I Sold A Fake Kobe Bryant GU Jersey

[DoctorLoomis]

I purchased the item below believeing it was a Kobe game used jersey. I then sold it a few weeks later for a little profit. When I sold it I had the best of intentions. However, a small time after that I found out that the jersey I sold was 10000% NOT game used. Mr. Lampson threw me under the bus. Kobe Bryant never ever at any time wore the jersey I believed to be the real deal. I never was able to find the buyer and the rest is history. Just wanted to share my story........


http://www.vintageauthentics.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?&prmenbr=57735959&aunbr=81766156

[34swtns]

It happens.
Sometimes even us so called "experts" in our respective areas get burned.
It takes a man to risk the consternation of some of the "holier than thou" contingent of this board to step up and own an eff-up.
You'll get no grief from this humble collector. ;)

[DoctorLoomis]

I know my stuff on post 2001 NFL jerseys...and especially college football jerseys. On NBA I am not expert and I got burned. Unfortunately I passed (unintentionally) that burn onto someone else. After this Bryant debacle, I decided to no longer pay attention to ANY Lampson LOA.

[both-teams-played-hard]

I purchased the item below believeing it was a Kobe game used jersey. I then sold it a few weeks later for a little profit. When I sold it I had the best of intentions. However, a small time after that I found out that the jersey I sold was 10000% NOT game used. Mr. Lampson threw me under the bus. Kobe Bryant never ever at any time wore the jersey I believed to be the real deal. I never was able to find the buyer and the rest is history. Just wanted to share my story........


http://www.vintageauthentics.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?&prmenbr=57735959&aunbr=81766156

Ok Loomis, this is none of my business...but since you started this thread, it seems you want to answer questions. Did you consign it to Vintage or did you buy it from Vintage? I guess you bought from Vintage with an Lampson LOA. How exactly did Lampson throw you under the bus? How did you sell this jersey? On eBay? At a flea market? Wrapped up in a little plastic baggy in Washington Square (or MacArthur Park, insert shady locale here)? Yea, I'm trying to be funny, but how could you lose contact info for the buyer? Again, not trying to pass judgement...just asking 'cause you started the thread. Yes, Lampson doesn't know shine-ola from a hole in the ground.

[DoctorLoomis]

I bought it from Vintage under the idea it was game used. I literally sold it off my back in Las Vegas. I was walking in Bellagio and a Laker fan saw it and inquired. I told him what it was and he offered to buy it. Thats how I lost track of the buyer. Never saw him again.


Thats how Lampson threw me under the bus......

[Billyu40]

I bought it from Vintage under the idea it was game used. I literally sold it off my back in Las Vegas. I was walking in Bellagio and a Laker fan saw it and inquired. I told him what it was and he offered to buy it. Thats how I lost track of the buyer. Never saw him again.


Thats how Lampson threw me under the bus......

What a minute, hold on, I want to make sure I undertand this! Were you seriously wearing Kobe Bryant jersey that you assumed to be game used? Then a random person off the street offered you, what Im assuming is quite a bit of money, for a game used jersey he see's you wearing, without any proof that the jersey is game used. What exacly do you feel bad about, wearing the jersey or the fact some random (obviously intoxicated) person bought it?

This is a great story that could possibly be made into one of those, "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" commercials.

[Jags Fan Dan]

Anybody who can be walking around and just arbitrarily buy a Kobe jersey for a game used-type price must have enough money that they really don't care if it's real or not. How did he pay you on the spot? I'm assuming cash, and not a small amount of cash. Anybody carrying that kind of cash probably wouldn't be THAT upset to find out the jersey isn't real. Maybe I'm wrong.

[dcrules01]

Why would you be wearing a Kobe Bryant gamer??

[otismalibu]

Why would you be wearing a Kobe Bryant gamer??

Because his MJ gamer was in the wash.

[B1SON]

Because his MJ gamer was in the wash.

lol! Fletch! I got it! Good one! :)

[B1SON]

What a minute, hold on, I want to make sure I undertand this! Were you seriously wearing Kobe Bryant jersey that you assumed to be game used? Then a random person off the street offered you, what Im assuming is quite a bit of money, for a game used jersey he see's you wearing, without any proof that the jersey is game used. What exacly do you feel bad about, wearing the jersey or the fact some random (obviously intoxicated) person bought it?

This is a great story that could possibly be made into one of those, "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" commercials.


I wish I had the _____ to wear a $1,000 jersey on the streets of Vegas. At least he paid you for it, your lucky he didn't just swipe it off your back. I'd be afraid of spilling anything on it. ;)

[dcrules01]

Because his MJ gamer was in the wash.

Lol

[helmets]

This whole thread reminds me of my mother-in-law when she makes up stories as she goes along...

[otismalibu]

This whole thread reminds me of my mother-in-law when she makes up stories as she goes along...

In best trsent voice...

