Can anyone help me determine if this glove is legit GU or not?

[BluesBroSJ]

Ok, so here is the story. I was given this glove a few years ago and I have always been wondering about how authentic it was, then i discovered this site and figured this would be the best place to ask for help.

The item in question is a David Justice 1990 fielding glove. Below are the photos i have taken of the glove and a scan of the COA that was given to me with the glove. Any expert opinions?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/BluesBroSJ/DSC02706.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/BluesBroSJ/DSC02707.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/BluesBroSJ/DSC02708.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/BluesBroSJ/DSC02709.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/BluesBroSJ/DSC02710.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/BluesBroSJ/DSC02711.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/BluesBroSJ/DSC02712.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/BluesBroSJ/DSC02714.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/BluesBroSJ/DSC02715.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/BluesBroSJ/DSC02716.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/BluesBroSJ/IMG.jpg

[skyking26]

Another "obtained from team employee story..." Amazing how these employees are never named. How convenient...

[chakes89]

Would you want to be named if you were stealing stuff from the locker rooms and then re-selling it?

:D

[skyking26]

Would you want to be named if you were stealing stuff from the locker rooms and then re-selling it?

:D
My opinion, if a name is not there than how credible is the statement? Not very without a name in my book. If you can't provide a name than don't make the statement...

[jppopma]

I'm no pro on game used gloves, but the name written on the inside in black marker does not appear to be very convincing.

Most game used gloves that I have seen will have embroidery for the name, number, or whatever the player wants on there.

[both-teams-played-hard]

I know nothing about gloves. However, wasn't Blue Chip one of the top sellers of Braves stuff in the 80s? The name "Justice" seems to have been written on the glove before most of the use. Just a little CSI. Embroidered names on gloves didn't come around to the mid 90s, right? Am I wrong?
Whatever happened to Vikes66 from the original GUF? Didn't that dude know a grip about gloves? What is Vikes' handle on this forum?
I would like to know about this glove...

[cincy13]

I know Paul Kinzer. He was always very good at his connections. I have no doubt that your glove is legit. He use to live in Cincinnati, the Oxford area, and I've always known for his game used equipment to be legit. He and his family moved to the Atlanta, Ga. area back in the 1990s. He had some players live with him and his family back then from the Atlanta Braves. He is now a sports agent. I know some of you guys are tired of hearing that "I have connections with the team", but he really did have some great connections. He use to get alot of Reds and Braves.

[mariner_gamers]

It appears to be at least a style match to his 1991 Topps card. The photo is from at least 1990 since the card came out before the 1991 season. Since Dave was a rookie in 1990 well you get the picture!

[mariner_gamers]

It appears to be at least a style match to his 1991 Topps card. The photo is from at least 1990 since the card came out before the 1991 season. Since Dave was a rookie in 1990 well you get the picture!

I jumped on this too soon. Once I blew them up and side-by-sided them they are similiar but different models.

I will look at some more pics and see if I can get closer....

[skyking26]

I know Paul Kinzer. He was always very good at his connections. I have no doubt that your glove is legit. He use to live in Cincinnati, the Oxford area, and I've always known for his game used equipment to be legit. He and his family moved to the Atlanta, Ga. area back in the 1990s. He had some players live with him and his family back then from the Atlanta Braves. He is now a sports agent. I know some of you guys are tired of hearing that "I have connections with the team", but he really did have some great connections. He use to get alot of Reds and Braves.
I personally would not think to use the "comes from ML source" or whatever unless I planned on naming it...it just sounds ridiculous otherwise.

[cincy13]

Once you name a source, you lose that source. That's the way the game is played. Once a source is disclosed then every tom, dick and harry wants a piece of the action. The ML source doesn't want to be bothered. It's alot more complicated now, but back when Paul sold stuff that's how it was done. When you do enough shows you learn who gets what from where.

[David]

I just checked and Paul Kinzer has been an agent for, amongst others, Rafael Furcal and K-Rod. So there's no question that he's had inside contact with MLB players.

