Mastro - Psa/dna

[sammy]

http://www.autographalert.com/paperreading.gif Breaking News: August 8, 2008 Steve Grad, John Reznikoff & Zack Rullo
The Mistakes Just Keep Coming


Www.autographalert.com openly requested an interview with each of these three persons who claim they can authenticate autographs. The challenge includes a representative from www.autographalert.com (http://www.autographalert.com) asking each of these gents about a dozen questions. The interview should not take more that 20-25 minutes.

Many of our readers are concerned about the people at PSADNA who claim to be autograph experts. Questions about their actual backgrounds in autographs, their autograph education and several other questions need to be answered. Many collectors now somewhat educated no longer believe in self promoting full page advertisements. Collectors now want to hear from the “authenticators” themselves.

We want to take this opportunity to thank those dealers who have contacted us regarding not giving refunds based on the guess of any 3rd party autograph authenticator. All dealers have to do is refer your customer to the stories on www.autographalert.com (http://www.autographalert.com)

Here is one more reason to understand why 3rd party authenticators are incompetent. Read the following. Again we can refer to the current Mastro Auctions. Lot number 2071, Andrew Johnson Military appointment. That short description alone sends up a red flag to anyone who has even limited experience handling signed presidential items. Who doesn’t know most of these documents are not hand signed by President Johnson? It appears only Steve Grad, John Reznikoff and Zack Rullo at PSADNA don’t know!

The following is a condensed version of Mastro’s catalog description of this lot. “...offered is an 1866 military commission certificate, signed by President Andrew Johnson....Johnson’s black fountain pen signature is a full name example....and rates an “8" in strength......LOA from Steve Grad & Zack Rullo and John Reznikoff/PSADNA.”

http://www.autographalert.com/ajohnsig.jpg Andrew Johnson Stamped Signature being sold as Genuine
Once again, www.autographalert.com (http://www.autographalert.com) would like to hear from the boys at PSADNA how this got passed them? The only possible excuse, even for these gents is that none of them saw the document. But we would like to hear that from them.

Yet, there is a COA from PSADNA from these three passing this item as genuine.

Let’s take this one more embarrassing step forward. Worse, is that not one of these three can tell a signature signed by a pen using ink verses a signature placed on a document by a stamp. THE SIGNATURE ON THIS DOCUMENT CONTAINS A VERY COMMON STAMPED SIGNATURE.

Now, if someone can’t tell a real ink signature from a stamped signature, why should any collector submit their autograph for authentication? Why should ANY dealer make a refund based on one of their guesses? Why are these people authenticating autographs?

Steve Grad, John Reznikoff, Zack Rullo, send us an email and let’s set up an interview!

[Eric]

sammy
can you let us know who wrote that? I assume you took that info from another website.

[sammy]

Eric,

The info requested is at the beginning:

www.autographalert.com (http://www.autographalert.com/)

[trsent]

Eric,

The info requested is at the beginning:

www.autographalert.com (http://www.autographalert.com/)

I forget if it was on Gavel Chat a few months ago, but that web site is a witch hunt where the owners and posters on it are just out to bash autograph authenticators. They have no balls - They do not sign their posts. They try to hide their web site's ownership as they are a hidden bash board.

Scroll down the latest news and they are whining that R&R Auctions and PSA/DNA confused Danny Kaye and Danny Thomas - Who cares? Like this was an intentional error - They are looking for trouble in the wrong places. They do not back up their claims with any proof and they just call out items and errors (and a suicide by an auction house employee) but do not sign their articles except with an AOL email address on their home page.

Here, I found the Gavel Chat article about this web site:

Thursday, June 05, 2008
Hard-hitting autograph website lacks credibilty (http://gavelchat.sportscollectorsdigest.com/Hardhitting+Autograph+Website+Lacks+Credibilty.asp x)
Posted by Chris

http://gavelchat.sportscollectorsdigest.com/content/binary/aa.jpg (http://gavelchat.sportscollectorsdigest.com/ct.ashx?id=750b48ab-df69-4cf4-9f28-e2c2ba958331&url=http%3a%2f%2fautographalert.com)I recently stumbled upon a website called autographalert.com (http://gavelchat.sportscollectorsdigest.com/ct.ashx?id=750b48ab-df69-4cf4-9f28-e2c2ba958331&url=http%3a%2f%2fautographalert.com), and I must say, it really touches on some hard-hitting issues in the autograph world. The one problem I have with it, however, is that (from what I could see) there was no author's name on who wrote these articles and many of the stories use anonymous and/or one-sided sources in the stories.

