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skipcarayislegend
09-04-2008, 04:51 PM
Apparently this helmet's in the HOF. I'm sure those of you who've made it to Canton have probably seen this before, but I thought this helmet looked really cool. Not being a football collector, there were a couple things that surprised me about it. The first thing being how badly the helmet was broken. A crack's one thing, but the shell looks like it broke into two pieces. I'm also surprised that someone decided to keep it. I'm glad they did, but if NFL clubs were anything like most MLB clubs at the time, cracked helmets were usually trashed, were they not?

mvandor
09-04-2008, 07:34 PM
Apparently this helmet's in the HOF. I'm sure those of you who've made it to Canton have probably seen this before, but I thought this helmet looked really cool. Not being a football collector, there were a couple things that surprised me about it. The first thing being how badly the helmet was broken. A crack's one thing, but the shell looks like it broke into two pieces. I'm also surprised that someone decided to keep it. I'm glad they did, but if NFL clubs were anything like most MLB clubs at the time, cracked helmets were usually trashed, were they not?

Unless there is a story to go with that helmet that makes it special, I would think they could have obtained a better one for display purposes.

Dewey2007
09-04-2008, 08:36 PM
Maybe helmet is the one he was wearing prior to this famous photo being taken? Looks like he got clocked pretty good.

http://www.profootballhof.com/images/content/photos/1950tittle.jpg (http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?PLAYER_ID=214)

WadeInBmore
09-05-2008, 11:38 AM
It definetely is the helmet that he was wearing when that photo was taken. I was in Canton when I was 13 and that display was awesome!!!! Its like a Y.A. Tittle shrine, complete with the helmet, oil paintings and still photographs. you can even see the blood stains on the inside of the helmet. Tittle got creamed during a play, if I'm not mistaken, and the result was a crushed helmet. I also feel as if the game was significant as well, although trying to recall finer details from a memory that is almost 15 years old is a task in and of itself. Thanks for the trip down memory lane.

wade

DrJ
09-05-2008, 12:27 PM
Yes, it is at the HOF. The HOF has some of coolest helmets (as you would expect). I remember seeing Payton's Wilson helmet, Joe Greene's clear-shell helmet, Tittle's broke helmet, etc. Definitely a place any football fan should visit. And of course, my trip was even better since it was paid for by my employer!!!:)

mvandor
09-05-2008, 12:29 PM
It definetely is the helmet that he was wearing when that photo was taken. I was in Canton when I was 13 and that display was awesome!!!! Its like a Y.A. Tittle shrine, complete with the helmet, oil paintings and still photographs. you can even see the blood stains on the inside of the helmet. Tittle got creamed during a play, if I'm not mistaken, and the result was a crushed helmet. I also feel as if the game was significant as well, although trying to recall finer details from a memory that is almost 15 years old is a task in and of itself. Thanks for the trip down memory lane.

wade

The placard in the pic does not specifically attribute the helmet to that hit/photo/play. Was there something elsewhere to tie it to the play that you saw when you were there? Anyone know? Just curious.

It almost looks like a helmet that was cut off a player, I never saw or heard of one of these even in those days splitting so badly. I know teams were cheap and kept them in circulation forever, but has anyone seen one split like a coconut before? Also, wondering why the facemask was removed or not at least replaced for display. IMHO, the HOF sometimes looks like it operates on a shoestring budget which nowadays shouldn't be the case.

Nathan
09-06-2008, 01:36 AM
The placard in the pic does not specifically attribute the helmet to that hit/photo/play. Was there something elsewhere to tie it to the play that you saw when you were there? Anyone know? Just curious.

It almost looks like a helmet that was cut off a player, I never saw or heard of one of these even in those days splitting so badly. I know teams were cheap and kept them in circulation forever, but has anyone seen one split like a coconut before? Also, wondering why the facemask was removed or not at least replaced for display. IMHO, the HOF sometimes looks like it operates on a shoestring budget which nowadays shouldn't be the case.

Looking at the patterns of the crack, it looks like Tittle literally got earholed. There would be a tremendous amount of force exerted directly at the right earhole that resulted in two distinct cracks in such a manner.

One thing I wouldn't want to do is calculate the amount of force needed to do that. I guess I could find an old helmet and put it in a hydraulic log-splitter to see.

aeneas01
09-06-2008, 05:33 AM
when i first saw a photo of this helmet some time ago i assumed the damage was most likely caused by reconditioning stress tests - that perhaps the helmet had collapsed during off-season reconditioning but was not tossed because it belonged to y.a., an all-pro, pro-bowl superstar.

however the hof archivist i recently spoke with told me that y.a. tittle had personally presented the helmet to the hall and the helmet was not linked to the famous photo nor was the damage caused by reconditioning stress tests. according to the archivist y.a. told the hall that he had slammed his helmet (this helmet) to the ground in frustration and it cracked. whether this took place in practice or in a game is unclear.

gotta love the red paint that can be seen on the inside of the helmet and under the navy paint - undoubtedly the result of his helmet being painted red for his pro bowl appearances (during that era the pro bowl consisted of the east vs west - the east wore red, including red helmets, while the west wore blue).

here's another shot of the hof helmet - the optional riddell cuncussion padding, commonly found in giants helmets from that era, can be clearly seen...

