Cal Ripken Jr. Game Used Rochester Redwing Bat 1981

[ripkengamers]

LOOKS LIKE MR. BUSHING IS GIVING UP A PRIZED POSSESSION!

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/site/bidplace.aspx?itemid=4700#pic

[ironmanfan]

While I'm not questioning the item's authenticity, I think it's interesting to note that the earliest ship date of the bat was 08/06/81 and since Cal was recalled from Rochester to the big club on 08/08/81 (the auction description incorrectly states that Cal was called up in September), I'm wondering if this bat saw any action in AAA at all? Could Jr. have brought it south with him to Charm City? Food for thought, thats all.....For my money I prefer the one in my collection (M110 model) with a ship date of March of that year.

[kingjammy24]

When most people consign their items to an auction house, their items are authenticated for the auction house by either an in-house or third party authenticator. This is obviously done for reasons of impartiality. It's nonsense to have consigners authenticating their own items as it's a clear conflict of interest.

In this case, Dave Bushing's bat has solely been authenticated by Dave Bushing.

If I consigned a jersey to Robert Edwards, would they auction it off solely with my own personal LOA? My guess is probably not. My item, along with all of the others, would have go to through an impartial authenticator.

"In the course of private transactions outside of those conducting by auction houses MEARS has been retained to support, MEARS employees may not submit items to MEARS for evaluation for the purpose of obtaining a letter of opinion."

MEARS will not write LOOs for items belonging to their employees. Rightfully so. However, why is this only limited to private, non-auction transactions?

Rudy.

[trsent]

Rudy, I do not understand. Why do you make issues each time with people who are associated with authentication services authenticating items they are selling themselves?

They are standing behind the item with their letter, what is the issue? You have a "conflict of interest" clause in your brain, but when it comes to a bat, I would want Dave Bushing's signature on the letter before anyone else's, even if the item belonged to him personally.

If you don't like the practice, don't bid on the item, otherwise, what is the issue?

[suave1477]

Trsent I have to agree with both of you but King Jammy makes a highly valid point. It would be best to have a third party authenticator to do it bcuz it leaves no thought of impartiality on the item.

I mean seriously just as KingJammy said can I Authenticate my own items and write an LOA for an auction house NOOOOOOO.

So this leaves room for David Bushing ( I am not saying he is doing it ) to falsefy fake stuff just to make a few extra bucks.

That is the reality of it.

To be honest the only person I would come close to trusting to authenticate his own stuff would be Barry Halper and he's no longer with us. RIP

[hblakewolf]

Rudy, I do not understand. Why do you make issues each time with people who are associated with authentication services authenticating items they are selling themselves?

They are standing behind the item with their letter, what is the issue? You have a "conflict of interest" clause in your brain, but when it comes to a bat, I would want Dave Bushing's signature on the letter before anyone else's, even if the item belonged to him personally.

If you don't like the practice, don't bid on the item, otherwise, what is the issue?

Joel:
Although Dave may know quite a bit on bats, how can you possibly make this statement and exclude true experts such as John Taube, Vince Malta and Mike Specht? Would you really desire a LOA from Bushing over these folks?:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[trsent]

Joel:
Although Dave may know quite a bit on bats, how can you possibly make this statement and exclude true experts such as John Taube, Vince Malta and Mike Specht? Would you really desire a LOA from Bushing over these folks?:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:


Let me see, I have personally known Dave Bushing for over 17 years, I do not personally know John Taube, Vince Malta or Mike Specht so I would trust Dave over these names. I do understand that they are all known in the bat community, but that doesn't mean Dave should be criticized for using his own company to write a letter of opinion for an item he owns - HE IS STANDING BEHIND HIS OWN ITEM WITH A LETTER FROM A COMPANY HE IS INVOLVED WITH.

I find that terrific that he has the confidence in his items to stand behind them like that!

[suave1477]

Trsent thats great that you had a relationship with David for 17 years but your missing the big point The Rest of the Hobby world does not have a relationship with him for 17 years. I hate to burst your bubble, I know you consider yourself to be the Soul of the Hobby World but you are not and as other would like to make purchases of Game Used items Authenticating your own doesnt quite sit well with others.

Again as I mentioned before you always need Big Brother looking over your shoulder to verify the next person is doing the right thing.

Otherwise no one would ever buy cars bcuz if the goverment did not have safety standards, All car companys could pass crappy cars and say "Oh becuz we say so its a safe car" Who would question Ford the inventors of the first car, why would you question them since they have been around for so long - sorry it doesnt work like that

Trsent I am not arguing with you just making a point thats all.

[trsent]

Trsent thats great that you had a relationship with David for 17 years but your missing the big point The Rest of the Hobby world does not have a relationship with him for 17 years. I hate to burst your bubble, I know you consider yourself to be the Soul of the Hobby World but you are not and as other would like to make purchases of Game Used items Authenticating your own doesnt quite sit well with others.

