2003 Pujols Jersey on eBay with Grey Flannel Letter

[moderncollector]

The seller told me the MEARS worksheet was obtained directly from Mastro, after he had sent it off to them. I find this suspect as MEARS had promised to not work with any auction house other than Robert Edward Auctions. Either MEARS lied, or Mastro is using third party's to have MEARS look at consignments since they are not able to use MEARS directly. MEARS promised to punish that behavior.

Any thoughts about the jersey either?


http://cgi.ebay.com/Cardinals-Albert-Pujols-SIGNED-Game-Used-Jersey-MEARS_W0QQitemZ220249825371QQihZ012QQcategoryZ6059 7QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[hblakewolf]

This shirt has more lives than a black cat!

http://www.gameuseduniverse.net/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=6277&highlight=pujols+jersey+steinmetz

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@comcast.net

[Eric]

The seller told me the MEARS worksheet was obtained directly from Mastro, after he had sent it off to them.

When was it sent? I'm a bit confused about what you're questioning...

[trsent]

I guess he updated his listing, here is text I just found in the item's description:

"A known message board attempting, but failing, in the attempt to be a high class auction house was selling a signed Pujols signed gamer in their last auction, and it went for $6,000+."

I guess he is taking a shot at Game Used Universe. I talked to Chris and Rob at a trade show in Chicago a few weeks ago and they gave me the impression they are pleased with the progress of their auctions so I have no clue what these comments in their description mean.

[jimbo]

Two observations:

1. I was under the impression that Albert had his jerseys cut without tails. This jersey has tails.

2. I see a copy of the MEARS worksheet, but there's no MEARS LOO.

A review of the MEARS worksheet identifies several red flags:

1. MEARS also noted that the jersey sizing is inconsistent with the tagging. The jersey is tagged as a 48. The chest measures out at 52. If he actually wore this jersey, Albert would be swimming in it. He generally appears to fill out his jerseys. Size 48 has been his size since the most of 2001.

2. MEARS could not identify the year of manufacture. "UNKNOWN 2003-2005" is noted on the worksheet. According to authenticgamers.com, a majority (99%) of Cards jerseys in 2003 did not have a year tag following the move to Majestic. Following the switch to Majestic, authenticgamers.com notes that dozens of questionable Pujols game used examples surfaced.

3. The MEARS worksheet does not have signatures of the authenticators. Was there enough information obtained in the course of the eval to conclude that MEARS was unable to authenticate?

I assumed all jerseys submitted to MEARS at a minimum, would have a worksheet to document the eval, but those jerseys that MEARS concludes are game used would have a LOO with a final grade.

[Eric]

The seller told me the MEARS worksheet was obtained directly from Mastro, after he had sent it off to them. I find this suspect as MEARS had promised to not work with any auction house other than Robert Edward Auctions. Either MEARS lied, or Mastro is using third party's to have MEARS look at consignments since they are not able to use MEARS directly. MEARS promised to punish that behavior.

Any thoughts about the jersey either?


http://cgi.ebay.com/Cardinals-Albert-Pujols-SIGNED-Game-Used-Jersey-MEARS_W0QQitemZ220249825371QQihZ012QQcategoryZ6059 7QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

moderncollector-

please clarify your questions about this item here. you seem to be calling it into question, but i'm not entirely sure what your point is.

[bigtruck260]

The MEARS letter does not look right.

Eric - I think he is trying to say that the auction house passed the jersey along to a third party...who in turn took it to MEARS for evaluation...then returned it to the auction house.

[Eric]

interesting re-listing

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220251675384

"Authentic autographed Albert Pujols game Worn Jerseys have been selling for between $6000 and $8500 in recent sports memorabilia auctions. This jersey is signed and is game worn from Albert's best season, 2003. Grey Flannel provided a LOA for this jersey. The hand written initials described in the Grey Flannel LOA need to be looked at in a better light than my camera provides. eBay approved authenticator GAI has authenticated the 2007 signed Albert Pujols 100% authentic signature. Game Used Universe along with American Memorabilia are in my opinion, the worst auction houses in America 'and even they are bringing in $5,000+ for Pujols signed Game Used Jerseys."

[frikativ54]

interesting re-listing

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220251675384

"Authentic autographed Albert Pujols game Worn Jerseys have been selling for between $6000 and $8500 in recent sports memorabilia auctions. This jersey is signed and is game worn from Albert's best season, 2003. Grey Flannel provided a LOA for this jersey. The hand written initials described in the Grey Flannel LOA need to be looked at in a better light than my camera provides. eBay approved authenticator GAI has authenticated the 2007 signed Albert Pujols 100% authentic signature. Game Used Universe along with American Memorabilia are in my opinion, the worst auction houses in America 'and even they are bringing in $5,000+ for Pujols signed Game Used Jerseys."

