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Canseco44
12-11-2008, 08:22 AM
Just wanted to see if anyone on here knew when M&N started making game jerseys for MLB. I have a 1994 game worn Jose Canseco TBTC Rangers Uniform that is made by them. I know it is real because it came directly from Jose and I have photomatched it to a baseball card from that game. Also, does anyone know the date this game was played. It was in 1994 and it was a TBTC game against the Brewers. I thought some of the Brewer fans may remember. Anyways, if anyone can shed somelight on M&N's history of game jerseys and what tagging to look for in an older one, I would appreciate it.

Thanks, Todd Ricks

dcrules01
12-11-2008, 10:13 AM
Do you have pics of the jersey??

Canseco44
12-11-2008, 10:27 AM
http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2330188190065780061bGBplk

http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2905461660065780061WohKgr

http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2592568820065780061XGyALa

I don't know how to post photos, but here is a link to the front and back pics of the jersey, and a front pic of the pants. Let me know what you think. There are at least 4 baseball cards of Canseco showing a photo of him wearing this exact uniform during a game against the Brewers.

Thanks, Todd

dcrules01
12-11-2008, 10:37 AM
Usually there is a tag in the front of the jersey with the mitchell and ness tag with the date of the game..Here is the exact jersey this game was played in 96 though....I love the tbc jerseys they are my favorite its ashame you do not see more of them for sale..Ill look around and see what I can find out..
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k195/metsjerseys/Information/rangerstbc.jpg

dcrules01
12-11-2008, 10:45 AM
Im guessing they were home the dates they played the Brewers in 94 were 4-13,4-14,4-15 Home
away 5-30 5-31 6-1

Canseco44
12-11-2008, 11:18 AM
This jersey is legitimate. That's why I was asking, I think the tags were not on the front of the jersey on the early ones. This looks just like the ones you posted, but doesn't have the tag on the front. It either didn't have them, or he removed them. Have you ever seen one of the Rangers jerseys from this early of a date. When did they start using the front tags.

Canseco44
12-11-2008, 11:39 AM
Canseco was not with the Rangers in 1996. They wore these in 1994 also, and they did not have tags on the front. Does anyone know when they started putting the tags on the front of the jersey with the date of the game? I have a photomatch of Canseco wearing this jersey during a game against the Brewers. the Brewers are wearing a tbtc style jersey also. If anyone knows the date this game was played, please let me know. Also, dcrules, where did you post that photo from? Do you know of a website that has info on that game? spideyman79@yahoo.com (game?spideyman79@yahoo.com)

metsmetsmets
12-11-2008, 12:20 PM
Hi. Long time lurker. First time poster. Mitchell & Ness began recreating vintage baseball jerseys in the mid 1980's. The first M&N baseball jersey for sale was a 1949 St. Louis Browns Roy Sievers model.

The story goes that at around the time that the M&N owner decided to sell vintage remakes, a customer came into his shop asking that his authentic game used '49 Sievers be repaired. The owner used the real Sievers jersey as the template for the first M&N baseball jersey.

Canseco44
12-11-2008, 12:29 PM
Welcome to the forum! Thanks for the information. My question was when did they start making them for MLB teams to use in games. My jersey is from 1994, does anyone have an earlier M&N game used jersey? Let me know, and metsmetsmets, thanks for the response

dcrules01
12-11-2008, 12:45 PM
According to Bill Hendersons guide 92 was the 1st year for Gamers made by Mitchell and Ness. I gave you the dates in 94 that the Brewers and Rangers played.That was the 1st year in the Rangers new park.They played 3 home games against them in April and 3 away end of May begining of June.I would try and locate a copy of the games from the opening series with the Brewers.I was just providing the picture as an example.Ill keep looking for ya to see what I can find out..:)

Canseco44
12-11-2008, 12:57 PM
Hey dcrules, I appreciate the help you are giving. You are very knowledgeable about these things. Where did you find that image you posted earlier with the Palmeiro photo? I actually just acquired this uniform and I should be getting it in today. I will let you know some specifics when I get it. What is the earliest TBTC gamer you have seen? My email is spideyman79@yahoo.com

Thanks Todd

both-teams-played-hard
12-11-2008, 01:56 PM
Hi. Long time lurker. First time poster. Mitchell & Ness began recreating vintage baseball jerseys in the mid 1980's. The first M&N baseball jersey for sale was a 1949 St. Louis Browns Roy Sievers model.

The story goes that at around the time that the M&N owner decided to sell vintage remakes, a customer came into his shop asking that his authentic game used '49 Sievers be repaired. The owner used the real Sievers jersey as the template for the first M&N baseball jersey.
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/7527/br11vn3.jpghttp://img408.imageshack.us/img408/5578/br5mv4.jpg
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/225/br12wj2.jpg

dcrules01
12-11-2008, 02:06 PM
Bill Hendersons uniform guide it's awesome and full of information..I always aim to learn a new thing everyday about this hobby and this board is a total asset.

suave1477
12-11-2008, 02:08 PM
Canseco you can actually check there website it gives you the history of Mitchell and Ness.

