Buyer Beware: Sticky Residue and Use Added to Bagwell Bat

[frikativ54]

In mid-December, I had my eye on a Jeff Bagwell game-model SAM bat on eBay. Bagwell SAM bats are very rare, and to even find a game-model bat is truly an exciting experience. I would have jumped on the eBay auction, but for a $500 final payment I made on another Bagwell item. Game Used Forum member and eGameUsed.com dealer Chris Boyd won the bat for $177.50. Here is the auction in question:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=160303818119.

At the time, I congratulated Chris on his find, and he responded that he couldn't "beat the price".

Story over, right?

Yesterday I was surfing the net, when I find a listing for a "Game Used" Bagwell SAM bat on Boyd's site. Here is Chris's website as it appeared last night:



After seeing the SAM bat listed on eGameUsed.com, I immediately became suspicious. Since Bagwell SAM bats are so rare, could this possibly be the game-model bat that appeared on eBay last month? I emailed Chris Boyd and asked him if the two bats were one and the same. He replied in the affirmative. When I questioned him on the discrepancy between the game-model description and the game-used description on his site, there was no response.

It was only after I asked him for pictures of the bat, that Chris described the use and gave me photographs. The use was as follows:

"The Sam bat does have a a few signs of light use, including a couple of ball marks, and some slight tacky tar around the center brand. It dates to 2003. It looks like the bat he is using on the cover of the Astros program from his jersey retirement game." -Chris Boyd

Below you will find the photographs:


Original Un-Used Bat


Supposedly Game-Used Bat (Bottom of Two)

Although I can't tell for sure because of the opacity of the first scan, there appears to be no sticky substance present. Since I couldn't be sure about my suspicians, I decided to contact the original seller. Perhaps he listed it as game-model because he couldn't 100% verify the source of the bat. Or maybe he was a novice and just didn't see the use. The original seller's response speaks volumes:

"I sold the bat in new condition. It was not game used with any marks or residue on it, so any changes made to the bat were done so after his purchase from me."

While I try to give people I buy from the benefit of the doubt, I cannot help but believe that this bat was altered to turn a profit. The more the bat resembles that on the cover of the Bagwell jersey retirement game program, the more attractive it would be to Chris Boyd's audience. I gave Chris a chance to respond to the discrepancy in the descriptions, but I heard nothing. Since I didn't hear back from Chris until I asked for the scans, I thought I would leave it up to Game Used Forum readers to decide who is right in this case.

All that notwithstanding, I have done a number of transactions wtih Chris Boyd. I bought a pair of Bagwell cleats, $1000 batting gloves, a jersey I later found out that he made a $1700 profit on, and game-used wristbands. If Chris is altering bats, what is to prevent him from contriving use on my jersey? Or on the cleats that are the centerpiece of my collection? If I am wrong about this situation, then I am truly sorry. But given that Chris has been accused of altering bats on this forum before, I cannot help but conclude that this is merely another case of a dealer altering an item to turn a profit.

For those of you who are game-used experts, do I have any recourse for the purchases I made, if the seller has been found to sell contrived goods? Maybe someone here could give me some advice.

Thanks for reading!

-Frik

[Rboitano]

Re: Buyer Beware: Sticky Residue and Use Added to Bagwell Bat

This is not the first time it has been brought up. There was a Pujols bat a few years ago that was doctored.

[Rboitano]

Re: Buyer Beware: Sticky Residue and Use Added to Bagwell Bat

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=1447&page=4

[zookerman182]

Re: Buyer Beware: Sticky Residue and Use Added to Bagwell Bat

I have dealt with Boyd one time and it didnt go too smoothly.

It took him 6 weeks to ship a bat i paid $1500 for.......which was already $500 more than i hoped to pay for the bat.

My theory is. If my customer is going to pay for anything, let alone a $1500 bat, they need to get the product quickly.

I didnt have much of a problem paying the extra 50% for the bat since it was one i really wanted, that isnt really the issue. The month and a half with no responses and no bat was what scared me just a little.

In the end i did get the bat, it just took forever.

I hope the doctoring thing isnt true. If it is, then thats a shame.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Buyer Beware: Sticky Residue and Use Added to Bagwell Bat

this one was a classic:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=10353

chris bought a bat with no tar on ebay and claims that when he received the bat it had tar.

back when i made my first million, i couldn't find comedy this good.

rudy.

[frikativ54]

Re: Buyer Beware: Sticky Residue and Use Added to Bagwell Bat

One more note: I bought a Bagwell Jersey last year from Chris. When I asked him about his source, he told me it was from "a friend of Jeff's from California." He also told me that $2500-3500 is fair price for a Bagwell shirt, and that another guy's Bagwell jersey on eBay was fake and was too low for a legit Bagwell gamer. Well, turns out, last summer I get an email from the supposed Californian friend, and he lives in Colorado and doesn't know Jeff personally. Plus Boyd's mystery source offers me a jersey at a price that was lower than the fake on eBay.

He even shows me pics of my jersey, before he sold it to Chris. Boyd also charged me more for my jersey because he said this one had a perfect signature. After I commit to buying it, he tells me that he wants his other 2003 pinstripe signed in thinner pen, so it doesn't get faded. Although this raises questions in my mind, it wasn't till I got the jersey that I realized that the jersey I bought with the thicker pen had faded. So - I basically got ripped off for $3275 and have no recourse. This is not to mention the fact that I found out that the batting gloves he sold me for $1000 regularly go for $250-300 in the Houston area.

Guess I had to learn a lesson the hard way.

[frikativ54]

Re: Buyer Beware: Sticky Residue and Use Added to Bagwell Bat

That should read...the jersey with the thicker pen's signature had faded. Not the jersey itself.

