Burned by a Dick Dobbins LOA

[Rob L]

Just got an email back from Bill Henderson regarding the Jim Abbott warmup jersey from 1989. Based on Bill's assessment, the jersey is a retail version, even though it has a LOA from Dick Dobbins, addressed to the original purchaser whom I bought the jersey from. Bill made very clear points which suggest that it is actually a retail jersey. Anyone ever purchased a jersey that initially came from Dobbins that was proven to be otherwise?

[Marichal27]

NEVER! Dick was the most upright and honest person I have ever known. Henderson's cd is full of mistakes right and left. Ask someone who knows jerseys, like Lon Lewis, who was very close to Dick. Lon is a member of this forum.

[skyking26]

I agree! Dick Dobbins word/opinion is golden. Never in all my years ever heard anything negative nor a mistake made by Dobbins...

[jppopma]

I agree and would go so far as to say even if it was retail jersey and Dobbins said it was used and worn in a game for some reason -- that it would be a legit gamer.

If there is something that doesn't match up, I'd would look more into the jersey and LOA going together before I would question Dobbins.

[suave1477]

Just so you know it has been known very rare but known that a player can use a retail Jersey for actual game use.

Example if he already went through the jerseys he had. The equipment manager might grab a retail and have it made up for the player.

It is possible.

[ahuff]

Rob,

Sorry to hear about it. I was skeptical of that jersey, as well. The problems I had was that the front "A" didn't match the photos of Abbott in the similar BP jersey. The other thing I noticed was that the jersey was purchased from the minor league team division. I am from the Quad Cities (which was an Angels affiliate) so I know that minor league teams wore these as well. Perhaps it could have been a hand me down (as the letter states) however, it could also just as easily have been a replacement done by the minor league teams.

[Rob L]

I wasn't worried by the halo in the A because the photos of Abbott are in the Rawlings jersey. I'm more bummed that it appears the LOA is wrong. This jersey was purchased in 1994 by a forum member and I purchased it from him. He's definitely did not do anything nefarious. I am 100% convinced the jersey and LOA match. Maybe it is a minor league issue and the LOA is just wrong. Definitely doesn't look good.

[kingjammy24]

here are abbott's 1989 and 1990 fleer cards respectively. interesting given that he was never recorded as wearing #60. my guess is that both photos are from 1989 spring training. who knows how long he actually wore #60 for but he probably switched to #25 before the regular season began. also shown is a 1989 card of wally joyner. no sleeve logo and a "majestic" style "A" on the "Angels" logo.

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/4223/sillynk7.jpg

rudy.

[Rob L]

Here's the email from Bill. I will post complete photos of the jersey and LOA when I'm back in my office on Monday.

Hi Rob,

I finally had time to look through your photos.

I would conclude that yours is a store-bought jersey and was not team issued or game worn. The tip is the ghosts of the Majestic lettering on the sleeve. Majestic put these on store bought jerseys in this timeframe. Your jersey would also have had a small embroidered applique of the MLB Silhouetted batter glued just above the team logo, but with washing these eventually all fall off. Not sure if you have an older version of my Guide, but in the 2007 4th edition this is illustrated on page 113.

The marketing of authentic BP jerseys in that era was complex, with Majestic having the rights to make store bought authentics even when they didn't have the contract for the game worn uniforms used on the field. Some teams wore the Majestic logo on their sleeves, but on gamers it was embroidered into the sleeve (also pictured in the guide on page 113).

Nevertheless, a nice surviving example of an old style!

Bill Henderson

[Rob L]

Hey all,

Here are photos of the jersey as well as the LOA.

[chakes89]

Who is to say the letter itself is fake?

Maybe the original jersey was swapped out with a retail jersey while the real thing stayed with the owner

Just my .2 cents for whatever thats worth :cool:

[Rob L]

Who is to say the letter itself is fake?

Maybe the original jersey was swapped out with a retail jersey while the real thing stayed with the owner

Just my .2 cents for whatever thats worth :cool:

I don't believe that would be the case. I bought the jersey from Mr. Silverbrand directly and there is no doubt in my mind that he would be involved. After dealing with him and having several conversations with him, I am 100% sure that this jersey goes with this letter.

[tym]

Hey all,

Here are photos of the jersey as well as the LOA.

