Steiner Sports Authentication Policy - Muhammad Ali

[trsent]

I read the following on the Steiner Sports web site:

http://www.steinersports.com/ssm/i/au-authentication-process.gif
http://www.steinersports.com/ssm/i/au-witness.jpghttp://www.steinersports.com/ssm/i/number-1.gifhttp://www.steinersports.com/ssm/i/au-witness-title.gif Each and every hand-signed collectible that carries a tamper-proof hologram is witnessed by a Steiner Sports representative. Once the collectibles have been autographed, they are cataloged and inventoried.

http://www.steinersports.com/ssm/i/au-affidavit.jpghttp://www.steinersports.com/ssm/i/number-2.gifhttp://www.steinersports.com/ssm/i/au-affidavit-title.gif A notarized affidavit is prepared and signed by the athlete and a Steiner Sports representative. The notarized affidavit records the date and location of the signing and also details the items that were signed by the specified athlete. This document is then secured within the Steiner Sports main offices.

http://www.steinersports.com/ssm/i/au-hologram.jpghttp://www.steinersports.com/ssm/i/number-3.gifhttp://www.steinersports.com/ssm/i/au-hologram-title.gif Each hand-signed collectible is examined for quality and signature condition. If the collectible meets the Steiner Sports standard of excellence a tamper-proof Steiner Sports hologram is affixed to the product.

http://www.steinersports.com/ssm/i/au-certificate.jpghttp://www.steinersports.com/ssm/i/number-4.gifhttp://www.steinersports.com/ssm/i/au-certificate-title.gif Once the hand-signed collectible has passed the steps listed above, a Steiner Sports Certificate of Authenticity is created for the collectible. The collectible is then sealed and stored within our main office and is not handled until it is delivered to a sports collectible enthusiast.

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I am concerned about this policy. There have been times Steiner Sports has purchased a collection of autographs and sold them with their certification that they couldn't have possibly seen every item autographed.

The first one I think of is the Gloria Rothestein collection. For those of you who do not know, Gloria Rothestein was a New York card-autograph show promoter for many years during the peek of card shows. She promoted "The East Coast National" and I have no doubt her autographs were authentic, but the news was her collection was sold to Steiner Sports and they added their authenticity to her 3rd party autographs.

I also remember when Walter Payton passed away - Steiner Sports bought autographs certified by The Walter Payton Foundation and Walter Payton's family. I have no doubt the autographs were authentic, but it was public knowledge they bought these autographs after his passing and there was no way the could have witnessed them all being autographed.

What raises my concerns today is the fact that if you search on eBay for "Ali Steiner" you can find over 75 individually autographed items. I am concerned how Steiner Sports doesn't advertise for sale any Muhammad Ali autographed items, but they seem to have released a lot of autographed items by Muhammad Ali recently as the market is suddenly flooded with Steiner Sports Muhammad Ali autographed items.

Here is the clincher, these items do not come with Online Authentics to compliment the Steiner Sports COA. I thought all paid autographs of Muhammad Ali presently come also with Online Authentics certification. I have had PSA/DNA examine some of these new items and they have declined to authenticate a few examples of these items currently found on eBay.

I have no way to know if these Muhammad Ali autographs are genuine - I just find it odd how many have surfaced in the marketplace recently, the fact that they are missing Online Authentics certification and the fact that PSA/DNA will not authenticate such items.

I have emailed Steiner Sports the following questions and below it is their first response and then my reply to them:

I see a lot of Steiner Sports certified Muhammad Ali autographed items on eBay these days but I notice none of the items have Online Authentics certification. I looked on the Steiner Sports web site and I cannot find any Muhammad Ali items for sale. I was wondering if Steiner Sports has an affidavit for when Muhammad Ali autographed all these items that recently appear to have been released on the marketplace. If so, can I be sent a copy of the affidavit and if not can you please advise the date of the signing?

I appreciate your response.

Peace.

Joel

Steiner Sports Reply from Efrain Reyes:

Joel,

If you making a purchase on ebay you will need to ask these questions to that seller. We don’t send out copies of our affidavit and can’t give you signing dates.


...and I am currently awaiting a response from my reply to this email:


So, Steiner Sports doesn’t sell Muhammad Ali autographed items on their web site but the marketplace is suddenly flooded with autographs that Steiner Sports will not release when and where they were autographed? How can I buy Steiner Sports items without knowing that Steiner Sports witnessed the autographs as their published policy states?

If you cannot help me, please explain where the missing Online Authentics certification for these item are since I thought all current Muhammad Ali autographed items came with OA certification. I figure you wish to promote your items and not make a customer feel there is something suspicious going on with your vague email below telling me you do not stand behind your COAs.

There are about 75 items currently listed on eBay of Muhammad Ali certified by Steiner Sports.

Please forward my email to management if your reply will be as vague as your last email response.

Peace.