[eGameUsed]

Re: Buyer Beware: Sticky Residue and Use Added to Bagwell Bat

Frik,

Good news is you are incorrect! However, I did make a mistake in my e-mail regarding which bat I was describing. I was referring to the Easton bat you also asked for pictures of. The part of my e-mail where I describe the Sam bat as having no use was cut out, likely from my blackberry I sent the e-mail from. If you study all the pictures I sent, you will see there is not a bit of tar or use on the Sam bat. Here are pictures:













The bat is exactly as received from the seller and not altered! Does anyone see any signs of use on the Sam bat? Does everyone see the light sticky pine tar around the centerbrand of the Easton?

In terms of prices you have paid for items in the past, I can't help what you have paid. Did I make you buy it? No! Did you beg me to sell them to you after I saif they wern't for sale? Yes! Did you agree to the price? Yes. Did I let you pay off both items over many months? Yes! Are you bitter because I won't sell you the Daryle Kile tribute cleats? Yes! Will you ever get a pair now? NO!

I will accept your apology via e-mail! Next time I would ask that you confirm any doubt or confusion you have via personal e-mail. This all could have been avoided!

[b.heagy]

Re: Buyer Beware: Sticky Residue and Use Added to Bagwell Bat

The ad that Frik has supplied has "Shows light use" in the description. You stated it has no use. Is the description in the ad wrong as well?

[frikativ54]

Re: Buyer Beware: Sticky Residue and Use Added to Bagwell Bat

Frik,

In terms of prices you have paid for items in the past, I can't help what you have paid. Did I make you buy it? No! Did you beg me to sell them to you after I saif they wern't for sale? Yes! Did you agree to the price? Yes. Did I let you pay off both items over many months? Yes! Are you bitter because I won't sell you the Daryle Kile tribute cleats? Yes! Will you ever get a pair now? NO!

I will accept your apology via e-mail! Next time I would ask that you confirm any doubt or confusion you have via personal e-mail. This all could have been avoided!

I need to apologize for the fact you sent me misleading emails? Read the description on your website that says it's a game-used bat. Give me a break! Describe your own items correctly and you will avoid problems in the first place. If you wouldn't have lied to me about your sources and the prices, then I never would have bought from you in the first place. Lie and pout all you want - you've lost my business.

If you think I am the only one with problems with you, get real! You should read the emails I get about you from other sellers. I talked to Denny Esken yesterday, and he doesn't think very highly of your business practices. The guy who sold you the Biggio bat on your homepage thinks you are a "lousy human being". People off the forum dislike your business practices, and I have the emails and sources to back it up.

And what's this joke about never going to get the cleats I desire? You don't control the market. I have items that you won't own. Wake up, Chris, I don't see any 1/1 lineup cards in your collection. I don't think you have any Bagwell game-ready gloves, or anything of that sort. I have rare baseball cards you don't own.

And I love your constant jokes about a million dollars. That's not a lot of money in this world. I live in one of the wealthiest cities in Washington State, and I know the kids of top business executives. My family and those around me earn our fortunes ethically, and we have a lot more than you have. So - don't try this crap about how much money you have.

You can't take money or game-used items into the grave with you, Chris. When you're gone it's all about your reputation and what you do in the world. You should really rethink your priorities.

[frikativ54]

Re: Buyer Beware: Sticky Residue and Use Added to Bagwell Bat

It seems like you have had problems with other people in the past, Chris.

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/404/RipOff0404196.htm

And BTW, if you don't refund the jersey with the faded auto and the non-existing source, I will take you to the Better Business Bureau.

[chakes89]

Re: Buyer Beware: Sticky Residue and Use Added to Bagwell Bat

How are you able to tell if a "sticky residue" is "added" to anything just by looking at pictures?

[frikativ54]

Re: Buyer Beware: Sticky Residue and Use Added to Bagwell Bat

The ad that Frik has supplied has "Shows light use" in the description. You stated it has no use. Is the description in the ad wrong as well?

That email was never sent from any Blackberry - I just checked my records. What a tangled web we weave, Chris, when we first practice to deceive.

[eGameUsed]

Re: Buyer Beware: Sticky Residue and Use Added to Bagwell Bat

Frik,

You need to make sure you tell the whole story! I own three 2003 Bagwell Home Pinstripe jerseys. We agreed to an unsigned jersey (I still own by the way). I offered to get it signed for you at a Bagwell signing. I purchased the jersey from Leland's along with a Bagwell jersey. Because you were striving for "the Best Bagwell" available I offered you a jersey from a source in California, but I later decided to hold that one as it came with provenance and a picture of Bagwell handing the jersey to the person. I then offered you another jersey with a "thick" autograph. I gave you two options and gave you the choice. You chose the one you ended up with. I did tell you I preferred the thinner autographed jersey as it matched my Biggio and Berkman 2003 jerseys. Strange how neglect to mention that!

I am not sure why the autograph faded, but if it did it is due to mishandling. I give a 7 day retrun policy on all items sold.

In regard to my website, as many people know, I had not updated my site in over 1 year. I have been experimenting with a total revamp. I deleted a lot of items that were no longer for sale. In my opinion, the Sam bat does have "light use." Bagwell had prepared the bat for use with his #5 on the knob and there are bat rack marks. I see nothing wrong with the description.

[flaco1801]

Re: Buyer Beware: Sticky Residue and Use Added to Bagwell Bat

REMARKABLE the man buys a brand new bat on ebay and has the nerve to sell it on his website for that much of a profit,hoping people will believe it came from his astros sources..... throw this guy off the site it just reeks of dishonesty.... i see this is not the first time items have been altered.... i hope this is grounds for dismissal or is im sorry enough so this can happen a third time?