For those of you who have been longtime readers of Gavel Chat, you'll know that we are big on credibility and standing behind what we write.

I did a website lookup to see who autographalert.com was registered under (considering I searched their entire site twice and couldn't even find a contact name, just a generic email address) and this was the info that I turned up:

Registrant:
Autograph Alert

PO Box 297167
Pembroke Pines, Florida 33029
United States

Registered through: Broadband National, LLC
Domain Name: AUTOGRAPHALERT.COM
Created on: 16-Mar-05
Expires on: 16-Mar-09
Last Updated on: 16-Mar-08

Administrative Contact:
Mike Frost, Steve Koschal steve@paasaa.com
Autograph Alert
PO Box 297167
Pembroke Pines, Florida 33029
United States
(561) 582-4439



Now, from what I remember, Frost and Koschal are considered autograph authenticators. I also really think there is some interesting reading on their site, but I have little respect for any entity that writes nearly all negative articles, with many anonymous and/or one-sided sources. Also, I can't respect or seriously acknowledge a story that doesn't include a byline...

Makes no sense to me. If all this information is so important to the hobby, and they stand behind it, why on earth wouldn't they want credit for their findings?

[bigtruck260]

I agree that the site has a negative overtone - and is a witch hunt in many ways. I've been reading it for years.

However, there is some information containted within those pages that is very interesting, and eye opening. I find that the stuff about PSA authenticating lots being sold by employees enlightening.

You have to take sites like that with a grain of salt. If you look past some of the bashing, you can find some truly informative and eye-opening truths - which they often back up with photos of the items that they are describing.

My point of contention is that there is never any rebuttal from the guys they are calling out.

it is mainly a site that supports the major professional autograph dealers society - forgot what the name of it is. I'm actually suprised that they are not sites like autographalert for questionable game-used and other memorabilia - are there?

[David]

The site is so negative and sarcastic in tone that it hurts their own cause. Most non-collectors off the street would assume from the relentless sarcastic tone that the site has an ax to grind and the information is not objective.

[mvandor]

The site is so negative and sarcastic in tone that it hurts their own cause. Most non-collectors off the street would assume from the relentless sarcastic tone that the site has an ax to grind and the information is not objective.
I quit paying attention to that site long ago, their agenda is to run the third party authenticators out of business. They are anything but even handed and objective.

[David]

Another term form giving one sided information to support your narrow cause is propaganda. Propaganda doesn't mean that each bit of information given is incorrect-- in fact the information in and of itself can be true--, but that the overall information is selected, edited and distorted to prove and only prove a predetermined point.

[trsent]

Back to this topic. I have been doing some research, asking some questions and I have found out more about this topic we have been discussing.

First off, there is no lot 2071 in the current Mastro Auction. There is an Andrew Johnson autograph in lot 1153 which appears genuine, and not the one pictured on the Autograph Alert web site. I do not understand how they post a picture and a lot number but not a link to the listing they have an issue with. Makes for a pretty vague argument on their behalf.

I have been told that Mike Frost and Steve Koschal have had an agenda against PSA/DNA for years. I asked someone at PSA/DNA about this web site, and they told me they have never been contacted by Autograph Alert about their concerns and claims on their web site. I know this web site often mentions that they contacted PSA/DNA about their concerns, but PSA/DNA says they have no record of any such mature contact.

Finally, in asking around, I have been told that Mike Frost has had issues with his unlimited supply of Mickey Mantle autographs dating back to around twenty years ago that maybe his issue with PSA/DNA is due to the fact that PSA/DNA does not believe his autographs to be genuine.

Finally, if Mike Frost or Steve Koschal wish to contact me about my concerns, my email address is joel@alpert.net and I would love to hear their side of the story.

[trsent]

I forgot to include links yesterday that were easily found when doing research. First off, the email address for the domain registration Chris Nerat found is an email address found at: paasaa.com

This is a pretty funny web site, as it is a 3rd party autograph authenticator that I have never heard of. When you click their link to their other web site: http://www.paasautographs.com/ you find another PAAS web site.

Then, if you click on their eBay link, they have nothing for sale, but their feedback is funny: http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=pro-authentication&ftab=AllFeedback&_trksid=p3911.c0.m198

Their eBay user id is: pro-authentication (http://myworld.ebay.com/pro-authentication)

So, what is shown here is that this 3rd party authentication company, which this week is taking a shot at James Spense Authentication for offering a $5.00 certification special, making it look such as if business is bad, is operated by the same people who have the Autograph Alert web site.