You can't just call your mother-in-law a liar on this board without presenting evidence to support your claims.

Admins, please tell me why helmets is allowed to continue posting after this unprovoked attack on his mother in law.

Isn't it possible that your mother-in-law was the person in Vegas who bought the shirt? And maybe it's a Xmas gift for you. So you, my friend, might be knee deep in this scandal without even knowing it.

Gotta run. My inbox is filling up with emails stating that my posts are the most refreshing on the board. Really.

[flaco1801]

why cant he wear it??? its 1,000 bucks, u drive a 25,000 car and leave it on the street? whats the big deal, oh maybe he will be walking down the street and a can of paint will fall on him??? and if u really think the player was the last person to wear the jersey than u better get a grip... just put these jerseys in a showcase and stare at a thousand dollars of cloth.

[trsent]

In best trsent voice...

You can't just call your mother-in-law a liar on this board without presenting evidence to support your claims.

Admins, please tell me why helmets is allowed to continue posting after this unprovoked attack on his mother in law.

Isn't it possible that your mother-in-law was the person in Vegas who bought the shirt? And maybe it's a Xmas gift for you. So you, my friend, might be knee deep in this scandal without even knowing it.

Gotta run. My inbox is filling up with emails stating that my posts are the most refreshing on the board. Really.

Greg Faragher, if you are going to make fun of me, for something so stupid, make it funny like you usually do.

I was going to chime in with a few questions-observations:

- Joseph Mayo, what is the jersey originally good and now it is no good? I cannot figure out why the jersey was bought game used, sold to a guy on the street and then determined it was not game used. I think a story needs to be told what makes this jersey not game used.

- Also, Joseph, did you just happen to have the Lampson LOA with you when the guy in The Bellagio bought it from you? If you didn't, why wouldn't you have taken his name and address and mailed it to him?

- $1300 walking around The Bellagio in cash? You guys question some really stupid stuff. As a poker player in Las Vegas for six years, I used to carry 1-3 $5000 Bellagio chips in my pockets at all times as they were just as good as cash. In fact, once at The Commerce Casino in California I ran out of cash and I had no problem cashing one of these chips there with another player. In other words, cash or Bellagio chips are abundant anywhere in Las Vegas - Especially at The Bellagio.

- Finally, folks on here complain when someone buys a game used jersey then wears it. If someone owns an item, they have a right to wear it. I personally only wear my Malik Sealy Timberwolves warm-up shit, that I have worn for years and years and it is almost falling apart, but I wore this more than most any other piece of clothing I own. It was a lower end piece, but really, we are not to judge who wears a $50, $500, $1000, $5000 item they buy or own. I know most of us wouldn't do it ourselves.

[kingjammy24]

"why cant he wear it??? its 1,000 bucks, u drive a 25,000 car and leave it on the street? whats the big deal, oh maybe he will be walking down the street and a can of paint will fall on him??? and if u really think the player was the last person to wear the jersey than u better get a grip... just put these jerseys in a showcase and stare at a thousand dollars of cloth."

the problem is that when reselling the jersey, the buyer can no longer ascertain the amount of legit game use. this would affect the price and desirability. many collectors have no interest in lightly-worn shirts. if a person bought a very lightly worn jersey, wore it years, added considerable wash wear to it, and then resold it, then the buyers would think that the shirt was heavily worn when it wasn't. it's almost like unconscious doctoring. you can no longer discern legit game wear from wear accumulated from sitting on the sofa and that is an issue to collectors. cars aren't sold with significant premiums attached to their wear. you're not going to pay a lot more for a car because it's got tons of dents and dings and over 100k miles on it. look at the recent jim brown shirt. the entire issue with it was the LACK of wear. imagine if some schmuck had worn it around town for a few years and put a few snags and tears in it. it'd easily add thousands dollars to the final price and the buyer would think brown had worn it a lot.

"..just put these jerseys in a showcase and stare at a thousand dollars of cloth"

yeah i thought the same thing when i visited a museum recently and saw some 1200 yr old etruscan plates and cups. i thought why not bust those plates out and have some lunch on them? one of the bowls looked like it could hold a 20-pc KFC bucket. pour a little Sprite in those cups. let's all do our part to destroy a little history so the next generation can't enjoy it. what a waste to put them all in a showcase and stare at priceless pieces of clay. we could all be having a picnic with them.

rudy.

[dcrules01]

Joel I agree but I think there is a difference if you paid say $200 for a Gamer to wear and say $1500..Rudy also had some good points about wearing a Gamer over the course of time that had no wear on it and then wearing say a Football Gamer that was worn for 1 game sells for $200 the owner wears it every weekend for tackle football over the course of a football season then washes it but it has dirt stains grass stains rips snags his wife breaks out the sewing machine to sew up some tears...And then he resells it as a Gamer...Im sure a dirty gamer gets more attention than a clean one.We all love dirt :)

[DoctorLoomis]

Wow...you guys have really chopped me up on here! I will do my best...even though I have nothing to prove to any of you....to answer all your questions.

