Clemens GU BB -- Check the Story!

[earlywynnfan]

Check out this baseball from Verkman auctions. I love the story behind the ball:

http://www.csauctions.com/item.cgi?show_item=0000277761

I understand that it's 20 years later, and the lady who caught the ball was a little naive, but I really think this is kind of crummy. I know, most GU items aren't exactly gotten legitimately, but come on, making money on this just stinks.

Any thoughts?

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[Vintagedeputy]

my question would be, why wasnt the ball returned to her?

[chakes89]

And why they are knowingly offering stolen merchandise

[earlywynnfan]

I called the auction house. They said that after 20 years, they didn't feel it was their job to try to track her down. They said that if she came forward, they'd definitely pull the ball and have her deal with the consignor.

I guess it's well known that the Red Sox of the 70's were a jerky bunch, as far as the front office goes. So for them to not honor her request is no surprise (to anyone but her, I guess.) But for them to leave it around long enough for someone to take it home, then try to sell it off, is dirty.

I wish I lived in the Boston area; I'd try to find her.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[TFig27]

I found 1 Smyth in Brookline

Smyth, J
Brookline, MA 02445
617-731-6495


I think it would be neat if someone called and getting the ball back to the original owner.

[jppopma]

I hope someone finds her and gets the ball back, this is about as low as I have seen (and pretty damn ballsy too).

Looks to me that they are setting up a very nice case against themselves. I love their 20 year rule..the ball is still stolen (or a better legal term would be "Converted") and I can't say I have ever heard that if you steal something and hide it for 20 years it becomes your's.

If your neighbor comes over and ask you to hide a stolen car in yourt garage and then sell it for him...do you think the police will accept your story about it not being your place to hunt down the victim. Not as chance.

In case they wish to make some plans for 2 years or so...here's some good reading below. Add transporting stolen property accross state lines and you may be looking at more in a federal case.


Massachusetts General Laws - Crimes Against Property - Chapter 266, Section 60
Stolen goods; buying or receiving.
Section 60. Whoever buys, receives or aids in the concealment of stolen or embezzled property, knowing it to have been stolen or embezzled, or whoever with intent to defraud buys, receives or aids in the concealment of property, knowing it to have been obtained from a person by a false pretense of carrying on business and dealing in the ordinary course of trade, shall, if the value of such property does not exceed two hundred and fifty dollars, be punished for a first offense by imprisonment in jail or house of correction for not more than two and one half years, or by a fine of not more than two hundred and fifty dollars; or, if for a second or subsequent offense, or if the value of such property exceeds two hundred and fifty dollars, be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for not more than five years, or by imprisonment in a jail or house of correction for not more than two and one half years or by a fine of not more than five hundred dollars.

[ironmanfan]

Somewhat along these lines, I know a guy in the Orioles front office and he would tell me back when Eddie Murray was a coach with them, that people would 'blindly' send in 500 Home Run autographed balls and request that Eddie add his name to them. The Orioles would honor these requests, but it always surprised me that someone with an item of value would just send something in and assume they'd get it back with no prior communication.

[Vintagedeputy]

I found 2 more listings, each about 45 minutes from Brookline...


ALICE H SMYTH (http://www.zabasearch.com/redirects/zaba_results_blue2maps.php?sname1=ALICE SMYTH&sname=ALICE H SMYTH&first=ALICE&last=SMYTH&middle=H&state=MA&address=303 LINDEN PONDS WAY&city=HINGHAM&zipcode=02043&&cm=&cy=&phone=(781) 749-7573)
303 LINDEN PONDS WAY
HINGHAM, MA 02043 (http://www.zabasearch.com/query1_process.php?sname=02043) (781) 749-7573 (http://www.zabasearch.com/query1_process.php?sname=7817497573)

ALICE H SMYTH (http://www.zabasearch.com/redirects/zaba_results_blue2maps.php?sname1=ALICE SMYTH&sname=ALICE H SMYTH&first=ALICE&last=SMYTH&middle=H&state=MA&address=18 GILSON RD&city=SCITUATE&zipcode=02066&&cm=04&cy=2005&phone=(781) 545-2158)
18 GILSON RD
SCITUATE, MA 02066 (http://www.zabasearch.com/query1_process.php?sname=02066) (781) 545-2158 (http://www.zabasearch.com/query1_process.php?sname=7815452158)

[kingjammy24]

I called the auction house. They said that after 20 years, they didn't feel it was their job to try to track her down. They said that if she came forward, they'd definitely pull the ball and have her deal with the consignor.

it's not their job to track her down but is it their job to accept/reject the consignment knowing full well it's stolen? noone suggested they track her down. common sense and a modicum of ethics would dictate that upon realizing the item is stolen, the auction house would simply return it to the consigner and refuse to list it. common sense and a modicum of ethics seem to be in short supply at several auction houses.

i do love their defense that if the original owner, from 20 yrs ago, would somehow immediately learn that her ball is in some miniscule, no-name auction that they'd then do the right thing and pull the ball. what exactly is stopping them from pulling the ball now and returning it to the consigner?

rudy.

[TFig27]

I'm not sure you can call it stolen. I think there is some law that if something is mailed to you, you are able to keep it. I'm no lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express.

But, the right thing to do would be to track her down. Who's going to start making some phone calls?

[Vintagedeputy]

I called the first number - message left

second number was disconnected

[ifirocked]

I too agree the SHOULD be returned. My only thought is that the ball is not really stolen. If i send AROD a $100 card and ask him to sign it and never get it send back i am the only one at falt. AROD is not required to do anything and nor are the RedSox. If you mail something out without any prior arraingements then you should understand the risks.

[David]

Does a fan have automatic right to own a piece of equipment caught within the stadium? I don't think so. It's true teams regularly allow fans to keep balls the catch, but these are essentially gifts. In the old days, fans weren't allowed to keep a football caught at an NFL game, and security would go into the stands to retrieve each ball.

[David]

I should add that I agree with ifirocked that you can't without warning or contact mail something to someone, and expect them to perform your surprise task (a task that is a benefit only to you, mind you) and return the item. If one could do this, I would send you guys my dirty laundry and expect it back clean by Wednesday.

[David]

One very last point. If the Red Sox had cashed the returned postage check, then they would have been required to return the ball.

[ifirocked]

in awnser to your question David, YES fans have automatic right to own a piece of equipment caught within the stadium. This was decided many many years ago for things like foul balls.

[David]

Okay, then. Under your other point, I would consider the ball essentially unclaimed goods. If she had stopped by to pick it up, she could have it back, but the Red Sox didn't steal it as they weren't under obligation to do anything including mail it back.

[ifirocked]

rights to the ball are given to the fans when they catch it. rights to the ball are given up when they choose to mail it in.

[b.heagy]

rights to the ball are given to the fans when they catch it. rights to the ball are given up when they choose to mail it in.

none of us know whether or not the original owner tried to retrive the ball. Look at mlb.com today. I have read many posts where the customer service is horrible. What makes anyone think that it was any better back then through the mail? Perhaps the original owner tried via written letters through the mail to retrieve the ball with no success. None of us will ever know.

[MRMusial]

I called the first number - message left

Nice job. Hope something good comes of it.