Time to change home run derby rules?

[cjclong]

With Josh Hamilton dominating the home run derby but not technically "winning" is it time to change the rules. I can't think of a single sport where the entire previous contest is thrown out in the last round, frame, inning or quarter to determine the winner. During a season we think of the home run leader in each league as the one who hit the most during a season and not the one who hit the most in the month of September or the last week of September. I think wiping out the first two round totals in the third round is there for the reason the networks think if some one like Hamilton is so far ahead going into the third round that he probably can't be caught that fans would tune out. But I don't think this it true. I think fans would like to see how many home runs a player can hit and can he hit one farther than the last one. As the rules are set up Hamilton was actually encouraged not to participate in the second round to try to save himself for the third, when by that time it was clear that he was the one the fans wanted to see. I would have been interested to see if he could have broken the all time record for the derby. It seems to me that we think of the winner as the one who hits the most total home runs and the rules can be changed to reflect that without losing viewers. And I think Hamilton remembering his old coach who used to pitch batting practice to him and thanking him by bringing him to the derby was a wonderful thing that should be remembered when many athletes are noted for being selfish and self centered.

[kellsox]

...and get rid of Chris Berman. His act has grown way old.
k

[skyking26]

I agree all the way around. Nice comeback story for kids with Hamilton. Shows even when you are at your lowest you can come back if you clean up your act. The fact that he did not win that trophy because of the rules sucks. Nobody will remember the winner - only the 28 HRS.

There was a tirade on youtube recently of Berman going off the deep end because somebody made a noise while he was getting ready to speak. I think perhaps he has outgrown himself...

[Yankwood]

Just my opinion, but the whole Home Run Derby and other related festivities are such a bore. Hype, overhype, call it what you will: just because someone is yelling and making noise doesn't make it at all exciting. I honestly haven't watched these events since the Freak Show era. Throw it in a pot with the Slam Dunk, 3 point contest and whatever else the sports world is doing these days to "create" hysteria.

[ahuff]

Just my opinion, but the whole Home Run Derby and other related festivities are such a bore. Hype, overhype, call it what you will: just because someone is yelling and making noise doesn't make it at all exciting. I honestly haven't watched these events since the Freak Show era. Throw it in a pot with the Slam Dunk, 3 point contest and whatever else the sports world is doing these days to "create" hysteria.

That is too bad. I don't typically get too excited about the special events. My son and I sat down to watch. Then, Josh made it a truly memorable experience. Too bad you missed it. I think people will be talking about it for years.

As far as changing the rules, I don't think it is necessary. Morneau even admitted it, last night was all about Hamilton. That is what people will remember. Morneau deserved the trophy. I don't know, but perhaps he left a little in the tank, on purpose, in hopes of winning the final round. I wondered then, and even more now, why Josh even went out for the 2nd round. I think it would have been a different outcome had he saved his energy for that final round.

[cjclong]

Morneau deserved it under the rules as they currently are. But the rules as they currently are don't make sense. As you pointed out, the player the fans clearly wanted to see was discouraged from competing in the second round at all by the rules. I think the only reason the rules give it to the winner of the third round is in the mistaken belief that is the way to keep viewers. I suspect more than 90% of the people who watch think the player who hits the most home runs over all should be the winner.

[joelsabi]

And I think Hamilton remembering his old coach who used to pitch batting practice to him and thanking him by bringing him to the derby was a wonderful thing that should be remembered when many athletes are noted for being selfish and self centered.


71-year-old coach to pitch to Hamilton at HR Derby

Posted: 30 minutes ago
Updated: 7 minutes ago
RALEIGH, N.C. — Clay Council helped Josh Hamilton develop his batting stroke as a 13-year-old, and next week, he hopes he can give the Texas Rangers' star a chance to win the Home Run Derby at Yankee Stadium.
WRAL-TV reports that the 71-year-old Council was invited by Hamilton to pitch to the Raleigh native in the annual long-ball competition that accompanies the All-Star Game.
When Hamilton's brother played American Legion ball for Council in the 1990s, Hamilton would join in batting practice. Hamilton was batting .309 with 21 home runs and a league-leading 91 RBIs before Friday night's action.
Council, who still throws batting practice for Cary's American Legion team, will be making his second trip to the stadium in its final season. He said his first visit was when Don Larsen pitched a perfect game against the Brooklyn Dodgers in Game 5 of the 1956 World Series.

Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[suave1477]

That is too bad. I don't typically get too excited about the special events. My son and I sat down to watch. Then, Josh made it a truly memorable experience. Too bad you missed it. I think people will be talking about it for years.

As far as changing the rules, I don't think it is necessary. Morneau even admitted it, last night was all about Hamilton. That is what people will remember. Morneau deserved the trophy. I don't know, but perhaps he left a little in the tank, on purpose, in hopes of winning the final round. I wondered then, and even more now, why Josh even went out for the 2nd round. I think it would have been a different outcome had he saved his energy for that final round.


AHUFF I was there and as everyone at the stadium noticed I am not sure if people watching it on tv noticed, that Mourneau got the short end of the straw as chances are he most likely could of made quite a few more Home Runs but he had the worst pitcher throwing to him. everything pitched was all over the place.
So as all the other hitters were popping the home runs off there bat. Mourneau was muscling them out. So I am sure he spent up a good amount of his energy.

Hamilton I think came out the second time knowing there was a possibility that someone might catch up which Mourneau ended up being not far behind so he wanted to tack on a couple of more home runs, but your right his best bet would have been too sit it out take some rest and come back strong the 3rd round.

[bigtruck260]

Berman asked if anyone thought the Ray's were upset with Josh for turing his career around after they let him loose...

Thankfully, Sutcliffe interrupted and said "I think the Rays are happy that Josh got his life together..."

Berman likes to hear himself talk sometimes.

[sylbry]

I can't think of a single sport where the entire previous contest is thrown out in the last round, frame, inning or quarter to determine the winner.

I can. It is called the Playoffs. Sort of like 2006 when the lowly Cardinals won the World Series or the 2008 Super Bowl when the mighty Patriots fell to the Giants.

But yes, I would be in favor of changing the rules. Afterall, isn't the objective to see how many home runs you can hit, not how many you can hit in a round?

[cjclong]

Sure we have playoff GAMES to determine a winner. There is no other way to determine a World Series or Super Bowl winner. But WITHIN THE GAME we don't throw out everything that went before give the title to the winner of the last inning or quarter or frame in bowling or hole in golf or any other sport I can think of.

[TNTtoys]

Sure we have playoff GAMES to determine a winner. There is no other way to determine a World Series or Super Bowl winner. But WITHIN THE GAME we don't throw out everything that went before give the title to the winner of the last inning or quarter or frame in bowling or hole in golf or any other sport I can think of.

I agree that the rules need to change in order to reflect the winner as the guy who hits the most home runs, period... but A LOT of tournaments that we have come to know well operate in this manner.

For instance, bowling... which I feel was a poor analogy above. Most large bowling tournaments work identically to the format of the home run derby. They play across an entire week, bowling up to 80 games in physically draining conditions. Total pinfall determines where they will be seeded in the stepladder finals. Once those finals come, that total pinfall across the week is scrapped and replaced by single-game elimination.

If the top seed had dominated the entire field all weel long and comes up short in his single game in the stepladder finals, he loses the tournament (like Hamilton in the 3rd round). He could have been the best bowler all week, but he does not win the prize.

[cjclong]

Ok, TNTtoys, you did come up with a tournament example in bowling. But even that was a number of games over a number of days. Not one contest conducted on a single day. The bottom line is that we think of the person who is the home run leader for a baseball season as the person who hits the most home runs during the year in the regular season and we don't count the playoffs and the world series in the total. I think almost all the fans think the home run derby should be conducted the same way and the person who hits the most home runs total in the 3 rounds should be the winner. I think the only reason it isn't done that way is the mistaken belief that people will turn off the tv sets if it looks like one player in the third round was a sure winner. And I don't think that would happen as I think the fans are interested in the total number hit.