First of all I like to wear my gamers. I have owned 2 Manning gamers in the past...and now own another one...and I wore them often. I was wearing one in Caesars Palace during the Super Bowl two years ago.

In response to Trsent..I know exactly what you mean. I am a professional poker player. I am in Bellagio 50-60 hrs a week. Having 5 dimes in my pocket at any given time is status quo. Furthermore, meeting someone who has 5K in their pocket is also commonplace.

I had the LOA with me...in my car actually. I took it with me for the exact purpose of being able to produce it in case someone wanted to buy the jersey. Obviously you guys arent underdstanding that Las Vegas is THE place to showcase an item such as a Kobe gamer if you are looking to sell it. If I were walking down the street in Omaha, Nebraska it would be a different story.

For those of you that believe my story is made up, I could care less. To me wearing a gamer is fun. I enjoy showing the nice game jerseys that I have and it makes great conversation at the poker table.

Finally...someone asked how it went from game used to then non game used. The answer is.....I found an EXPERT on LA Lakers GU equipment. We spoke on the phone a couple of times. He informed me that Bryant did NOT...ever...at any time...wear a size 50 jersey in the year specified on my supposed gamer. Getty images further validated his claim. If my memory serves me correctly he wore a 56.

So theres the story....100% true. As the famous Jack Palance used to say...."believe it....or not".

[34swtns]

What is it with trsent always posting people's full names on the board every time he replies to a post where his name is mentioned?

Is that meant to intimidate or show how web-savvy you are that you can derive someone's actual name from what they've posted.

Let me say that I'm not impressed and I doubt that anyone is intimidated.
Stop doing it. You are only elevating your image on this board as that of a paranoid hothead.

Dude, get over yourself.

Richard L. Moore
(saved you the time, there)

[flaco1801]

rudy.. my definition of a collector must differ from yours... i believe a collector never sells, maybe trades but never sells.... yeah a person looking to sell later on with the intention of making money wont wear the shirts.... and to address the comparison of antiques to gamers is simply ludicrious. first of all,the gamers today are so plentiful u can hardly call they rarities, i wonder how valuable they will eventually be considering the amount that is thrust upon the "industry". tho i enjoy your posts, i think you are a bit jaded on this one. jeff

[both-teams-played-hard]

What is it with trsent always posting people's full names on the board every time he replies to a post where his name is mentioned?

Is that meant to intimidate or show how web-savvy you are that you can derive someone's actual name from what they've posted.

Let me say that I'm not impressed and I doubt that anyone is intimidated.
Stop doing it. You are only elevating your image on this board as that of a paranoid hothead.

Dude, get over yourself.

Richard L. Moore
(saved you the time, there)

Richard L. Moore,
You must understand that Joel Alpert wants everyone including, but not limited to, Greg Faragher and Joseph Mayo to be held accountable. I, Warren Humphrey, appreciate transparency on the forum. I am sure that Eric Stangel, wanted this also when he started this forum. If you have any other questions, just e-mail Chris Cavalier or Rob Steinmetz. Also, I haven't seen any posts from Howard Wolf, lately. How does Joel Alpert research these last names or remember them for that matter? And by the way, Greg Faragher's post about mother-in-laws was gold.

[ndevlin]

just put these jerseys in a showcase and stare at a thousand dollars of cloth.[/quote]


If you're calling a jersey a piece of cloth, you're in the wrong hobby/business.

[DoctorLoomis]

Guys you must remmeber I dont own any "classic" nor vintage gamers. All my gamers are within 10 years. Wearing a Manning gamer to play poker in the Bellagio isnt going to hurt that shirt one iota. It was built to withstand the pounding of an NFL game. I also bought the Kobe shirt to make a profile which I did. Wearing it in Vegas was my way of marketing it...and it worked.

6 years ago I owned Mannings Citrus Bowl jersey from his days at Tennessee. It was amazing! I wore it in Bellagio also....and was offered 2500 cash for it. I later sold it for more than that...but the point is wearing it in Vegas is the best marketing I can think of.

[kingjammy24]

"rudy.. my definition of a collector must differ from yours... i believe a collector never sells, maybe trades but never sells...."

selling or trading, the problems still exist. you don't know whether the wear came from game use or from some guy rolling around with his kids and it does matter on many levels. the jersey was altered from its original state. if a player, for example, only played a couple of games and the jersey appropriately shows light use and after a couple of years it shows heavy use, it doesn't make sense anymore.