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/aeneas1/sub/ya.jpg

mvandor
09-06-2008, 10:21 AM
Thanks for the back story, surprised for display purposes that they didn't at least replace the facemask. Honestly, though, Y.A. smashing his helmet in frustration at an unknown time and place hardly makes that act or this particular lid HOF memorable. I'd think the Hall coulda scored a better example...

aeneas01
09-06-2008, 11:33 PM
Thanks for the back story, surprised for display purposes that they didn't at least replace the facemask. Honestly, though, Y.A. smashing his helmet in frustration at an unknown time and place hardly makes that act or this particular lid HOF memorable. I'd think the Hall coulda scored a better example...

i think your comment "I'd think the Hall coulda scored a better example..." perfectly illustrates the general impression that most have - that vintage helmets once belonging to the game's greatest players ever are kicking around out there. and imho there's a very good reason why many believe this - because more than a few auction houses and dealers have contributed greatly to this perception for what i think are obvious reasons.

but the reality is that vintage helmets once belonging to the league's elite are extremely, extremely rare - and most have been lost forever. as such, the fact that the hall was able to get their hands on a y.a. tittle gamer strikes me as astonishing. especially when one considers that the hall didn't open its doors until 1963 and that, generally speaking, game used equipment was not considered the holy grail that it is today.

a few years ago i came across a great article - it was an interview with a longtime nfl equipment manager. among other things the em mentioned that "back in the day" helmets were not assigned to specific players for longtime use. that at the end of the season he would round up all of the helmets and box them up for reconditioning. when the helmets were returned for the following year's use, the em would put them out in a pile and incoming players, including seasoned vets, would rifle through them until they found one that gave them a good fit. once this was done the em would scribble the player's name and/or number on the inside of the helmet and fit the lids with facemasks at a later date.

while it's true that some players grew attached to their helmets and managed to use the same lid for much of their career, many, many other players from that era, including the stars, only wore a lid for a relaively short period before it was sent to the reconditioner to be recycled or destroyed. and god only knows how many vintage gamers that once belonged to the league's best found their way out of the locker room and into the hands of a player's friend, a star-stuck kid, the local watering hole, etc. only to be forgotten and tossed away when moving day rolled around.

because of this i'm always extremely skeptical when a vintage helmet surfaces that was said to have once belonged to a great player - regardless of the great story behind the helmet. the total number of helmets ever issued to the greatest players of yesteryear is minute to begin with - which imo makes the chances that they survived harms way for 50+ years even more minute.


...

commando
09-07-2008, 03:53 AM
but the reality is that vintage helmets once belonging to the league's elite are extremely, extremely rare - and most have been lost forever...

Ironically, the irreparable damage to the helmet is probably why it still exists today... Were it not for this damage, the helmet would have probably met the fate you speak of -- reconditioning, reuse, and eventually just thrown away when it was too beat up to be of further service.

mvandor
09-07-2008, 09:45 AM
Ironically, the irreparable damage to the helmet is probably why it still exists today... Were it not for this damage, the helmet would have probably met the fate you speak of -- reconditioning, reuse, and eventually just thrown away when it was too beat up to be of further service.
Actually, given its condition, I find it very odd it wasn't trashed in the 60's. Logically, seems to me that a good lid would have a better chance of surviving as a keepsake than this one.

Still say they coulda slapped a facemask on that puppy (I know the more beat up they are the more Robert likes em though!).

cohibasmoker
09-07-2008, 10:29 AM
Actually, given its condition, I find it very odd it wasn't trashed in the 60's. Logically, seems to me that a good lid would have a better chance of surviving as a keepsake than this one.

Still say they coulda slapped a facemask on that puppy (I know the more beat up they are the more Robert likes em though!).

I'am with Robert in that I'd take any professional suspension helmet regardless of their condition. As long as they are all-original, the more they are banged up, the better.

I think the Tittle helmet is awesome in that it is a prime example of the way the guys played back in the day as well as just how scarce vintage helmets actually are. As commando wrote, "reconditioning, reuse, and eventually just thrown away when it was too beat up to be of further service", is a very accurate statement.

Finally, I'd like to take this opportunity to post the following: if anyone on this forum has any original professional suspension helmets lying around, please LMK what you have. My email address is flaa1a@comcast.net

Jim

aeneas01
09-07-2008, 06:00 PM
Ironically, the irreparable damage to the helmet is probably why it still exists today... Were it not for this damage, the helmet would have probably met the fate you speak of -- reconditioning, reuse, and eventually just thrown away when it was too beat up to be of further service.

exactly my friend - ironic, eh?


I'am with Robert in that I'd take any professional suspension helmet regardless of their condition. As long as they are all-original, the more they are banged up, the better.

what's up with old geezers like us that seem to be attracted most to old gear? they are something tho, those old vintage lids, aren't they?

...

skipcarayislegend
09-08-2008, 11:49 AM
Great stuff, guys. Thanks for contributing all of it. I could read posts like those all day.