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View Full Version : Curator, Collector or Hustler?



aeneas01
02-06-2009, 02:44 AM
just finished reading an interesting 1974 sports illustrated article that featured joel platt and his tremendous sports memorabilia collection. the thing is, i didn't find it to be the feel good story i had expected - instead i found platt's story to be another example of suspended morality for the sake of, and quest for, sports memorabilia.

platt has been collecting sports memorabilia for decades. however platt no longer considers himself a collector - he considers himself a curator and has been trying to fund a state-of-the-art sports museum for the three decades. in fact, according to sports illustrated, platt considers collectors to be "...bedbugs, generally lacking in the social graces and having innate personality defects." this seems to be an odd characterization given the arguably questionable lengths platt has gone to in order to obtain rare sports collectibles - from sports illustrated:

"On a trip to California a few years ago Platt made the important contacts that have led to his fondest acquisitions, a wealth of memorabilia left by Thorpe. Earlier he had called on Thorpe's daughter, Grace, in Pearl River, N.Y. She had refused to come to the door. He had talked to hundreds of people in the Pennsylvania towns of Carlisle and Jim Thorpe for information on the great Sac and Fox Indian. Finally the trail led to Cabazon, Calif., where Thorpe's third wife, Patricia, was living in a trailer and caring for retarded indigents. That first visit and several subsequent ones failed to interest Mrs. Thorpe in contributing to (Platt's) future museum. Then, out of the blue three years later, a telegram arrived on Orion Drive. It said simply, "Am confined to bed. Come and get Jim's things." Joel Platt did.

more from sports illustrated regarding platt's "bonanza trips":

"When Platt was 16, he made a trip to New York and located the apartments of Mrs. Babe Ruth and Mrs. John McGraw. Boldly he marched to their doors, introduced himself and announced his plans to build a sports museum someday. To Mrs. Ruth he presented a wooden ashtray he had carved to resemble the Babe. She in turn came across with a bat and plaque. Mrs. McGraw furnished a unique autograph—her husband's canceled check made out in 1923 to the IRS for an amount of more than $4,000. Enough "bonanza trips," of this type, as he calls them, soon followed that Platt became convinced he had a sound formula: encounter the quarry unannounced. "If I call ahead or write that I'm coming, people have a way of avoiding me," Platt says. "If I get them eyeball-to-eyeball and they see the sincerity in what I'm doing, they believe in me." Seeing Platt's wife Marcia eyeball-to-eyeball also has been the clincher for some gifts, such as those acquired on a journey to the Lwesiburg, Pa. home of Mrs. Christy Mathewson. Platt, by himself, was turned away at the door while the pitcher's aged widow was having tea, so when he returned an hour later he brought his wife along. This time Mrs. Mathewson was willing to read Platt's brochure and the story of his accidental burning. It evoked emotional memories of her own son who had died in a fiery crash."

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1089275/1/index.htm

while the scope of platt's success in obtaining such a large collection is unique, his story and m.o. isn't. in fact i've recently spoken to a couple of vets in the industry that have shared almost identical stories - road trips back in the day, many unannounced, to homes of retired players, even hall of famers, in order to (ultimately) raid any coffers that might remain, that might be worth raiding. i guess it could be argued that widows and ex-stars got something out of these visits as well - at least some that have shared these stories with me have tried to sell me on this notion. what they got, i'm told, was a visit from a fawning fan that was eager to listen to war stories from yesteryear, a visit from someone willing to spend the day in the ex-star's basement or attic reminiscing over the glory years. while i'm certain this may have indeed be flattering and even fun for an ex-athlete, i'm sure the thousands of dollars in memorabilia the visitor eventually left with would have been of equal interest, equally fun for the ex-athlete, had they been aware of its value on the open market.

in platt's case, and in the case of a couple of other guys i'm familiar with, it seems that many of the items they obtained were either "donated" or "contributed" by the athlete or the athlete's family with the understanding that the items would become part of a larger (perhaps "important") collection. in short, i believe the large collections "card" worked well.

i guessed it could be argued that sports fans are better off because of the efforts of folks like platt - that if it were not for platt and other treasure hunters like him some of these irreplaceable gems might have very well been lost for ever. and i can see this. but by the same token i don't think i will ever be able to comfortably reconcile something like the thorpe widow giving away a small fortune in historical memorabilia, especially given her circumstances, to someone that apparently understood its value.

as i mentioned earlier, joel platt has been trying to fund a state-of-the-art sports memorabilia museum and entertainment complex for the last three decades (he currently operates out of a building in florida). needless to say this would be quite a destination given that joel pratt clearly has one of the most incredible sports collections on the planet. hopefully it will get done some day - more information regarding this project, "sports immortals", can be found here:

http://www.sportsimmortals.com/index.html


speaking of joel pratts' collection, it reminded me of a recent heritage auction which featured, according to heritage, "...the only Jim Thorpe (1912) game used material ever to surface from his days with the Carlisle Indians." i guess joel pratt would argue heritage's claim given that his collection also features game used gear from thorpe's 1912 days with the carlisle indians...


heritage auction - the "only" 1912 jim thorpe game used material ever to surface from his days with the carlisle indians:


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/aeneas1/z1.jpg
http://sports.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=709&Lot_No=19835&ic=Left-FeaturedItemMain-071107#Photo#


joel platt collection - 1912 jim thorpe game used gear:


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/aeneas1/z2.jpg
http://www.sportsimmortals.com/thumb.cfm?ID=133&category=11&startrow=9


and, guess what, yet another unitas helmet (i've lost count) - pratt collection.