It wouldn't be as big of a concern, but they have a web site attacking PSA/DNA and JSA but they do not attribute their articles to anyone. The only contact information on the web site is a generic AOL email address.

So, until these guys grow up and admit there is competition to their service, which may not be doing well since they were selling "BABE RUTH AUTOGRAPH AUTHENTICATION SERVICES / P.A.A.S." on eBay for $29.00 their service may never make it.

So easy, run an honest business that doesn't try to succeed by tearing holes, often unproven, in their competition and maybe your company will one day succeed.

[bigtruck260]

On their exemplars page, it looks like they authenticated a Jordan sig that has a UDA hologram already...? Wow. Thanks for the info Joel.

[trsent]

On their exemplars page, it looks like they authenticated a Jordan sig that has a UDA hologram already...? Wow. Thanks for the info Joel.

That is funny, I didn't even notice that one!

I have been selling some UDA Sandy Koufax baseballs that are graded and certified authentic by PSA/DNA. Spent the money for the PSA/DNA grading service, but they certified the autograph was real also at the same time. Easy money, huh?

[sammy]

One of the nice things about this site, www.autographalert.com (http://www.autographalert.com/), is that it is a good starting point for further research.

If you don't believe what is stated, check it out yourself.

I did, and here are the results.

The Andrew Johnson alleged Presidential autographed item stated at the beginning of this thread, is from the Mastro auction that closed on June 26, 2008. It is Lot 2071, and as stated in the description by www.autographalert.com (http://www.autographalert.com/).

There is a lot of valid information on this site, covering the past 3+ years, concerning many dubious items.

It appears certain individuals would rather kill the messenger, instead of looking at the actual message.

To each their own.

[trsent]

One of the nice things about this site, www.autographalert.com (http://www.autographalert.com/), is that it is a good starting point for further research.

If you don't believe what is stated, check it out yourself.

I did, and here are the results.

The Andrew Johnson alleged Presidential autographed item stated at the beginning of this thread, is from the Mastro auction that closed on June 26, 2008. It is Lot 2071, and as stated in the description by www.autographalert.com (http://www.autographalert.com/).

There is a lot of valid information on this site, covering the past 3+ years, concerning many dubious items.

It appears certain individuals would rather kill the messenger, instead of looking at the actual message.

To each their own.

So, if I own my own authenticating service I should start an anonymous web site to bash the other authenticating services privately.

Sorry, I missed that part of the note, I will further investigate your facts with the closed auction, but still, you are saying you want people to bash others with no attribution to who is doing the bashing and what their hidden agenda is.

I understand, in this case it is to make up for the fact that someone doesn't like the fact that other services will not authenticate their endless supply of Mickey Mantle autographs.

So, you are saying you like a web site that posts their "investigative" reporting with no attribution to who published it. That is the USA way, I understand. Let people abuse others and not stand behind their "facts and findings".

[trsent]

One of the nice things about this site, www.autographalert.com (http://www.autographalert.com/), is that it is a good starting point for further research.

If you don't believe what is stated, check it out yourself.

I did, and here are the results.

The Andrew Johnson alleged Presidential autographed item stated at the beginning of this thread, is from the Mastro auction that closed on June 26, 2008. It is Lot 2071, and as stated in the description by www.autographalert.com (http://www.autographalert.com/).

There is a lot of valid information on this site, covering the past 3+ years, concerning many dubious items.

It appears certain individuals would rather kill the messenger, instead of looking at the actual message.

To each their own.

Sammy, I cannot find the Mastro auction June 26, 2008 lot 2071. Can you post a link to that listing? I would like to have it looked at but cannot do anything without seeing the listing.

[trsent]

So, if I own my own authenticating service I should start an anonymous web site to bash the other authenticating services privately.

Sorry, I missed that part of the note, I will further investigate your facts with the closed auction, but still, you are saying you want people to bash others with no attribution to who is doing the bashing and what their hidden agenda is.

I understand, in this case it is to make up for the fact that someone doesn't like the fact that other services will not authenticate their endless supply of Mickey Mantle autographs.

So, you are saying you like a web site that posts their "investigative" reporting with no attribution to who published it. That is the USA way, I understand. Let people abuse others and not stand behind their "facts and findings".

