What does Game Issued really mean

[NEFAN]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Wes-Welker-2009-NE-Patriots-Pro-Bowl-game-issued-jersey_W0QQitemZ270338699338QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_ SM_Fan_Shop?hash=item270338699338&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A10%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

What does "Game Issued" really mean. IMHOP it means issued to a player for game use then not worn. Maybe "Game Spec." or something like that is more appropriate for this type of product. There are so many of these Probowl jerseys out there from many years, and these 09's have been on auction all week and the game hasn't been played yet.

Am I off base on this? I'm not faulting the seller, they are nice and he has the "Make Offer" option. I'm just wondering what others think.

[jv225]

That seller has a few Cowboys jerseys I saw the other day. When I saw them my thoughts were the same as yours. I mean how can these be "game issued" if they were sent to him directly from the factory like he says?

[WadeInBmore]

I know u are talking football, however when it comes to baseball MLB authenticated items that are listed as team issued and not game used normally means an MLB representative was not around for the game the jersey was used and therefore give it the possibly less desired title. I've seen s1, s2, and s3 jerseys listed as issued and the MLB database shows these jerseys added at the end of the season in bulk. I don't know if anyone else has observed such labeling, or if anyone disagrees but that's just my two cents.

Wade

[flaco1801]

i think it depends on who owns the shirts.... the sellers calls them game issued and the buyer may recieve game ready....

[David]

I always interpreted game issued to mean game used except for the game use. If a player was given four bats-- they sat in his locker, etc-- and used only three of them, the fourth was game issued. I remember the head of a team clubhouse head for an All-Star game got some All-Star bats literally from the player's lockers. He said they were bats the player's received for the game but didn't use, so they were labelled as game issued.

[David]

My interpretation is that a game issues/player issued/team issued item has to at least be traceable physically to the team or organization. Perhaps the player never got the jersey in his hand, but it at least was in the possession of the team or stadium or locker room attendant and was made and shipped for the player or team to use in games. If Rawlings made 50 game bats for Ken Griffey Jr and shipped them to the stadium, Griffey may not have used or even liked the specifications of them all, but they were all game issued-- issued for Griffey's use in games. To me, a key is the bats were specifically made for and meant for Griffey, and were physically shipped to the stadium.

In short, my interpretation would be that game issed items have to have been in the possesion of the player, team, stadium, organization, player's trainer, coach or similar team entity.

[David]

One last point. Issue literally means to give out. Game issue means the item was given out for the game. Player issue means it was given to or for the player. Team issue means it was given out to the team.

Thus, for something to be issued it has to be physically given out or transferred. This supports the theory that game issued had to have been given (issued) to the player, team or similar entity-- otherwise, it wasn't issued.

"The soldiers were issued their dress uniforms."

"The deputies were issued their badges" : The deputies were physically handed their badges. The deputies couldn't have been issued their badges if they never got them. If the badge factory never sent the badges to the police department, the badges were never deputy issued.

[larry bourget]

I know u are talking football, however when it comes to baseball MLB authenticated items that are listed as team issued and not game used normally means an MLB representative was not around for the game the jersey was used and therefore give it the possibly less desired title. I've seen s1, s2, and s3 jerseys listed as issued and the MLB database shows these jerseys added at the end of the season in bulk. I don't know if anyone else has observed such labeling, or if anyone disagrees but that's just my two cents.

Wade

As with MLB I totally agree, the BLUE JAYS have obvious game used set 1 and set 2 jerseys Authenticated as Issue because they were not Authenticated by MLB until late October. Players/Coaches have been long gone by then.

LB

[NEFAN]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cincinnati-Bengals-Willie-Anderson-game-cut-jersey_W0QQitemZ380102062494QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_0?hash=item380102062494&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A10%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

I like "Game Cut" better.

