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View Full Version : Steroids: Torii Hunter Calls Out Nolan Ryan?



Eric
03-31-2006, 03:07 PM
Is this now going to be the future of baseball? Players calling out other players?

It will get ugly.

This was in the USA Today

Outfielder Torii Hunter (http://fantasybaseball.usatoday.com/content/player.asp?sport=MLB&id=2470) of the Minnesota Twins called the investigation "stupid" and said there would be no investigation if Bonds weren't chasing the all-time home run record.
"They can say what they want, but there's no way they would launch an investigation if Barry Bonds (http://fantasybaseball.usatoday.com/content/player.asp?sport=MLB&id=1448) was not about to break Babe Ruth's record," Hunter said. "If you are going to dig, dig real deep. Dig into guys like Nolan Ryan. What was he taking? You want to bring guys like that down? I don't think so."

suave1477
03-31-2006, 03:10 PM
WOW now thats a hell of a thing to say by Hunter to throw Ryan into this ring!!!

Yankwood
03-31-2006, 03:13 PM
Nolan Ryan was throwing 100 mph in the 60's. Torii Hunter's a big goof. He was also kissing Kirby Puckett's A$$ on TV a couple weeks ago, so his opinion's suck anyway.

trsent
03-31-2006, 05:17 PM
I applaud the baseball players who are making it clear that Bud is out of line because he has decided too late in the game to start investigating. He allowed it to happen until it was too late.

Now, why bring Nolan Ryan into this debate, I have no clue, but Torii Hunter is a fun baseball player to watch so I will listen to him until his comments get really stupid.

byergo
03-31-2006, 09:09 PM
Nolan should say: "Torrey who?"

Yankwood
03-31-2006, 10:11 PM
Is this now going to be the future of baseball? Players calling out other players?

It will get ugly.

This was in the USA Today

Outfielder Torii Hunter (http://fantasybaseball.usatoday.com/content/player.asp?sport=MLB&id=2470) of the Minnesota Twins called the investigation "stupid" and said there would be no investigation if Bonds weren't chasing the all-time home run record.
"They can say what they want, but there's no way they would launch an investigation if Barry Bonds (http://fantasybaseball.usatoday.com/content/player.asp?sport=MLB&id=1448) was not about to break Babe Ruth's record," Hunter said. "If you are going to dig, dig real deep. Dig into guys like Nolan Ryan. What was he taking? You want to bring guys like that down? I don't think so."Torii Hunter is an idiot. He's about to break Babe Ruth's record for what? Hank Aaron has the record. Again, we have to listen to racism from black players.

trsent
04-01-2006, 02:42 AM
Torii Hunter is an idiot. He's about to break Babe Ruth's record for what? Hank Aaron has the record. Again, we have to listen to racism from black players.

Did I miss something where Hunter pulled the race card?

I think he was trying to make us think that maybe Ryan took steroids? It is a dumb comment, sure, but he never mentioned race!

Swoboda4
04-01-2006, 08:24 AM
Seligs timing is way off.The start of the baseball season doesn't need this now,it could very easliy been done after the Senate hearings(if that wasn't enough to tell Selig there was trouble)-BUT-the players crying about being asked steriod questions all over again(Torre:Isn't somebody going to investigate how the Grand Jury got leaked" and Sheffield:"This is a waste of my time") sounds like when criminals who are arrested/caught complain about the method used to catch them("where's the search warrant" or "I didn't know I was in a stolen car"). You should have seen Torre's face when a new line of questioning(in regard to steriods)was asked,"When did YOU realize something was going on in your clubhose".Giambi had a person trainer wandering free around the Yankee clubhouse 2 seasons ago when he was told that's enough-but Torre doesn't suspect a thing. Listen how does this effect us?-plenty. When all our G/U items from certain players aren't worth what we hoped, we'll see then. Gun to the head who who's game used stuff would you want now,Bonds or Griffey-tell the truth.