[David]

Kinzer has been in the sports news lately. He is Furcal's current agent with the recent Braves-Dodgers contract bruhaha.

Maybe Kinzer was Justice's agent.

[BluesBroSJ]

Wow, I didn't realize that this post would get such a response. I just wanna say thank you for everybody's opinions on the glove thus far and i look foreward to any glove experts weighing in on the matter. I haven't had much luck in finding many photos from the 90 season with Justice in the outfield. cincy- thats a pretty amazing story about kinzer just for the record

[stlbats]

I am pretty sure that David Justice used to live in Covington, KY which is just across the bridge from Cincinnatii.

Thanks
Jason

[David]

I'm no glove expert, but this thread has shown the glove has good provenance.

[skyking26]

Once you name a source, you lose that source. That's the way the game is played. Once a source is disclosed then every tom, dick and harry wants a piece of the action. The ML source doesn't want to be bothered. It's alot more complicated now, but back when Paul sold stuff that's how it was done. When you do enough shows you learn who gets what from where.
If I had an item from a ML source and could not reveal it...it is not worth mentioning. I will not buy an item that states it somes from a "source." The statement without backup lends itself to an almost deceitful connotation, and when it comes to game used there is a very open area to deceive as we all know without goofy statements like "comes from a ML or team source." Please...

[cincy13]

If I had an item from a ML source and could not reveal it...it is not worth mentioning. I will not buy an item that states it somes from a "source." The statement without backup lends itself to an almost deceitful connotation, and when it comes to game used there is a very open area to deceive as we all know without goofy statements like "comes from a ML or team source." Please...
It's not deceitful. You just don't get it.

[David]

It also matters who says it. If Mike Holmgren says "I got this game used ball from someone who works here with the Seahawks," you're not going to think twice about it. In fact you're going to think "This ball is coming from charity from Mike Holmgren! Hard to beat that provenance."

This glove's LOA is from the agent for Rafael Furcal and K-Rod. Most buyers will consider this a significant source.

[skyking26]

It's not deceitful. You just don't get it.
I'll go along with David's last post as knowing and trusting a source. As far as "not getting it" Cincy, don't tell me what I get... I've been around this stuff for 30 years. I think I have a handle on it. The guy who started the thread asked a question and we are trying to assist. I myself back in the late 80's had a bad '84 Giants home jersey passed to me "from a source." It took me 6 months to get my money back along with help from guys who are still involved in the hobby. So, that said, case in point, it is easy for somebuddy to say "team source or connection." I can say it, but that does not make it true. Know who you are dealing with and do the homework...

For you, Cincy, to say I don't get it is laughable. I'm not sure how old you are, but there is a likelyhood I was driving while you were in diapers. Don't tell me what I get...

[cincy13]

I'll go along with David's last post as knowing and trusting a source. As far as "not getting it" Cincy, don't tell me what I get... I've been around this stuff for 30 years. I think I have a handle on it. The guy who started the thread asked a question and we are trying to assist. I myself back in the late 80's had a bad '84 Giants home jersey passed to me "from a source." It took me 6 months to get my money back along with help from guys who are still involved in the hobby. So, that said, case in point, it is easy for somebuddy to say "team source or connection." I can say it, but that does not make it true. Know who you are dealing with and do the homework...