I usually don't get involved in these discussions, but I thought I'd mention that sometimes this bad publicity might get more people to take note of GUU. A lot of watchers of this item will have their curiosity piqued by the listing and will come on this website. Many may stay, when they realized that the Game Used Forums are about educating the collector. Just another way of looking at things.

[Fnazxc0114]

thats cool that he sent a shoutout to kyle hess.

[frikativ54]

thats cool that he sent a shoutout to kyle hess.

And he quoted me. I don't understand things like this. Why do I need to be brought into this discussion? I thought that the publicity would potentially help GUU, so I am now quoted on an eBay auction. I put my contact information on every post, so I think that it is only right that I am written before my material is quoted verbatim on another site.

[frikativ54]

It has now been relisted: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220251675384.

[CollectGU]

Is it true that this jersey originated with Rob Steinmetz as he states?

[hblakewolf]

Is it true that this jersey originated with Rob Steinmetz as he states?

Dave-
This jersey has been discussed in a previous thread:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.net/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=6277&highlight=pujols+jersey+steinmetz

See post #7

According to Rob, this jersey did not originate from him.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@comcast.net

[frikativ54]

What I don't understand is what any bickering between GUU members and the seller has to do with the item. I mean, if the guy thinks that the Game Used Forums aren't a good source of information, then that's great - he doesn't have to post or bid in the auction. But what does Game Used Universe's reputation, either good or bad, have to do with the Pujols jersey in question? The true question is whether or not the item is authentic. And the seller only detracts from the true point by attacking the reputation of this website. All we are asking for is proof that the Pujols jersey is a legitimately game-used item.

[hblakewolf]

What I don't understand is what any bickering between GUU members and the seller has to do with the item. I mean, if the guy thinks that the Game Used Forums aren't a good source of information, then that's great - he doesn't have to post or bid in the auction. But what does Game Used Universe's reputation, either good or bad, have to do with the Pujols jersey in question? The true question is whether or not the item is authentic. And the seller only detracts from the true point by attacking the reputation of this website. All we are asking for is proof that the Pujols jersey is a legitimately game-used item.

Lee-
Based on the current Ebay listing and the fact that it's now been relisted 4 times in the last 2 weeks, the seller appears desperate to try to offer reasons for the issues surrounding this shirt, including:

Lack of 0062 tag
Lack of MEARS LOA
Issues with Grey Flannels evaluation

He even goes as far to call Rob Steinmetz a "Bigshot" dealer in his current listing, and notes it came from him, however, Rob has already commented on this and noted he never owned it.

MEARS has also posted the following about the sellers comments:

Albert Pujols Cardinals Road Jersey on E-Bay

June 27 2008 at 6:30 PM Dave Grob (DaveGrob1@aol.com) (Login davegrob1 (http://www.network54.com/Profile/davegrob1))There is currently an Albert Pujols Cardinals road jersey listed on E-Bay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cardinals-Albert-Pujols-SIGNED-Game-Used-Jersey-MEARS_W0QQitemZ220249825371QQihZ012QQcategoryZ6059 7QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/Cardinals-Albert-Pujols-SIGNED-Game-Used-Jersey-MEARS_W0QQitemZ220249825371QQihZ012QQcategoryZ6059 7QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

The auction description includes mention of MEARS and a copy of MEARS worksheet. Interested bidders are encouraged to ask the seller about the actual Letter of Opinion and matching hologram with the MEARS Cert #. A worksheet for an item is just that and its only purpose is to facilitate the gathering of information that is to be used in forming and supporting an opinion.

An item offered as a MEARS product without the letter and hologram will not be covered by the MEARS Buyers protection program as we would have no way of ensuring it was in fact the same item we evaluated.

On the MEARS Web Site, under the Evaluation Services Tab (top of the page) and in the FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) sections, you will find this information relating to buyers protection:

Problematic circumstances may include:

We will not provide a refund under certain circumstances. We state these clearly now to avoid future disputes to our refund policies.

"The person I got this item from said it originally came with a SCDA/MEARS letter. He lost the letter, but I have bought from him in the past so I did not think it was a big deal." In this case we are being asked to provide a refund on an item that cannot be proven to have been authenticated by us. I think most would agree that this is not unreasonable.

