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View Full Version : Larry Csonka Jersey Grey Flannel lot #528



Cubanfan
11-27-2008, 10:40 AM
After further review..........In my opinion the tagging is incorrect for a 1973 Jersey.The Russell tagging in '73 had the block letter R with Russell underneath.No script.Measured approximately 2.5" x 1.5". The newer tag as depicted in Grey Flannel is approximately 3.5"X2.0". The sleeve numbers even though hard to see do not appear to have the "full orange background".This jersey in my opinion is from the late 70's when Csonka came back for 1 year (1979).(I have a Csonka jersey which is a team issue that matches the tagging and #s on this one.There where a lot of team issued ones).Has anyone seen this jersey at previous auction? Looks familiar to me.Unfortunately I don't have access to some of the older catalogs.Happy Thanksgiving.

Carlos

Always looking for 60's, 70's Miami Dolphins

G1X
11-28-2008, 11:17 AM
Hello Carlos,

You are correct about the Russell tagging and full-orange "background". In studying other teams that used Russell, it appears that the "background" coloring discontinued in the mid-1970s (I narrowed it down to 1975 with one team I have researched).

For an example of what Carlos and I are referring to as "background" coloring, please observe the photo shown below. The #9 is from a 1975 Birmingham (WFL) jersey, the #0 is from a 1974 Birmingham Amercians WFL jersey. The "background" coloring was usually seen on enclosed numbers (0, 4, 6, 8, and 9).

I will make a separate post in a few minutes to show that Carlos is also correct about the tagging.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for Atlanta Falcons and WFL jerseys

G1X
11-28-2008, 12:22 PM
Carlos,

As promised in my previous post, here is information on Russell tagging (football jerseys). Russell was known as Russell Southern for many years. It is not uncommon to see older football jerseys with a Russell Southern tag. Photo #1 shows a Russell Southern tag (a little difficult to see as it is partially covered by the Jerry's Sports Shop tag. Regrettably, I cannot pinpoint the exact year that the Russell Southern tagging discontinued, but it is definitely pre-1974. Russell Southern became Russell Corporation in 1973 http://russellathletic.com.au/history-1970s.aspx (http://russellathletic.com.au/history-1970s.aspx), and their tagging changed to reflect this. I have a number of jerseys in my personal collection that show a completely different tag by 1974 (Photo #2) . The tagging changed again in 1975 (Photo #3 and Photo #4), and once more circa 1978 (Photo #5).

I have also attached a photo that shows a variety of Russell tags from the mid-1970s through the 1990s (with a couple of Reeboks included). In that photo, it is interesting to note that 1983 was a "transition" year in that two different styles of Russell tagging were used. Also note that the 100% nylon flag tag was not on the eagle head "R" logo tagging (red, white & blue) when it was introduced in 1983. The flag tag is also absent on the 1984 tags. It appears to have been added circa 1985, but I cannot positively confirm.

Back to Carlos' point, he is correct in that the Csonka jersey cannot be from Csonka's first stint with the Dolphins (1968-1974) based on the Russell tagging. From a personal standpoint, I have no comment on the jersey as I have never seen it in person or held it in my hands.

I hope that this information is helpful and taken in the educational spirit for which it is intended. It is in no way meant to be controversial or undermine anyone trying to sell anything.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for Atlanta Falcons and WFL jerseys

cohibasmoker
11-28-2008, 01:56 PM
Mark,
You stated in previous threads that you have personally owned and inspected over 800 jerseys. Your information on the evolution on the Russell tags is well documented and you backed up your statements without any personal attacks.

Unfortunately, there are some forum members who are NOT like you. Those members may have examined or perhaps have owned but a handful of jerseys from an era 40 or so years ago and then they declare themselves to be an expert on the subject.

Thanks again for the information.

Jim

G1X
11-28-2008, 02:54 PM
Hi Jim,

Thanks for the post. As a clarification, and by no means intending to be self-serving, I have owned thousands of jerseys over the years simply by the virtue of being in the hobby for a very long time and having the good fortune of making some bulk buys from teams during that time. One of those bulk buys alone netted nearly 800 jerseys.

I have also been very fortunate to have viewed major inventories of other dealers and several large personal collections. This has given me the opportunity to see thousands of other jerseys first hand.

This doesn't make me any brighter than anyone else, it simply means that I have been lucky enough to have seen and studied a whole lot of stuff while making many good friends along the way who know a heck of a lot more than I do in the niche areas that they collect. It also means that I am getting pretty darn old. :)

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for Atlanta Falcons and WFL jerseys

both-teams-played-hard
11-28-2008, 03:20 PM
http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/2863/e2qm4.jpg
1950s or early 1960s Russell Southern tag.

both-teams-played-hard
11-28-2008, 03:27 PM
http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/4961/dem3tt1.jpg
Russell merged with the Southern Manufacturing Co. in the 1930s.