Are Raising Stars Bats Becoming Over Priced?

[jetersbatboy]

Hunter Pence GU Auto Bat $1195.95/OBO
Evan Longoria GU Auto Bat $799.95 starting bid.
Matt Holiday I Think Sold For Around $500
David Wright $1395/OBO
Josh Hamilton GU Auto $795

Just to name a few!!!!!

Some of these guys have only bin in the majors for a year! Legit Star like Posada, Rollins, Tejuda, and Soriano just to name few. Can all be found for under $600 from legit sources. Just was wondering what everyone thought.
I know I have paid some high prices for raising stars and will probably continue to do so. I guess if people are willing to pay, like myself they will continue to sell at these prices.
Thanks Scott

[byergo]

Honestly, since you asked I think it's pure stupidity and those people are going to financially lose their ass on nearly all of those speculative purchases.

[bigtruck260]

If you are planning on investing in these prospects, then you are wasting money. If you are trying to acquire a legit bat at market value, then you have to pay sometimes to play. In today's market, dealers and some collectors are including many years of inflation on these players...you are basically paying up front for the future value of the bat or other item.

This goes on all the time in the collectible marketplace...

I collect Cardinals stuff, meaning I buy the occasional Pujols item. Upper Deck sells a signed baseball for $499 - that is ridiculous, but some people will pay that much. The only way I see a profit being made in the future off of that item is - and God forbid, Albert dies soon. Mantle UD balls are still making people money years after the fact because, like Pujols - his signature is forged so often, that collectors are willing to pay extra because of the reputation of UD. Those balls were expensive when they were first sold too...

Paying $1500 for a bat of a player that has 1 season under his belt is crazy - unless money is no object and you need to have it in hand. If that player gets hurt and his career is ruined the following season - like Byergo said - you will lose your a$$.

[chakes89]

I paid about $450 for my Jay Bruce game used bat

But I didn't do it for investing purposes.

He is my favorite player and I wanted one of his bats


But I do think it is really getting out of hand

[Rob L]

Yep. It's all way overpriced. It's the same thing that happens with Rookie cards. I bought my McGwire and Sosa rookies back in late 1990s when they were all the rage. Did I overspend, you bet. It's always best to wait a few years to see where the market is at. Look at Winfield and Thome bats. They are very reasonably priced for a HOFer and a future HOFer. Bonds prices are going down (for obvious reasons). It's best to try and not snap at something during the hype. It can be hard, but economically, it's the best way to go.

[r_phelps]

I agree with you all but I also know that the market for jay bruce or evan longoria is quite smaller than that of soriano or tejada. simple..supply and demand factors in as well in our market. for those who make a killing on these guys i say 2 words ..well played.

[r_phelps]

And I thought I would add some great examples of busts..Bo Hart,Super Joe McEwing, and Mike Caruso. I remember selling a Bo Hart bat for more than 200!!!

[David]

When a prospect is supposed to be the next Babe Ruth, his prices will later plummet when collector's realize he's merely the next Mel Ott.

[commando]

MOST of those bats will lose considerable value in my opinion. While a few players will make the Hall of Fame, become hometown favorites or be members of a collectible team year (i.e. 1986 Mets, 1982 Brewers), most of these values simply will not hold in the long run.

The list goes on and on with players from the past 30 years who were excellent players in their day... But today are largely forgotten when it comes to collectors and the prices they pay. Darrell Evans, Tony Armas, Bob Horner, Pedro Guerrero, Manny Trillo, Larry Parrish, Ken Singleton, Al Oliver.... The list of quality players from the past goes on and on... These guys were considered stars on their respective teams at the time but I think the prices of their bats are pretty darn reasonable -- not to mention the fact that their bats are fairly scarce when compared to what's available for today's players.

[David]

A way to view future value of a prospect is to look at the current values of cards, autographs and memorabilia of the lesser HOFer players: Gary Carter, Don Sutton, Bruce Sutter, etc. Most of the stuff from these guys is very affordable, and any current top prospect will be lucky to have half the career of any of these HOFers

[kudu]

I would just wait until the off season, when those type items aren't moving as much. Maybe even go to some of the team FanFests and find some stuff there.