Finally, where does the Autograph Alert article state the June date? I see the article, written by no one, is dated August 8, 2008. It says:

"Here is one more reason to understand why 3rd party authenticators are incompetent. Read the following. Again we can refer to the current Mastro Auctions. Lot number 2071, Andrew Johnson Military appointment. That short description alone sends up a red flag to anyone who has even limited experience handling signed presidential items. Who doesn’t know most of these documents are not hand signed by President Johnson? It appears only Steve Grad, John Reznikoff and Zack Rullo at PSADNA don’t know!"

It clearly states the current Mastro auction. No where in their anonymous article do they state a date of June 26, 2008. How is anyone to review this with no web page up and it not in the "current" Mastro auction?

If you are going to defend people who do not sign their writings, please do not embellish their posts with dates that they do not give. On August 8, 2008 they posted this from the current Mastro Auction.

Do not put words in the mouths of those who do not have the balls to sign their postings - Oh yeah, and who are just trying to bash their competition since they own their own 3rd party authenticating service.

[sammy]

Joel,

Since you seem uptight about this, perhaps some further review will lessen your blood pressure.

The "current" Mastro auction did not start until August 11, not August 8. Perhaps the post was written during the previous Mastro auction and not posted on their site until August 8. Simple solution.

You will have to get a catalog for the June auction to view Lot 2071.

Sorry you are having such a problem with this, and it is nice to see you have not changed since you quit this site and went to MEARS.

Glad to see you missed us.

[CollectGU]

Here is a website that bashes the owner of autograph alert as a possible forger? Sounds like it's a bunch of sour grapes with hidden agendas from both these sites:
http://autographdealernews.com/Articles.aspx?article=11

Regaqrds,
Dave

[trsent]

Here is a website that bashes the owner of autograph alert as a possible forger? Sounds like it's a bunch of sour grapes with hidden agendas from both these sites:
http://autographdealernews.com/Articles.aspx?article=11

Regaqrds,
Dave

Dave, great find there. It helps back-up my claims that there is something wrong with the Autograph Alert web site.


Joel,

Since you seem uptight about this, perhaps some further review will lessen your blood pressure.

The "current" Mastro auction did not start until August 11, not August 8. Perhaps the post was written during the previous Mastro auction and not posted on their site until August 8. Simple solution.

You will have to get a catalog for the June auction to view Lot 2071.

Sorry you are having such a problem with this, and it is nice to see you have not changed since you quit this site and went to MEARS.

Glad to see you missed us.

Sorry, you feel that my emotions ruin our discussion and debate. You like a web site run by people hiding and playing a serious game against businesses that are public and will accept any questions if asked if them directly. I do not like this web site, and I feel the facts make my arguments valid.

I am also sorry you have to take my side personally and comment on any changes I have made. Do you not have any clue how my life has changed, so please worry about the topic and don't get defensive.

[sammy]

Joel,

You surprise me, but then again, not really.

The site you claim is a "great find" and "helps back-up my claims" is doing the same thing you grind the Autograph Alert web site for. Who wrote the articles on that site Joel? There isn't any name attached, and the owner of the site is hiding behind a proxy company.

Joel, since you say you like to have an open discussion, who told you about some "agenda" and who is your source at PSA/DNA that you "asked"

"I have been told that Mike Frost and Steve Koschal have had an agenda against PSA/DNA for years. I asked someone at PSA/DNA about this web site, and they told me they have never been contacted by Autograph Alert about their concerns and claims on their web site. I know this web site often mentions that they contacted PSA/DNA about their concerns, but PSA/DNA says they have no record of any such mature contact."

Let's see some names to back up your "facts" Joel. Perhaps your anonymous source at PSA has not been contacted, but there are a lot of people at PSA/DNA. Did you contact all of them and verify your "facts"?

Also, since you claim this statement as a fact, who is your anonymous source, once again, to back this claim up?

"Finally, in asking around, I have been told that Mike Frost has had issues with his unlimited supply of Mickey Mantle autographs dating back to around twenty years ago that maybe his issue with PSA/DNA is due to the fact that PSA/DNA does not believe his autographs to be genuine."

Joel, perhaps you have misunderstood my writings. I am not getting defensive about you personally. It was a simple statement concerning the last time you left this site and vowed not to post on here anymore. Since you were so lonely at the MEARS site and decided to come back here, I was just welcoming you back and stating I was glad to see you haven't changed.

If you are going to slam one site for being anonymous, don't use another anonymous site and anonymous sources to defend your statements.

Tacky Joel, tacky.

[admin_old]

Gentlemen,

It looks like this thread has the potential to get personal. If you would like to post anything that is of benefit to the community please feel free to do so. However, as per the rules and for the benefit of others on the forum, please make sure your posts focus on issues that affect the hobby and not anything personal.