"Guys you must remmeber I dont own any "classic" nor vintage gamers."

a 1962 jim brown shirt wasn't classic or vintage in 1963. it only becomes classic in retrospect. imagine if all the folks in the 50s and 60s had the same mindset. "why bother saving these things..they aren't from the 20s". we'd all be looking at mantle and dimaggio shirts with pizza stains on them. i'd say jerseys from 2 of the best players in their respective leagues and surefire HOFers qualify as "future classics". there are far fewer legit manning and bryant gamers than some may think out there. in 2040, those shirts will be considered classic pieces.

"Wearing a Manning gamer to play poker in the Bellagio isnt going to hurt that shirt one iota."

said right before someone spills their shrimp cocktail all over it. it's not even about stains. it's about additional wash wear that many collectors use to determine how much the jersey was used by that player. this factors into their purchasing decisions. a year or so ago i saw a 1991 devon white road jersey on ebay. everything about it was perfect except it showed no wear at all. normally i'd be all over such a shirt but i lost all interest because of the complete lack of wear. now lets say the seller wears it for 3 yrs, the tagging starts to pucker, the numbers pucker, the cloth gets soft. wow now it has wear. if i saw it with lots of wear i'd definitely be very interested. i buy it and be happy because i've got a great devon white gamer. then the seller says "oh yeah, i wore it around town for a few years. that's how i market my jerseys. i add fake wear to them". i wouldn't be a happy camper and neither would most.

anyway, i figure that many of the big auction houses probably know a thing or two about marketing game-used items and getting top dollar for them. i've yet to see richie russek or doug allen or rob lifson trotting around the MGM wearing a 1991 montana shirt.

"I also bought the Kobe shirt to make a profile which I did. Wearing it in Vegas was my way of marketing it...and it worked."

and putting it in an auction or ebay wouldn't have worked? would you really have had any trouble unloading a legit manning gamer any other way?

rudy.

[34swtns]

Richard L. Moore,
You must understand that Joel Alpert wants everyone including, but not limited to, Greg Faragher and Joseph Mayo to be held accountable. I, Warren Humphrey, appreciate transparency on the forum. I am sure that Eric Stangel, wanted this also when he started this forum. If you have any other questions, just e-mail Chris Cavalier or Rob Steinmetz. Also, I haven't seen any posts from Howard Wolf, lately. How does Joel Alpert research these last names or remember them for that matter? And by the way, Greg Faragher's post about mother-in-laws was gold.

Thank you, Warren Humphrey, for clearing that up. I, Richard L. Moore, appreciate your contribution in regards to Joel Alpert's possible motive for printing every forum member's full name in his replies.
And I concur, Greg Faragher's posts are often highly amusing.
Regards,
Richard L. Moore

[DoctorLoomis]

Rudy...you are quite an opinionated man arent you? Not only opinionated, but somewhat judgemental and condescending as well. I had the guts to post in a public forum that I was fooled on a Kobe Bryant GU jersey. Im sure most wouldnt admit such an egregious error. I did. Furthermore, with all due respect, I paid my hard earned money for all my GU jerseys. My money..not yours Rudy. I shall do what I please with them. Its just that simple.

[bubbrubb25]

Rudy...you are quite an opinionated man arent you? Not only opinionated, but somewhat judgemental and condescending as well. I had the guts to post in a public forum that I was fooled on a Kobe Bryant GU jersey. Im sure most wouldnt admit such an egregious error. I did. Furthermore, with all due respect, I paid my hard earned money for all my GU jerseys. My money..not yours Rudy. I shall do what I please with them. Its just that simple.
Well personally no matter how bad I wanted a gamer if you wore it around in vegas I most likely not want it anymore. So that being said when you sell your jerseys you should state in the description that you wore them, because as another form member told you we look for use on jerseys and you wearing it around in vegas and washing it is adding alot of use to it.

[Jags Fan Dan]

- $1300 walking around The Bellagio in cash? You guys question some really stupid stuff. As a poker player in Las Vegas for six years, I used to carry 1-3 $5000 Bellagio chips in my pockets at all times as they were just as good as cash. In fact, once at The Commerce Casino in California I ran out of cash and I had no problem cashing one of these chips there with another player. In other words, cash or Bellagio chips are abundant anywhere in Las Vegas - Especially at The Bellagio.
Joel,

I have to assume you are referring to my post in this part of your reply, and I have to ask that you re-read it. I never made any remark that questioned if somebody would have that kind of money on them. I merely pointed out that if they did, they must have enough money to not really mind if the jersey turned out to be less than a real gamer.

[trsent]

What is it with trsent always posting people's full names on the board every time he replies to a post where his name is mentioned?

Is that meant to intimidate or show how web-savvy you are that you can derive someone's actual name from what they've posted.

Let me say that I'm not impressed and I doubt that anyone is intimidated.
Stop doing it. You are only elevating your image on this board as that of a paranoid hothead.

Dude, get over yourself.

Richard L. Moore
(saved you the time, there)

Richard, people who do not sign their posts with a name I will reply with their full name. People on here do not like to sign their posts, and why? If you do not like my posts, there is a feature to block my posts but do not get on my back since I like to respond to people personally so they know I am directing my reply to them personally.

