Game Used Favre Story in SCD

[harpt]

I know there are some here who don't like SCD, but I definately find this story by Chris is interesting.

http://www.sportscollectorsdigest.com/upload/images/PDF/favre.pdf

[indyred]

Very interesting read. Would like to hear Favre take on this. Have any of his Jets game used jerseys hit the market yet?

[allstarsplus]

Great story by Chris Nerat and I will re-read it as I can't believe some of the assertions in there. Some of those Rick Radtke jerseys have me scratching my head as Rick has Posted on here before.

Does Favre wear more than 1 jersey for the 1st and half and another for the 2nd half?

[harpt]

Does Favre wear more than 1 jersey for the 1st and half and another for the 2nd half?

I am not an expert in this area, but I think convention tells us that he changed out at halftime. He could certainly have games where he wore several though...who knows?

That's the great thing about Hankel's examination. He understands all of the possibilities (jersey changes, mislabeled getty images, etc), and does not rely on superficial "evidence." Instead he watches video...the whole video...and examines from all angles, etc.

[allstarsplus]

I am not an expert in this area, but I think convention tells us that he changed out at halftime. He could certainly have games where he wore several though...who knows?

That's the great thing about Hankel's examination. He understands all of the possibilities (jersey changes, mislabeled getty images, etc), and does not rely on superficial "evidence." Instead he watches video...the whole video...and examines from all angles, etc.

Since football players generally only go in the Locker Room at halftime barring an injury, I would think 2 would be the max amount of jerseys these guys would wear in a game.

The fact that they measured out to a 54 or 56 instead of the tagged 52 is downright scary.

I went through archives of Rick Radtke posts:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/search.php?searchid=267887&pp=25

Simply amazing!!!!

[allstarsplus]

After reading the story again, there is no conclusion on where the fakes originated from.

It seems Rick Radtke did the right thing and refunded the money.

My own history with Rick is all positive. He helped me in a Brett Favre art project and Rick and Brett were both very professional.

I wish Rick the best and hope this investigation is fair and impartial and gets to the bottom of this problem.

[kingjammy24]

look you guys, radtke received these jerseys with photos of favre holding them. it's like he said; what else was there to do? check out game photos? actually measure the jerseys? check out the stitching? psh. that's for amateurs who don't have photos of athletes holding their jerseys! i don't think anyone's ever seen a single case of athlete provenance going awry.

seriously though, fantastic article by nerat. who knew he had it in him? chris, does this mean the end of stories about kobe jumping cars and excessive ebay listing fees? if SCD was filled with articles like that in every issue then they'd see subscription numbers soar. higher numbers would mean higher ad rates. certainly a better strategy than pandering to advertisers by refusing to write about anything of substance. anyway chris, really that was a terrific article. i don't even collect or watch football and i really enjoyed the article. just superb. keep it up. there's plenty of garbage out there so you've certainly got no lack of future material.

i love this garbage you hear from people when they get caught with crap and they say "but i got it straight from the athlete! what else was i supposed to do?! there were no photos during the 90s! nobody ever taped any games! we had no books or magazines! we didn't even have a system of measurement for me to be able to measure the @!#&* jersey!". there's no excuse for any of this stuff. sloppy and lazy. people expect to make thousands peddling items but refuse to do any work to actually check things out.

rudy.

[allstarsplus]

i love this garbage you hear from people when they get caught with crap and they say "but i got it straight from the athlete!

rudy. Actually as we see now, the only person who could say it came straight from the athlete appears to be David Thomason.

I was thinking over the handoff of these jerseys from Brett Favre to Thomason to Radtke to the collector.

The article doesn't really give Rick Radtke's in depth persepective of this. It almost seems conclusive that the jerseys are bad with no conclusion on who is telling the truth.

A suggestion to Chris Nerat is to ask Thomason, Radtke and the collector to voluntarily submit to a polygraph.

This is cutting edge investigative reporting that Chris Nerat deserves a lot of credit for his work on this, but again I could come up with 4 whodunits and maybe 5 if you can blame the "mysterious" person from the backroom who switched them out. Just watch an episode of CSI-NY and you will see more twists and turns than your favorite rollercoaster so coming to a conclusion is far from certain.

If those are real Brett Favre autographs/inscriptions on the #4 of these jerseys, then how did that auto/inscription end up on a bogus jersey?

[mvandor]

Really comes down to investigating controls involved at the source. Thomason indicated he got all from Batty or Favre. Is Brett a real organized guy? Or is it possible he just stuffs em into a bag and takes em home where God knows what they'd get mixed up with before turnover to Thomason. Does Favre keep authentics at home for giveaways to charities, etc.?

All kinds of possibilities that don't go to dishonesty but just poor "chain of custody" allowing some bad ones to get mixed in inadvertently.

Hope Nerat follows up to get the results of Thomason's investigation. Class article by Nerat.

[aeneas01]

i'm thinking this hankel guy is just another rabble-rouser and yet one more example of what's bad for the hobby. and i'm getting sick and tired of guys like hankel that recklessly state an item is intentionally altered, that an item is fake and/or misrepresented - as if some might indulge in a concerted effort to bilk collectors out of their game used cash. news flash - people make honest mistakes. as hard as they try to bring us only the most authentic items available, they are only human and not immune to an occasional error. frankly i'm very surprised nerat would even waste his time on such nonsense...

...

[gwh11]

;)
--Guy

[mvandor]

i'm thinking this hankel guy is just another rabble-rouser and yet one more example of what's bad for the hobby. and i'm getting sick and tired of guys like hankel that recklessly state an item is intentionally altered, that an item is fake and/or misrepresented - as if some might indulge in a concerted effort to bilk collectors out of their game used cash. news flash - people make honest mistakes. as hard as they try to bring us only the most authentic items available, they are only human and not immune to an occasional error. frankly i'm very surprised nerat would even waste his time on such nonsense...

...

You're not letting that one go, huh? :)

[aeneas01]

You're not letting that one go, huh? :)
thanks for reminding me - you're another one of those rabble-rousers! i just wish you, kj, hankel and the rest of your lot would simply let the hobby heal. it's a new dawn, there's new hope in the world - breathe it in my friend!

...

[kingjammy24]

according to the article and hankel's opinion, these weren't simply procuts that got mixed in. they were deliberately altered for the purpose of being passed off as legit gamers. the alarming part is that they were signed as gamers by favre. you could easily say that the letters were forged or swapped with bad jerseys. forget the letters for a minute though. the jerseys themselves were signed as gamers. either the inscriptions are forgeries or they're legit. if they're legit then what? was someone making these up and getting favre to sign them after the fact? radtke received them already signed. i'm sure when brett was signing them he wasn't looking at photos and whipping out the measuring tape. perhaps he just signed them all quickly because he trusted the person who was handing them to him to be signed. i don't think favre is the mastermind of a big conspiracy behind producing his fraudulent jerseys. however, IF the inscriptions are legit then what other conclusions can there be? if favre was unknowingly signing bad jerseys, then the person who put them before favre had obtained the bad jerseys. was that person thomason? there aren't too many suspects here. i don't think red batty made them. if he did, he could probably do a much better job. favre didn't make them. bus cook doesn't seem to have a clue or interest in favre's extracurricular memorabilia activities. radtke received them with favre's inscription already on them (if the inscriptions are legit). so who else is left other than thomason?

rudy.

[allstarsplus]

Rudy - I can hear the other conspiracy theory now that the #4 with the real sig and inscription was removed from the real jersey and sewn to a fake one.

I don't know this Hankel guy so maybe he is wrong about the authenticity but those photos that Chris Nerat used showed those weren't the correct jersey used in those particular games.

[kingjammy24]

Rudy - I can hear the other conspiracy theory now that the #4 with the real sig and inscription was removed from the real jersey and sewn to a fake one.

sure, that's always possible too. but, from what i can tell, the number is tackle-twill right? so you're talking about removing the stitching, leaving those noticeable holes, and then re-sewing it. it's one thing to do such an alteration on a jersey where it's possible to cover up the ghost holes on the jersey material but i don't know how easy it'd be to cover it up on a tackle twill number. guy hankel saw 2 of these in person. i'm thinking he'd probably notice re-sewn numbers? you wouldn't see the ghost-stitching on the jersey but rather on the number itself. i think 2 sets of holes on those #4's would be somewhat obvious? it's a thought.

rudy.

[allstarsplus]

sure, that's always possible too. but, from what i can tell, the number is tackle-twill right? so you're talking about removing the stitching, leaving those noticeable holes, and then re-sewing it. it's one thing to do such an alteration on a jersey where it's possible to cover up the ghost holes on the jersey material but i don't know how easy it'd be to cover it up on a tackle twill number. guy hankel saw 2 of these in person. i'm thinking he'd probably notice re-sewn numbers? you wouldn't see the ghost-stitching on the jersey but rather on the number itself. i think 2 sets of holes on those #4's would be somewhat obvious? it's a thought.

rudy.

Rudy - I don't think that was done either, but whenever something is questioned like this the "blame game" starts and the revisionists jump in and the conspiracy theories come about.

Already you have some that believe this is all just a big misunderstanding and an honest mistake happened which is impossible if Hankel is correct.

Like I said, let's see who wants to volunteer for a polygraph.

Hopefully Chris Nerat will throw in some more info on this.

[gwh11]

Regarding the jerseys I examined in hand, I saw no evidence that any numbers were re-sewn.