Yankwood
04-01-2006, 08:30 AM
Did I miss something where Hunter pulled the race card?

I think he was trying to make us think that maybe Ryan took steroids? It is a dumb comment, sure, but he never mentioned race!Hunter said that there would be no investigation if Bonds wasn't about to break "Ruth's record". He's claiming that "baseball" doesn't want a white guy's record broken. His erreor is, Ruth doesn't have the record. Aaron does, so he's made another stupid comment. If he had said that they don't want him to eclipse Ruth's total or pass Ruth's total, this would make sense but to claim that MLB doesn't want him to break Ruth's "record" he's inferring that MLB still wants a white guy on top. Like I said, Hunter should just shut up anyway. He's already shown his intelligence.

allstarsplus
04-01-2006, 09:11 AM
Yankwood - I came to the same conclusion as you did regarding Torii's comments.

Torii got himself on the front page. Not sure why he dragged Nolan Ryan's name into it except for shock effect. But then again, many people on this forum have done the same thing with their speculation on certain players.

Like Torii did with Nolan Ryan's name, I don't agree with any public blacklist except the guys that either were caught by MLB, wrote their own self-glorifying books on steroids, or were found guilty in the courts, and of course when a coroner confirms the corpse had steroids in their body.

I am talking about throwing Brady Anderson onto a backlist because he hit 50 HRs for the Orioles is just plain not right.

The steroid issue may do to baseball more damage than the strikes did.

byergo
04-01-2006, 11:27 AM
Brady Anderson is most definately on my personal Black List.

trsent
04-01-2006, 12:14 PM
Ok, so Torii's comments were assumed to be a race issue. I never thought of the race card when I read them.

Yankwood
04-01-2006, 12:24 PM
Ok, so Torii's comments were assumed to be a race issue. I never thought of the race card when I read them.Why else would he bring up Babe Ruth instead of Hank Aaron? One of my biggest faults is that I use my brain to think with.

trsent
04-01-2006, 12:27 PM
No, I assumed Babe Ruth was brought up because Barry Bonds will break his all-time mark and move into 2nd this season if he plays. He may not pass Hank Aaron this year.

I understand, just another assumption.

Also, the personal insult is out-of-line. Can you not have a discussion without insulting my brain use or whatever that stupid comment was about?

I do not mind debate, you should appreciate both sides of a discussion.

Yankwood
04-01-2006, 12:47 PM
No, I assumed Babe Ruth was brought up because Barry Bonds will break his all-time mark and move into 2nd this season if he plays. He may not pass Hank Aaron this year.

I understand, just another assumption.

Also, the personal insult is out-of-line. Can you not have a discussion without insulting my brain use or whatever that stupid comment was about?

I do not mind debate, you should appreciate both sides of a discussion.You seem like a nice guy but somewhere inside of you is a lawyer screaming to get out. You know that that's not what his comment meant. Once again, I will point out that Babe Ruth doesn't hold ANY record. Oh, there I go THINKING again. SORRY ! ! !

suave1477
04-01-2006, 12:51 PM
I have to back up Trsent on this one!!!

I dont think Torri's comment was meant to be racist at all, if anyone is making it racist is Yankwood all your doing is taking it out of context and making his comment worse.
I believe when he was referring to bonds Breaking the record he meant it as just THAT, that it was going to be broken and baseball considers ruth and aaron 2 greats and Bonds is going to break it.
Why did he say Ruth instead of Aaron? Maybe it was just a plain old mistake!!!
But NOOOO Yankwood has to make it a race issue!!

This why I love America no matter how misinformed you are you can say whatever you want!!!

Yankwood
04-01-2006, 12:54 PM
I have to back up Trsent on this one!!!

I dont think Torri's comment was meant to be racist at all, if anyone is making it racist is Yankwood all your doing is taking it out of context and making his comment worse.
I believe when he was referring to bonds Breaking the record he meant it as just THAT, that it was going to be broken and baseball considers ruth and aaron 2 greats and Bonds is going to break it.
Why did he say Ruth instead of Aaron? Maybe it was just a plain old mistake!!!
But NOOOO Yankwood has to make it a race issue!!