[bigtruck260]

I sold TONS of cards at a garage sale 2 years ago. Included were the following gems:

Gregg Jefferies (decent player)
Ben McDonald
Todd Van Poppel
Shawn Abner
Jerome Walton

Funny, at the time - I probably spent hundreds of dollars in lawn mowing grip trying to get these cards...which in some cases I had 50-60 of. Beckett magazine had them so highly priced that I thought I'd be able to skip high school and pay for a private tutor.

Bats are kind of the same...but at least in some cases a bat can become valuable if that prospect is needed to fill a hole. Doesn't really even need to be a prospect. I once saw a Mark Mulder Cardinals bat go for more than $500. It was no doubt going towards someone's 06 World Series collection.

Funny, I just traded for a Jefferies bat....

[BergerKing22784]

I agree those prices are crazy for these young guys. You just have to be willing to wait it out and wait for the player to play a good # of season so the market gets flooded with their items and it gives them time to establish themselves as either a super star (at that point you can pay the crazy prices), a minor star, or just a journeymen utility guy.

I had that conversation with Andrew L. about the Nationals how I do not get how him and you other Nationals guy pay what you do for those prices consider the team is a last place team full of former nobodys from other teams. But he said its supply and demand as the team is so new there is no items. The prices will go down over the next few years. It is the same effect for these so called future superstars.

[cjclong]

If you are looking at the bat as a financial investment then you are probably running a risk. However, if you are a collector its a somewhat different story. I've become a big fan of Josh Hamilton and I wanted a bat from his first year with the Rangers. If I had to overpay somewhat, so be it. Even if he goes on to have a great career he is probably too old now to wind up as a HOF player, but I'll have the bat from what is hopefully a good career of a player I like.

[thomecollector]

I am blown away by the fact that a guy like Thome , who is going to be in the HOF someday. Still doesn't get the respect he should. You can't even get $300 for his bats, or $500 for a jersey. That's a crock ! While you can see those bats/jerseys for players that have been around a year or two, getting crazy money. We'll see how that works out. I say it doesn't matter how you start, it's how you finish.
I never buy anything as an investment. I buy it cause I want it in my collection.:D

[David]

If Michael Jordan's and Joe Montana's values have gone done with time, these hot prospect's values will go down. Prospect speculating is largely about fads. One or two of the prospect bunch will become HOFers, and most of the rest will become not. As Gary Carter and Bruce Sutter show us, even if a hot prospect does become a HOFer, his prices likely will still fall.

[skyking26]

Good thread topic. I've touched on it myself from time to time and experienced the inflation for many years. Back when Cecil Fielder came to Detroit from Japan and smacked 51 HRS - his bats were selling well over $400 and this was 1990. Foolishly I bought a few. Cecil had a decent career and went onto a WS ring with NY in 96, but his last years were spent hopping from team to team and his off-field theatrics post career (gambling) have tainted his accomplishments. Today, you'd be lucky to get $100 for a Cecil bat. However, I received a dealer email today for a Prince Fielder gamer OVER $500! Forget it. Speculation is not the way to go folks.

I agree with the posts written, a few months ago I struggled to get $300 for a Thome bat! The man is approaching 600 HRS. What does Jim Thome have to do to get attention? Anyone? Simple fact, buy what you want for your collection and forget about resale.

I'm currently off for a bit with a medical issue and am spending time going thru my collection. I happened upon an old SCD today from 76. There was an ad in there for late 60's early 70's flannels (mostly HOF's) all starting at $75! If we only knew...

[Vintagedeputy]

I had that conversation with Andrew L. about the Nationals how I do not get how him and you other Nationals guy pay what you do for those prices consider the team is a last place team full of former nobodys from other teams. But he said its supply and demand as the team is so new there is no items. The prices will go down over the next few years. It is the same effect for these so called future superstars.


I'm a Nats fan and collector so I think that I can speak about this team a bit. To categorize them as a "last place team full of former nobodys from other teams" is really an unfair categorization. The issue is pitching and injuries. Christain Guzman is 6th in the league in hits, 7th in average and just belted another 2 home runs tonight. Many teams were looking at Ronnie Belliard at the trade deadline. He's a fantastic infielder and hitter. Aaron Boone is a fan favorite and has some fans on this forum as well. Zimmerman is an outstanding 3rd baseman and the future of the franchise.

