Nolan Ryan game used Astros rainbow jersey on ebay

[TNTtoys]

All,

Please take a look at this one... Seller states that it is "game worn" and offers up no evidence, especially the tagging (though I can make out a tag on the back of the neck in 1 of the photos -- is this right?). Jersey is autographed only with Ryan's stats.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=250328147633&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=015

I have written to the seller with questions and 2 days have gone by without a response (20 bids later).

Any thoughts about this one?

Thanks,
Nick

[David]

The seller has impressive feedback and guarantees the authenticity, which are good signs. eBay sellers who knowingly sell dubious stuff are usually loathe to give an authenticity guarantee.

[trsent]

All,

Please take a look at this one... Seller states that it is "game worn" and offers up no evidence, especially the tagging (though I can make out a tag on the back of the neck in 1 of the photos -- is this right?). Jersey is autographed only with Ryan's stats.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=250328147633&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=015

I have written to the seller with questions and 2 days have gone by without a response (20 bids later).

Any thoughts about this one?

Thanks,
Nick

Nick, I emailed the seller and they replied this morning that they have added a picture of the tag to the listing.

16630

They didn't answer my question how they know the jersey is game used.

[TNTtoys]

Thanks Joel. I saw that too.

I have 2 Astros jerseys of this era; a home white and a road cream; both tagged by Goodman & Sons. The tagging is on the bottom front of the jersey, not in the collar... so my question is did Goodman & Sons tag the rainbow alternates differently than their other jerseys? Doesn't seem to make much sense that they would do this. I remember Rawlings used to tag the retail authentic jerseys in the collar whereas they tagged the game jerseys on the front. Anyway, anyone with more info out there, please chime in...

[DoctorLoomis]

Here is one of the finest Ryan gamers Ive seen in auction. The tag is in the NECK.

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=9971

[kingjammy24]

look at the way that the goodman tag is stitched. i can't see it perfectly clearly but it appears that it may be affixed via a zig-zag stitch. if it is a zig-zag, has anyone ever seen a goodman tag affixed in such a way? i've only ever seen them applied via the typical straight stitch like this:

http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/4122/sillygr2.jpg

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Here is one of the finest Ryan gamers Ive seen in auction. The tag is in the NECK.

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=9971

affixed via the standard straight stitch. i keep looking at the ebay jersey and it really looks like a zig-zag stitch and i've never seen a goodman (or rawlings or russell or wilson tag applied with such a stitch).

rudy.

[DoctorLoomis]

I am accustomed to the Goodman tags being sewn in straight stitch..all 4 sides. Not zig zag.......

[both-teams-played-hard]

It seems the Goodman tag should be a bit more "flush".
This a great example of why you should refrain from getting a jersey autographed. We got a bleeder!

[dcrules01]

Here is an 85

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k195/metsjerseys/Information/astros-1.jpg

[dcrules01]

Ok here is an 84-85 being auctioned off as we speak

http://www.memorylaneinc.com/site/bid/bidplace.asp?itemid=8002&getauctionid=66#pic

[flaco1801]

i have a rainbow common by goodman with a tag on the tail... i think thats where they are suppose to be

[trsent]

Other than the fact that someone doesn't like the stitching pattern and some think (don't know for sure) the tag is in the wrong place, does anyone have any concrete evidence to issues with this jersey?

[dcrules01]

Astros wore Goodman and Sons rainbow 84-85-86 with 2 color block numbers.The other years were Sand Knit/Goodman but the letters were varsity style.Didn't 86 have a patch on the sleeve???

[TNTtoys]

Astros wore Goodman and Sons rainbow 84-85-86 with 2 color block numbers.The other years were Sand Knit/Goodman but the letters were varsity style.Didn't 86 have a patch on the sleeve???
The 86 jerseys had 1 of 2 patches; either the silver anniversary patch or the All-Star game patch. They wore 1 up until the All-Star game that year and the other from the All-Star break until the end of the season.

[dcrules01]

I thought I remembered a patch on the 86's :D

[Rob L]

You may want to read #14 of this thread by 012562 regarding a dealer who sold identical Goodman and Sons tagged jerseys of the star players in the mid-1980s. Interesting read:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=7088&page=2&highlight=reggie+jackson+jersey

[dcrules01]

Wow great read I wonder what happened to the Mets ones...

[trsent]

I received an email today from an associate of mine who I have examine game used baseball jerseys who told me he is suspicious of the stitching of the tag in the next.

Same thoughts Rudy posted previously about.