This why I love America no matter how misinformed you are you can say whatever you want!!!You guys are trying WAY too hard on this one. I'm going back to collecting discussions.

trsent
04-01-2006, 12:57 PM
Ok, Babe Ruth does hold some career records:

Slugging % - .690
OPS - 1.164
Runs Created - 2757

Pretty boring.

Yankwood
04-01-2006, 12:59 PM
Ok, Babe Ruth does hold some career records:

Slugging % - .690
OPS - 1.164
Runs Created - 2757

Pretty boring.Runs created? That's not one I hear rattled off like 755 or 511.

suave1477
04-01-2006, 01:00 PM
Yankwood yeah there you go again Thinking!!!

Didnt you say Ruth holds no records!!!

Actually he does RUTH STILL HOLDS THE CAREER SLUGGING PERCENTAGE RECORD OF .689%

Yankwood maybe you should slow down on the thinking part!!!

suave1477
04-01-2006, 01:02 PM
Were trying to hard you the one who came up with the crazy notion is racist and we are trying to hard?

im sorry Yankwood you just dont have your thinking cap on today lol lol:D

Yankwood
04-01-2006, 01:13 PM
Were trying to hard you the one who came up with the crazy notion is racist and we are trying to hard?

im sorry Yankwood you just dont have your thinking cap on today lol lol:DTrying too hard as in "you're trying too hard to defend an obvious racially motivated statement". My comment was commenting on HIS original comment. Let me try this a different way. I know it's tough to find a white guy with an NBA record but let's say Player A (white guy) is nearing the NBA lifetime assists record and he makes the comment, "I want to pass Mark Jackson's assist record" and never mentions anything about Stockton. The press would be all over that one. And for the record, before you label me what you want, I am a 49 year old black man who thinks we as a race have some battles to fight but believe me, this is not one of them.

trsent
04-01-2006, 01:14 PM
You guys are trying WAY too hard on this one. I'm going back to collecting discussions.

I always love it, instead of stating that maybe they are wrong, they always say something such as, "I'm going back to collecting discussions."

Cop-Out

Yankwood
04-01-2006, 01:18 PM
I always love it, instead of stating that maybe they are wrong, they always say something such as, "I'm going back to collecting discussions."

Cop-OutForget the right and wrong, it's just that you will never see my view on this one and you will continue to defend what shouldn't be defended. It was what it was. There is no cop out. It's just become a waste of time.

ChrisCavalier
04-01-2006, 01:25 PM
You seem like a nice guy but somewhere inside of you is a lawyer screaming to get out. You know that that's not what his comment meant. Once again, I will point out that Babe Ruth doesn't hold ANY record. Oh, there I go THINKING again. SORRY ! ! !
Easy guys!

I think you are both entitled to opinions regarding how to interpret Hunter's comments. Unfortunately, I think the way Hunter's comments were presented they are ambiguous enough to potentially be interpreted to have a racial bias (referencing Ruth rather than Aaron and referring to Nolan Ryan as "guys like that"). On the other hand, without knowing the context in which the comments were made, as well as Hunter's thoughts, I don't know if it is fair to conclude that these comments were racially motivated.

Does anyone know if there was more to Hunter's comments than were posted here? I know the USA Today is known for printing short, succinct summaries of stories to help readers catch up on the news without having to spend an inordinate amount of time doing it. I just think if these comments were made as part of a longer interview (and maybe there were specific questions he was responding to when he made these remarks) it might help determine the intent of his words. While I can see where some might interpret a racial slant, I personally hope that was not Hunter's intention. Then again, maybe I'm just looking at the world through rose colored glasses...or maybe glasses that don't see color at all.