The Nats have no pitching, zero, zilch. That's the issue. We have a couple of arms that could be #4 or 5 starters on other teams but they are untested rookies who need some time under their belts. Guys like Hanrahan have amazing stuff but not enough confidence in his ability and has been relegated to the closer role.

As far as position players, you have to really watch the team on a daily basis to see the future. Trust me, its there. We all know that Zimmerman is going to be a superstar. Even the announcers tonight said that if Zim was in the NY Mets line up, he'd be considered every bit as good as David Wright. There are a number of other hitters that have some real promise. Once these guys get some pitching, they'll be the new Tampa Bay Rays. They will come from nowhere and be great, but its going to be down the road a bit. Laugh now, but the team will come around.

[chakes89]

Oh to be able to go back in time with a suitcase full of money and an empty duffle bag.

One can dream I guess :D

[Gyro123]

Three quick points after reading this thread

1. I agree that bats of rising stars (Longoria, Bruce, Braun, etc.) tend to command a premium. I cannot say however this differs from most other industries. There are people out there who want the latest and greatest in everything in this world whether it be Tv's, Ipods, Cell Phones, etc. Simply put there is a large percentage of people out there that will pay a premium to be the first to own the latest and greatest. Hence the high prices.

2. While I think the current state of the economy has a lot to do with bats of current stars such as Jim Thome, etc. selling for rather cheap, I do think it warrants mentioning that prime examples of these players bats continue to command top dollar. By prime examples I mean bats that exhibit great use, proper characteristics, predominant model, etc. We must not forget with game used becoming so prevelant there is a much greater supply of these items available in todays market place. More often then not, most star player bats that present themselves in the hobby do not qualify as prime examples. I cannot begin to tell you how many less then stellar Manny, Ortiz, Vlad, Pujols, Arod, and Jeter bats I have seen over the past few years. Game used bats of these players are seemingly available in great quantity but the majority tend to show little use or have other imperfections affecting their values. Simply put I am of the belief that a pristine example of any of these players bats would still command top dollar.

3. How do you see the Nats as being anywheres close to the Rays? The Rays had (Crawford, Shields, Upton, Kazmir, etc) and have (Price, Longoria, etc.) a ton of young studs. The Nationals system is by all accounts horrid, with very little help on the way. Heck they couldn't even sign their top pick in this years draft, Aaron Crow. While I do like Zimmerman, Milledge and Dukes. They all have some question marks at this point. Zimmerman has failed to take that next step. Milledge faces questions about his commitment and Dukes' personality issues are well documented. You should hang your hopes on young pitching prospect Ross Detwiler not 26 year old John Hanrahan. It should also be noted that Zimmerman not being in NY is not the only thing seperating him from being David Wright. There's that little thing we refer to as production. Look it up the numbers don't lie. Lastly, Ronnie Belliard while capable is far from being an outstanding infielder. If he is such a franchise cornerstone why trade Rauch for perceived 2b of the future Emilio Bonifacio. Yes teams looked at him at the deadline and on waivers, but it was strictly as an injury replacement (DBacks for Hudson) or to block another team from acquiring him (Dodgers preventing DBacks from swinging a deal).

[Vintagedeputy]

3. How do you see the Nats as being anywheres close to the Rays? The Rays had (Crawford, Shields, Upton, Kazmir, etc) and have (Price, Longoria, etc.) a ton of young studs. The Nationals system is by all accounts horrid, with very little help on the way. Heck they couldn't even sign their top pick in this years draft, Aaron Crow. While I do like Zimmerman, Milledge and Dukes. They all have some question marks at this point. Zimmerman has failed to take that next step. Milledge faces questions about his commitment and Dukes' personality issues are well documented. You should hang your hopes on young pitching prospect Ross Detwiler not 26 year old John Hanrahan. It should also be noted that Zimmerman not being in NY is not the only thing seperating him from being David Wright. There's that little thing we refer to as production. Look it up the numbers don't lie. Lastly, Ronnie Belliard while capable is far from being an outstanding infielder. If he is such a franchise cornerstone why trade Rauch for perceived 2b of the future Emilio Bonifacio. Yes teams looked at him at the deadline and on waivers, but it was strictly as an injury replacement (DBacks for Hudson) or to block another team from acquiring him (Dodgers preventing DBacks from swinging a deal).