Guy

[beantown]

Very interesting read and analysis....for the '97 jersey, I did a quick search on eBay and found these....


http://cgi.ebay.com/BRETT-FAVRE-1997-TEAM-ISSUED-WHITE-JERSEY-GREEN-BAY_W0QQitemZ140279203787QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_SM_ Fan_Shop?hash=item140279203787&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A3%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

This jersey is correct for not having the neck line below the horozontal seam, however, it has heat pressed numbers...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Brett-Favre-Authentic-Used-NIKE-Jersey-Packers-Pro-Bowl_W0QQitemZ130268100687QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_SM _Fan_Shop?hash=item130268100687&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318

http://cgi.ebay.com/Packers-Brett-Favre-Authentic-Jersey-NIKE-1997-56_W0QQitemZ270284891985QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_SM_F an_Shop?hash=item270284891985&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318

These two Nike "authentic" store bought jerseys (IMO) have the neck line going below the horizontal line...

When looking at the SCD article/photo of the '97 Favre, it appears that the jersey that is being called into question has more of a "sheen" to the mesh vs. the actual photo of Favre in his game jersey....

Just my thoughts.....

[kingjammy24]

Rudy - I don't think that was done either, but whenever something is questioned like this the "blame game" starts and the revisionists jump in and the conspiracy theories come about.

Already you have some that believe this is all just a big misunderstanding and an honest mistake happened which is impossible if Hankel is correct.

Like I said, let's see who wants to volunteer for a polygraph.

Hopefully Chris Nerat will throw in some more info on this.

andrew lang

you know, you could quickly see if the numbers had been re-sewn if you could take a closer look at the inscriptions. i noticed that on the '97 jersey pictured in nerat's article, a part of the inscription runs to the very edge of the number and presumably over the thread. you could take a look at some of these bad favres and see if the inscription runs over the thread thereby indicating the number was signed after it was sewn on or if the there are breaks in the ink as it goes over the thread thereby indicating the number was re-sewn after it was signed. as easy way of telling whether it was sewn and then signed or signed and re-sewn. maybe nerat can follow up with that and get us a couple of closeups from this towes fellow.

rudy.

[allstarsplus]

andrew lang

you know, you could quickly see if the numbers had been re-sewn if you could take a closer look at the inscriptions. i noticed that on the '97 jersey pictured in nerat's article, a part of the inscription runs to the very edge of the number and presumably over the thread. you could take a look at some of these bad favres and see if the inscription runs over the thread thereby indicating the number was signed after it was sewn on or if the there are breaks in the ink as it goes over the thread thereby indicating the number was re-sewn after it was signed. as easy way of telling whether it was sewn and then signed or signed and re-sewn. maybe nerat can follow up with that and get us a couple of closeups from this towes fellow.

rudy.

Rudy - Trust me, I don't believe that is the case, but there will be many with their own theories and I threw that out as a remote possibility.

[allstarsplus]

Regarding the jerseys I examined in hand, I saw no evidence that any numbers were re-sewn.

Guy This basically throws that alternate theory out the window. Have you determined if the sig/inscription are authentic?

[gwh11]

Typically, these GU Favre jerseys come with a signed letter and a photo of Favre holding the jersey after he had signed it or as he is signing it. The jersey, letter and photo will have the Brett Favre hologram all with the same (matching) number.

In the case of the two jerseys Steve sent to me, I didn't ask to see the accompanying letters and photos. If I recall correctly, I was told they did come with photos of Brett w/the jerseys. Obviously, this leads one to assume that the signatures/inscriptions are Brett's.

Guy

[kingjammy24]

Typically, these GU Favre jerseys come with a signed letter and a photo of Favre holding the jersey after he had signed it or as he is signing it. The jersey, letter and photo will have the Brett Favre hologram all with the same (matching) number.

In the case of the two jerseys Steve sent to me, I didn't ask to see the accompanying letters and photos. If I recall correctly, I was told they did come with photos of Brett w/the jerseys. Obviously, this leads one to assume that the signatures/inscriptions are Brett's.

Guy

if the numbers haven't been resewn, all signatures and inscriptions are legit (which i'd assume they have to be if the photos showing favre with the item are identical to the item at hand), then the only plausible conclusion is that favre was signing bad jerseys. after all, if the jerseys shown in the photos with favre, on the letters, perfectly match the jerseys deemed to be bad, then where else is there to possibly look? if at the time favre was signing the jerseys the jerseys were already bad, then you don't have to go too far to find out what happened.

one wonders if favre was handing over legit gamers to a certain person for the purpose of reselling them and that person was keeping the legit gamers and having favre sign bad shirts. twice the money. favre gives you a legit gamer which you can resell for say $4k. you go out and procure a doctored shirt for a pittance and have favre sign it and the corresponding letter and there's another $4k and all the while favre think he's given you 1 jersey and meanwhile you've sold 2 for the full market rate.

of course i suppose theres always the possibility that an intermediary was used to collect the jerseys from favre and deliver them to thomason. some lackey deliveryboy who got wise to it all and started slipping in the bad ones so he could keep the legit gamers. not sure if favre would give these personally and directly to thomason or if they used some intermediary to deliver them from favre to thomason.

rudy.

[allstarsplus]

if the numbers haven't been resewn, all signatures and inscriptions are legit (which i'd assume they have to be if the photos showing favre with the item are identical to the item at hand), then the only plausible conclusion is that favre was signing bad jerseys. after all, if the jerseys shown in the photos with favre, on the letters, perfectly match the jerseys deemed to be bad, then where else is there to possibly look? if at the time favre was signing the jerseys the jerseys were already bad, then you don't have to go too far to find out what happened.

one wonders if favre was handing over legit gamers to a certain person for the purpose of reselling them and that person was keeping the legit gamers and having favre sign bad shirts. twice the money. favre gives you a legit gamer which you can resell for say $4k. you go out and procure a doctored shirt for a pittance and have favre sign it and the corresponding letter and there's another $4k and all the while favre think he's given you 1 jersey and meanwhile you've sold 2 for the full market rate.

of course i suppose theres always the possibility that an intermediary was used to collect the jerseys from favre and deliver them to thomason. some lackey deliveryboy who got wise to it all and started slipping in the bad ones so he could keep the legit gamers. not sure if favre would give these personally and directly to thomason or if they used some intermediary to deliver them from favre to thomason.

rudy.

Rudy - If I follow your theory, than Rick Radtke would be in the clear.

Now if I read Nerat's notes correctly, Thomason is spearheading an investigation which brings his own impartiality and objectivity into question if he is not in the clear.

Rudy, is that a correct assumption?

[kingjammy24]

Rudy - If I follow your theory, than Rick Radtke would be in the clear.

Now if I read Nerat's notes correctly, Thomason is spearheading an investigation which brings his own impartiality and objectivity into question if he is not in the clear.

Rudy, is that a correct assumption?

here's an example of what came with the favre package:
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=45083

you'd get the letter, a photo of favre holding/signing the actual jersey, and matching holograms on the letter and jersey. if the numbers weren't resewn, then you can clearly match up the jersey in hand to the jersey shown with favre in the photo. (i'm guessing if the numbers were resewn, then things like the number placement may not match up in the photos.) again, if the bad jersey in hand matches the jersey in the photo with favre, then it's clear that favre was signing bad jerseys, isn't it? there isn't much more to it. towes should post the photos he received of favre holding his jersey. if they match up, then there's no other explanation other than favre was signing bad jerseys before they ever even shipped to any dealers.

favre wouldn't just scribble his signature. he'd add all those unique inscriptions such as the date or score or opponent. you can match those perfectly from the jersey in hand to the jersey in the photo so if that's the case it necessarily means favre was signing bad jerseys. i don't think it was rick radtke putting those jerseys in front of favre and taking those photos.

IF, purely for arguments sake here, thomason is behind it, then the notion of him spearheading a campaign to find the culprit isn't only impartial but it's clearly an attempt to divert attention away from himself. like a guy who robbed a bank saying he's going to lead the force into finding out who robbed the bank. noone suspects the guy leading the investigation right?
if you can control the evidence and information uncovered, as head of the investigation, then you can make sure it doesn't point to you. you can also name other suspects and, as head of the investigation, folks are going to believe you've got the proof to be right. purely hypothetical of course.

anyway, check out this oddity on that AMI favre jersey:

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/9409/batid3.jpg

what happened to that poor hologram? looks like a squirrel got at it. of course, there's no mention of the mutilated hologram in AMI's glowing description. everything's sunny here in pleasantville folks, just move along. you'll notice from the favre pics that the holograms are added after he signs them. if you paid over $13k for a favre gamer, with favre letter and photo holding your jersey, wouldn't you take the utmost care with it and especially with that hologram? who attacks a hologram on a $13k jersey with player provenance?

rudy.

[lund6771]

IF, purely for arguments sake here, thomason is behind it, then the notion of him spearheading a campaign to find the culprit isn't only impartial but it's clearly an attempt to divert attention away from himself. like a guy who robbed a bank saying he's going to lead the force into finding out who robbed the bank. noone suspects the guy leading the investigation right?
if you can control the evidence and information uncovered, as head of the investigation, then you can make sure it doesn't point to you. you can also name other suspects and, as head of the investigation, folks are going to believe you've got the proof to be right. purely hypothetical of course.

rudy.