Back in 1993 I was lucky enough to get invited to Dicks home to buy some items. His office was a museum! Stand up guy. Below is a cert from one of the items I use to own and shows Mr. Dobbins signature. The cert posted looks good to me.

http://friendsofcff.com/images/swift3.JPG
Regards,
Ty

[flaco1801]

the letter says purchased as hand me downs... its also possibly that the minor league team purchased a retail shirt and threw it in the mix, when sold to mr. dobbins. he had so many and he knew they came from the team he might have assumed they were all the same.... i purchased a few from him at the time.... if all dealers were like dick this would be a hobby and not a business... he was a class act. and by the way, i bet that shirt cost 20 bucks.... jeff

[Rob L]

Rudy has helped me behind this thread and got me in contact with Dave Miedema and Lon Lewis. I heard back from Dave and thought it very interesting. The Angels equipment manager seemed like a wacky guy:

before he died. I recall him telling me that the equipment man was no fan of collectors, and would often order jerseys without tags or even retail t
Dave writes:

Tough call on this one. I've seen the heat-pressed Majestic logo before on pro jerseys of 1990-93 vintage, but it IS rare, and usually is found on minor league jerseys. The collar tag, in and of itself, is OK, pointing to 1990-91 manufacture.
I do know that Dobbins DID make a bulk purchase from the Angels several years ags, just to "confuse" collectors (the equipment guy's words, as relayed to me by Dobbins). That being taken into consideration, it's possible that the odd sleeve logo is another attempt by the equipment guy to mess with hobbyist's heads.

Another thought...any outline of a rectangular patch on a sleeve or the chest? Some levels of the Angels farm system (such as AA Midland) wore US flag patches in 1991 in honor of the troops involved in Desert Storm. Evidence of such would, at the very least, point towards professional use.

I hope Lon comes up with some info for you, as well. Hope what I have is of help.

Dave Miedema

Can't wait to hear from Lon.

[hippo916]

In 1983, Dick Dobbins got me started in the hobby. And over the years, I spent countless hours with him at his Alamo home, memorabilia shows, and on the telephone. Many of us on this forum considered him a friend, and hobby teacher. And, I believe, we would all say, unequivocally, that Dick would never intentionally deceive anyone because he was a good person, and understood that his reputation was more valuable than the profit from a bat or jersey sale. Could he have made a mistake? I do not have the expertise to say. But I do know of an instance in which he refunded a collector's purchase several years after the sale because the jersey was not what he believed it to be at the time of sale. I also know that Dave Silverbrand is an honorable person.

The Angels warm-up jerseys were a bulk purchase in the early 1990s. Many of them were from the minor league Palm Springs Angels, which, Dick believed, received them as hand-me-downs from the Anaheim Angels. Originally, Dick sold the commons at $20, and stars and semi-stars at $50 to $100. Many of the jerseys were, eventually, sold for $10 to local softball teams. Lon Lewis' recollection should corroborate mine.

[Rob L]

In 1983, Dick Dobbins got me started in the hobby. And over the years, I spent countless hours with him at his Alamo home, memorabilia shows, and on the telephone. Many of us on this forum considered him a friend, and hobby teacher. And, I believe, we would all say, unequivocally, that Dick would never intentionally deceive anyone because he was a good person, and understood that his reputation was more valuable than the profit from a bat or jersey sale. Could he have made a mistake? I do not have the expertise to say. But I do know of an instance in which he refunded a collector's purchase several years after the sale because the jersey was not what he believed it to be at the time of sale. I also know that Dave Silverbrand is an honorable person.

The Angels warm-up jerseys were a bulk purchase in the early 1990s. Many of them were from the minor league Palm Springs Angels, which, Dick believed, received them as hand-me-downs from the Anaheim Angels. Originally, Dick sold the commons at $20, and stars and semi-stars at $50 to $100. Many of the jerseys were, eventually, sold for $10 to local softball teams. Lon Lewis' recollection should corroborate mine.

I guess my question would be "how were the jerseys initially identified?" In other words, what made this #25 jersey an Abbott vs. a minor league player. I would have to believe that Dick Dobbins had a way of distinguishing them as he as always been spot on. Any insight?

[flaco1801]

yes i do believe that they were from palm springs also. palm springs folded about 93... i have a blue mesh pull over rawlings tagged set 1 1988 with a desert storm patch and a white mesh rawlings set 1 1990 with a desert storm patch, also have a rawlings palm springs angels with a flag tag that has a tag 1986 ps all screened on i know they are "good" they were cheap and i wore them often. i even washed them lol