Thanks in advance.

[CollectGU]

Joel,


The site you claim is a "great find" and "helps back-up my claims" is doing the same thing you grind the Autograph Alert web site for. Who wrote the articles on that site Joel? There isn't any name attached, and the owner of the site is hiding behind a proxy company.



Sammy,

I think Joel's point is that you should not take everything from the site you have mentioned on here numerous times for reference as legitimate objective news without agenda as he has shown there is probable cause for an agenda.

Regards,
Dave

[trsent]

I am being accused of making up facts and contact? I do not have to give anything to my end of the debate than what I have offered. I did my homework and made my claim based on facts and research. I don't have to post any more than the truth that I posted.

Oh well, some people when they don't like the truth they look for holes in a person's discussion pulling at worthless thoughts and a personal attack that I do not know why it remains on the forum. Admin made a warning, but I thought they edited posts that veer off a discussion and are a personal attack.

Finally, Sammy, though I do not agree with your stance, if you would make your points and not bring up personal attacks your side of this discussion would seem much more mature and realistic.

[mvandor]

Gentlemen,

It looks like this thread has the potential to get personal. If you would like to post anything that is of benefit to the community please feel free to do so. However, as per the rules and for the benefit of others on the forum, please make sure your posts focus on issues that affect the hobby and not anything personal.

Thanks in advance.

I can't help but find it a bit ironic that one of the points of this thread is about hidden identities and suddenly we have a faceless "Admin" post rather than one of the known admins posting with there own ID...:)

[bigtruck260]

After reading both sides, I have come to a grand conclusion....

This is EXACTLY why I do not collect autographs anymore. Even the most highly regarded dealers are eventually branded as forgers - and the reality it seems is that everyone is considered suspect at some point. One accusation of forgery ruins credibility forever (almost always).

I think that is why I made the switch to GU stuff. It is just easier for me to find experts who will offer advice at no charge - and to pass if I don't feel good about it. The truth is, autographs can vary so much from some people (see A. Pujols) that even the best "authenticators" are wrong at least a few times in their careers - whether they want to admit it or not. Those mistakes can be embarassing and costly to the buyer/seller.

Bats are a little harder to forge than an 8x10 or baseball...there are more components than just a variation on a letter or slant.

Both sides were presented here, and it just solidified my personal stance that unless you see something signed - or it comes from UDA, Steiner or a MAJOR company that is renowned for authenticity, pass on it.

[shoremen44]

Dave,
Great points...and I agree 100%.

I do have some signed stuff, but almost all of the individual stuff has been signed in front of me. I do have team balls as they are a little tought to fake.

I also agree that the varyation in signatures around some guys is huge... to your example I have 3 autographed Pujols bats, and all three are vastly different.

[sammy]

Well, it has been a lively and interesting debate, but it is time to close this one out.

Until next time Joel, take care and I wish you the best.

It is always fun debating with you.

[RICHIE RICH]

.http://www.paasautographs.com/images/3155878_1.jpghttp://www.paasautographs.com/images/11.jpg
Michael Frost & Mickey Mantle..
Where is Grad & Mickey???????
www.paasautographs.com (http://www.paasautographs.com)
Mike Frost: President of Professional Autograph Authentication Services . President of Collectables of the Stars established in New York in 1982. Mike Frost was the first to have Mickey Mantle, Joe DiMaggio, Willie Mays and Duke Snider for in-store signings. Mike Frost formed a close friendship with Mickey Mantle, Muhammad Ali and many other superstars during the 1980's and 1990's. Mike Frost is a co-founder and past President of the International Autograph Collectors Club & Dealer Alliance, first President of the Gold Coast Autograph Club, and recipient of the UACC Certificate of Appreciation Award (1991).
Mike Frost has been featured on The Maury Povich Show, Geraldo Rivera Show, Hard Copy, The Howard Stern Show, HBO, and Showtime. Mike Frost is one of the premier authenticators for the Topps Company. Mike Frost has over 30 years experience in the autograph industry and is one of the few universally respected authorities. Mike has worked with and authenticated for some of the biggest sports memorabilia companies and auction houses in the world.
Mike Frost has obtained over 45,000 autographs in person and has authenticated over 7500 autographs. Michael Frost is a true pioneer in the autograph hobby and autograph authentication industry. Mike Frost has worked hand and hand with 100's of athletes and celebrities with private signings and personal appearances.

[otismalibu]

Two legends.

Mickey Mantle & Ron Jeremy.