Reminds me of OJ looking for the REAL killer...sure

Radtke is a good guy and I'd be surprised if he knew anything about this scandel

And who is Thomason's crew going to investigate?...himself?...as usual, smells like greed to me

Great article by Nerat...hopefully SCD will continue to persue the interview wih Thomason...if Thomason continues to dodge interviews, hopefully the Attorney General will be getting this info as well....

this will be a very interesting story to follow

Maybe SCD can do an expose on Coach's Corner next and start gaining respect as "the hobby's oldest and largest publication" instead of a being regarded as a sell-out

[gwh11]

Rudy introduced the AMI Favre Wildcard jersey to the thread, so...

Please take a look at the attached pictures. They are
from the '03 Seahawks-Pack playoff game.

Compare where the NFL shield is sewn on the front
collar. It's lower on the AMI jersey.

Compare the amount of space between the top of the
nameplate on the back and the lowest part of the
collar striping. There's more space on the AMI jersey.
That's because the jersey is larger than a size 52.

Compare where the front number 4 is located in
relation to the tip of the NFL shield on the collar.
Different location on the AMI jersey.

Also, Favre didn't change jerseys at halftime. I've
included a photo of him putting a hat on the sidelines
as the 3rd quarter starts. His jersey is dirty.

Guy

[indyred]

Also, on AMI Favre jersey. Anyone else think the jersey that Favre is holding in the picture is different than the one in the auction? I wonder who won that jersey for almost 13 large. Would love to see a close up of the photo of Favre with jersey.

[mvandor]

The saddest part of this story is that Favre provides the best provenance out there, not much more you can ask for, personal numbered holograms, signature, even a pic holding the item. If you can't trust that, the lesson is you can't trust ANYTHING.

[kingjammy24]

Also, on AMI Favre jersey. Anyone else think the jersey that Favre is holding in the picture is different than the one in the auction? I wonder who won that jersey for almost 13 large. Would love to see a close up of the photo of Favre with jersey.

no. i think the jersey that favre is holding in the photo is undoubtedly the same one sold by AMI. first, a side by side comparison:

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/23/favre2ax3.jpg

secondly, i superimposed the AMI favre onto the jersey that favre is holding in the photo. all of the inscriptions matched their locations perfectly:

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/2500/favre1mf1.jpg

you couldn't recreate those inscriptions without laying down a grid and meticulously measuring all of the distances.

here's a photo of favre during the game 01/04/04 game that the jersey is purported to be from. as guy noted, the NFL shield is in a different location. in the game photo, the "right point" of the shield hits the first black line on the neckline. on AMI's jersey, the right point of the shield hits the second black line on the neckline. the AMI shield is lower.

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/6973/favre3fh2.jpg

1. the jersey sold by AMI is the exact same jersey being held by favre in the photo.

2. the jersey held by favre in the photo shows the specific game that favre and associates say the jersey was used in.

3. the jersey wasn't used in that game.

4. favre therefore signed a bad jersey.

i don't see how radtke could possibly be involved in favre signing bad jerseys. i don't see how this could involve some dastardly ring of counterfeiters. the jersey is bad BEFORE the hologram is even placed on it. good luck to thomason in finding the culprits.

rudy.

[indyred]

Nice work Kingjammy

Seeing side by side it is the exact jersey Favre is holding. Don't a few members here own Favre game used jerseys. Would be cool to see them posted in here and how they obtained them. I bet a follow up article is in the works just with info on this thread. Anyone else got old auctions with Favre jerseys in them with his COA to look at.

[kingjammy24]

just wanted to add..

if favre wanted to deceive folks, then i'd think he'd just get red batty to order boxes of game-issued shirts, all perfectly to spec. as guy mentioned, these were deliberately altered (and poorly altered at that). i don't see favre sitting there, ordering 54/56 jerseys and then resewing size tags or handcutting numbers. favre could get as many of his game-issued shirts as he pleased. both favre and batty would have access to perfect, game-issued shirts straight from the factory. even bus cook, as favre's official agent, might have access. would thomason have such direct access to the factory to be able to order as many as he liked all by himself?

rudy.

[allstarsplus]

Rudy - Awesome job!!!! By that proof alone it should clear Rick Radtke. So the Thomason investigation will be interesting as where the finger gets pointed or whether or not it just gets swept under the rug.

On a different Favre subject, I got an email from the Jets this morning. Now you can buy a red Jets #4 Brett Favre practice jersey (of course un-used). You can see how easy it is to get something that may look right to the novice that can be purchased for $80 in a size XL and re-sold for a lot more. Who would have thought you could get practice jerseys with the NFL shield.

http://www.jetsshop.com/jets/product.php?productid=18313&cat=351&page=1

15757

[allstarsplus]

This just shows how easy it is to get a Favre jersey. They have the Throwbacks that Brett wore this year when he set his career personal best in TD's. All that is missing is a strip tag in the neck area!


http://www.jetsshop.com/jets/images/T/02-127T.jpg Titans #4 Favre Authentic Jersey

Get the authentic jersey as worn on the field by the New York Jets! 100% nylon pro-Brite mesh body with polyester dazzle yoke and sleeves. Tackle twill name and numbers.

See Detailed Image Below Detailshttp://www.jetsshop.com/jets/skin1/images/spacer.gif SKU02-171-52Weight1.00 lbsPrice:$220.00 Options http://www.jetsshop.com/jets/skin1/images/spacer.gif X-Large (52)-(Will Ship 12/15/2008)

[lund6771]

Nice work Kingjammy

Seeing side by side it is the exact jersey Favre is holding. Don't a few members here own Favre game used jerseys. Would be cool to see them posted in here and how they obtained them. I bet a follow up article is in the works just with info on this thread. Anyone else got old auctions with Favre jerseys in them with his COA to look at.


I'll post mine later...but I did go back and match it right after I got mine and it was perfectly video matched to a specific repair and blood stains to multiple games in 04....

One this is for sure...there diffinitely are a lot of good ones out there as well...I think that it would be fair of Radtke to go back to every person he sold one to, explain to them the situation, and do some serious research on each item with video matches....

Rick, if you're reading this, I can get you a video copy of every game that Favre played in Green Bay for reference...

Thomason is gonna have some serious explaining to do...

In the mean time, Radtke ponied up his refund....I wonder if AMI, who I would assume is out for the best interest in their customers, will be contacting the winner of the playoff jersey to tell them that there is a problem...

Maybe Dave O'Brien can get Victors or kika's comments on this thread

[kingjammy24]

Thomason is gonna have some serious explaining to do...

yes. thomason will have to answer to the thomason-headed task force and the folks he's hired. maybe he'll interrogate himself. in all seriousness, you'd need an impartial body with some real authority such as a state or federal agency.

i contacted michael o'keeffe of the ny daily news this morning to see if he intends on picking up the story.

as for AMI contacting the winner of their favre jersey, i'm sure they'll get right on that. right after they remove the '86 canseco shirt and '98 canseco helmet in their current auction.

rudy.

[mvandor]

There's alot of room for speculation but you have to start looking at Thomason first. Of course Brett could get identical game issued jerseys, and he hardly needs the small change anyway. It looks as though he's just trying to help a buddy here, and doubtful he even pays too much attention to the detail of the jerseys as he signs them. The fraud appears to be occurring near the source though as it certainly appears Brett has been signing and being photographed with bad product, presumably because he trusts what's put in front of him.

As in politics, just follow the $. Who besides Thomason benefits from the income from selling wholesale to Radtke, and then who from that group has chain of custody access.

An honest investigation could likely get to the truth in 72 hours.

[indyred]

Here is an interesting old thread dealing with Favre fraud autograph stuff.


http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=3971&page=2&highlight=Favre+fake+autograph

[otismalibu]

Is it wrong to be amused by people who spend thousands of dollars on 'game used' items, without doing any research on the piece/s?

http://bp0.blogger.com/_dgZA05rulE4/R8oJoI4YcNI/AAAAAAAAAAk/fgQTN_bV8e4/s200/israel-125year-old-man-laughing.jpg

[mvandor]

Is it wrong to be amused by people who spend thousands of dollars on 'game used' items, without doing any research on the piece/s?

http://bp0.blogger.com/_dgZA05rulE4/R8oJoI4YcNI/AAAAAAAAAAk/fgQTN_bV8e4/s200/israel-125year-old-man-laughing.jpg

In this case probably. Provenance on these items was about as solid as one could ask for I would think.

[otismalibu]

Provenance on these items was about as solid as one could ask for I would think.

NO SUCH THING!

I don't care if the player says it's good, the equipment guy says it's good, the bearded man in sandals says it's good...

Where's that Namath helmet thread.

[allstarsplus]

There's alot of room for speculation but you have to start looking at Thomason first. Of course Brett could get identical game issued jerseys, and he hardly needs the small change anyway. It looks as though he's just trying to help a buddy here, and doubtful he even pays too much attention to the detail of the jerseys as he signs them. The fraud appears to be occurring near the source though as it certainly appears Brett has been signing and being photographed with bad product, presumably because he trusts what's put in front of him.

As in politics, just follow the $. Who besides Thomason benefits from the income from selling wholesale to Radtke, and then who from that group has chain of custody access.

An honest investigation could likely get to the truth in 72 hours.

MVANDOR - The article calls in question that some of these aren't even the same size so it doesn't appear that they are even identical game issued jerseys.

We haven't covered this yet. Brett wears sometimes 2 jerseys a game and clearly the customers that didn't get in some circumstances the real jersey----so who has this stash of real gamers?

Luckily lund6771 says his Favre is a match so there is hope that most are real.