Sincerely,
Chris

Yankwood
04-01-2006, 01:29 PM
Well, here we go kiddies. Here is the rest of Torii Hunter's quote that Eric originally posted for us. THESE ARE HUNTER'S WORDS:
"It's obvious what's going on. How come nobody talks about Mark McGwire? Here's the greatest hitter in the world and everybody is scrutinizing him like crazy. It's killing me because you know it's all about race".
OK. Now tell me who made this a racial issue? Torii Hunter did. Like I say, honest claims of racism and injustice are falling on deaf ears because of frivolous crap like this.

suave1477
04-01-2006, 01:34 PM
Yankwood i could careless of your black white green or yellow, i am not defending toriis comments all i am saying is you dont know for sure what his intent was!!!
and for you to say no matter what its a racist comment is just plain ignorant!!
So if that your place of being thats why this country will never have equality bcuz of people like you help keeping racisim alive.

trsent
04-01-2006, 01:34 PM
Well, here we go kiddies. Here is the rest of Torii Hunter's quote that Eric originally posted for us. THESE ARE HUNTER'S WORDS:
"It's obvious what's going on. How come nobody talks about Mark McGwire? Here's the greatest hitter in the world and everybody is scrutinizing him like crazy. It's killing me because you know it's all about race".
OK. Now tell me who made this a racial issue? Torii Hunter did. Like I say, honest claims of racism and injustice are falling on deaf ears because of frivolous crap like this.

Where was this first comments about Mark McGwire posted? I don't see it in this thread.

suave1477
04-01-2006, 01:37 PM
Torii was wrong to say that cuz McGwire was and still is scrutinozed it may not be as much as Bonds but i believe thats bcuz:
1 McGwire is retired so hes no in the spotlight!!!
2 McGwire is now not about to break one of the most cherished records in Baseball.

Just my opinion!!!

ChrisCavalier
04-01-2006, 01:48 PM
Well, here we go kiddies. Here is the rest of Torii Hunter's quote that Eric originally posted for us. THESE ARE HUNTER'S WORDS:
"It's obvious what's going on. How come nobody talks about Mark McGwire? Here's the greatest hitter in the world and everybody is scrutinizing him like crazy. It's killing me because you know it's all about race".
Well, I searched the web and found the full story below from USA Today. Based on the title "Reasons for Bonds' bad image split between steroids and racism" and Hunter's comments in the article, I think it seems fair to conclude Hunter's comments were made as a statement regarding racism. However, I think it is also interesting to see them in the context of the full article and not as a stand-alone statement:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/giants/2006-03-29-bonds-cover_x.htm

Happy reading.

Sincerely,
Chris

Yankwood
04-01-2006, 01:48 PM
Where was this first comments about Mark McGwire posted? I don't see it in this thread.The entire article was printed in USA today on 3/29. It's pretty easy to look up.

trsent
04-01-2006, 02:16 PM
The entire article was printed in USA today on 3/29. It's pretty easy to look up.

You have been a complete jerk in this discussion.

I read Eric's quote and that was all. You then tell me I should have looked up the original article to understand your comments?

I read what was on the forum, and you comment on the article and then make fun of what part of my brain I use because you used your.

You have made a complete ass of yourself in this discussion, then telling me that I should have looked up the original article - Get a life. Really, I like it, every time you are backed into a corner you make a bigger jerk of yourself.

Chris, tell me to calm down, tell this jerk to grow up. He makes a comment about this being a race issue, and then tells me I should have read the entire article? Eric posted a quote and that was all I was EVER commenting on.

What a jerk. Just say something like, "Hey, I was out of line because I figured everyone read the entire article and not just Eric's single line quote." But no, it has to be a put down every time.

Yankwood, back up and make amends or I guess you really are out of line. I never thought to read the original article - SORRY YOU HAVE ISSUES WITH HOW I USE MY BRAIN. I never really had issues with you before this matter today, but you have been way off base because no one else saw the original comments posted in this thread as being racist.

Yankwood
04-01-2006, 02:22 PM
You have been a complete jerk in this discussion.

