Manny Bats - any advice??

[nationals2k9]

Hi All,

I am new to the forum and fairly new to bat collecting. I started out by acquiring a Hank Blalock bat directly from the Rangers and then bought an Utley (favorite player) and now suddenly own about 15 bats total. Been tracking Manny lately, picked up a 2008 Diablo (realized it was banned by MLB and likely used in ST or Japan) and later a 2003-04 Old Hickory, both will full PSA/DNA letters and hopefully both from trusted sellers. I don't think either was a steady gamer by any means... but each is cracked as well as doctored up with Manny characteristics.

The problem I'm having now is finding a method in which to continue my Manny pursuit that keeps me from being tempted by some of the junk out there... but also able to recognize a deal when I see one. The X-Bat with flag below trademark is a very confusing one, especially the one ASI has on Ebay now which I keep telling myself I shouldn't go for. I've seen pics of Manny with the same model all over the place... but it just seems fishy it's sitting there at $500 with no interest. I've also read on here that Manny D-bats are bad and have seen several that are far too pristine or have no back story to be trusted g/u bats.

Can anyone, esp Manny fans/collectors let me know a few guidelines to stand by top know I'm getting the real thing and truly investing in this player? I personally look for player trademarks (as we all do) and like a full PSA/DNA letter to be already done... but even that I have seen criticized.

Thank You, Mike

[gameused]

Mike,

Welcome to the forum, I'm an avid Manny collector and can help you with any questions you have, shoot me an e-mail at hawaii_five0@yahoo.com

Thanks, Bobby

[scottanservitz]

Mike,
I too had many questions about a Manny bat I purchased a few years back. It was about a tape job on my bat. I researced and although there were skeptics about the tape, members here and my own research found he indeed did use that type of tape. Manny is very particular about his bats, but you have to realize he tries many different bats and tape patterns to find his preference. Here is the link. It should shed some info that may help you decide on your purchase.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=9158&page=4

Scott

[matt]

Welcome to the forum!

Bobby is unquestionably the expert here, but let me offer some thoughts after 2-3 years of Manny collecting. I love Manny, BUT there are a few reasons he is really a challenge to collect well. Specifically:

1. Differentiating his practice bats from his game bats is tough since he changes models alot and all the bat companies send him samples which he practices with, gives away and probably lets his kids use in the back yard. They are all eventually marketed as Manny GU bats and all have his name and the right specs. Since Manny is famous for hitting for hours every day, many times in a cage, we have lots of bats to be sold. Then there are also all the promo bats that get sold as game issued and then doctored up (there are some SAM's I have seen like that).

2. This situation is made more diofficult because Manny (like Arod) will sign just about anything that is not nailed down as "Game Used" for $150. Now we have all sorts of bats flying around saying "GU."

3. The authentication companies seem to be willing to give a COA to just about anything with the right specs (34/32 usually) and some pine tar. I have seen bizarre models that NEVER saw a game get GU7 and 8 ratings. Of course, the authenticators would point out that the term "GU" can mean in BP as well...

4. Manny worked with Elite quite a bit to sell his gear and if you search the forum, you will find most of us worry about this company as a good middleman. I have seen only a few Manny bats with the Steiner and MLB holos ( I own one), and most are broken since most of the MLB Holo items are picked up after breaking in a game. Thus it is hard to find good provenance.

5. So here is what you need to see on a good Manny bat in addition to knowing the model was used (see below):

a. Lots of pine tar on the handle.

b. Hit marks concentrated on the right-hand hitting area (he hits label up). Bats with pounding all around the barrel are often BP, but not always

c. My key: Look for the end of the barrel to be all scratched up since Manny always hits the plate before each swing yet doesn't do it as much in BP. If the end of the bat is trashed, I like it.

d. Good models for 2007-2008: SAM TY or CG1, LVS M9 318, X-bat Model 24 (wine and black). While there are others, these are 90% of his at bats over the last 2 years.

Bobby please correct me on any or all of this!

Matt

[nationals2k9]

Thank you Matt. Bobby has been quick to reply as well which is great!

It appears to me the Diablo I have shows many of the characteristics, is beat up pretty bad on the end, cracked... Bobby questioned the mention of cleat marks in the PSA letter but for a ST bat that has a little history bering banned and all... I'll take it for paying on the low end of the Manny scale.

Old Hickory bat has use characteristics as well incl. trashed end... Bobby questioned the tape, thought maybe it was passed on at one time to another player (provided a pic). But since I've seen the model before and think it's fairly safe to think Manny swung it at some point in BP, ST, game... again I'll take it.

Am I wrong to be OK with calling these 2 bats Manny Ramirez game-used bats (for my own collection purposes only) even if it's not 100% clear they were used by Manny ONLY in ONLY a regular season game?

As I'm figuring out with this all, the fun is in the pursuit of beginning to collect and accumulate, but ultimately these bats and many others will likely be the stepping stones to a more refined and special to me collection.

[matt]

The industry definition of "game used bat" includes use in BP/practice, so you are well within your rights to call these game used. God knows every seller does. It took me 2 years to come to the following conclusion (at the risk of incurring a slew of responses):

The vast (90%?) majority of "game used bats" we see for sale (even in fancy auctions) were NEVER used in a game.

A player might use 100 bats in practice for every 10-20 he uses in games. And those he uses in games, he usually gives away or keeps in a close circle. Until recently with MLB holos, you could never tell what bats were truly game used. Some players devalued the practice of inscribing "GU" on the bats since they call anything GU, so that is also not a great indicator.

Look at the prices paid for vintage bats. There is no way to know if a Mays bat was used in a game unless Willie signed an document. That's why great provenance makes a bat so valuable, and to me, I pay up for a Steiner or MLB holo.

More realistically, we enjoy these bats because our favored players had it in their hands. Price your purchases accordingly.

Just my opinion,
Matt