Joel
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Finally - I do not state that this current marketplace flooding of Steiner Sports Muhammad Ali autographs are or are not genuine - I have no clue about this - I just am trying to figure out the whole story about this sudden flood of autographs on the marketplace.

[costas]

did you receive a response back from Steiner?

[mvandor]

Given the state of Ali's health, I have long suspected his wife or someone else close to him has been doing his "behind closed door" signings to keep the money flowing, rather than him personally. He does not do public signings as far as I know. Am I alone in this suspicion?

[bigtruck260]

I agree with you about Ali and the steadiness of his hand. At this point, I am guessing just about anyone who is close to him could pull of a "secretarial signature". It has to be quite a task for guys like JSA and PSA to 'authenticate' them. I would guess that there are a ton of fakes out there that have passed and are in collections as legit.

My opinion only - could be totally incrorrect.

[trsent]

did you receive a response back from Steiner?

Brandon Steiner emailed me yesterday after I asked the customer service representative why he didn't reply to my email and he gave me a phone number to call. I emailed Mr. Steiner last night and am awaiting a reply.

[costas]

thank you Mr. Alpert, please keep up abreast on this matter

[JETEFAN]

Let me start off by stating that this is ONLY MY OPINION.......I remember several instances in the past where I have approached Steiner in regards to gamers from specific retired Yankess, I was told that because the player was retired, what they had in inventory if anything would be it ..since they get the items straight from the Yankees and that player no longer is active, no more items would be available. However items from those players have continued to surface on Steiner's website for sale over the years. This leads me to believe that they must have been aquired through a third party.....nothing wrong with that if the item is legit, but in my eyes that makes them game used retailers that aquire some items through third party sources just like the hundreds of other great dealers in the hobby. The well has run dry on past players and the only items obtainable through the Yanks are current players which makes for poor inventory base. I guess it's do what you need to do to stay afloat ! Like it has been said here in the past, DO YOUR HOMEWORK, you can get great Yankees items not only from Steiner but from many other great sources out there..

George

[trsent]

Let me start off by stating that this is ONLY MY OPINION.......I remember several instances in the past where I have approached Steiner in regards to gamers from specific retired Yankess, I was told that because the player was retired, what they had in inventory if anything would be it ..since they get the items straight from the Yankees and that player no longer is active, no more items would be available. However items from those players have continued to surface on Steiner's website for sale over the years. This leads me to believe that they must have been aquired through a third party.....nothing wrong with that if the item is legit, but in my eyes that makes them game used retailers that aquire some items through third party sources just like the hundreds of other great dealers in the hobby. The well has run dry on past players and the only items obtainable through the Yanks are current players which makes for poor inventory base. I guess it's do what you need to do to stay afloat ! Like it has been said here in the past, DO YOUR HOMEWORK, you can get great Yankees items not only from Steiner but from many other great sources out there..

George

George, I was told that The Yankees just kept finding more jerseys in storage and that is where they came from. This is from someone who worked with Steiner Sports very closely.

I do not believe there is any proof or reason to believe they bought jerseys from anyone but The Yankees.

[JETEFAN]

George, I was told that The Yankees just kept finding more jerseys in storage and that is where they came from. This is from someone who worked with Steiner Sports very closely.

I do not believe there is any proof or reason to believe they bought jerseys from anyone but The Yankees.

Joel,
Again, this is only my opinion, but I find it hard to believe that there is a bottomless well of Yankees items that just keeps showing up, Steiner has been at this for several years now and I think there has been enough time to "search through the boxes." How much storage could there be? Most of what was offered was modern day Yankees (late 80's to present). "proof" no, reason to believe, yes !!
George

[trsent]

Joel,
Again, this is only my opinion, but I find it hard to believe that there is a bottomless well of Yankees items that just keeps showing up, Steiner has been at this for several years now and I think there has been enough time to "search through the boxes." How much storage could there be? Most of what was offered was modern day Yankees (late 80's to present). "proof" no, reason to believe, yes !!
George

George, I am sorry you feel that way, but a friend who works for someone who has worked with Steiner Sports as a retail partner in the past said that The Yankees had a seemingly endless supply and back-stock of items that kept being dug up in the storage of Yankee Stadium.

Speculation doesn't mean wrongdoing for your situation.

As for an update, I will be speaking to Brandon Steiner Monday and hopefully my concerns will be addressed.

[stitzerfse]

I've got to go with Joel on this one. Have you guys read the Yankee Stadium article in the 9/22 edition of Sports Illustrated? Page 59-60 . . . "The Yankees have spent a year combing every narrow hallway and dark storage closet to assemble an inventory of every item within me. They opened up one storage room, for instance, and discovered more than 1,000 cracked bats, game used jerseys (mostly from the 1980s and '90s) and steamer-type trunks used to haul Yankees equipment."

The article goes on to give a quote from Brandon Steiner that they will assist the Yankees at selling these items off, all at auction.

Doug