I think that it would be fair of Radtke to go back to every person he sold one to, explain to them the situation, and do some serious research on each item with video matches....


I am sure Rick's phone is already ringing off the hook from everyone who has ever bought any Favre item. A shame to be put in the middle over something you had no control over.

Thanks to Rudy's work he has proven to me that the problem's occurred prior to receipt by Rick Radtke so hopefully Thomason is reading this and he can concentrate on how the jerseys came off of Brett Favre in the locker room to the point they were shipped to Rick Radtke.

[mvandor]

MVANDOR - The article calls in question that some of these aren't even the same size so it doesn't appear that they are even identical game issued jerseys.

I understand. After reading everything it certainly appears there were no accidents here but that someone was feeding Brett carefully prepared fakes to sign, mixed in with the legit stuff. Was this done to ferret out a few free jerseys for someone's own collection? Or to scam enough to send a few kids to college?

[aeneas01]

another favre jersey (unsigned) currently listed at grey flannel...

http://www.greyflannelauctions.com/LotDetail3.aspx?lotid=19198

...

[mvandor]

another favre jersey (unsigned) currently listed at grey flannel...

http://www.greyflannelauctions.com/LotDetail3.aspx?lotid=19198

...

Hmm, certainly seems like Favre has been accounting for his jerseys through Thomason further back than 2007. How'd this one, unsigned and sans paperwork, get outside the system I have to ask?

[lund6771]

Hmm, certainly seems like Favre has been accounting for his jerseys through Thomason further back than 2007. How'd this one, unsigned and sans paperwork, get outside the system I have to ask?


Hardly any of their newer football jerseys have any provenance...

Adrian Peterson, Favre, etc have their own deals going....how could they possibly sell them without any provenance?...Oh, the back door story?...sure...that's what some of these auction guys will be getting themselves when they get nailed selling this trash...don't bend over for the soap!!

Players like Tom Brady are IMPOSSIBLE to get, along with Steelers equipment....yet they are sold all the time

Waaaaaaaaayyyyy to much garbage out there...

anyways I'm starting to get off topic....

[gwh11]

It's worth reiterating that not every Favre jersey w/the hologram, paperwork, etc. is bogus. The legitimate Favre jersey I used as a comparison in the photos I took for the article came with a letter and picture, for example. However, from what I am aware of, it does seem as if the majority are fakes.

What I found interesting is how these bogus jerseys all had unique "problems". For example, I examined another Favre jersey similar to the 2004 discussed in the article. This was after Chris had nearly finished the piece. This jersey had a contrived 02-52 year/size tag in the collar, and, of course, was larger than a 52. It was hemmed the same way, but the sleeve construction was correct. The sleeves on the '04 were constructed and sewn on much differently than what you would expect to find on a legitimate jersey.

Guy

[mvandor]

However, from what I am aware of, it does seem as if the majority are fakes.

Do I understand you correctly, that your opinion is that a majority of Favre GU jerseys with Favre paperwork are fake? That's a pretty significant statement.

[RKGIBSON]

I would like to say that I have always found Radke a good and decent guy to deal with.

I want to offer up my Favre jersey for some reference point and so we can see if the paperwork is consistant. First, pictures of my jersey and a game photo. I photo matched it before I bought it.

Then the watermark on the paperwork. Is it the same on the fraudulent jerseys? The letters came from Radke so I would guess all in this era should have the same paper.

It is hard to see in the picture but written in the collar with a black marker is CTB. Is this on any other jerseys?

Roger

[RKGIBSON]

CJB in the collar, SORRY, we need to be able to edit.

Roger

[gwh11]

Roger: Could the "B" be a sloppy "R"? It would make more sense, since your jersey was worn in games against Chicago, the Jaguars and the Rams.

Mvandor: Unfortunately, at this point, yes, I believe the majority of these jerseys w/letters are fakes. Again, this is from what I've seen. There certainly could be the possibility that a larger number of good ones are secure in collections, and never resold or given exposure to other collectors. I hope that's the case, but I'd like to see evidence of that.

-Guy

[lund6771]

Roger: Could the "B" be a sloppy "R"? It would make more sense, since your jersey was worn in games against Chicago, the Jaguars and the Rams.

Mvandor: Unfortunately, at this point, yes, I believe the majority of these jerseys w/letters are fakes. Again, this is from what I've seen. There certainly could be the possibility that a larger number of good ones are secure in collections, and never resold or given exposure to other collectors. I hope that's the case, but I'd like to see evidence of that.

-Guy


Guy...

whats your guess on the percentage that are bad out there?

That would really be bad for the hobby if we're talking a high percentage

[lund6771]

Here is my Favre from 2004...sorry for the bad pics...there is one is 100% a good one


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http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/images/icons/icon1.gif Re: Show Me your NFL stuff
here is my favorite jersey that is photo/video matched to multiple games in 2004...this has to be one of the best Favre jerseys out there...hopefully these pics will come through
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http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 12-02-2007, 07:42 AM
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http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/images/icons/icon1.gif Re: Show Me your NFL stuff
the last pic in the previous post shows a repair on the front, right next to the #4...also notice the mark under the 4 on the left sleeve

http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/51898083.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1939847EC77F5F8D1CEF8FE0A58EC2719DB 4E9C89C783688B46
Attached Imageshttp://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=9178&stc=1&d=1196580491

[lund6771]

sorry for the multiple posts, but look at the purple line on the #4 on the left sleeve...perfect match

The repair to the right of the 4 on front is a no brainer


http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/51898083.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1939847EC77F5F8D1CEF8FE0A58EC2719DB 4E9C89C783688B46

[otismalibu]

That can't be a photo match.

There are no red circles and the picture isn't blurry enough.

[otismalibu]

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb110/otismalibu/favre.jpg

[mattmueller]

One thing to note is the various places Favre is in the photos of him signing/holding the jerseys. I have these photos with him sitting in his truck (when its is raining), standing in what appears to be a golf course, sitting in a garage, and the AMI one looks like he is standing in the doorway of a garage. These don't seem to be situations where he really sat down and fully examined the jersey to make sure it was game used. Would those not seem to indicate he was handed a jersey, told this is from the "xx" game, he signs it, puts a hologram on it and he is done with it?

[lund6771]

in he picture that Brett is with my jersey, he is holding it up in a bar or restaurant

I started thinking more about what the actual "chain" could be...

Who is putting the jerseys in front of Brett to sign?....if it is Thomason, how and where would he get them?...it wouldn't make any sence that he received the real ones from Brett, and than at a later date get back together with Brett to have him sign them plus bad ones?..why wouldn't Brett sign them BEFORE they got to Thomasons hands?...maybe Brett had a pile of them, would hook up with Thomason every couple of months, and sign them all in one sitting but made a few mistakes?....that theory is wrong as well, because as Rudy pointed out, why wouldn't they all be team issued instead being terribly fake?

If they were signed before they got to Thomason, than there is obviously someone else involved with making up these fakes...Thomason is a friend of Brett's and maybe he's just making some cash on the flip to Radtke?

Lots if if's, and's, or but's here.....but at least the chain is short and my guess is that it would n't take long to figure out who dun it

[kingjammy24]

I started thinking more about what the actual "chain" could be...

Who is putting the jerseys in front of Brett to sign?....if it is Thomason, how and where would he get them?...it wouldn't make any sence that he received the real ones from Brett, and than at a later date get back together with Brett to have him sign them plus bad ones?..why wouldn't Brett sign them BEFORE they got to Thomasons hands?...maybe Brett had a pile of them, would hook up with Thomason every couple of months, and sign them all in one sitting but made a few mistakes?....that theory is wrong as well, because as Rudy pointed out, why wouldn't they all be team issued instead being terribly fake?

If they were signed before they got to Thomason, than there is obviously someone else involved with making up these fakes...Thomason is a friend of Brett's and maybe he's just making some cash on the flip to Radtke?

Lots if if's, and's, or but's here.....but at least the chain is short and my guess is that it would n't take long to figure out who dun it

here are my opinions:

these aren't mistakes because the shirts themselves have been visibly doctored. red batty and brett favre could order as many perfectly-to-spec, game-issued shirts as they liked straight from the manufacturer. neither would have any need to spend the time and effort in doctoring shirts. they both have unlimited access to as much of the real stuff as they want.

as for the chain, the article quoted bus cook, favre's agent, saying that thomason handled all of favre's memorabilia. awhile back, thomason got together with the authorities and pursued some folks who were forging favre's signature. thomason, by most accounts, seems to be the exclusive gatekeeper to favre in terms of memorabilia. for various reasons, i'm sure he likes to keep it that way. from looking at various photos, it seems to me that these jerseys (both legit and fraudulent) seem to be have been washed so let's start from the beginning. favre enters the locker room and suits up for the game. the jersey he puts on is supplied by red batty and is a proper-spec, favre shirt with proper sizing, customizations, lettering, stitching, etc. favre then goes out and plays the game and returns to the locker room at the end. he's sweaty and exhausted and most likely wants to change and go home. i don't think favre is having the jersey washed immediately as he enters the locker room. it'd be a hassle to either wait around the entire time it's being washed and dried or to have to return to the stadium to retrieve it. i'd guess that the equipment staff need to pack everything up for the trip out and they pack favre's items along with the rest of the teams'. i'm guessing favre's post game routine in terms of his uniform and him getting out of the stadium is much the same as the rest of the teams. they've all got to catch the same bus and the same flight out and the equipment staff likely has their well-established procedures for packing everything up. after a game ends, i'm unsure if favre personally takes the jersey with him or if its just packed up with all of the teams other jerseys. if it's the former, then favre could then deliver the jersey to thomason who'd then have the jersey washed and signed, etc. if it's the latter, then favre would have to re-connect with the packers staff to get his jersey back after they'd washed it. i don't think the packers staff is pulling a fast one here and giving brett bad jerseys. as the scd article states, the packers have conducted their own investigation and come up empty and, unlike some others, i don't believe they have much of a bias. i don't think the packers would hesitate or care in firing a staff member found to be stealing favre's jerseys and giving him doctored ones.