Again as I mentioned before you always need Big Brother looking over your shoulder to verify the next person is doing the right thing.

Otherwise no one would ever buy cars bcuz if the goverment did not have safety standards, All car companys could pass crappy cars and say "Oh becuz we say so its a safe car" Who would question Ford the inventors of the first car, why would you question them since they have been around for so long - sorry it doesnt work like that

Trsent I am not arguing with you just making a point thats all.

Jason, sorry, you are wrong. I am not upset, but I'll tell you what, I don't wish to debate with you anymore on these forums. It is a waste of time for me at this point of my life. I enjoy conversations that can lead to a conclusion with people who are buying and selling items such as those I have experience with in the past.

From now on, you have your discussions, I'll have mine, but if you wish to communicate with me, please do it via email. My email is posted in every post I make on these forums. I do not wish to publicly debate with you anymore.

The statements you made above validate my point. You want to waste our time comparing a baseball bat authenticated by an expert to a car manufacture selling a car? Please, I don't need this.

Let me make one thing clear, I know Dave Bushing, but who cares about the other authenticators for this debate? If Dave writes a letter to stand behind an item he owns, who cares if he submits to an auction house for the purpose of sale? At least he is standing behind his item.

If you don't like this practice, don't bid, but I can tell you that Dave is not intentionally authenticating any items that he feels are not genuine.

[MSpecht]

Just for clarification, here are the documented H & B factory records for Cal Ripken, Jr, for those who may be looking to add this bat to their collection. The auction description is accurate as far as it goes in stating the shipping records, but is incomplete.

Here are the documented orders and shipping dates for Model P72 bats with Hickory Finish that have length and weight perimeters that could match the offered bat (the *ed orders are the ones mentioned in the auction write-up):

3/19/81 P72 35 inches / 33 ounces Hickory 6 bats
8/06/81* P72 35 / 34 Hickory 6 bats RochesterBBC


Note: as indicated in a previous post, Ripken was called up to Baltimore in August, 1981 and played his first Major League game on August 10, 1981.


9/02/81 P72 35 / 34 Hickory 12 bats Balt Orioles
10/20/81*P72 35 / 34 Hickory 18 bats BB Miscell
2/12//82 P72 35 / 34 15 bats Balt Orioles
4/19/82 P72 35 / 34 Hickory 12 bats Balt Orioles



My personal opinion is that this is a quality bat that is what it is stated to be. Given the extensive amount of use and the Number 5 in vintage marker on the knob, I would opine that it is likely from the March 19, 1981 order (with moderate weight gain possibly due to storage conditions) and was used extensively through the early part of the 1981 Rochester season. If the bat was part of the August 6, 1981 order, it would have had to follow Ripken to Baltimore and been used extensively in August and September at the Major League level. If that were the case, I believe it is likely that Ripken would have over-written a Number 8 over the Number 5 on the knob (even though according to Baseball Almanac, there was no Number 5 on the Oriole roster in 1981). Most likely, the August order would not have caught up with Ripken until he was already in Baltimore, and those bats would have been marked with Number 8 from the beginning.

As has been stated on this site many times before, do your own homework and decide what is PROBABLE as opposed to what is POSSIBLE (or impossible). In this instance I would be very comfortable with this bat in my personal collection and would believe that the probability is that the bat is from the documented H & B order shipped on 3/19/81 as opposed to H & B order # 988399 shipped on 8/6/81.

Good Luck to all you Ripken fans in this auction.

Mike

[suave1477]

Joel all I have to say is your a real Class Act.

Joel at this point I see your not a person of reason and thise discussions we are really not that serious to where we have to discuss it through emails its just a matter of talking thats all.

Joel it was a pleasure meeting you through this forum!!!

[ironmanfan]

Thanks for the missing information Mike.

Actually, #5 was obviously Brooks Robinson's retired number.

Could you possibly list Cal's M110 hickory bat orders from '81 as well?

[MSpecht]

Good call on Brooks' Retired Number ... I guess that just shows how you can get fixated on researching one aspect of an item and completely blank out on something basic like that....I guess there probably wasn't any Number 3 on the Yankee roster in 1981 either, huh ?

Here's the info on ALL documented orders of Ripken Model M110 from 1978 through 9/18/2001, including the 1980-1983 labeling period:

10/30/78 M110 34.5 / 32 Natural Finish 2 bats
04/02/80 M110 35 / 33 Natural 6
05/01/80 M110 35 / 33 Natural 6
07/15/80 M110 35 / 34 Natural 3

If I can help with any apsects of your specific bat as references above, let me know at Jackitout7@aol.com

Mike