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I never said that Belliard was a "franchise cornerstone". He is, however a very under appreciated fielder and hitter. Sure they traded for Bonafacio. The Yankees have a great shortstop in Jeter and signed another SS in Arod and got him to play 3rd. Strange deals happen. You never know why the management made the trade and as good as Belliard is, why not make a trade for someone who may be better?

I watch this team every single day and I feel the comparison to the Rays is valid. Before this season, Scott Kazmir was a scant 6 games over .500 and was cast aside as a Mets minor leaguer with little promise. Now he's having a great season for the Rays. James Shields was a career 2 games over .500 before this season. Crawford was the Rays best slugger for the past few years and never hit more than 18 homers in a season. Upton had a great 2007 but his numbers have been down.

Zimmerman vs. Wright in the production department is not that far off, considering the protection in the line up that Wright gets and the better pitches he sees and the injuries that Zim had.... Look at this - Wright vs. Zim in 2008 142 games vs. 93, 557 AB vs. 371, 162 hits vs. 106, 39 2B's vs. 22, 27 homers vs. 12, 102 strikeouts vs. 63, a .291 BA vs. 286....the numbers are comparable if Zim was not hurt.

Last year, Dmitri Young hit .320 and had a super All Star season. He is a career .292 hitter over 13 seasons. Would other teams love to have a guy like that? Sure they would. Too bad he got injured. Oh yeah, the injuries...every team suffer injuries but look who has been injured for the Nats this year -