I read Eric's quote and that was all. You then tell me I should have looked up the original article to understand your comments?

I read what was on the forum, and you comment on the article and then make fun of what part of my brain I use because you used your.

You have made a complete ass of yourself in this discussion, then telling me that I should have looked up the original article - Get a life. Really, I like it, every time you are backed into a corner you make a bigger jerk of yourself.

Chris, tell me to calm down, tell this jerk to grow up. He makes a comment about this being a race issue, and then tells me I should have read the entire article? Eric posted a quote and that was all I was EVER commenting on.

What a jerk. Just say something like, "Hey, I was out of line because I figured everyone read the entire article and not just Eric's single line quote." But no, it has to be a put down every time.

Yankwood, back up and make amends or I guess you really are out of line. I never thought to read the original article - SORRY YOU HAVE ISSUES WITH HOW I USE MY BRAIN. I never really had issues with you before this matter today, but you have been way off base because no one else saw the original comments posted in this thread as being racist.Well now, see. You have proved my original point. If you had used your brain you would have looked up the rest of his comments before commenting. You must have had a bad night at the black jack tables. Calm down there, big fella.

ChrisCavalier
04-01-2006, 02:27 PM
Chris, tell me to calm down, tell this jerk to grow up. He makes a comment about this being a race issue, and then tells me I should have read the entire article? Eric posted a quote and that was all I was EVER commenting on.
Okay guys. I am to ask that we take a step back and relax.

Basically, the situation was that there were differences in opinions regarding the article which allowed us all to learn more about the context in which the comments were made.

There is no need to confront each other or make any derogatory comments. Let's please end any personal comments at this point, thank each other for what we learned and move on.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

Sincerely,
Chris

trsent
04-01-2006, 02:34 PM
Well now, see. You have proved my original point. If you had used your brain you would have looked up the rest of his comments before commenting. You must have had a bad night at the black jack tables. Calm down there, big fella.

I don't play blackjack, another stupid comment. No, I never had to read the original article - All that was being discussed was the quote Eric made about Hunter and Ryan - No one even posted a link to the article, so we all assume it was just a quote being discussed because you are not using your brain enough to post the rest of the article.

You can't say you were wrong, and anyone reading this thread can see that Jason and I were commenting on the original quote posted by Eric and no where was any other quoted mentioned into you backed yourself into a hole.

I am still waiting for an apology.

(By the way, as of Wednesday I will be living in Chicago, so what will you have to put me down then? The weather?)

sylbry
04-01-2006, 02:49 PM
Why on earth is there an argument on a game used memorbilia forum on whether Torii Hunter's comments were racially motivated? WHO CARES! I can understand the argument on whether alleged steriod abusers are on your personal black list when it comes to buying memorabilia but this arugment, pointless.

On a side note - Joel, so far you have told two people today to get a life.

trsent
04-01-2006, 02:51 PM
You should email Eric and ask why he started the thread if you care so much.

I need to get a life...

(New count, 3)

Yankwood
04-01-2006, 02:54 PM
You should email Eric and ask why he started the thread if you care so much.

I need to get a life...

(New count, 3)You have a life. It's called "Fighting with everone on the forum".

trsent
04-01-2006, 03:03 PM
Take a look at my posts, I may have discussions, but I only fight when people are out of line. Let me know when you have read them all, it should take 3-4 hours.

You can't admit you were wrong. You commented on Eric's comment, the only one most of us ever read, and didn't properly attribute your comment to other parts of the article.

By the way, I read Yahoo! Sports daily, I never read USA Today unless someone emails me a like to a story.

ChrisCavalier
04-01-2006, 03:09 PM
I will repeat this one more time in case it wasn't seen in my previous post:

There is no need to confront each other or make any derogatory comments. Let's please end any personal comments at this point, thank each other for what we learned and move on.

This forum will not allow threads to denigrate into something personal. This forum should be used to help others in their quest to learn more about the game used memorabilia market.