I personally do not like the policy of this forum that we have to look up user's names and they do not have to sign every post with a name and email address, but this is not my forum. If you do not like how I post - BLOCK MY POSTS - There is a feature to do this.

Finally DO NOT TELL ME WHAT TO DO - YOU ARE NOT MY MOTHER, MY MOTHER-IN-LAW, MY WIFE, MY STEP-MOTHER OR MY OWN, PERSONAL JESUS. I hate people who tell me what to or not to do. Block me but telling me how to post because you do not want people's names posted is your own choice - Start your own forum but don't get on my case because you like people to live with no names posted to their claims.

Sounds like the whining of a Chicago Bears Fan.


Joel,

I have to assume you are referring to my post in this part of your reply, and I have to ask that you re-read it. I never made any remark that questioned if somebody would have that kind of money on them. I merely pointed out that if they did, they must have enough money to not really mind if the jersey turned out to be less than a real gamer.

Dan, sorry if I misunderstood your post - I think it was several posts I was replying to, but no issues here - Your point is well taken and makes sense.

[34swtns]

Joel, I posted what I believe to be the appropriate name for you to sign at the end of your own posts but it appears to have been deleted.

Suffice to say, the person who deleted it might possibly be the only person on this board who would disagree with me to that end.

[trsent]

Joel, I posted what I believe to be the appropriate name for you to sign at the end of your own posts but it appears to have been deleted.

Suffice to say, the person who deleted it might possibly be the only person on this board who would disagree with me to that end.

I emailed you personally - If the moderators removed the thread and then you post it again, I assume they will consider suspending your account. I do not appreciate the personal attack and if you were a man you would refrain from the immature, childish, name calling.

[34swtns]

I 100% stand by it. And don't bother emailing me.

[trsent]

I 100% stand by it. And don't bother emailing me.

Sir, who are you to call me names in public, like an immature little child, picking on an honest man who likes to reply to people by their names so that the proper people understand my comments are directed to them?

If you cannot talk to me privately about your concerns, you are basically telling me you are a worthless contributor to this honest forum that cannot handle adult debate.

Please return to the Chicago Bears Fan Forum and whine about Lovie Smith or whatever they do there but this forum is for adults who do not name call and insult like immature children do not like people who give their views on various adult topics.

Aren't rules meant to be followed?

[jppopma]

Why do so many post on here get derailed and off topic? In this case Loomis was man enough to admit and error. I see Rudy's point on wearing jerseys and creating additional wear, but it really is the owner's choice to do what they want with them. In a perfect world, we would have autheticators that could determine the use was not consistant with game usage and take a few points off here or there. In the end, I would bet that Loomis would still wear them around Veags if it meant the value would drop.

Otis, I love your sense of humor. Just be careful or you may get someone coming back at you with full middle name included....just like your mamma did growing up.

Oh great, now I'm going to get called out for refering to your mother...oh well.

[trsent]

Why do so many post on here get derailed and off topic? In this case Loomis was man enough to admit and error. I see Rudy's point on wearing jerseys and creating additional wear, but it really is the owner's choice to do what they want with them. In a perfect world, we would have autheticators that could determine the use was not consistant with game usage and take a few points off here or there. In the end, I would bet that Loomis would still wear them around Veags if it meant the value would drop.

Otis, I love your sense of humor. Just be careful or you may get someone coming back at you with full middle name included....just like your mamma did growing up.

Oh great, now I'm going to get called out for refering to your mother...oh well.

The thread was derailed because an immature member of the forum called me a name in a post, which the moderators immediately removed. I hope they suspend this immature user for bringing the topic back up again. I do not believe people name call when they do not like one side of the mature debate that was in progress.

[aeneas01]

Wearing it in Vegas was my way of marketing it...and it worked. 6 years ago I owned Mannings Citrus Bowl jersey from his days at Tennessee. It was amazing! I wore it in Bellagio also....and was offered 2500 cash for it. I later sold it for more than that...but the point is wearing it in Vegas is the best marketing I can think of.

lots of ways to sell or market a jersey. heck, cutting the thing up into a thousand pieces has worked out pretty well for some. but i think most collectors at this forum prefer when a piece reflects its original condition, as in when it left the player's back or the team locker room. short of such provenance, i think most collectors would like to at least believe that an item was handled in a manner that would preserve its history and integrity. so, needless to say, stepping out in vegas wearing such an item probably doesn't make most collectors at this forum feel warm and fuzzy - nor would i think it would make them overly eager to purchase items from you. jmho.

but, hey, to each their own - just ask american memorabilia!


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/aeneas1/a04-2.jpg

...