[MikeSharon]

Goodman never put tags in the necks of Astros jerseys until the Astros started wearing button up uniforms in 1990 . They stopped wearing the Rainbow jersey after the 86 season. I know that goodman sold off alot of samples after the astros stopped wearing that uniform style. I own several 84-86 Rainbows and have seen dozens they ALL have the tags in the tail just like the cream and home whites do. There is no way that this jersey is authentic its has the tag in the wrong place.
Mike Sharon

[commando]

Goodman never put tags in the necks of Astros jerseys until the Astros started wearing button up uniforms in 1990 . They stopped wearing the Rainbow jersey after the 86 season. I know that goodman sold off alot of samples after the astros stopped wearing that uniform style. I own several 84-86 Rainbows and have seen dozens they ALL have the tags in the tail just like the cream and home whites do. There is no way that this jersey is authentic its has the tag in the wrong place.
Mike Sharon

Hi Mike,

I have been trying to get in touch... Would you please email me at policefan71@yahoo.com ? Thanks! -- Anthony

[flaco1801]

was the 1976 sand knit the only year they used a single color sewn on number? anyone have one? thanks, jeff

[MikeSharon]

my email is george.sharon@cyfairvfd.org I cant log on to it from work so ill try to email you thisafternoon

In 1976 they used a single color for the number on back and in 1975 they used a single color for the number but it was inside a large white circle(bullet hole)

[suave1477]

Here is one of the finest Ryan gamers Ive seen in auction. The tag is in the NECK.

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=9971


Mikesharon so your saying this was another fake Jersey? Am I correct???

Makes me wonder DoctorLoomis what makes you feel this is such a great example????

[buc]

According to Bushing and Kinunen, the tagging from the Memory Lane jersey (84-85) is in the neck, which matches their exemplars. If it matches the examples they have or have seen, do they own bad examples?

[kingjammy24]

According to Bushing and Kinunen, the tagging from the Memory Lane jersey (84-85) is in the neck, which matches their exemplars. If it matches the examples they have or have seen, do they own bad examples?

interesting idea isn't it? authenticating by matching it up against your other examples automatically assumes your other examples are 100% legit. if they aren't, you're just going to keep making the same errors over and over.

reminds of how lon lewis had the mcauliffe order sheets for the A's from 1968-80 and those order sheets show reggie jackson ordering only size 42 jerseys from 1972-76. no size 44s. despite that, mears has authenticated numerous jackson A's jerseys from that time period that are 44s. when confronted with the order sheets, mears justified it by saying the 44s were "in their database". [whoopdee doo. a database is only as good (or bad) as the data in it.] mears then amended one of their loas to say that "the McAuliffe order sheets show them shipping size 42 jerseys for Jackson but there are known size 44 jerseys existing.". again, it's false logic isn't it? just because 44s exist doesn't mean they're legit. anyhoo, back to the original post, there are times when mears seems to work backwards by saying that if something's in their database then it must be legit and therefore all things are measured up against their database. yeah well, nice theory but what if items in their database are bad?

anyway there's a lot of talk about whether the tag should be in the collar or the body. important fact no doubt. however, for me, i'd think the discussion would pretty much be moot in light of the fact that the tag is sewn via a zig-zag stitch. if the tag is sewn incorrectly then i don't know what other conclusions are possible. seems pretty clear cut to me.

rudy.

[buc]

Rudy,
Ryan continued to order Goodman jerseys custom made for him after Houston began ordering from other suppliers. Did you know that his were the only Goodman jerseys ordered? Could they have been stitched differently since his were the only ones Goodman made?

[kingjammy24]

Rudy,
Ryan continued to order Goodman jerseys custom made for him after Houston began ordering from other suppliers. Did you know that his were the only Goodman jerseys ordered? Could they have been stitched differently since his were the only ones Goodman made?

goodman didn't supply many MLB teams and past a certain point, it seems they pretty much only supplied ryan. when ryan was on the rangers, the entire team wore rawlings and later, russell, and ryan was still wearing goodman. so yeah, i figured his were the only goodmans ordered. when you ask if they could've been stitched differently since his were the only ones made, stitched differently than what? than all of the other jerseys goodman produced for him? the goodmans that ryan wore while on the rangers had the typical straight stitch. goodmans ordered while on the astros show the same straight stitch. this is the first goodman ryan jersey i've ever seen with a zig-zag stitched mfr tag.

rudy.

[Canseco44]

Mikesharon so your saying this was another fake Jersey? Am I correct???

Makes me wonder DoctorLoomis what makes you feel this is such a great example????


If this is true, and the only good Astros Rainbow Ryan jerseys are tagged in the tail, then there are gonna be some pi**ed off people who bought from American Memorabilia. They have sold no less than three, with prices ranging from $3,368;$2,827; to $11,492, all with the tag in the collar. The only one they have sold with it on the tail is a non-rainbow warmup that only sold for $806!

