic - it looks like he had dazzle/spandex material all the way to the end of his numbers, but mesh below the numbers. Getty image #71464632.

http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/71464632.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193875DCB1DD8387ABB6E306493EE0FF15A 4E9C89C783688B46

BPH32
06-03-2008, 09:16 PM
This Rowell jersey is like the Golic you saw in the getty picture you described. Sounds to me like this may be Gene Rowell as the time frame fits better. Does anybody have training camp rosters from circa 1987-1993 ? I am going to take down my listing till I get further info.
Thanks, Kim