[jppopma]

If I am looking at something that is listed as "game issued", the first thing that I think of is WHY is the item game issued. I have no problem with game issued jerseys for 40 man players who don't get the call, "cup" players who don't wear both home/away, later set numbers on players with season ending injuries, or a playoff set jersey for a team that blew it in the end. To me, those are true game issued jerseys with a good story behind them. They also have a direct link to the team to back it all up.

On the other hand, the term is getting way overused both by sellers as well as teams looking to make extra cash by having 3-4 sets of gamers, and then 7 more "issued" sets. I often question a seller using the term game issued when it may just be a pro-cut or authentic...but then again, what's stopping them from claiming game used.

MLB is the exception where they claim game issued if the team presents them with the jersey, but they do not see it in person. Alot of good game worn jerseys are listed this way.

In the end, I guess the best bet is to look at the totallity of the item and see just what is behind the game issued term.

[trsent]

Previous discussion about this topic.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=3656

[trsent]

I liked my previous post in the thread below, so I will post it again:

I believe the problem with the "game issued" argument is people want to believe that all game issued jerseys were sitting in the locker room ready to be used but weren't.

Needless to say, this would be great in a perfect world, but it is not realistic. eBay sellers will label items as "game issued" if they are the same tagging as one worn in a game.

This means that a 1992-1993 Michael Jordan "pro cut" jersey will continued to be sold as "game issued" because the tagging is the same as the jersey that Michael wore in a game in 1992-1993.

I believe the problem is that the "game issued" jerseys we are discussing are the same as the old salesmen samples that used to surface but the terminology has changed how they are sold which I cannot see changing anytime soon.

Since eBay dictates such a high percentage of the market, sellers will not stop using the term "game issued" for jerseys tagged identically as "game used" so maybe the term needs to be defined more broadly?

[David]

The word issued is a clear cut term. If it wasn't issued to the player it wasn't player issued. Issued means physically handed out or given. The only legitimate leeway I see is if the player himself didn't physically handle the item, but it was intended for the player was handled the team, player trainer, clubhouse attendee or such-- in other words, very close and official proximity to the player.

[nyjetsfan14]

Try making sense out of recent Pro Bowl jerseys! I tried communicating with an e-Bay seller about how the jerseys they were selling could be game issued jerseys when they never go to the player but straight to the seller in sizes 48 AND 52 only for each player?! No player specs, customizations, etc..., never intended to be possessed by the player or equipment guys, yet listed as "issued" jerseys at significant prices. The profit on those must be enormous.

[nyjetsfan14]

Try making sense out of recent Pro Bowl jerseys! I tried communicating with an e-Bay seller about how the jerseys they were selling could be game issued jerseys when they never go to the player but straight to the seller in sizes 48 AND 52 only for each player?! No player specs, customizations, etc..., never intended to be possessed by the player or equipment guys, yet listed as "issued" jerseys at significant prices. The profit on those must be enormous.


http://cgi.ebay.com/Kurt-Warner-2009-Cardinals-pro-cut-Pro-Bowl-game-jersey_W0QQitemZ280310724899QQihZ018QQcategoryZ868 29QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[commando]

Try as we may, it seems we'll never stop fools from parting with their money. All I can say is if you collect newer pro jerseys that you want to prove are the real deal (player worn or team issued), you'd better have oen of these:

a) Letter of provenance from the team, or from a person whose reputation actually means something to other collectors

b) Video or photo match showing a unique characteristic of the item, not just a "style match"

c) a convincing story about how you know someone who has contacts with the league, and they were nice enough to sell or give you this fine item that looks no different than the ten others currently being sold on eBay

[trsent]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Kurt-Warner-2009-Cardinals-pro-cut-Pro-Bowl-game-jersey_W0QQitemZ280310724899QQihZ018QQcategoryZ868 29QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Their description, word for word:

This is the 7th straight year that I will be selling these very limited jerseys. People who have bought from me in the past know that they are buying a 100% REAL jersey and not a cheap knock off from CHINA.