Todd Ricks

[lead bat]

Does anyone know the final price of the Ryan Rainbow that went out yesterday on ebay?

[Canseco44]

$1,063.00

Todd Ricks

[MikeSharon]

bucRudy,
Ryan continued to order Goodman jerseys custom made for him after Houston began ordering from other suppliers. Did you know that his were the only Goodman jerseys ordered? Could they have been stitched differently since his were the only ones Goodman made?

from 84-at least 88 when ryan left the astros the Astros wore Goodman jerseys in 87 and 88 the got shipments of Rawlings as they had the league contract but they wore the goodmans. so far as the examples selling and being authenticated i dont know but I do want to ask this question. Is it logical that the biggest superstar on the Astros of that era would be the only player to have the tagging in the neck of his jerseys when every other player on the team has that tagging in the tail of thier jerseys or is it more logical that all the jerseys supplied to the team would have the same tagging?

[buc]

I don't know. But is it logical that Goodman only applied the tagging like you said for the Astros, but for the rest of these, applied the tagging in the collar?
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=37857
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=34826
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=31177
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=28484
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=31534
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=23212
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=23217
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=9346
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=9347

[kingjammy24]

I don't know. But is it logical that Goodman only applied the tagging like you said for the Astros, but for the rest of these, applied the tagging in the collar?
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=37857
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=34826
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=31177
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=28484
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=31534
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=23212
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=23217
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=9346
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=9347

i don't know a thing about this collar vs. body issue. i haven't even looked into it. for me, the zig-zag stitch said it all. buc, look at every single one of those links you posted and the tags are all straight-stitched. i've never seen a legit goodman (or rawlings or wilson or russell gamer) with a zig-zag stitched mfr tag. i've seen cloth strip tags sewn with a zig-zag but not mfr tags. you can debate the whole collar vs. body issue thing all day but regardless of what conclusion you come to, the mfr tag is sewn incorrectly. let's say, purely for arguments sake, the tag on the ebay ryan is sewn in the correct position. does it even matter? it's sewn on using an incorrect stitch. this is like seeing an orioles jersey with "RIPKAN" on the back and a number 88 and we're all talking about whether or not the size is correct. if the size is incorrect it just makes it even worse but even if the size is correct, it doesn't make it good.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

re: tag placement

not sure how relevant it is to use other teams jerseys to determine tag placement. in 1991, rawlings held the contracts for most MLB teams. for most teams, rawlings placed the tag on the front tail. however, i remember for the indians that year rawlings placed their tag in the collar.

rudy.

[MikeSharon]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Nolan-Ryan-Game-Used-Houston-Astros-Home-Jersey-Rare_W0QQitemZ290079334351QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item290079334351&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A3%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

check out this ryan in the e3bay stores section it has the tag in the tail

[MikeSharon]

I dont really understand why you included DODGERS jerseys in this discussion but i will point out that the Dodgers jerseys have a double layer of material in the neck where as the Astros dont. the Dodgers jerseys tags are all sewn onto this double flap of material in the neck and the tags are not visible from the outside of the jersey. In the case of the Astros there is no double flap of material and the sewing lines and stiching would be visible from the outside of the jersey looking at the back, can you think of any major leage team that has ever had something like that? I cant.

[buc]

Rudy,
I agree with you that if it is zig zag, it is very suspect. I could not tell from the pics, although it does appear to be. I did find a few photos though on Heritage where it LOOKS like it is zig zag stitched, then you zoom in and it is just where it has been washed so many times the ends of the tag pill up.
Mike Sharon,
I see the tag is in the tail on ONE jersey. That however is ONE jersey versus the 5 other Ryan and Astro jerseys I have seen from the same time period with the tag in the collar. The reason I compare to the Dodgers jerseys is because you said Goodman did not place the tags in the collars of the Astro jerseys until the 1990's, which MAY WELL BE TRUE. I don't know. I'm just saying that if they tagged the Dodgers and other teams in the collar prior to 1990, why not the Astros?
I'm neither the seller or the buyer of the jersey. I'm just saying if you are going to lay the gauntlet down and call out a seller or specific jersey saying it is fake, you better know for damn sure. The seller offers a full refund if not authentic as his listing said, which is more than most on ebay, especially if they know the jersey is not real. Otherwise, calling out a seller without all the facts, or narrow minded facts at best, and you are just Charles Barkley saying Turner Gill did not get the Auburn job because of his race.

[MikeSharon]

BUC
I agree that is it rare to find a seller that will give that kind of offer of full money back of ebay i am not calling him out or accusing him of anything dishonest. I am merely stating that I own 5 jerseys from the same time period, the same style and the same manufacturer they all have the goodman tags in the tails.