09/04/2008 Ronnie Belliard (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/5765/) Day-to-DayStrained right groin09/02/2008 Justin Maxwell (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/8124/) 60-Day DLRight wrist injury09/02/2008 Jesus Flores (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7990/) Day-to-DaySprained left ankle08/25/2008 Austin Kearns (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6851/) 15-Day DLStress fracture, left foot-out 2-4 weeks08/16/2008 Jesus Flores (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7990/) Day-to-DayLeft game - Strained right calf08/05/2008 Alberto Gonzalez (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/8111/) 15-Day DLStrained left hamstring08/03/2008 Elijah Dukes (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7916/) Day-to-DayLeg cramps08/03/2008 Ryan Zimmerman (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7627/) Day-to-DayHand08/03/2008 Elijah Dukes (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7916/) 15-Day DLRight calf strain07/30/2008 Cristian Guzman (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6186/) Day-to-DayLeft thumb contusion07/20/2008 Dmitri Young (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/5699/) 15-Day DLDiabetes complications07/18/2008 Wily Mo Pena (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6522/) 60-Day DLLeft rotator surgery - out for season07/14/2008 Wily Mo Pena (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6522/) Day-to-DaySurgery, left rotator cuff07/11/2008 Dmitri Young (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/5699/) Day-to-DayLeft game - Lower back tightness07/07/2008 Aaron Boone (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/5838/) 15-Day DLStrained left calf07/06/2008 Elijah Dukes (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7916/) 15-Day DLTorn tendons, right knee - out 4-6 weeks07/05/2008 Elijah Dukes (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7916/) Day-to-DayTorn tendons, right knee - out 4-6 weeks07/03/2008 Matt Chico (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7925/) Day-to-DayLeft elbow surgery - out for season06/29/2008 Lastings Milledge (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7706/) 15-Day DLStrained right groin06/28/2008 Lastings Milledge (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7706/) Day-to-DayLeft game - right groin06/25/2008 Shawn Hill (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7350/) 15-Day DLStrained right forearm - out for season06/20/2008 Aaron Boone (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/5838/) Day-to-DaySore left knee06/12/2008 Aaron Boone (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/5838/) Day-to-DayLeft game - Strained neck06/07/2008 Dmitri Young (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/5699/) Day-to-DayFlu-like symptoms06/04/2008 Odalis Perez (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6088/) 15-Day DLLeft shoulder tendinitis05/30/2008 Jesus Flores (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7990/) Day-to-DayConcussion-like symptoms05/26/2008 Ryan Zimmerman (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7627/) 15-Day DLSmall labral tear in left shoulder05/23/2008 Matt Chico (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7925/) 15-Day DLLeft elbow surgery - out for season05/23/2008 Elijah Dukes (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7916/) Day-to-DayLeft game-bruised left ankle05/22/2008 Austin Kearns (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6851/) 15-Day DLRight elbow surgery - out 3-4 weeks05/17/2008 Shawn Hill (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7350/) Day-to-DayRight elbow tightness05/16/2008 Ronnie Belliard (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/5765/) 15-Day DLStrained left calf05/15/2008 Nick Johnson (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6401/) 60-Day DLRight wrist surgery - out for season05/14/2008 Nick Johnson (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6401/) Day-to-DayStrained right wrist05/09/2008 Johnny Estrada (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6720/) 15-Day DLUlnar neuritis in right elbow05/09/2008 Paul Lo Duca (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6032/) 15-Day DLFractured right hand04/30/2008 Chad Cordero (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7221/) 60-Day DLTorn right labrum - out for season04/30/2008 Chad Cordero (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7221/) Day-to-DayTorn shoulder muscle - out 4-6 weeks04/14/2008 Paul Lo Duca (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6032/) 15-Day DLBruised right hand04/13/2008 Paul Lo Duca (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6032/) Day-to-DayLeft game - Bruised right hand04/03/2008 Dmitri Young (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/5699/) 15-Day DLLower back sprain03/31/2008 Elijah Dukes (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7916/) 15-Day DLRight hamstring tightness03/27/2008 Chad Cordero (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7221/) 15-Day DLRight shoulder tendinitis03/21/2008 Wily Mo Pena (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6522/) 15-Day DLLeft oblique strain - out 3-6 weeks03/21/2008 Ryan Wagner (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7183/) 60-Day DLRecovery from right shoulder surgery03/21/2008 Johnny Estrada (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6720/) 15-Day DLRight elbow soreness03/21/2008 Shawn Hill (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7350/) 15-Day DLRight forearm tightness03/05/2008 Paul Lo Duca (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6032/) Day-to-DayRecovery from left knee surgery01/28/2008 Paul Lo Duca (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6032/)

Dukes, Young, Cordero, Johnson, Belliard, Zimmerman, Flores, Boone, Milledge, all the big names are there. Give them a healthy season and let the pitchers figure it out and the potential is absolutely there..

[jetersbatboy]

I guess the high prices are generated by hype and popularity. I route for the Yankees, but collect other players. I have paid ridiculous money for a Cano bat and can see myself paying $500-$900 for a Braun bat. But would not pay that kind of money for a Wright. I guess its preference. As for these future HOF like Thome, Rollins, Kent, Etc. I would pay better money, if there bats where team or player authenticated. I just cant seem to find those. These Future HOF have so many bats out there it makes you wonder if its legit. As for third party authentication, everyone makes mistakes. If theses future HOF, where more willing to authenticate there own equipment, it would make me willing to part with more cash for a bat. I have noticed these younger group of new stars are willing to write game used on there bat or have a agent sell there equipment. You may end up paying a premium but there a better chance its legit. To all there own, some will agree some will disagree.
thanks Scott

[thomecollector]

I guess the high prices are generated by hype and popularity. I route for the Yankees, but collect other players. I have paid ridiculous money for a Cano bat and can see myself paying $500-$900 for a Braun bat. But would not pay that kind of money for a Wright. I guess its preference. As for these future HOF like Thome, Rollins, Kent, Etc. I would pay better money, if there bats where team or player authenticated. I just cant seem to find those. These Future HOF have so many bats out there it makes you wonder if its legit. As for third party authentication, everyone makes mistakes. If theses future HOF, where more willing to authenticate there own equipment, it would make me willing to part with more cash for a bat. I have noticed these younger group of new stars are willing to write game used on there bat or have a agent sell there equipment. You may end up paying a premium but there a better chance its legit. To all there own, some will agree some will disagree.
thanks Scott
Scott,
I agree that a team /player authenticated bat is more desirable. As
a guy that has collected Thome exclusively for almost 15 years. I have seen little if any ever team authenicated. Thome very rarely will authenticate any. When it comes to his stuff you have to know his characteristics. I don't have anything in my collection as far as a bat that is authenticated by team / player. I have only seen one or two ever MLB authenticated. I spent about thirty minutes sitting with Thome in Baltimore a few weeks back. He was asking me how I obtain some of my items. He really doesn't get into the whole selling his stuff thing. I wish he did. I know there is a bunch of stuff I would love to have. Anyway, I would buy his bats at $200-$300 any time
if they showed the proper atributes. :D