Dave Grob
Policy Director
MEARSAlbert Pujols Cardinals Road Jersey on E-Bay

June 27 2008 at 8:36 PM Dave Miedema (sox83cubs84@hotmail.com) (Login sox83cubs84 (http://www.network54.com/Profile/sox83cubs84))

Response to Albert Pujols Cardinals Road Jersey on E-Bay (http://www.network54.com/Forum/427155/message/1214616626/Albert+Pujols+Cardinals+Road+Jersey+on+E-Bay)I've got concerns about this jersey and the worksheet, as well. The front shows no hologram number, and several key items not filled in. The back is cropped in the photo to eliminate the grade and grader. I'd be very wary of this offering.


Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@comcast.net

[trsent]

The seller posted on another forum that he would reply to the questions here, but he is prohibited from posting on this discussion forum.

[lund6771]

Rob...did you get a hold of someone at ebay to tell them about the discription?

Also let the guy post...It would make some interesting reading

[ChrisCavalier]

What I don't understand is what any bickering between GUU members and the seller has to do with the item. I mean, if the guy thinks that the Game Used Forums aren't a good source of information, then that's great - he doesn't have to post or bid in the auction. But what does Game Used Universe's reputation, either good or bad, have to do with the Pujols jersey in question? The true question is whether or not the item is authentic. And the seller only detracts from the true point by attacking the reputation of this website. All we are asking for is proof that the Pujols jersey is a legitimately game-used item.
Personally, I think this post is dead on. The seller of this jersey was banned from this website for repeated (and I mean numerously repeated) violations of the forum rules. After he was banned, he tried to create new accounts under new user names with different IP addresses and was banned each time thereafter.

It appears this person's response is to try to discredit this site elsewhere because we are keeping true to the forum rules and protecting the community from those seeking to take the site away from its intent to help others without personal attacks, baiting, false claims, etc.

As I have said before, judge a tree but the fruit it bears. People can say whatever they want, especially sitting behind a computer. At the end of the day, the best way to determine who you can trust is to judge them by their actions and the fruit they bear. I personally know Rob Steinmetz very well and when I read a comment that "Rob is dishonest" I almost have to laugh.

While we cannot control all the type of comments people make on this site or other public forums, our policy for those associated with GUU is to try not speak negatively about others. We prefer to let others know how we do things and trust people will see the integrity we bring to the industry by the fruit we bear. I would suggest you look at this person's listing, the approach he is taking in response to legitimate questions about the item, the fact that he has been banned from the site, and make your own decision about the integrity of his word.

[3arod13]

I usually don't get involved in these discussions, but I thought I'd mention that sometimes this bad publicity might get more people to take note of GUU. A lot of watchers of this item will have their curiosity piqued by the listing and will come on this website. Many may stay, when they realized that the Game Used Forums are about educating the collector. Just another way of looking at things.

I don't know what bad history the seller has with GUU, however, I don't think he or anyone else should be using ebay as their soapbox to bash GUU or anyone else. GUU doesn't have the opportunity to address and/or counter what the seller is posting.

I emailed him as follows: Dear fromthepros, Just a recommendation. If you relist the jersey, don't add the stuff about GUU. I think it scares off potential buyers. Especially if they don't know about GUU and can't figure out if there's a problem. Looks good to me. 3arod13

My point to the seller was, the information he posted about GUU has nothing to do with his auction. I guess the seller felt I was protecting GUU. My point to the seller was, what he is saying about GUU has nothing to do with the item he is selling. Just list the item, provide what documentation and information you have, and go from there.

Using ebay as a forum to bash and attack GUU or anyone else is uncalled for.

I guess there's more bad history there that I'm aware of.

[3arod13]

What I don't understand is what any bickering between GUU members and the seller has to do with the item. I mean, if the guy thinks that the Game Used Forums aren't a good source of information, then that's great - he doesn't have to post or bid in the auction. But what does Game Used Universe's reputation, either good or bad, have to do with the Pujols jersey in question? The true question is whether or not the item is authentic. And the seller only detracts from the true point by attacking the reputation of this website. All we are asking for is proof that the Pujols jersey is a legitimately game-used item.

Agree and well said. As I stated, to use his own auction, and ebay, as his soapbox to attack GUU, is ridiculous and uncalled for.

The signature is good. The jersey may also be good. Legit questions deserve legit answers. Being defensive only makes you look bad.

[trsent]

Agree and well said. As I stated, to use his own auction, and ebay, as his soapbox to attack GUU, is ridiculous and uncalled for.

The signature is good. The jersey may also be good. Legit questions deserve legit answers. Being defensive only makes you look bad.

Well, now we all can afford the jersey:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Albert-Pujols-Game-Worn-Jersey-MEARS-Grey-Flannel-GAI_W0QQitemZ220255665472QQihZ012QQcategoryZ60597Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

It has been listed at auction with a $99.99 opening bid. Wow, he listed a ton of new stuff, plus a reply to Chris's previous post. I do not know eBay's policy on this activity, but he sure goes off on a tangent in this listing.