Please do not make me repeat this again. The next time it will not be done without a reprimand as per the forum rules listed on this site. In case you need to review them, here are the rules:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=99

Sincerely,
Chris

Yankwood
04-01-2006, 03:12 PM
Take a look at my posts, I may have discussions, but I only fight when people are out of line. Let me know when you have read them all, it should take 3-4 hours.

You can't admit you were wrong. You commented on Eric's comment, the only one most of us ever read, and didn't properly attribute your comment to other parts of the article.

By the way, I read Yahoo! Sports daily, I never read USA Today unless someone emails me a like to a story.If you'll go back to the beginning, I made a comment based on what Torii Hunter said. A comment I believed at the time to be a racially motivated comment. You then began to argue with me. Not the other way around. If you wanted to argue, you should have been better informed. I then attempted to end the arguing stage by saying I will now stick to discussions about collecting. You then accused me of backing off and "copping out" in your words. Please don't turn this in to my attack. Once again, I will tend to collecting discussions. The blackjack crack was a poor attempt at humor. If you were offended by it, then I apologize.

trsent
04-01-2006, 03:46 PM
I still do not understand, the comments posted on this forum at the start of this debate were the ones that you were commenting on, about Nolan Ryan or Babe Ruth.

I just didn't see how they were racially motivated. Next topic...

I was not offended by the blackjack comment, I just always thought it was a dumb game. Then again, after a few million lost, I learned years and years ago that craps, roulette, paigow poker and baccarat are all dumb games also. Why gamble a game that the house has such an advantage?

suave1477
04-01-2006, 06:33 PM
Trsent you can come over my house anytime and lose all your money to me i dont mind, really i dont lol lol:D

Eric
04-01-2006, 07:28 PM
Wow

You miss a little around here and you miss a lot. I came back to my computer today to see that this little thread has exploded, along with many tempers.

First, Chris- thanks for trying to keep order here.

Secondly- the point of the thread, since it must be explained is that when players have fallen under the cloud of steroid suspicion, the hobby has seen a direct effect on the value those players' game used items. I was merely pointing out that instead of reporters pointing fingers now, it seems players are calling other players into question. If this continues, will we start to see the values drop on more players than we could have imagined?

I posted Hunter's quote because the state of the game of baseball affects our hobby, and it is becoming more and more vulnerable by the hour it seems.

As far as the fighting- I have to say, whatever point either side here was trying to make was completely overshadowed by the petty barbs.

We should be taking information and interesting opinions from these threads, instead what we got here devolved into immature namecalling.

Go ahead and call each other names if you really must, just please do not do it here.
Thank you
Eric
moderator

ryan4fregosi
04-01-2006, 09:32 PM
1. Nolan Ryan could strike out Torii Hunter TODAY.

2. Davey Johnson somehow belted 43 homers for the 1973 Braves. I demand an investigation, statute of limitations my butt.

3. In other news, *CONTENT REMOVED*

cohibasmoker
04-02-2006, 06:41 AM
Is anyone aware of any legitimate profession where the employer is aware of its employees selling and/or using illegal substances but does nothing about it?

Swoboda4
04-02-2006, 07:45 AM
Football,pro wrestling,college football,etc.

mwbosoxfan
04-02-2006, 08:54 AM
Is anyone aware of any legitimate profession where the employer is aware of its employees selling and/or using illegal substances but does nothing about it?


Football,pro wrestling,college football,etc.

Articles I've read lead me to believe that there are and have been PED's widely used in Pro football, but they have had a testing policy in place that has evidently satisfied the on-lookers. Nobody cares about "Pro" wrestling, and you bring up a good point about college football. I don't know anything about drug use and PED's in college football, but we do know that there are plenty of programs that will bend and break all kinds of NCAA rules to get a competitive advantage in recruiting players.

byergo
04-02-2006, 09:22 AM
Tori gets my nomination for dumbass of the year award!