[FastLane80]

I cannot agree more. Here's one example that made my jaw drop: http://www.steinersports.com/ssm/control/product/~pcategory=1001/~category=DODGERS_JERSEYS/~pid=200811551410054CK

Granted, just because it's advertised for that price, doesn't mean it's going to sell but I think stores like this help promote the overinflated prices.

[Vintagedeputy]

I cannot agree more. Here's one example that made my jaw drop: http://www.steinersports.com/ssm/control/product/~pcategory=1001/~category=DODGERS_JERSEYS/~pid=200811551410054CK

Granted, just because it's advertised for that price, doesn't mean it's going to sell but I think stores like this help promote the overinflated prices.

Now that is truly sad....15K, wow

[jetersbatboy]

Who is Kershaw? What has he done for his jersey to be worth 15k? This is killing are hobby! To price a nobody, not even a top 10 prospect with a beyond ridiculos price.

[FastLane80]

Who is Kershaw? What has he done for his jersey to be worth 15k? This is killing are hobby! To price a nobody, not even a top 10 prospect with a beyond ridiculos price.Yeah he's a top prospect but so was Darren Dreifort and that didn't pan out too well. That jersey is priced in Drysdale terriotory. For the record, everything on Steiner is way overpriced. I'd love to buy a Russell Martin, James Loney or Andre Ethier game used bat but they're asking $600 for a cracked bat!

[allstarsplus]

I'm a Nats fan and collector so I think that I can speak about this team a bit. To categorize them as a "last place team full of former nobodys from other teams" is really an unfair categorization. The issue is pitching and injuries. Christain Guzman is 6th in the league in hits, 7th in average and just belted another 2 home runs tonight. Many teams were looking at Ronnie Belliard at the trade deadline. He's a fantastic infielder and hitter. Aaron Boone is a fan favorite and has some fans on this forum as well. Zimmerman is an outstanding 3rd baseman and the future of the franchise.

The Nats have no pitching, zero, zilch. That's the issue. We have a couple of arms that could be #4 or 5 starters on other teams but they are untested rookies who need some time under their belts. Guys like Hanrahan have amazing stuff but not enough confidence in his ability and has been relegated to the closer role.

As far as position players, you have to really watch the team on a daily basis to see the future. Trust me, its there. We all know that Zimmerman is going to be a superstar. Even the announcers tonight said that if Zim was in the NY Mets line up, he'd be considered every bit as good as David Wright. There are a number of other hitters that have some real promise. Once these guys get some pitching, they'll be the new Tampa Bay Rays. They will come from nowhere and be great, but its going to be down the road a bit. Laugh now, but the team will come around.

Jim - I agree 110% with you. This team has potential and when Jesus Flores, Zim, Milledge and Dukes are in the same lineup the team won this year over .500+. This team has been killed with injuries this year.

Prices have dropped from where the 2005 prices were because it was the 1st year of a new team, and 2008 prices have been good because it was 1st year in a new stadium.

If you want an auto'd Zim bat you have only one place to go which is Locker Room Memorabilia and their sales are good. There are very few other bats of his out there so like I told Brian Berger it is supply & demand.

While I generally agree with Gyro Richardson, I think the point of comparing Zim to David Wright is more to that Zim had no coverage in the lineup last year and very little this year at times. Wright has Jose Reyes, Carlos Beltran, and Carlos Delgado. Ryan Church who played for the Nationals raised his batting average 20 points going to the Mets. It is a hypothetical which I happen to agree with Jim (VintageDeputy) but hey we all have our opinions.