It will be neat to see where this listing ends.

[3arod13]

Well, now we all can afford the jersey:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Albert-Pujols-Game-Worn-Jersey-MEARS-Grey-Flannel-GAI_W0QQitemZ220255665472QQihZ012QQcategoryZ60597Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

It has been listed at auction with a $99.99 opening bid. Wow, he listed a ton of new stuff, plus a reply to Chris's previous post. I do not know eBay's policy on this activity, but he sure goes off on a tangent in this listing.

It will be neat to see where this listing ends.

Ebay has been contacted and his auction will be removed.

Ridiculous this seller is using ebay this way.

[hblakewolf]

Forget about this shirt having "9 lives"-it simply will not die!

And to boot, you have to love the extremely informative write-up/rambling/bashing about this site.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Albert-Pujols-Game-Worn-Jersey-MEARS-Grey-Flannel-GAI_W0QQitemZ220255665472QQihZ012QQcategoryZ60597Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

On a serious note, how can Ebay allow this listing to remain active?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@comcast.net

[3arod13]

Forget about this shirt having "9 lives"-it simply will not die!

And to boot, you have to love the extremely informative write-up/rambling/bashing about this site.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Albert-Pujols-Game-Worn-Jersey-MEARS-Grey-Flannel-GAI_W0QQitemZ220255665472QQihZ012QQcategoryZ60597Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

On a serious note, how can Ebay allow this listing to remain active?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@comcast.net

I contacted ebay this morning. They are removing the listing.

[Eric]

moderncollector-
please respond to the above questions. you came on here with questions about the worksheet and you should clarify your thoughts.
thank you
eric (also known in certain ebay listings as "idiot")

[frikativ54]

Wow - I don't think I've seen anything like this on eBay ever. Honestly, I think he is just trying to detract from the authenticity question by bashing Game Used Universe. Plus, I find it interesting how the seller mentions ad nauseum that the money-back guarantee only applies if the Pujols jersey does not pass Mears. Perhaps he is just finding an evasive way of saying that there is no unconditional money-back guarantee on the purchase. Quite deceptive IMO. If 3arod13 is correct, R.I.P. Pujols jersey auction!

[3arod13]

Wow - I don't think I've seen anything like this on eBay ever. Honestly, I think he is just trying to detract from the authenticity question by bashing Game Used Universe. Plus, I find it interesting how the seller mentions ad nauseum that the money-back guarantee only applies if the Pujols jersey does not pass Mears. Perhaps he is just finding an evasive way of saying that there is no unconditional money-back guarantee on the purchase. Quite deceptive IMO. If 3arod13 is correct, R.I.P. Pujols jersey auction!

I contacted ebay at 7:00am yesterday. Auction still active today. They take way too long to take action.

[hblakewolf]

I contacted ebay at 7:00am yesterday. Auction still active today. They take way too long to take action.

Based on the fact that this is the third time this jersey has been listed on Ebay with similar negative comments about the Game Used Universe and now specifically Steinmetz, (and these previous listings were never cancelled, either), what leads you to believe Ebay will take any action about this current listing?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@comcast.net

[cards-bats]

*** CRICKETS CHIRPING ***

nothing.

[trsent]

I contacted ebay this morning. They are removing the listing.

I have never looked, but does eBay have a policy against personal attacks in a listing?

[hblakewolf]

I contacted ebay this morning. They are removing the listing.

It's been 4 days since you let us know that Ebay is removing the post,however, the listing is still active. Who notified you about the listing being removed, or was this simply wishful thinking on your part?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@comcast.net

[3arod13]

It's been 4 days since you let us know that Ebay is removing the post,however, the listing is still active. Who notified you about the listing being removed, or was this simply wishful thinking on your part?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@comcast.net

I contacted ebay using their online help. The Ebay rep looked at the auction and said they would also report it and it would be removed. All we can do it notify ebay about these things.