Have you called Mitchell and Ness? Theres customer service people are usually very helpful if they have the knowledge to answer questions

Canseco44
12-11-2008, 11:10 PM
I checked their site, and as far as I can tell, it makes no mention of the first jersey they made to be used in a MLB game. Not a retail replica, but the first one they made that was worn in a game. As far as I know, that Browns jersey saw no gametime. I got the Canseco game used tbtc jersey, and it is nice. It is actually made like a vintage jersey and even has felt numbers. I did find out it was actually used in 1993, not 1994. Dcrules, I hope this info will help you help me. One other neat feature, the jersey has vent holes in the armpit area just like the old timers.

Todd

dcrules01
12-12-2008, 02:39 AM
The first one earliest date according to Bill Hendersons guide was the Angels back in 1992.Any idea what jersey the Brewers were wearing in the 93 game??

Canseco44
12-12-2008, 07:41 AM
I will look again, but I believe they were dark blue with a light or white pinstripe. Almost an exact opposite of the yankees home jersey's. I will try to find the card and post a pic.I did send an email to M&N asking about the history of my jersey.

Thanks, Todd

dcrules01
12-12-2008, 09:19 AM
From Bill Hendersons style guide 1993 tbc Brewers

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k195/metsjerseys/Information/brewtbc.jpg

Canseco44
12-12-2008, 09:22 AM
Yes, the 1993 Brewers is dead on. MY jersey has the exact tagging in the neck, but not on the front of the jersey. Thanks again for your help. This jersey is now my favorite. It actually feels as well as looks like an old flannel uniform.

Thanks, Todd

dcrules01
12-12-2008, 09:34 AM
Im gonna keep looking for the date of the game and maybe somewhere someone has a copy.You could also maybe try a 94 Rangers yearbook they might have photos of the game.Its an awesome rare style if you ever see another player lmk id like to add it to my collection..And the Hunt continues

Canseco44
12-12-2008, 09:52 AM
I will keep an eye out for you. That Pudge or Gonzalez jersey from 1996 would be nice. I don't know if I have ever seen another Rangers or Brewers tbtc jersey of this style for sale. Can you post a pic of the first Angels tbtc jersey?

Todd

suave1477
12-12-2008, 10:30 AM
Yes, the 1993 Brewers is dead on. MY jersey has the exact tagging in the neck, but not on the front of the jersey. Thanks again for your help. This jersey is now my favorite. It actually feels as well as looks like an old flannel uniform.

Thanks, Todd

Canseco I am a bit confused.

I don't know your source of getting the Jersey whether it was from Jose himself or another collector or an auction.
But you said it here that the Jersey has everything except for the front tag.
Now Mitchell & Ness pretty much always puts the front tag, its basically a signature mark of theres even for the retail jerseys.
Even the picture show in the example shows the front tag wich even you point out and then mention yours doesnt have it.
In the same breath you say your completely comfortable with it?????

Wouldnt you be a bit concerned that it is missing the tag thats placed on every jersey but yours????

dcrules01
12-12-2008, 11:30 AM
Post a picture of the card or cards..Here is the Angels one.The Angels one has the tagging on the front as you can see..

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k195/metsjerseys/Information/angels.jpg

dcrules01
12-12-2008, 11:41 AM
Todd can you post a picture of the tagging in the neck?? Thanks

Canseco44
12-12-2008, 12:12 PM
I am comfortable with it because I got it directly from Jose, and I can match it to a photo of him wearing it. I can't explain the front tag not being there. It is 100% made by M&N and has a neck tag that looks just like the one in the neck of the Brewers jersey in the photo. I will look when I get home and post the details on the tag. I will try to find a photo of the card and post it. As far as the tag not being there, I have no answer. Matbe they didn't put them on the 1993 tbtc Rangers jerseys? That is why I am posting. I know it was worn in the game by Jose, just trying to get some answers about dates of the game or games.

Todd

Canseco44
12-12-2008, 01:03 PM
I have checked the jersey and there is no evidence of there ever being a tag on the front. So, is it not a retail or game used M&N if it doesn't have it? As far as that goes, is it not a M&N? The tag in the neck does look just like the Brewers. I do not have the capabilities right now to post pics of the cards, but if anyone can they are the following cards: 1993 Upper Deck Hot Shots#12, 1993 Upper Deck #155, and 1994 Donruss #92 Special Edition on the back. In one of the photos on the cards, you can see through his pants in the area where the tag would be, and there isn't one. Once again, I am not trying to prove the authenticy of the uniform, I know it was game worn by Jose Canseco. I just wanted to know the history of the uniforms and the date the game was played. Thanks everyone for your help, especially dcrules. You have helped tremendously. I hope someone can post pics of the cards. I am sure it will help alot. the picture with the Brewer player in it is on the back of the 1994 Donruss Card.