[TNTtoys]

I think the only reason it isn't done that way is the mistaken belief that people will turn off the tv sets if it looks like one player in the third round was a sure winner. And I don't think that would happen as I think the fans are interested in the total number hit.

Agree with all of this. If Abreu set the record with 41, I would personally have kept the TV on until Hamilton reached 41; regardless of whether or not it was a run-away victory.

Irrespective of whether or not there is a flaw with the system, I think Hamilton has the greater achievement here by owning the "record" (28 in a round). After all, how many trophy winners have there been since the inception of this tournament? Only 1 man in history did what Hamilton did yesterday.

[ndevlin]

...and get rid of Chris Berman. His act has grown way old.
k


You arent kiddin!!!

[staindsox]

I think they have to keep the rules as they are because why would anyone watch to see who wins if a guy was winning by 10 homers going into the final round. The derby would always be over in the first round; remember McGwire in Boston, Sosa in Milwaukee, Abreu in Detroit? They could also just completley scrap the rounds. Let a guy have 10 outs, 20 outs, 27 outs, whatever, and hit away.

Besides, this isn't the World Series or Super Bowl. Homerun Derby inequities won't keep me up at night.

[mr.miracle]

I think they have to keep the rules as they are because why would anyone watch to see who wins if a guy was winning by 10 homers going into the final round. The derby would always be over in the first round; remember McGwire in Boston, Sosa in Milwaukee, Abreu in Detroit? They could also just completley scrap the rounds. Let a guy have 10 outs, 20 outs, 27 outs, whatever, and hit away.

Besides, this isn't the World Series or Super Bowl. Homerun Derby inequities won't keep me up at night.

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't the NBA start fresh in the finals of the 3 point shootout and Slam Dunk Contest as two examples. I agree with Staindsox, why would anyone continue to watch if those scores carried forward. In fact, the only reason anyone would have watched after the beatdown that occurred in the first round was to see if Josh Hamilton would break the previous total record and or to see him continue his assault on the Yankee Stadium outer walls and bleachers.

While it does seem on some level unfair that Hamilton destroyed the field in the 1st round and then lost in the final, there is really no other way to make this fair in the scenario from yesterday where one guy is destoying the field.

Thanks

[eGameUsed]

What about track and field or even swimming events. Endurance is the key. You got to pace yourself! If you are racing in a 10K against three other people and you take off averaging 4.5 min miles, you are more likley to finish last while the person that avaraged 5.5 min miles passed you on the last lap.

[sylbry]

Sure we have playoff GAMES to determine a winner. There is no other way to determine a World Series or Super Bowl winner. But WITHIN THE GAME we don't throw out everything that went before give the title to the winner of the last inning or quarter or frame in bowling or hole in golf or any other sport I can think of.

I don't see it that differently. One season equals one contest. But I do see your point. I am just saying that the first round equals the regular season. People/teams are eliminated. The second round equals the playoffs. Two remain for the finals. The length of the season/contest is irrelevent.

The way I see it is if there is a run away contestant (Hamilton) the rest of the contest would become irrelevant. If his first two rounds counted toward the finals, the final round would have consisted of Morneau trying to match Hamilton. If not then there would have been no reason for Hamilton to step to the plate again.

[cjclong]

The only way it becomes irrelevant is if people are only interested in seeing a "winner." I think that is wrong and the proof is everyone is talking about the "loser" Hamilton and no one is talking about Morneau. If they had gone into the last round with Hamilton far ahead most people would have continued to watch to see what Hamilton could do. People are less interested in who "won" than who hit a lot of long home runs. I doubt if those of us who watch can tell you the winner for a lot of years but we remember some of the long home run bombs.

[10thMan]

The rules didn`t matter to me...I watched Hamilton smash all those Homers, wondered what a Bat looks like that hit 25 Homers, went outside & got some excersize.

Sean