[3arod13]

I just contacted ebay through their livehelp. Here is the report:

9:41:59 AM System
Initial Question/Comment: Buying/Bidding/Searching
9:42:04 AM System
Thank you for contacting eBay Live Help!
9:42:04 AM System
You are successfully connected to eBay Live Help. Please hold for the next available Live Help Agent.
9:42:29 AM System
Nita T. has joined this session!
9:42:29 AM System
Connected with Nita T.
9:42:34 AM Nita T.
Hello, thank you for waiting and welcome to eBay Live Help! My name is Nita. How may I help you?
9:43:40 AM 3arod13
Nita, hi. I contacted ebay via livehelp and reported this auction for using ebay to make personal attacks against people. The ebay rep looked at the auction, said ebay doesn't support this kind of conduct and would report it. A few days later, it's still active and the seller is still doing it
9:44:24 AM Nita T.
Oh..I see.
9:44:44 AM Nita T.
Don't worry, I'll certainly help you with your concern.
9:45:54 AM Nita T.
Well,may I have the item number?
9:46:07 AM 3arod13
220255665472
9:46:14 AM Nita T.
Thanks.
9:46:55 AM Nita T.
I'll just quickly report this from my end.
9:47:16 AM Nita T.
Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
9:47:26 AM 3arod13
Thanks. The seller is getting out of hand using ebay to personally attack others who don't have the opportunity to respond to those comments.
9:47:49 AM Nita T.
We appreciate your efforts to help us maintain a safe trading environment. eBay takes all reports seriously. We will investigate your report and take the appropriate action.
9:48:01 AM 3arod13
thanks
9:48:10 AM Nita T.
Please give me a moment to report this.
9:48:15 AM 3arod13
ok
9:49:24 AM Nita T.
Thanks for waiting.
9:49:54 AM Nita T.
I've successfully reported the item and the seller to the concerned department.
9:50:02 AM 3arod13
thank you
9:50:20 AM Nita T.
You're welcome!
9:51:12 AM 3arod13
No further matters.
9:51:39 AM Nita T.
I'm glad to know that we have members like you that care about the eBay Community.
9:51:55 AM 3arod13
Thanks
9:52:00 AM Nita T.
Have I addressed all your concerns today?
9:52:11 AM 3arod13
yes.
9:52:25 AM Nita T.
It’s been a pleasure chatting with you today. Thank you for coming to eBay Live Help, have a great day.
9:52:32 AM 3arod13
you too

[3arod13]

Received this email following my post:

doesn't it seem stupid to you that you are crying to ebay about me making comments you feel rob and chris can't respond to, while you guys are doing the same freaking thing on a site I am banned from? are you that ignorant that you don't see the double standard, so instead you cry, cry, cry to ebay. I have answered your questions, but instead you don't reply to me, you just keep crying. are you in bed with those guys chris and rob? auction is still live.....if it gets pulled i'm sending it to mears, so who cares. my point is being made.


David Archibald

[Danny899]

Received this email following my post:

doesn't it seem stupid to you that you are crying to ebay about me making comments you feel rob and chris can't respond to, while you guys are doing the same freaking thing on a site I am banned from? are you that ignorant that you don't see the double standard, so instead you cry, cry, cry to ebay. I have answered your questions, but instead you don't reply to me, you just keep crying. are you in bed with those guys chris and rob? auction is still live.....if it gets pulled i'm sending it to mears, so who cares. my point is being made.


David Archibald

I'm curious as to what your reply to the "double standard" remark will be. It sure seems like a lot of back and forth. If you don't think the jersey is good, why not just leave it alone and don't bid? Certainly we've all seen items before whose authenticity is questionable. Why are you so adamant about getting it removed? So what if someone calls you names? It's only upsetting you more. Just don't bid. It's a beautiful day outside, go out and enjoy it.
PS: I'm not the seller nor a bidder of the jersey. I'm not even a Cardinals fan.

[hblakewolf]

Dave Archibald-

I see you relisted this shirt now for the 5th time, however, in your latest listing there is no photo of the new MEARS LOA you noted you were going to obtain if the jersey did not sell from the last listing. Can you possibly update the listing and include a shot of the MEARS LOA?

http://cgi.ebay.com/2003-Cardinals-Albert-Pujols-Game-Used-Baseball-Jersey_W0QQitemZ220260216974QQihZ012QQcategoryZ249 11QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And as always, an extremely impressive write-up!

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@comcast.net

[trsent]

Dave Archibald-

I see you relisted this shirt now for the 5th time, however, in your latest listing there is no photo of the new MEARS LOA you noted you were going to obtain if the jersey did not sell from the last listing. Can you possibly update the listing and include a shot of the MEARS LOA?

http://cgi.ebay.com/2003-Cardinals-Albert-Pujols-Game-Used-Baseball-Jersey_W0QQitemZ220260216974QQihZ012QQcategoryZ249 11QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And as always, an extremely impressive write-up!

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@comcast.net

I thought the seller told everyone they were going to submit the jersey to MEARS if it doesn't hit $1200.00 or something with 13 hours left in the last eBay auction. There is a picture of the MEARS worksheet in the listing, but they said the LOA was never completed and I do not know why the jersey was not submitted as promised in the last listing.