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/aeneas1/z3.jpg
http://www.sportsimmortals.com/thumb.cfm?ID=68&category=11&startrow=1

...

frikativ54
02-06-2009, 05:12 AM
I was getting ready for bed, and then I saw this post and had to respond. I just don't know who these collectors think they are that they can barge into a player's personal residence unannounced and claim a guy's stuff as their own. I mean, I would never think of showing up on my favorite player's doorstep and asking for his prized possessions. I mean, who am I, Frik Zukor, to go up to an athlete and demand anything more than a photo, a signature, and a casual conversation? I have absolutely no significance to the player, other than being an enthusiast.

At some level, there's something wrong with those that have such an obsession with a talented stranger's life that they need to own every piece of his clothing! A few items are great, but once it reaches a certain level, you have to wonder why that person doesn't devote himself to actually achieving something in this world. I mean, what good does it do anybody to spend your life constantly pursuing somebody else? I sometimes wonder why people can't just live for themselves, meaning being their own all-stars in whatever they do. We all love sports, but none of our possessions will go into the grave with us; all that will be left is our achievements and reputations. And to put morality on the back burner for material gain is just wrong in my eyes.

Canseco44
02-06-2009, 09:10 AM
I will say I am not pleased with the way some of it was acquired, but on the other hand, WOW. This has got to be the greatest collection and maybe most significant collection ever put together. I was amazed when I looked through it. Simply unbelievable!

Todd

FastLane80
02-06-2009, 09:20 AM
I too am amazed at what he has collected. Wow! I know there's a price for everything but some of those items could be considered priceless.
Mentioned in the article were his success stories but what I'd like to hear about are the times he was turned town and turned away empty handed. 1974 is a lot different than today and I can promise he would not only would he have the door shut in his face but he'd probably be arrested for either trespassing and/or harassment. Great thread though!

kingjammy24
02-06-2009, 11:56 AM
http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=15861

rudy.

sylbry
02-06-2009, 12:04 PM
I think you have to take a leap of faith to believe that these items are actually as described. Some items may be obvious such as jerseys and autographs but gloves? How can some relative of Gehrig's be sure it was his glove from 1927 or how can Mr. Pratt be sure his relative would actually give him the glove. And the Chapman ball? One thing I do know is his t206 Wagner is a reprint.

Quite frankly this guy is a fraud in my book. Using some non-existant museum story to get items from player's relatives for his own personal gain. Plus, if he was really interested in perserving memorabilia then why on earth did he allow the players to personalize the items to him. A couple of examples.

http://www.sportsimmortals.com/thumb.cfm?ID=116&category=11&startrow=5

http://www.sportsimmortals.com/thumb.cfm?ID=117&category=11&startrow=5

http://www.sportsimmortals.com/thumb.cfm?ID=118&category=11&startrow=5

http://www.sportsimmortals.com/thumb.cfm?ID=128&category=11&startrow=9

mvandor
02-06-2009, 12:18 PM
I think you have to take a leap of faith to believe that these items are actually as described. Some items may be obvious such as jerseys and autographs but gloves? How can some relative of Gehrig's be sure it was his glove from 1927 or how can Mr. Pratt be sure his relative would actually give him the glove. And the Chapman ball? One thing I do know is his t206 Wagner is a reprint.

Quite frankly this guy is a fraud in my book. Using some non-existant museum story to get items from player's relatives for his own personal gain. Plus, if he was really interested in perserving memorabilia then why on earth did he allow the players to personalize the items to him. A couple of examples.

http://www.sportsimmortals.com/thumb.cfm?ID=116&category=11&startrow=5

http://www.sportsimmortals.com/thumb.cfm?ID=117&category=11&startrow=5

http://www.sportsimmortals.com/thumb.cfm?ID=118&category=11&startrow=5

http://www.sportsimmortals.com/thumb.cfm?ID=128&category=11&startrow=9

The personalizations do go against the museum jive, no question. Sadly, most of the signatures and inscriptions are done in places and manners that virtually deface the items.

otismalibu
02-06-2009, 02:19 PM
Ever send an email to that website with a research request? No luck.

I've always got responses from the hoops HOF.

shoremen44
02-06-2009, 02:42 PM
I pesonally liked the video tour on the website with the sports museum designed right out of the late '70's...

hey maybe thats a collectable too

godwulf
02-06-2009, 02:57 PM
This is a macabre little item.

http://www.sportsimmortals.com/thumb.cfm?ID=151&category=8&startrow=33

When Mike Coolbaugh was killed awhile back, I did wonder briefly what had happened to that ball (not that I would want to own such a thing) and whether anyone would ever have the nerve (if that's the right word) to try to auction or sell it. The Chapman incident happened so long ago that I can see, perhaps, owning something like that without feeling too weird, but a relic from a Baseball death that occured within living memory - I don't think so. I hope that somebody had the good sense to destroy the ball that killed Mike, or bury it where it won't ever be found.