favre can't sign the jersey before he gives it to thomason because it needs to be washed. plus i don't think favre wants the responsibility and hassle of personally having to record all of the details of each game with each specific jersey. i imagine that during the season favre's life is pretty hectic. if he's appointed thomason to take care of all of the logistics of his memorabilia, then he probably leaves all of the logistics and details to thomason including recording the games, opponents, scores, etc that each jersey was used in. after a game, i don't think favre is running back to the locker room and writing down the score and opponent and date on a little notepad and quickly washing his jersey so he can sign it asap, nor do i think he travels around with a package of holograms that he quickly applies after each game. my guess is that favre wants to make this entire process as practical and easy as possible for himself so he just leaves it all up to thomason. so either favre hands thomason a dirty jersey or a clean one. at some point in the future, thomason and favre meet to sign each jersey with thomason (or a representative) feeding favre the info to be signed on each shirt. i'm guessing it's thomason's group who types out the letters and applies the hologram. as you can see in the photo of brett holding up the jersey, he's signed it all and it still doesn't have a hologram.
my guess is favre delivers the jerseys to thomason and they meet at a later date and favre signs whatever he's told to on each shirt and signs each letter, one after the other, and completely trusts that the person laying the jerseys in front of him is being honest. in order for favre to sign the jerseys prior to all of this, it'd mean he'd have to have them washed first and he'd have to record the details of each game and personally coordinate which records went with each jersey. why bother with all of that when you've got your friend and memorabilia agent to take care of it all for you?

rudy.

[lund6771]

Rudy, from what I understand, the holograms are put on later by Radtke Sports...The letters are also made up by Radtke, and then Favre signs them...once the jersey, letter, and picture were all in Radtke's possession than the holograms were put on

I'm sure that Rick thought that everything was fake-proof until it left HIS hands, and no way before

[kingjammy24]

Rudy, from what I understand, the holograms are put on later by Radtke Sports...The letters are also made up by Radtke, and then Favre signs them...once the jersey, letter, and picture were all in Radtke's possession than the holograms were put on

I'm sure that Rick thought that everything was fake-proof until it left HIS hands, and no way before

was radtke the exclusive seller of these favre shirts? that is, did thomason distribute/sell them to others other than rick radtke?

somethings not jiving here. the letters state the game, opponent, date, and score. how could radtke know what to type on the letters before he got the jersey? favre gives the jersey to thomason. thomason gives the jersey to radtke. did thomason then tell radtke the specifics of when each jersey was worn? so favre signed the jerseys first, then gave them to thomason who in turn gave them to radtke. radtke then typed up the letter and the letter than went all the way back to favre, he signed it, and then went all the way back to radtke? jesus what a process. why is radtke producing letters "from the desk of brett favre"? radtke has posted on this forum. i think it'd be great if he could come on and discuss some of the specifics of how all of this worked.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

here's what dave o'brien said a year ago about favre's game-used shirts:

"The game used items are mailed to Rick after games...thus his signings and game used items are completely isolated from one another...so there is no chance that Bret has 200 pro-cuts sitting in front of him, and all of a sudden he decides that he's going to sign one as game used?...Without taking a picture and writing a letter?...Not Likely"

if dave is correct, imagine it's thomason then who mailed them to rick? rick must've received them already signed them. sort of bizarre for rick to make up the letters, after he received the jersey and then ship the letters back out to brett to sign and then get them back. why not just have thomason have favre sign the letters as he signs each jersey? loopy.

radtke sports has its own unique hologram. these favre shirts come with a unique favre hologram. you're saying radtke applied those favre holograms?

to an extent, it's not terribly relevant as the real meat is in the fact that radtke was receiving jerseys directly from favre/thomason that were already signed and the signed jerseys themselves (even without the corresponding hologram and letter) were already bad. the real question in this entire mess is who was putting bad jerseys in front of brett to sign?

rudy.

[mvandor]

Certainly Thomason is the principal suspect outa the gate, but he may have had others working for him to handle some of the actual processing. Given the specificity of the info placed on most of these jerseys during Favre's signings, it's tough to believe a bunch were added in. It would be hard to explain to Brett how 32 regular season jerseys (assuming he does change at the half) suddenly become 60 requiring his signature. Therefore, it seems more likely to me some legit ones were replaced with bogus ones before the signings, with the purpose being either to keep a few for someone's personal collection at a very low cost, or to funnel them to auction houses for additional income.

I suspect the auction houses know their sources of Favre GU jerseys, and you have to wonder if they haven't put 2+2 together themselves and figured this out already, if they're aware of the article.

[lund6771]

to an extent, it's not terribly relevant as the real meat is in the fact that radtke was receiving jerseys directly from favre/thomason that were already signed and the signed jerseys themselves (even without the corresponding hologram and letter) were already bad. the real question in this entire mess is who was putting bad jerseys in front of brett to sign?

rudy.

exactly

[aeneas01]

i don't see why favre would even bother to get involved in the jersey logistics - i would think he would have simply put his buddy thomason in touch with batty (or the like) and have them work out the details. for example, after a game favre's shirt would be collected along with the rest game used jerseys, laundered and then put aside with a laundry note detailing the game info. perhaps several would accumulate before they were either shipped to thomason or he swung by to pick them up (i believe he is a local).

at this point thomason would then arrange to have the jerseys signed by favre, snap some photos and then forward the jerseys and photos to radtke. radke, who has been furnished with an inventory of favre letterhead and holograms (from thomason), finishes the job by typing out the letter and applying the holograms.

apparently thomason is involved in a website (may be the owner) called fan4ever (fan4ever.com) which sells signed favre memorabilia - these items include holograms. thomason is also involved in favre's official wesite (officialbrettfavre.com). more info can be found here: http://www.wisc.edu/licensing/licensee_list.pdf

i called fan4ever and was told that they believed thomason (or fan4ever) had furnished radtke with holograms and favre letterhead which he would apply to favre items obtained directly from thomason. it appears that authentic favre items are available only through fan4ever and radtke - and that the merchandise is controled by thomason through fan4ever. both radtke and fan4ever offer favre signed reebok jerseys with the same type of holograms.

so where does that leave us?

here's an old guu thread that discussed the investigation thomason mentioned in the nerat article:
https://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/archive/index.php/t-3971.html

here's an old cached link to a favre signed gamer offered at radtke's website:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.radtkesports.com/images/Game%2520Used/GUFAVRERAIDERS_medium.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.radtkesports.com/product_info.php/products_id/2433&h=190&w=250&sz=13&hl=en&start=21&usg=__KS2IImKFBzBvU-GWTKHKgysW15o=&tbnid=Zv_Cg9fIPTRPgM:&tbnh=84&tbnw=111&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgame%2Bused%2Bfavre%2Bjersey%26start% 3D20%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfi refox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN

...

[kingjammy24]

at this point thomason would then arrange to have the jerseys signed by favre, snap some photos and then forward the jerseys and photos to radtke. radke, who has been furnished with an inventory of favre letterhead and holograms (from thomason), finishes the job by typing out the letter and applying the holograms....

at what point would favre then sign the typed out letters? thomason sends radtke blank letterhead, radtke types out all the letters, radtke then mails the letters back to thomason who has favre sign them, and thomason then mails them all back again to radtke? OR are we possibly talking about thomason sending blank letters that have already been signed by favre en masse? is favre just signing blank letterhead here?

rudy.

[aeneas01]

OR are we possibly talking about thomason sending blank letters that have already been signed by favre en masse? is favre just signing blank letterhead here?

seems likely, as unsettling as that may sound. and the photos of favre holding the jerseys without holograms seems to support radtke having a hologram inventory....

...

[allstarsplus]

here are my opinions:

1) these aren't mistakes because the shirts themselves have been visibly doctored. red batty and brett favre could order as many perfectly-to-spec, game-issued shirts as they liked straight from the manufacturer. neither would have any need to spend the time and effort in doctoring shirts. they both have unlimited access to as much of the real stuff as they want.

2) as for the chain, the article quoted bus cook, favre's agent, saying that thomason handled all of favre's memorabilia.

3) favre can't sign the jersey before he gives it to thomason because it needs to be washed. rudy.

I think you are right on Point #1 as that makes good sense that perfect dupes (if they couldn't be photomatched) would have the excuse that an honest mistake was made that they just got the wrong game

Good point on #2

On point #3, are all the jerseys washed at some point after these games?

[RKGIBSON]

[quote=gwh11;106854]Roger: Could the "B" be a sloppy "R"? It would make more sense, since your jersey was worn in games against Chicago, the Jaguars and the Rams.


Guy,
It is possible. I always thought it was the one worn in the Vikings game also. The 2 games where Favre wore white where my jersey was not worn was, vs the Raiders 8/31/01 and vs the Giants 1/6/02. The tail did not have the same hem on the tail. Mine is cut about 2" longer and the side split shows, photo attached. Also are photos of the autograph and hologram.