Canseco44
12-12-2008, 01:12 PM
I am still looking for a pic of the Canseco card, but just came across this one of Nolan Ryan. It is from the same set as the Canseco and he is wearing the same uniform. So, somewhere out there is a Nolan Ryan game used Rangers tbtc uniform. I didn't know they wore those caps though.

Todd

http://cgi.ebay.com/Jose-Canseco-155-1993-Fun-Pack_W0QQitemZ330129820270QQihZ014QQcategoryZ55936 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Canseco44
12-12-2008, 01:15 PM
Ok, here is one of the cards. If you had the actual card, this is the one you can see through the pants in the area of the tag, and there is not one. I will keep looking for the other cards, but I hope this sheds some light on the subject along with the Nolan Ryan Card. Where are all the other uniforms from this game?

Todd

http://cgi.ebay.com/Jose-Canseco-155-1993-Fun-Pack_W0QQitemZ330129820270QQihZ014QQcategoryZ55936 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Canseco44
12-12-2008, 01:18 PM
Sorry, here is the correct link to the Canseco card.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1993-Fun-Pack-155-Jose-Canseco_W0QQitemZ140271612884QQihZ004QQcategoryZ55 936QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZ p1638Q2em118Q2el1247

suave1477
12-12-2008, 01:56 PM
Canseco well not to throw more salt into all this but im just tryiing to point out every angle.

When they take pictures of players a lot of the time the pictures are from games of the year before or even spring traing of earlier that season, so this way they have enough time to produce the cards for the regular season.

So the cards are from the 1993 set which means, the picture could even be from 1992.

Just food for thought.

Canseco44
12-12-2008, 02:13 PM
That is true about the cards, but the only time I know of that they wore these while Canseco played for them is in 1993. All three of the photos on the cards are from the same game. While two of the cards are 1993, one is 1994. Both of the 1993 Upper Deck cards are inserts, so I'm wondering if they weren't made later in 1993. It is entirely possible, and really that has to be the case. As far as I know and from the current evidence, they were not worn until 1993. That is also backed up by the Brewers jersey on the other card. It matched the 1993 style

dcrules01
12-12-2008, 02:39 PM
Upper Deck always released an extended series the 1st set came out early spring then a extended set with all the rookies and traded players.So your card could be from an extended series in 93...

Canseco44
12-12-2008, 02:44 PM
Just got off the phone with Jared from M&N. He says it is probable the jersey would not have the big ptch on teh front this early in their game jersey history. He is supposed to call me back in 15 minutes with complete details. I will keep everyone posted.

Todd

dcrules01
12-12-2008, 02:46 PM
If it is a subset for the tbc game I wonder if it would have the starting pitcher that day in the subset...They played the Brewers 6 times at Texas that year..
4-30 5-1 5-2 5-3 7-19 7-20

dcrules01
12-12-2008, 02:50 PM
Canseco did not play at all in the 7-19 and 7-20 game so eliminate those dates...Maybe he was on the DL I checked the boxscore

Canseco44
12-12-2008, 02:55 PM
The cards I have show him in game action and running the bases, so he did play that day. As a matter of fact, on the card running the bases he has a mark on his right knee from sliding or hitting the ground somehow. MY pants match up perfect with the mark on the knee. Although they have been washed, the rubbing is still there from sliding.

Canseco44
12-12-2008, 03:01 PM
Just got off the phone with Jared at M&N. He informed me the game wa played May 3, 1993. He again stated it was probable that this jersey would not have a front tag and that the jersey would be labeled with a generic size, such as L,XL,XXL, and the pants would be a numerical size. Mine has the jersey as an XL and the pants are a size 34. He was very informitive and great to deal with. I have no doubts now that the uniform I have is the actual one worn on May 3, 1993. Thanks, to everyone who helped me out.

Thanks, Todd Ricks

dcrules01
12-12-2008, 03:06 PM
You should do a video search maybe someone has the game on tape...

Canseco44
12-12-2008, 03:12 PM
Yeah, I thought about that. I looked it up and Jose went 1-4 with an RBI in a 9-2 win over the Brewers. M&N did say they only wore these one time in 1993, then in 1996. He said the front tag was not shown for the 1993's but was for the 1996 jersey's. On an interesting note, Durwood Merril was the head umpire for the game. Maybe there is a game used baseball floating around out there from this game with his COA. LOL Anyways, thanks again dcrules, I will let you know if I get a video. And, I will keep my eyes open for another tbtc Rangers jersey.

Todd

dcrules01
12-12-2008, 03:17 PM
Glad I helped and I had it narrowed down to 4 dates not bad for a days work..Ill keep an eye out for more photos or a video from the game.

Canseco44
12-12-2008, 04:17 PM
Hey dcrules, just noticed a few things that are different on my jersey and the 1996 ones. Mine does not have red piping around the neck like the ones pictured. Actually the photo of Palmeiro stretching is from 1993 as well if you look at his collar. Also my jersey is cut shorter and only has five bottons. This would be two ways of telling a 1996 tbtc jersey from a 1993

Todd