[allstarsplus]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I never said that Belliard was a "franchise cornerstone". He is, however a very under appreciated fielder and hitter. Sure they traded for Bonafacio. The Yankees have a great shortstop in Jeter and signed another SS in Arod and got him to play 3rd. Strange deals happen. You never know why the management made the trade and as good as Belliard is, why not make a trade for someone who may be better?

I watch this team every single day and I feel the comparison to the Rays is valid. Before this season, Scott Kazmir was a scant 6 games over .500 and was cast aside as a Mets minor leaguer with little promise. Now he's having a great season for the Rays. James Shields was a career 2 games over .500 before this season. Crawford was the Rays best slugger for the past few years and never hit more than 18 homers in a season. Upton had a great 2007 but his numbers have been down.

Zimmerman vs. Wright in the production department is not that far off, considering the protection in the line up that Wright gets and the better pitches he sees and the injuries that Zim had.... Look at this - Wright vs. Zim in 2008 142 games vs. 93, 557 AB vs. 371, 162 hits vs. 106, 39 2B's vs. 22, 27 homers vs. 12, 102 strikeouts vs. 63, a .291 BA vs. 286....the numbers are comparable if Zim was not hurt.

Last year, Dmitri Young hit .320 and had a super All Star season. He is a career .292 hitter over 13 seasons. Would other teams love to have a guy like that? Sure they would. Too bad he got injured. Oh yeah, the injuries...every team suffer injuries but look who has been injured for the Nats this year -

09/04/2008 Ronnie Belliard (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/5765/) Day-to-DayStrained right groin09/02/2008 Justin Maxwell (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/8124/) 60-Day DLRight wrist injury09/02/2008 Jesus Flores (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7990/) Day-to-DaySprained left ankle08/25/2008 Austin Kearns (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6851/) 15-Day DLStress fracture, left foot-out 2-4 weeks08/16/2008 Jesus Flores (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7990/) Day-to-DayLeft game - Strained right calf08/05/2008 Alberto Gonzalez (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/8111/) 15-Day DLStrained left hamstring08/03/2008 Elijah Dukes (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7916/) Day-to-DayLeg cramps08/03/2008 Ryan Zimmerman (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7627/) Day-to-DayHand08/03/2008 Elijah Dukes (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7916/) 15-Day DLRight calf strain07/30/2008 Cristian Guzman (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6186/) Day-to-DayLeft thumb contusion07/20/2008 Dmitri Young (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/5699/) 15-Day DLDiabetes complications07/18/2008 Wily Mo Pena (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6522/) 60-Day DLLeft rotator surgery - out for season07/14/2008 Wily Mo Pena (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6522/) Day-to-DaySurgery, left rotator cuff07/11/2008 Dmitri Young (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/5699/) Day-to-DayLeft game - Lower back tightness07/07/2008 Aaron Boone (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/5838/) 15-Day DLStrained left calf07/06/2008 Elijah Dukes (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7916/) 15-Day DLTorn tendons, right knee - out 4-6 weeks07/05/2008 Elijah Dukes (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7916/) Day-to-DayTorn tendons, right knee - out 4-6 weeks07/03/2008 Matt Chico (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7925/) Day-to-DayLeft elbow surgery - out for season06/29/2008 Lastings Milledge (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7706/) 15-Day DLStrained right groin06/28/2008 Lastings Milledge (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7706/) Day-to-DayLeft game - right groin06/25/2008 Shawn Hill (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7350/) 15-Day DLStrained right forearm - out for season06/20/2008 Aaron Boone (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/5838/) Day-to-DaySore left knee06/12/2008 Aaron Boone (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/5838/) Day-to-DayLeft game - Strained neck06/07/2008 Dmitri Young (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/5699/) Day-to-DayFlu-like symptoms06/04/2008 Odalis Perez (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6088/) 15-Day DLLeft shoulder tendinitis05/30/2008 Jesus Flores (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7990/) Day-to-DayConcussion-like symptoms05/26/2008 Ryan Zimmerman (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7627/) 15-Day DLSmall labral tear in left shoulder05/23/2008 Matt Chico (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7925/) 15-Day DLLeft elbow surgery - out for season05/23/2008 Elijah Dukes (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7916/) Day-to-DayLeft game-bruised left ankle05/22/2008 Austin Kearns (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6851/) 15-Day DLRight elbow surgery - out 3-4 weeks05/17/2008 Shawn Hill (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7350/) Day-to-DayRight elbow tightness05/16/2008 Ronnie Belliard (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/5765/) 15-Day DLStrained left calf05/15/2008 Nick Johnson (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6401/) 60-Day DLRight wrist surgery - out for season05/14/2008 Nick Johnson (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6401/) Day-to-DayStrained right wrist05/09/2008 Johnny Estrada (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6720/) 15-Day DLUlnar neuritis in right elbow05/09/2008 Paul Lo Duca (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6032/) 15-Day DLFractured right hand04/30/2008 Chad Cordero (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7221/) 60-Day DLTorn right labrum - out for season04/30/2008 Chad Cordero (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7221/) Day-to-DayTorn shoulder muscle - out 4-6 weeks04/14/2008 Paul Lo Duca (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6032/) 15-Day DLBruised right hand04/13/2008 Paul Lo Duca (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6032/) Day-to-DayLeft game - Bruised right hand04/03/2008 Dmitri Young (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/5699/) 15-Day DLLower back sprain03/31/2008 Elijah Dukes (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7916/) 15-Day DLRight hamstring tightness03/27/2008 Chad Cordero (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7221/) 15-Day DLRight shoulder tendinitis03/21/2008 Wily Mo Pena (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6522/) 15-Day DLLeft oblique strain - out 3-6 weeks03/21/2008 Ryan Wagner (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7183/) 60-Day DLRecovery from right shoulder surgery03/21/2008 Johnny Estrada (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6720/) 15-Day DLRight elbow soreness03/21/2008 Shawn Hill (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7350/) 15-Day DLRight forearm tightness03/05/2008 Paul Lo Duca (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6032/) Day-to-DayRecovery from left knee surgery01/28/2008 Paul Lo Duca (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6032/)