I would like to know how the jerseys got out of the Packers facility.

Roger

[gridman80]

[quote=gwh11;106854]Roger: Could the "B" be a sloppy "R"? It would make more sense, since your jersey was worn in games against Chicago, the Jaguars and the Rams.


Guy,
It is possible. I always thought it was the one worn in the Vikings game also. The 2 games where Favre wore white where my jersey was not worn was, vs the Raiders 8/31/01 and vs the Giants 1/6/02. The tail did not have the same hem on the tail. Mine is cut about 2" longer and the side split shows, photo attached. Also are photos of the autograph and hologram.

I would like to know how the jerseys got out of the Packers facility.

Roger

I bought two Favre jerseys from Rick about 8 years ago a green that I subsequently photomatched to an away game against the Bucs and a 1994 white Throwback that turned out to be a highly questionable piece....I did speak to Chris off the record about it....Today in our hobby, no matter who the source -a contemporary star piece must be photomatched...Live and learn for me... Roger, I sent you an email reply to our Jets discussion partner....thanks

[kingjammy24]

dave grob posted about this issue over on the mears website:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.mearsonline.com/news/newsDetail.asp?id=561

Problematic Brett Favre Jerseys by Dave Grob

Chris Nerat recently authored a piece for Sports Collectors Digest (SCD) that I found to be both hard hitting and well researched, in my opinion quite a departure from what I have been accustomed to seeing in SCD. The topic was on problematic Brett Favre jerseys on the market. The story has certainly garnered a lot of attention both inside and outside the hobby. I wish I could report that we were surprised at all of this, but sad to say I am not. In our Bat and Jersey Census, available to MEARS Members, we have over a half dozen examples of problematic Favre jerseys that were evaluated between May of 2006 and March of 2008, with the majority having been evaluated in 2006 and 2007.

Of those found to be problematic, roughly 43% display an autograph with a “game used” inscription. I point this for a number of reasons. First to shed light on a problem that we feel has existed in the hobby for some time and hopefully has been noticed by MEARS Members. Secondly to remind folks that simply having a player sign a jersey as “game used” or “game worn” is not an automatic qualifier as provenance or points on our grading scale.

In order to help others see what we have seen with respect to problematic Favre jerseys over the years, now that is seems to have any number of peoples attention, these are the jerseys I have referred to. I have provided the Certification or hologram number since we sometimes see MEARS evaluated products that, while the hologram is present, the worksheet or final Letter of Opinion has “become lost” for some reason.

Once again, hats off to Chris Nerat as well as MEARS contributor Guy Hankel for a job well done.

Problematic Favre Jerseys

1993 Home Jersey

Cert # 306330: MEARS is unable to grade this jersey due to the following inconsistencies: 1) Lack of wear; 2) game photos and footage show Favre wearing jerseys with NOB sized nameplates, not shoulder-to-shoulder nameplates as this jersey has.

1993 Road Jersey

Cert #100012: Numbers were applied via applique by the Packers in 1993, not single tackle twill as on this jersey. Manufacturer tag is not present on left front tail. Year tag (box) also missing from left front tail. Swatch tag in neck font not consistent with exemplars. Evidence of removal of retail size tag in neck.

NOTE: Autographed “93 Game Used”

1995 Home Jersey

Cert #100011: Incorrect font on back number. Incorrect yoke sheen. Missing manufacturer tag on front tail. Missing "Ripon Athletic" flag tag on inside seam. Swatch tag in neck font not consistent with exemplars. Evidence of removal of retail size tag in neck.

NOTE: Autographed “1995 MVP Game Used”

1996 Home Jersey

Cert #100009: Size does not match tagged size. Missing manufacturer tag on tail. Missing "Ripon Athletic" flag tag on inside seam. Swatch tag in neck font not consistent with exemplars. Evidence of removal of retail size tag in neck.

1996 Home Jersey

Cert #100010: Size does not match tagged size. Missing size flag tag on manufacturer tag. Missing "Ripon Athletic" flag tag on inside seam. Swatch tag in neck font not consistent with exemplars. Evidence of removal of retail size tag in neck.

NOTE: Autographed “96 Game Used”

1996 Road Jersey

Cert #309340: This jersey was a retail version that has had the retail tag removed from the neck. The outline of the removed tag is still visible upon inspection on a light table. The '96' box year tag found on the tail of this jersey should be in the collar. A size flag tag should be present on the right side of the Starter manufacturer's tag on the tail. The font used for the letter 'R' in Favre has the incorrect style of font for 1996 Packers jerseys.

2000 Home Jersey

Cert #305694: MEARS is unable to authenticate this jersey due to the following inconsistencies: 1) simulated, inconsistent wear -- satin fabric exhibits wear, mesh fabric does not; 2) sleeve cut not consistent with exemplars.

Dave Grob

For questions or comments on this article, please feel to drop me a line at DaveGrob1@aol.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------

"Secondly to remind folks that simply having a player sign a jersey as “game used” or “game worn” is not an automatic qualifier as provenance or points on our grading scale."

from what i've seen, if a post-87 jersey was an A5 and it had a "game worn/used" inscription from the athlete, it automatically got bumped up to an A10 because of the "provenance". that said, i also remember d. grob once that saying perhaps mears should start being more discerning or subjective with the specific athlete who wrote the "game used" inscription as some athletes will blindly write it on anything placed in front of them while others are more discerning.

rudy.

[lund6771]

something that strikes odd to me now, is why are there LOA's on jerseys from the early to mid 90's?

when I've seen the 94 Throwback, a 1993 Jersey, etc..., it led me to believe that these might be coming from Favre's own collection since the letter is being written around 10 some years later...and there is no way that his stuff would have been found in some corner of the equipment room 10 years later

I remember in the mid 90's Gray Flannel bought a ton of Packers stuff right from the team...cleaned them out

but now this smells like GREED....obviously these items wern't in Brett's collection...anyone know what Thomason does for a living?...other than being Brett's buddy?....if this guy is making 30K a year, divorced, and struggleing to make his next rent/mortgage payment, then the writing would be on the wall to me

[kingjammy24]

something that strikes odd to me now, is why are there LOA's on jerseys from the early to mid 90's?

when I've seen the 94 Throwback, a 1993 Jersey, etc..., it led me to believe that these might be coming from Favre's own collection since the letter is being written around 10 some years later...and there is no way that his stuff would have been found in some corner of the equipment room 10 years later

I remember in the mid 90's Gray Flannel bought a ton of Packers stuff right from the team...cleaned them out

but now this smells like GREED....obviously these items wern't in Brett's collection...anyone know what Thomason does for a living?...other than being Brett's buddy?....if this guy is making 30K a year, divorced, and struggleing to make his next rent/mortgage payment, then the writing would be on the wall to me

1. don't forget that when the jays and yankees finally opened their vaults, they had apparently been storing 20+ years worth of jerseys. when the yankees started selling their game-used shirts in 2005, there was stuff in yankee stadium from the 80s.

2. thomason: favre's personal pilot for the past 14 years. part owner of "Fan 4 Ever" in sun prairie, WI along with brian anderson. also partners with anderson in running the official Brett Favre Web site www.OfficialBrettFavre.com (http://www.OfficialBrettFavre.com). manages favre's autographed memorabilia sales and is involved in the Brett Favre Fourward Foundation, which contributes to community efforts in Wisconsin and Mississippi. "I've worked with Brett now since 1994, coordinating his travels back and forth from Mississippi" says thomason. seems to have connected with favre and built his entire career around him. he led the effort to clamp down on favre forged autographs a few years ago when the feds busted some favre forgery ring. as thomason said "brett signs very little and it comes through me". seems to be favre's sole memorabilia mouthpiece.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

here's thomason's store:

http://www.fan4ever.com/about_us/session_26eabb1e81ac/

seems the "cheaper" favre signed 8x10s run for about $175.

"Since 1992, Fan 4 Ever has had a close relationship with Brett Favre in distributing all of his memorabilia which continues still today. Fan 4 Ever is also proud to be the company behind Brett's own website; OfficialBrettFavre.com (http://www.officialbrettfavre.com/) "

"..with Brett Favre who's items include a certificate of authenticity, matching Brett Favre holograms, and a photo from the signing session."

if fan 4 ever is slapping favre holograms on their 8x10s then how do these holograms come from radtke, as has been suggested? seems to me they come from thomason. simply because they weren't on in the photos of favre holding the jersey doesn't mean they weren't slapped on the second after the photo was taken.

rudy.

[allstarsplus]

1. don't forget that when the jays and yankees finally opened their vaults, ....

there was stuff in yankee stadium from the 80s.



rudy.

Rudy, not to get off the subject, but the Yankees found items from the early 70's as I picked up some Ron Swoboda pants which I think were 1973. ;)

Back to the subject at hand, a lot of great info, but there seems to be a lot of what if's.

Hopefully Rick Radtke can clear up some up some of the gray areas and maybe Chris Nerat too.

If Thomason has nothing to hide, who wants to email him?
E-mail: fan4ever@verizon.net (fan4ever@verizon.net)

[mvandor]

thomason said "brett signs very little and it comes through me".

Sure kills the guy's credibility with me, about the only NFL player who signs more is Joe Montana. Ebay alone is FULL of what very much appears to be legit Favre signed items.