Kurt Warner #13 2009 Arizona Cardinals NFC game issued/pro cut PRO BOWL jersey. Brand new design by Reebok for the 2009 Pro Bowl. Reebok jersey. Your Choice size 48 +4" L.B. or Size 52 +4" L.B. These are obtained thru an NFL source and are shipped to me straight from the factory in Berlin, WI. 100% Authentic real deal jersey.

So the issue is that you do not like the sub-title that reads: "Game Issued!!"

I personally understand the listing. The seller has the same jerseys made in Wisconsin that the players wear. If you believe the jerseys to be "Game Issued" they must be at the game, then do not buy them. No one has proved that "Game Issued" has to be sitting in a locker room, it is just what the buyer wants, while the seller wants to believe it is the same style jersey worn by the player. The seller says they come right from the factory, so he is clear in his description that they never hit the locker room.

Finally, what makes you think their profits are "enormous"? I was offered to buy these jerseys years and years ago, and they are being sold for quite a bit of money wholesale since they are the real things.

I have said it before I will state it again: Everyone can have their own definition of what "team issued", "game issued", "game ready" or "game style" means - You can dream that they all mean the item was found in the locker room, but the sellers will continue to use the terms in their favor.

The jerseys you question are game issued jerseys without any alterations - Look at them. They are the same jerseys shipped to Hawaii for the Pro Bowl, tagged exactly as the game jerseys will be tagged. The seller is not abusing anyone with the term "Game Issued" especially since they make it clear in their description that the jerseys were shipped to him directly from Berlin, WI.

[nyjetsfan14]

Their description, word for word:

This is the 7th straight year that I will be selling these very limited jerseys. People who have bought from me in the past know that they are buying a 100% REAL jersey and not a cheap knock off from CHINA.

Kurt Warner #13 2009 Arizona Cardinals NFC game issued/pro cut PRO BOWL jersey. Brand new design by Reebok for the 2009 Pro Bowl. Reebok jersey. Your Choice size 48 +4" L.B. or Size 52 +4" L.B. These are obtained thru an NFL source and are shipped to me straight from the factory in Berlin, WI. 100% Authentic real deal jersey.

So the issue is that you do not like the sub-title that reads: "Game Issued!!"

I personally understand the listing. The seller has the same jerseys made in Wisconsin that the players wear. If you believe the jerseys to be "Game Issued" they must be at the game, then do not buy them. No one has proved that "Game Issued" has to be sitting in a locker room, it is just what the buyer wants, while the seller wants to believe it is the same style jersey worn by the player. The seller says they come right from the factory, so he is clear in his description that they never hit the locker room.

Finally, what makes you think their profits are "enormous"? I was offered to buy these jerseys years and years ago, and they are being sold for quite a bit of money wholesale since they are the real things.

I have said it before I will state it again: Everyone can have their own definition of what "team issued", "game issued", "game ready" or "game style" means - You can dream that they all mean the item was found in the locker room, but the sellers will continue to use the terms in their favor.

The jerseys you question are game issued jerseys without any alterations - Look at them. They are the same jerseys shipped to Hawaii for the Pro Bowl, tagged exactly as the game jerseys will be tagged. The seller is not abusing anyone with the term "Game Issued" especially since they make it clear in their description that the jerseys were shipped to him directly from Berlin, WI.

Please stop telling me what I like or don't like. Please stop putting words in my text. I never claimed "abuse" as you state. Out of respect to you and the rest of the forum I never reply to any of your posts. I have blocked your e-mail address after you sent what I felt was an unsolicited harrassing message using your trademark first and last name trick without reporting you to the forum moderators. I ask that you respect all that and refrain from taking a simple post and twisting it so you can start another one of your rants. Nothing personal because I know nothing of you personally but I desire to have no interaction with you on any level and I go out of my way to avoid your posts...please do the same with me and we can cordially avoid and spare the rest of the forum members from going through this again. Thanks in advance for your understanding and moderators if you view this please feel free to take any actions necessary to stop this.