[34swtns]

You want maturity? Try some of this.....
The reason there's no need for you to email me is simply this, if I have anything to say to you I'm going to do it in public to your face without fear of retribution from any of your buds who might be moderating this board.
The bottom line, Mr. trsent, is that you use proper speech as a cover to enable yourself to come off as an ASS.
You speak to people condescendingly, you act as though you know everything and your purpose here is to "school" all of us with your perceived vast knowledge, but I do believe that a lot of people here would agree that you mainly succeed in making yourself look like......well, an ass.
You seem to patrol this board like some self-appointed "sheriff" trying to pick a fight, any fight, with any number of board members every day.
I imagine there are several members who agree but won't stand up to you because of your perceived "position" on this forum......know that I am not one of them. Your replies are increasingly inflammatory, patronizing, and generally $hitty in tone and I, for one, am getting sick of it.
I absolutely detest bullies and even worse, "internet tough guys".
I would suggest you govern yourself in a more socially acceptable manner, i.e., bring yourself back down to earth with the rest of us.
You are not all-knowing. You are not omnipotent. You are not above anyone else here in this forum. Start acting like it.
And don't bother with the "I never said I was above anyone else" bullcrap. Your actions have already and repeatedly spoken for you. My final suggestion to you and I also suggest you take it to heart is that you make a heartfelt, sincere apology to the members of this board, in general, most of which you've offended with your self-righteous rhetoric at one time or another.
Now, before you start typing what I'm sure will be a vast diatribe of self-promotion and damage control aimed at belittling myself and this posting, I would also suggest that you read this again.....slowly, taking in every statement that was made and when you are done, actually think to yourself, "is it possible that these things may be true"? If you can do this, and I hold little hope that you can, you will have taken the first step toward rejoining the rest of us mortals back here on earth.
Seriously, try it. You'd be doing us all a favor.

[costas]

sure, he's done the same with responding to some of my posts as well. It's a shame though because there are six or seven Bulls jerseys on Ebay I was going to purchase but wil refrain from now.

[Canseco44]

34swtns, I could not have said it better myself. Truer words have never been spoken. I will stand up and agree with you. I think if he continues the way he has, this forum would be a better place without him.

Todd Ricks

[allstarsplus]

TIME TO LOCK THIS ONE UP! :mad:

[34swtns]

TIME TO LOCK THIS ONE UP! :mad:

Why?
Based on the responses thus far I'd have to say that is the monority opinion. People are simply speaking up (finally) regarding a glaring issue on this forum.

If people have somthing to say, let them say it.
Bullies shouldn't be tolerated in any aspect of life, be it the streets, the internet, or wherever.

[costas]

Bullies shouldn't be tolerated in any aspect of life, be it the streets, the internet, or wherever.

you have to love internet bullies, who probably couldn't punch their way out of a wet paper bag in real life.

[skyking26]

As a longtime member here who comes to learn I'm not sure why topics like this are allowed to continue. When they get off topic the thread should be locked, and when it happens enough it would deter people from arguing.

It's Christmas. Peace.

RK

[jdr3]

34swtns, you are astute and articulate. Don't relent in making your very apropos observations.

Jim Reed

"Rudy generally appears to be a loud mouth collector..." - J. Alpert

[allstarsplus]

Why?
Based on the responses thus far I'd have to say that is the monority opinion. People are simply speaking up (finally) regarding a glaring issue on this forum.

If people have somthing to say, let them say it.
Bullies shouldn't be tolerated in any aspect of life, be it the streets, the internet, or wherever.

WHY? Because this serves no educational purpose and got off on a horrible tangent. It is just a ridiculous back and forth like elementary school kids.

Why don't you and Joel and anyone else that wants to duke it out do it somewhere else and trust me, I am speaking for the majority who is sick and tired of this moronic behavior. Joel has provided his email so do it off the Forum.

This is about "game used" and interesting OT sports topics not about bullying and mother-in-laws, etc.

[trsent]

When someone is losing an argument, they attack the person making the argument by calling them names and resorting to swearing and bullying.

Richard L. Moore emailed me at 6:49AM Central in response to my mature, grown up email to him. He called me a rude swear word and used profanity to attack me.

If he cannot handle a "debate" with me, life will have to go on, because I am not going to be bullied by a guy on an internet forum who cannot debate like a mature gentleman.

Walter Payton would be depressed to see such a man unable to discuss and debate topics who has to resort to petty name calling and swearing and threatening because he doesn't like one's debate style.

I have done nothing wrong, but personal attacks and offensive language are not allowed on this forum, and per the forum rules, ignorance of the rules will not be a defense.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=99

Finally, if I have lost business because people do not like my debate style, I am really sorry. I have bought and sold items from many forum members over the years and I believe I have a solid delivery-payment record. You do not have to like my debate style, but at the end of the day I sleep well.

Finally, I will call the moderators of this forum to take action against those who have abused forum rules. I do not appreciate being called foul names on this forum and then after the moderator removed the post - The guy posts about it again. Why are there rules if the moderator doesn't properly punish those for abusing them?