[lund6771]

1. don't forget that when the jays and yankees finally opened their vaults, they had apparently been storing 20+ years worth of jerseys. when the yankees started selling their game-used shirts in 2005, there was stuff in yankee stadium from the 80s.

2. thomason: favre's personal pilot for the past 14 years. part owner of "Fan 4 Ever" in sun prairie, WI along with brian anderson. also partners with anderson in running the official Brett Favre Web site www.OfficialBrettFavre.com (http://www.OfficialBrettFavre.com). manages favre's autographed memorabilia sales and is involved in the Brett Favre Fourward Foundation, which contributes to community efforts in Wisconsin and Mississippi. "I've worked with Brett now since 1994, coordinating his travels back and forth from Mississippi" says thomason. seems to have connected with favre and built his entire career around him. he led the effort to clamp down on favre forged autographs a few years ago when the feds busted some favre forgery ring. as thomason said "brett signs very little and it comes through me". seems to be favre's sole memorabilia mouthpiece.

rudy.


So it sounds like he's kind of Favre's personal assisstant?...Doesn't sound to lucrative to me?


Rudy, on the holograms....the holograms for my jersey, pic, and letter are still on a piece of wax paper that was sent to me with my letter, which I received seperately from my jersey....I'm sure this was a rare case, but that's what led me to believe that the holograms came from Radtke....there was nothing fishy going on, just saving time for me mailing the pic and jersey back and forth to just put the hologram on

[aeneas01]

Rudy, on the holograms....the holograms for my jersey, pic, and letter are still on a piece of wax paper that was sent to me with my letter, which I received seperately from my jersey....I'm sure this was a rare case, but that's what led me to believe that the holograms came from Radtke....there was nothing fishy going on, just saving time for me mailing the pic and jersey back and forth to just put the hologram on
from what i understand, per the conversation i had with fan4ever, the holograms in radtke's possession are old stock that are being phased out while the ones issued by fan4ever are the current holograms.

...

[hblakewolf]

UPDATE:

I phoned Chris Nerat at SCD this morning, however, I was told he is no longer employed with Krause Publications/SCD.

Just when we're led to believe that SCD may be "turning the page" in a positve direction, we now learn of this.

Possibly Chris can update this thread.

FYI

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@comcast.net

[mvandor]

UPDATE:

I phoned Chris Nerat at SCD this morning, however, I was told he is no longer employed with Krause Publications/SCD.

Just when we're led to believe that SCD may be "turning the page" in a positve direction, we now learn of this.

Possibly Chris can update this thread.

FYI

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@comcast.net

Guy does his first solid, legitimate reporting job in eons and suddenly he's G-O-N-E???

Dying to hear what happened as I was expecting and looking forward to a follow up story on this.

[commando]

It may be a short while before we really know what happened to Chris, but I have the odds-on-favorite guess:

A company/individual/organization was offended by the Favre article.

This company/individual/organization voiced their displeasure to Krause Publications via a lawyer in the form of a letter or other legal document.

Krause Publications is not interested in a lawsuit at the present time, and decided to offer Chris Nerat as the sacrificial lamb to hopefully end any threat of a lawsuit.


And here's a report of what will happen in the future, according to my crystal ball:

Sports Collectors Digest will continue to maintain its status as the leader of irrelevant hobby news -- until Coach's Corner goes away (the crystal ball's date is a little foggy on this one).

[kingjammy24]

until nerat confirms the reason for his departure, this is all just conjecture. that said, nerat's been oddly silent during this entire thing which seems atypical for him. perhaps he was threatened legally. not sure for what given that his piece wasn't libelous or defamatory. as well, nerat's piece is still up on the front page of SCD's website. if there were some sort of legal threat then you'd think his piece would've been taken down asap. his piece is still on there as is his column. not much point to a legal threat if the item which caused offense is allowed to remain on the website for all the world to see. for all we know, nerat's first good piece caused such a stir in the publishing world that he's now feverishly preparing his first article for the ny times or sports illustrated. perhaps he'd had enough of SCD and turned in his notice and is now swinging on a hammock in tahiti.

for the sake of discussion, if there was a legal threat against nerat and/or SCD you have to wonder where it could've possibly come from. that is, who felt the need to issue such a threat? i doubt it came from favre. favre's involved in too much money to possibly care about the extra $100k a year he was making from his jersey sales. who else would've been affected by the article? radtke and thomason. radtke's also been oddly silent during this huge debacle which has his name splattered all over. when an auction house was offering a vick gamer to which he had exclusive rights he wasted no time in coming here and posting all about it. not a single post at all from radtke to explain anything? perhaps thomason didn't enjoy his livelihood coming under scrutiny. anyway, as i said, its all conjecture. not much point to it. i was actually really looking forward to nerat continuing to dig deeper into this mess and coming out with a second article. chris, why not come on and post what happened so we can stop all of his conjecture?

rudy.

[allstarsplus]

not a single post at all from radtke to explain anything?

chris, why not come on and post what happened so we can stop all of his conjecture?

rudy.

I have personally spoken to Rick and hope he will post.

Let's also hope Chris posts. Hopefully Chris Nerat leaving is just a coincidence and is on to greener pastures as they say and this Favre investigative report was his swan song of great work to show everyone that he is an excellent journalist. The article was very impressive and I wish Chris luck in his future endeavors!

[otismalibu]

As a rule, I try not to piss off anyone who has a pilot's license and who routinely flies over Mississippi swamps.

[trsent]

Posted Friday on the MEARS forum:

Chris Nerat, Brett Favre, and his future

November 14 2008 at 11:41 AM Troy R. Kinunen (kinunent@hotmail.com) (Login Troyrkinunen (http://www.network54.com/Profile/Troyrkinunen))

I have spoken to Chris Nerat and he planning on issuing a formal response as early as this evening or possibly first thing Saturday morning.

He will address the issues of the Favre story, his reasons for leaving SCD, and his future.

Questions to Chris may be directed to our bulletin board by any individual providing a name and email address.

Respectfully,


Troy R. Kinunen
MEARS

[ironmanfan]

Isn't member "Harpt" a friend of Nerat? I wonder if he could chime in?

[harpt]

I am friends with Chris, but don't want to speak for him. I know that he is planning on responding soon.

I agree with the majority of posters here: This article was very well done, and I greatly look forward to whatever may come from it.

[kingjammy24]

"He will address the issues of the Favre story, his reasons for leaving SCD, and his future"

http://www.mearsonline.com/news/newsDetail.asp?id=562

this is what i woke up early for? truly, i hope that isn't the entirety of chris' response. to summarize his post: "troy's a cool guy who once helped me out on a retail jersey so i'm now working for them". not a single word about the favre story.

rudy.

[harpt]

Rudy

I don't think the Favre story has anything to do with why he left SCD for MEARS. The timing is just coincidental.

[kingjammy24]

Rudy

I don't think the Favre story has anything to do with why he left SCD for MEARS. The timing is just coincidental.

hey scott

well that's what many were wondering, whether the two were connected. at a minimum, couldn't chris have explicitly confirmed or denied that there was/wasn't a connection? are you saying that nerat will indeed follow-up with a response to the favre story, as troy k. wrote that he would?

the story generated more interest and attention than all of nerat's previous work combined. i'm hoping chris doesn't turn into a 1-hit wonder. he hasn't posted a single lick about any of the multitude of questions raised about one of the biggest stories to come out in years. no offense to him or mears, but his response was little more than a mears PR-marketing snoozefest. like a tim duncan interview. "i'm very excited to join this organization which i've respected for a long time and we're all very excited about the new and exciting products we've got planned blah blah blah". turn off the press-release bot and get to the good stuff already.

rudy.

[mvandor]

Bizarre. From columnist or editor at SCD (of course a horrible job for an employer that's one FBI sting on Coach's Corner from defunct) to doing WHAT for an authentication business? Don't get it unless MEARS is truly going into other things. And the timing is horrid, there's been SO much interest generated by his piece now you have to wonder if there will be a follow up...

[harpt]

I hear you. I will ask him about it and post back if I hear anything new.

My guess is that he will be posting more, but I really don't know. I am actually going to see him tonight because he's in town for the Packer game. I'll let you know...

[harpt]

I just talked with Chris. He's in the car and not by a computer, but he wants folks to understand that he's not disappearing from this, and he hopes to write more of this type of story in the future...including a follow-up to the Favre thing when/if new info comes out that warrants an update.

He is excited because he knows that he will have a lot more freedom to write these types of stories under Dave Grob than he had in previous positions.

He also said that when he does post things, he will be posting on the MEARS site.

Anyway...more is coming.

[fredgarvin]

Any of you who have purchased/obtained Favre gamers measured the back of the jersey as in the article? Is it consistant with th 19 1/2" measurement? It appears his jerseys were larger and more baggy in recent years (2006-07) than in the 90's? Is there an agreement or am I just seeing things? Thank you for your response.

[CollectGU]

Here's your answer:

http://www.mearsonline.com/news/newsDetail.asp?id=562

I suspect that this hiring will coincide with a MEARS announcement soon that they will be opening up an auction house which has been hinted at numerous times by Dave Grob in some of his articles written...

Regards,
Dave

[otismalibu]

Dave,

Can you post some election results too?

:D

[lund6771]

Any of you who have purchased/obtained Favre gamers measured the back of the jersey as in the article? Is it consistant with th 19 1/2" measurement? It appears his jerseys were larger and more baggy in recent years (2006-07) than in the 90's? Is there an agreement or am I just seeing things? Thank you for your response.