[aeneas01]

Try making sense out of recent Pro Bowl jerseys! I tried communicating with an e-Bay seller about how the jerseys they were selling could be game issued jerseys when they never go to the player but straight to the seller in sizes 48 AND 52 only for each player?! No player specs, customizations, etc..., never intended to be possessed by the player or equipment guys, yet listed as "issued" jerseys at significant prices. The profit on those must be enormous.

the ebay descriptions make perfect sense to me - i mean the jerseys were never intended to be used in the pro bowl, were never shipped to hawaii, were never issued to either pro bowl team, let alone to any player, and are not offered in player-specific customizations so of course the ebay seller would use such phrases as "...pro bowl game jersey" and "nfc game issued jersey" in his lot descriptions!


Try as we may, it seems we'll never stop fools from parting with their money. All I can say is if you collect newer pro jerseys that you want to prove are the real deal (player worn or team issued), you'd better have oen of these:

a) Letter of provenance from the team, or from a person whose reputation actually means something to other collectors

b) Video or photo match showing a unique characteristic of the item, not just a "style match"

c) a convincing story about how you know someone who has contacts with the league, and they were nice enough to sell or give you this fine item that looks no different than the ten others currently being sold on eBay.

sounds like pretty solid advice.


Please stop telling me what I like or don't like. Please stop putting words in my text. I never claimed "abuse" as you state. Out of respect to you and the rest of the forum I never reply to any of your posts. I have blocked your e-mail address after you sent what I felt was an unsolicited harrassing message using your trademark first and last name trick without reporting you to the forum moderators. I ask that you respect all that and refrain from taking a simple post and twisting it so you can start another one of your rants. Nothing personal because I know nothing of you personally but I desire to have no interaction with you on any level and I go out of my way to avoid your posts...please do the same with me and we can cordially avoid and spare the rest of the forum members from going through this again. Thanks in advance for your understanding and moderators if you view this please feel free to take any actions necessary to stop this.

very nicely put my friend. typical to many forums, some posters feel the need to be recognized as the final word in a matter, on a topic, and will harangue those that choose to ignore them - as if this would validate their point of view. alas...

speaking of "game issued", i've noticed that the term "game issue" (no "d") is popular with many sellers of reproduction football helmets. because these sellers feel their reproductions are "identical" to what is worn on the field, they argue that they are using the term in the same manner as "army issue". but as i've said in other posts, there is one reason and one reason only these sort of sellers use this term - to artificially inflate the value of items that are in fact reproductions. if an item originates from the same manufacturer that supplies the pros, if it's dressed, tagged, cut and/or fitted in the same manner as the pros, it's still not a "game issued" item unless it was purchased and distributed to a player by the team. at least that's mho.

...

[trsent]

Please stop telling me what I like or don't like. Please stop putting words in my text. I never claimed "abuse" as you state. Out of respect to you and the rest of the forum I never reply to any of your posts. I have blocked your e-mail address after you sent what I felt was an unsolicited harrassing message using your trademark first and last name trick without reporting you to the forum moderators. I ask that you respect all that and refrain from taking a simple post and twisting it so you can start another one of your rants. Nothing personal because I know nothing of you personally but I desire to have no interaction with you on any level and I go out of my way to avoid your posts...please do the same with me and we can cordially avoid and spare the rest of the forum members from going through this again. Thanks in advance for your understanding and moderators if you view this please feel free to take any actions necessary to stop this.

What emails are you accusing me of sending you?

I replied to a public post on a public forum. You can take it however you read it but I made my points and instead of being an adult and discussing my concerns, you attack me because you know you are wrong and abusive of the seller who has listed his item in an honest and mature fashion.

Again - What email did I send you that should have been reported to anyone? I didn't offer to sell you anything, as I do not email people to sell them items, so what did I do - Please be a man and elaborate.

Maybe I emailed you about a previous attack on me because every time there is a topic being discussed you take my posts as attacks and not discussions. Real men can discuss topics without such repeat attacks to the discussion.