[allstarsplus]

If he cannot handle a "debate" with me, life will have to go on, because I am not going to be bullied by a guy on an internet forum who cannot debate like a mature gentleman.



Why does everything have to be a "debate". You have used that in so many Posts.

Can't you start taking these debates off of the Forum?

[trsent]

WHY? Because this serves no educational purpose and got off on a horrible tangent. It is just a ridiculous back and forth like elementary school kids.

Why don't you and Joel and anyone else that wants to duke it out do it somewhere else and trust me, I am speaking for the majority who is sick and tired of this moronic behavior. Joel has provided his email so do it off the Forum.

This is about "game used" and interesting OT sports topics not about bullying and mother-in-laws, etc.

Andrew, I emailed Rick Moore twice. The first email I was sworn at and attacked with a crude, playground expression. The second email I was told to keep my views and interest to this gentleman on the forum, that he would add my email address to his SPAM folder.

I tried to take the concerns of Rick Moore off the forum, but he wants to have a public, internet only hanging of me for giving my opinions and replying to people often addressing them by their full names.

Sorry if some find this bullying - I am just trying to address those who make opinions.

[otismalibu]

Joel really has no idea what the word debate means, yet he's the self-proclaimed master debater.

Soon we'll be seeing his classic debate move, where he announces that this thread is done and that he's gathered up his toys and is going home.

Groundhog Day, starring trsent.

Pretty soon he'll be leaving the board permanently...again.

[trsent]

Why does everything have to be a "debate". You have used that in so many Posts.

Can't you start taking these debates off of the Forum?

A debate is when one person says "yeah" and another says "neah". There are many, many debates on this forum. I think one way, someone else thinks another way, so we debate both sides and often come to a resolution, often there is no resolution.

I attempted to maturely take this attack against me, with foul name calling, off this forum, and the attacker refused. Sorry if now I have to read posts that my family is hurt due to lost business because someone doesn't like that I have a view on many topics and I do not mind making it public.

Sorry that someone called me a foul name last night and after the moderator removed the post - The attacker reposted their views again. I expect the moderators will resolve this at the attacker had a chance to take this private but they have not this morning.

[trsent]

Joel really has no idea what the word debate means, yet he's the self-proclaimed master debater.

Soon we'll be seeing his classic debate move, where he announces that this thread is done and that he's gathered up his toys and is going home.

Groundhog Day, starring trsent.

Pretty soon he'll be leaving the board permanently...again.

Greg - Why do you have to attack me time and time again?

What have I done to you? Why is every post negative towards me? Isn't this another personal attack?

Why did you make fun of me earlier in this discussion, attacking me over someone's Mother-In-Law comment? That was a personal attack, as you attempted to paraphrase me.

Finally, what do you know of my education, and if you have a problem with me, be a man an debate the problem and STOP ATTACKING ME TIME AND TIME AGAIN - IF YOU WERE A REAL MAN - YOU WOULD DEBATE THE ISSUES AND NOT ATTACK MY CHARACTER TIME AND TIME AGAIN.

What a wuss.

[trsent]

Anyone else?

[costas]

how come you can refer to someone as a wuss and that's fine but you're offended when someone calls you a "foul name"?

[otismalibu]

Joel,

You really don't debate anyone, you simply chime in and say, "Well couldn't it have been..." or "Did you contact the auction house?" or "Why don't you fly to the coast to personally inspect the item." It's tiresome and it's not debating.

You simply cut and paste the same responses over and over.

It's called being a troll, and you, sir, are the master.

[trsent]

how come you can refer to someone as a wuss and that's fine but you're offended when someone calls you a "foul name"?

Did you quote what I said before I used the word "Wuss"?

I am sorry, wuss is not a swear word. Sorry you have to attack my family business on the forum because you do not like my views. My family really appreciates the public attack.


Joel,

You really don't debate anyone, you simply chime in and say, "Well couldn't it have been..." or "Did you contact the auction house?" or "Why don't you fly to the coast to personally inspect the item." It's tiresome and it's not debating.

You simply cut and paste the same responses over and over.

It's called being a troll, and you, sir, are the master.

I AM TIRED OF YOUR ATTACKS AGAINST ME - IT IS A JOKE HOW YOU CONTINUALLY MAKE FUN OF ME ON THIS FORUM - IT IS A PERSONAL ATTACK TIME AND TIME AGAIN - BLOCK ME IF YOU DO NOT LIKE MY POSTS BUT PLEASE DO NOT CONTINUE TO GET INTO MY BUSINESS IF YOU CANNOT DISCUSS TOPICS AND HAVE TO ATTACK ME IMMATURELY TIME AND TIME AGAIN.

And to think, I thought you were just trying to be funny but now I see you are just being a bully.

[otismalibu]

It's really not a personal attack against you Joel, because I seriously doubt this is what you're really like in everyday life.