Mine is from 2004 and it is more like 19 1/4"

[trsent]

Here's your answer:

http://www.mearsonline.com/news/newsDetail.asp?id=562

I suspect that this hiring will coincide with a MEARS announcement soon that they will be opening up an auction house which has been hinted at numerous times by Dave Grob in some of his articles written...

Regards,
Dave

Dave, wouldn't it be nice to have a 2nd major auction house that works along the lines of the MEARS Auction House Policy?

[worldchamps]

November 19th......I just got the issue that this story is in the mail today. Great benefit of being a subscriber...maybe next week they will tell me who won the world series!

[trsent]

November 19th......I just got the issue that this story is in the mail today. Great benefit of being a subscriber...maybe next week they will tell me who won the world series!

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/history/postseason/mlb_ws.jsp?feature=recaps_index

[indyred]

So is this the first Brett Favre NY Jets game used jersey to hit NFL.com auctions. Already at 4 grand. Will be interesting if more of his jerseys get sold through the Jets on NFL.com. That seems where they move game used stuff. Here is a link to the auction.
http://www.nflauction.nfl.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=101102001&prmenbr=65664914&aunbr=101448711

maybe we will see the Titans throwback he used in the 6 td game hit the market someday.

[chakes89]

And that jersey is only from the first half of that game against the Patriots

Looks like the Jets had Favre switch jerseys during games so they would have a lot of them to sell

:eek:

[jhunt28]

This is definitely an interesting piece, and I fully expect more to be coming, just like the Dolphins keep pumping out the game worn Pennington's that seem to be going for about $1,500 each. I really think the first person to pull the trigger on this will set the market...but what are people's thoughts on owning a gamer from one of the best quarterbacks ever, but with the Jets? I would think given he had such an awful year, and what's more important, awful last 5 games of the season, that his performance for the Jets would diminish his game worn value. But then again, it could be the novelty of owning a Favre Jets gamer that makes it worth that much more? Although we know there will probably be, at a minimum, 32 of these floating around. And that doesn't even count the pre-season ones. I'm really surprised to see that this jersey has gotten so high, so quickly. Most of the time, bidders will hold their bids close to the vest, and come out in the last hour or so. That leads me to believe this could go off at an astromical price. Any thoughts on the value of his Jets vs Packers gamers??

[sonic]

So is this the first Brett Favre NY Jets game used jersey to hit NFL.com auctions. Already at 4 grand. Will be interesting if more of his jerseys get sold through the Jets on NFL.com. That seems where they move game used stuff. Here is a link to the auction.
http://www.nflauction.nfl.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=101102001&prmenbr=65664914&aunbr=101448711

maybe we will see the Titans throwback he used in the 6 td game hit the market someday.

I think that it's way cool that the Jets are auctioning off the jersey for charity.

Net proceeds from the auction will benefit the extensive work of the New York Jets Foundation. Every year, programs supported by the New York Jets touch the lives of countless young men and women in the New York tri-state area through programs that promote youth health, fitness, and education, particularly in disadvantaged communities. We strive to create new opportunities - whether by launching the first football team in an urban high school, providing additional after school instruction in an underperforming school district, or encouraging students to take advantage of a free and healthy school meal.

[indyred]

This is definitely an interesting piece, and I fully expect more to be coming, just like the Dolphins keep pumping out the game worn Pennington's that seem to be going for about $1,500 each. I really think the first person to pull the trigger on this will set the market...but what are people's thoughts on owning a gamer from one of the best quarterbacks ever, but with the Jets? I would think given he had such an awful year, and what's more important, awful last 5 games of the season, that his performance for the Jets would diminish his game worn value. But then again, it could be the novelty of owning a Favre Jets gamer that makes it worth that much more? Although we know there will probably be, at a minimum, 32 of these floating around. And that doesn't even count the pre-season ones. I'm really surprised to see that this jersey has gotten so high, so quickly. Most of the time, bidders will hold their bids close to the vest, and come out in the last hour or so. That leads me to believe this could go off at an astromical price. Any thoughts on the value of his Jets vs Packers gamers??

I wonder how many of his Jets jerseys will get auctioned off. I think the real interesting ones will be the titan throwbacks. They used them twice and Favre had his career high 6 td pass game in that jersey. Any hardcore Jets fans notice if he did in fact change jerseys at the half of every game? Might be worth researching that from video to see if he did. I think right now their will be a premium paid for his Jets jerseys. Might have some deep pocket Jets fans on the hunt for one and considering the source of NFL auctions people will overpay knowing they are getting it from that source.

[aeneas01]

i have to say that i just don't understand the appeal of game used items that have been intentionally manufactured and managed for the consumption of the collecting public. imo there is something so disingenuous about the whole thing, something akin to cheating, something that's steeped in greed.

the kicker is it's really ridiculous for me to even give a ratz arse about this given that i would never consider purchasing such an item. but that doesn't keep me from wondering how someone that purchased such an item couldn't help but feel an accomplice to something that's not quite on the up and up.

the classic mean joe greene coke commercial comes to mind - i wonder what sort of impact that commercial would have had if joe tossed the little tyke one of the 28 jerseys he wore that year, one of the 400 jerseys he had worn during his 13 year career?

should be interesting to watch this sort of thing catch on - before long players will changing shirts after every quarter.

...

[lund6771]

i have to say that i just don't understand the appeal of game used items that have been intentionally manufactured and managed for the consumption of the collecting public. imo there is something so disingenuous about the whole thing, something akin to cheating, something that's steeped in greed.

the kicker is it's really ridiculous for me to even give a ratz arse about this given that i would never consider purchasing such an item. but that doesn't keep me from wondering how someone that purchased such an item couldn't help but feel an accomplice to something that's not quite on the up and up.

the classic mean joe greene coke commercial comes to mind - i wonder what sort of impact that commercial would have had if joe tossed the little tyke one of the 28 jerseys he wore that year, one of the 400 jerseys he had worn during his 13 year career?

should be interesting to watch this sort of thing catch on - before long players will changing shirts after every quarter.

...


I know what you mean...a big part of collecting for me is the chase...but in this situation you know that its real...hopefully it doesn't get so commercial that the players are wearing a new jersey every quarter, inning, or half....but on the other hand, if they do wear them that often, look at how inexpensive they will become from just basic supply/demand theories

[mvandor]

BTW, really starting to doubt we'll ever see a follow up on the Favre jersey story, and if that never occurs, THAT would be a great disappointment.

[wideright]

BTW, really starting to doubt we'll ever see a follow up on the Favre jersey story, and if that never occurs, THAT would be a great disappointment.

I agree. I'm a card collector, really mainly autographs of one particular set, but I do have an interest in owning some game used items in the future. But after reading this article, it got me wondering just how "suckered" into owning supposed "game-used" sports cards we've become, and how legitimate these gu items really are. If the athletes themselves are getting it wrong, how are we to know unless we can pay an investigator to do in-depth research. Scary business.

[mvandor]

REALLY wondering if this story will ever be properly followed up on???

[trsent]

REALLY wondering if this story will ever be properly followed up on???

Did you contact SCD to see if they are planning on a follow-up?

[harpt]

I don't understand what the follow-up would be...has something new happened?

[kingjammy24]

I don't understand what the follow-up would be...has something new happened?

1) does favre know he was peddling bad shirts? if so, what are his thoughts?

2) how did bad shirts get in front of favre to sign in the first place?

3) what remedies is favre planning for owners of bad shirts with his loa?

nerat's article exposed bad shirts from favre's camp. would the logical follow-up to that be to suss out how it happened? thomasen was supposed to launch an investigation into how it happened. any updates as to that? the follow-up could be bigger than the original story.

rudy.

[harpt]

I couldn't agree more, and I would guess that Chris (or maybe more likely someone at SCD still) would definately write that story if they could get Favre to talk about it. Heck, for all I know they are trying. I doubt it is easy to get him on the phone though. Especially since there has been no pressure for Brett to "answer" about any of this.

My shock is in the total lack of national coverage this story received...especially since it came during a time when Favre controversy was at a premium. Just the suggestion that Favre may have had a hand in duping collectors...it is the stuff that I would have expected a Jay Glaser type to jump all over.

[mvandor]

1) does favre know he was peddling bad shirts? if so, what are his thoughts?

2) how did bad shirts get in front of favre to sign in the first place?

3) what remedies is favre planning for owners of bad shirts with his loa?

nerat's article exposed bad shirts from favre's camp. would the logical follow-up to that be to suss out how it happened? thomasen was supposed to launch an investigation into how it happened. any updates as to that? the follow-up could be bigger than the original story.

rudy.

What rudy said.

I don't much believe in coincidences, SCD went from years of fluff pieces to ONE meaningful article, then virtually immediately Nerat is gone. Certainly don't expect SCD to do squat as far as follow up. Not sure Nerat's current employers would want to dedicate his time to doing a follow up piece for them.

But this is a story that deserves an ending.

[harpt]

Agreed

[trsent]

What rudy said.

I don't much believe in coincidences, SCD went from years of fluff pieces to ONE meaningful article, then virtually immediately Nerat is gone. Certainly don't expect SCD to do squat as far as follow up. Not sure Nerat's current employers would want to dedicate his time to doing a follow up piece for them.

But this is a story that deserves an ending.

Maybe Chris now has time on his hands to create a follow-up. You should contact him.