Dukes, Young, Cordero, Johnson, Belliard, Zimmerman, Flores, Boone, Milledge, all the big names are there. Give them a healthy season and let the pitchers figure it out and the potential is absolutely there..

Jim - I am working forward chronologically on this thread and just read this Post!!! AWESOME!!!! We have to stick up for our boys in DC!

If we had a 1/2 decent bullpen we would have taken the last 2 games from the Mets!!!!

The baseball the Nats have played since August 1st gives us a lot of hope for next season. If we get a couple of good pickups in the off-season(especially at First Base & a #1 pitcher) we will make a run next year-----

[Vintagedeputy]

Jim - I am working forward chronologically on this thread and just read this Post!!! AWESOME!!!! We have to stick up for our boys in DC!

If we had a 1/2 decent bullpen we would have taken the last 2 games from the Mets!!!!

The baseball the Nats have played since August 1st gives us a lot of hope for next season. If we get a couple of good pickups in the off-season(especially at First Base & a #1 pitcher) we will make a run next year-----

Agreed!

[markfd]

Jim/Andrew,

Flores + Zim + Dukes + Milledge = Hope for the future!


Mark
------------------
markfd@hotmail.com
Always Collecting Yankees and Nationals Game Used Items

[Vintagedeputy]

Jim/Andrew,

Flores + Zim + Dukes + Milledge = Hope for the future!


Mark
------------------
markfd@hotmail.com
Always Collecting Yankees and Nationals Game Used Items

Mark - I agree. There's a few other names I'd add to that, like Hanrahan, Bonafacio, Gonzalez, and maybe some of the young arms that need seasoning like Ballester. I think the potential is definitely there.

[allstarsplus]

Mark - I agree. There's a few other names I'd add to that, like Hanrahan, Bonafacio, Gonzalez, and maybe some of the young arms that need seasoning like Ballester. I think the potential is definitely there.


I AM DRINKING THE KOOL-AID. I BELIEVE THAT 2011 IS PLAYOFF BASEBALL IN DC!!!! ;)