But on this board, you've chosen the role of rodeo clown. You jump into threads to distract. Perhaps you're on the payroll of some auction houses and when one of their items gets questioned on here, they simply text SEND IN THE CLOWN.

That's just a theory. It's open to debate.

[costas]

Did you quote what I said before I used the word "Wuss"?

I am sorry, wuss is not a swear word. Sorry you have to attack my family business on the forum because you do not like my views. My family really appreciates the public attack.



a word does not have to be a swear in order to be labeled foul, offensive. Because I have decided to not yet patronize your establishment, I have "attacked" it. let me get an index card to write this down so whenever I have customers leaving my mattress shop without making a purchase, I could say they have "attacked" me.

[trsent]

It's really not a personal attack against you Joel, because I seriously doubt this is what you're really like in everyday life.

But on this board, you've chosen the role of rodeo clown. You jump into threads to distract. Perhaps you're on the payroll of some auction houses and when one of their items gets questioned on here, they simply text SEND IN THE CLOWN.

That's just a theory. It's open to debate.

Sorry, my name is not Ryan Friedman - I am not on anyone's payroll.

I think calling me a "rodeo clown" is name calling and another violation of forum rules - A personal attack.

How come some members of this forum attack others, breaking rules, time and time again, and they are not suspended?

Again, this forum offers for members to block posts, but you choose not to? Why? I make views and opinions and help out other forum members all the time - What do I do wrong?

You ignore my issues with many sellers and auction houses because you look at my posts with blinders. I have had my fair share of issues with auction houses, but you think I work for them or am on their side?

Get real as your comments are out of line and in no way true.

[trsent]

a word does not have to be a swear in order to be labeled foul, offensive. Because I have decided to not yet patronize your establishment, I have "attacked" it. let me get an index card to write this down so whenever I have customers leaving my mattress shop without making a purchase, I could say they have "attacked" me.

Sir, you said I had items you would have bought if I wasn't the owner of them.

You attacked my business because some immature character called me a foul name on this forum (since removed by moderator) saying that because you do not like my discussion style on this forum, you decided not to buy my Chicago Bulls jerseys.

If someone walks into your mattress shoppe and doesn't buy a mattress telling you that they decided not to buy the mattress because they don't like who you voted for in the last election, you'd understand why I feel the comment was inappropriate. Same, out of line approach.

I deliver my merchandise when I sell and when I buy I pay.

[camarokids]

Lock it up ! PLEASE ! How about enforcing some rules as well ??? MODS????

This thread has been hijacked... that is a violation!

How about a suspension for all that have taken it too far....

Lets get back to Game Used discussions........IF NOT ???

I am sure Big Truck can hook us with a Boxing Ring and some gloves.

We can sell tickets, donate the money to charity and you all can settle your differences....

Sound good?????

This bickering on here is way old...........PLEASE STOP !!!!!

[costas]

thank you David, happy holidays gentlemen.

[Moustache Gang]

Posters minus Joel,

I could not agree with you more. Joel is no more than a schoolyard bully trying to push people around. As a former Chief of Police, I have seen his type come and go. He wants us to care that he has Troy Kinunen personal cell number, he wants us to know that he has $15K in chips from a Las Vegas Casino in his front pocket and he wants us to know that he is a "MEARS Unofficial Certified Dealer" And oh yes, when somebody questions him he cries he is being picked on and whines that people are calling him names. YET IN EVERY POST HE SENDS OUT ON THIS BOARD HE STATES AT THE END, "Rudy generally appears to be a loud mouth collector who picks and chooses who he doesn't approve of in this industry and time and time again complians about their business practices. Joel Alpert 11/22/08, full sentence quoted, not just a partial quote." Now who is calling one names and picking on someone else?? and yet he does this in every single post.

Posters, show me one other businessman or salesperson who goes on a website, which is fully involved with buyers in which the person conducts business and acts in this manner. It goes completely against the grain of trying to run a successful business. Picking on the competition is done everyday, but to pick on a possible buyer or group of buyers is unheard of and not taught in any marketing 101 class let alone a Standford, Duke or Harvard Business School.

If you just do not respond to his emails he will go away.

Sincerely,

Mark Robert Weimerskirch
"Not a MEARS Unofficial Certified Dealer and proud of it"

[Canseco44]

I've got to admit, the number one reason I come to this forum is the excellent amount of resources on game used items and the amazing amount of knowledge. A close second though is to see trsent's comments and responses. They are hilarious and, most of the time, immature, but well spoken.

Todd Ricks

[ChrisCavalier]

I just saw this thread for the first time this morning (I'm on the West Coast). I am locking this thread as, although I haven't read every post in detail, I have to say it seems to no longer have any educational value to members.

I also agree with one of the previous posts on this thread that if you have something to take up with another member on a personal level, please do so off the forum.

Thank you in advance for your compliance.