For you, Cincy, to say I don't get it is laughable. I'm not sure how old you are, but there is a likelyhood I was driving while you were in diapers. Don't tell me what I get...
Well I've been doing this for almost 30 years as well, I'm in my 50s. Nobody owes you an explaination on where they get their stuff. You do need to do your homework, I'll grant you that. Face it, if I say "white" you'll say "black". We never agree.
'

[skyking26]

Well I've been doing this for almost 30 years as well, I'm in my 50s. Nobody owes you an explaination on where they get their stuff. You do need to do your homework, I'll grant you that. Face it, if I say "white" you'll say "black". We never agree.
'
It wasn't an argument cincy. I came on here to assist the gentleman who began the thread with my own hobby experiences. It has been my experience (as well as several others here, and laughed about I might add) that it's an easy goto to refer back to some invisable MLB source as a reference to authenticity. I agreed with David, if it is a guy like was mentioned on this thread, Rob Steinmetz, Mike Specht, BPH, John Taube, etc etc who's name is obvious to the highest regards of integrity - hey, you the said purchaser should feel great about that. If it is a name not known or not even stated - you have to ask yourself "why" that name is not being stated. Hiding behind "the source" baloni only begs the question "why." With all the money myself and everybody else here poors into game used equipment because of their sincere passion for our hobby; it is only reasonable that they as a buyer be offered all the answers. The thread starter sounded as if he did not have alot of knowledge about gloves. I own 3 Kingman gloves and even with the 3 coming direct from the player I still did additional homework.

Again, no argument. We are all here together to be informed and enjoy the hobby. I do not want to see anybody taken. You just rubbed me the WRONG WAY when you stated "you don't get it." Very condescending comment...

[skyking26]

Nobody owes you an explaination on where they get their stuff.

I forgot to mention, in regards to this quote, if a guy is selling something.......yes, I believe he owes me an explanation of where he got it or myself and most others will not be buying. Common sense...

[both-teams-played-hard]

Does anyone know what year players names were embroidered on game gloves?
Impeccable sources of provenance, team paperwork, letters of authenticity, certificates of opinion, notorized statements, etc. really don't mean jack. They look nice when framed next to the item in question, to impress the neophytes. A game used jersey or bat or glove either is real or it is not real. Legitimate items authenticate themselves. Think about Tony's Arod bat.....Arod himself claims it to be something that it may not be.

[skyking26]

Does anyone know what year players names were embroidered on game gloves?
Impeccable sources of provenance, team paperwork, letters of authenticity, certificates of opinion, notorized statements, etc. really don't mean jack. They look nice when framed next to the item in question, to impress the neophytes. A game used jersey or bat or glove either is real or it is not real. Legitimate items authenticate themselves. Think about Tony's Arod bat.....Arod himself claims it to be something that it may not be.
Check out Chris Cavalier's post today regarding the collector demanding team COA's/Paperwork. Regarding gloves, I have 3 Kingman all with a signed letter from him. It does not get better than that. I also have photomatches for 2 of the 3. Better yet. If we the collecting community is to pay out the big dollars in this economy or even in good times - I believe it should have collector homework and whatever professional COA's go with it. I believe my COA's with Kingman's sig attesting to his usage and the photomatch's DO MEAN JACK. The mean jack to me. And, if in retirement the kids could care less about my stuff and I want to choose to sell anything, it is a great resale tool rather than me saying, "yea, it came from the player or mlb source." How people buy into an invisible figure is beyond me... But, we all do with our money what we want. This is America, and we all have rights.

I have heard stories, btw, of doctored ml players gloves with embroidered name on it. In the case I am addressing, the player never touched it, but it was sold as player used.

[CollectGU]

Check out Chris Cavalier's post today regarding the collector demanding team COA's/Paperwork. Regarding gloves, I have 3 Kingman all with a signed letter from him. It does not get better than that. I also have photomatches for 2 of the 3.


Can you post your 2 photo matched itemms with the photo match? True phot matches are hard to come by and I would love to see them

Thanks,
Dave

[skyking26]

Can you post your 2 photo matched itemms with the photo match? True phot matches are hard to come by and I would love to see them

Thanks,
Dave
Would be delighted. Email me privately and I'll forward the photomatches. skyking442@hotmail.com. It will be this evening as it is my daughter's birthday today...

RK

[BluesBroSJ]

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone that offered input on this thread. I was always kind of skeptical that this was legitimate, but it seems like the odds are that it is more legit than not.

Thank you all for the opinions / advice