On the larger topic, the "...bedbugs, generally lacking in the social graces and having innate personality defects." quote is certainly...interesting, considering the source.

Yes, the world and the collector's market were certainly very different 35 years ago. Without eBay and the Internet generally, there was certainly less of a feeling among the general public that "everything is collectible to someone". I heard Joe Garagiola talking about the first time he ever saw a game-used bat for sale. It was a Pete Rose gamer, and the asking price was $15. He remembered thinking, "Who'd pay $15 for a broken baseball bat?"

kingjammy24
02-06-2009, 03:12 PM
This is a macabre little item...

i think i may have that one beat.. from an ESPN Magazine article about his collection:

"Just another day at the Sports Immortals Museum in Boca Raton, Fla., home to the greatest private collection of sports memorabilia in the universe. Proprietor Joel Platt has it all: Babe Ruth's hat and Shoeless Joe's bat. Ty Cobb's spikes and Evander Holyfield's ear ("Just a little piece I picked up off the canvas").."

a man reaches onto the canvas in order to retrieve the bloodied piece of another man's ear in order to put it in his "museum". how's that for "social graces"? too bad ASI wasn't there to slap a hologram on it.

rudy.

godwulf
02-06-2009, 06:00 PM
a man reaches onto the canvas in order to retrieve the bloodied piece of another man's ear in order to put it in his "museum". how's that for "social graces"? too bad ASI wasn't there to slap a hologram on it.

It's since been authenticated by PSA/DNA, no doubt. :rolleyes:

kingjammy24
02-06-2009, 06:16 PM
it seems like everyone these days is opening up their own sports museum so it's high time i realize my dream as well. at the tender age of 4, i had a religious experience in which the ghost of tony fernandez appeared before me and told me i must gather 2 of every blue jays jersey in existance and open a museum. behold, the first physical prototype for the "Blue Jays Immortals Megalopolis":

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/9007/silly1wz0.jpg

(* does not convey full grandiose stature due to the fact that i had to use graham crackers.)

here is an artist's concept of how it will look when i open it on 165 acres of the finest Bahamian property:
http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/1382/silly2qx1.jpg
Ownership: 100% me
Funding: 100% you
Source of collection: destitute widows of former players. have just purchased a 1974 el camino expressly for these travels. Have named it the "Carpetbagger Cruiser". have replaced the hood ornament with a silouette of an elderly widow in crosshairs.

for those of you concerned that i may be ripping some folks off here, let me assure you that i'm actually paying for these items via gifts i've made. for example, when i finally procure josh gibson's 1937 homestead grays jersey, i will in turn give his family a picture of josh that i've glued to some plywood (or particle board. whatever's on sale at home depot that week).

rudy.

kingjammy24
02-06-2009, 06:27 PM
here's platt on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFK7exiZJdA

in exchange for these items, platt actually offered the players a picture of themselves on plywood. just what they always wanted. plywood. platt spared no expense.

nolan ryan - "here's my 1966 rookie shirt. it's the only one i have."
platt - "thanks! here's you on some plywood! enjoy!"

rudy.

Rob L
02-06-2009, 06:28 PM
Platt sold off some of his memorabilia a couple of years ago. Anyone have some of it? I have a Reggie Jackson jersey that came from Platt's collection.

yanks12025
02-06-2009, 06:34 PM
I agree with some of you. I think he is a joke, going to players house's and making them give you stuff.

godwulf
02-06-2009, 07:04 PM
I agree with some of you. I think he is a joke, going to players house's and making them give you stuff.

I agree - better to do something far less odd and intrusive. Wait till they put their trash cans out, take their garbage home, and make collage-type action portraits of the player from his own and his family's refuse. Let's keep this whole being a fan thing on a high plane. :D

sylbry
02-06-2009, 07:27 PM
He is no fool. He understands that if given the items, the owner can ask for them back at any time and he must give them back. By giving the owner some trinket in return, it has become a completed transaction under contract law and he is now the rightful owner of the items.

However I would imagine he has some tax obligations he never fulfilled.

This guy gives me respect for Alan "Mr. Mint" Rosen. At least Mr. Mint is invited to their house and he pays for the cards or memorabilia in cash.

Bernie Madoff would be proud of Mr. Pratt.

kingjammy24
02-06-2009, 07:54 PM
in all seriousness, i don't think there's anything wrong simply with the idea of approaching a player or their estate and proposing an equitable deal for game-used items, as long as it's done politely and honestly. i've done it and in each instance i've offered market or above-market rates. i've never personally accosted people. i've only used email and/or snail mail and if they indicated they weren't interested then i moved on. i always told them the truth that i was a collector looking for items for my personal collection.

i think the issues here are platt's m.o. he intentionally accosts people unannounced, because, as he puts it, it makes it harder for them to avoid him. he seems to have more in common with a process server than a collector. in some cases, it doesn't even seem like he offers much in return other than some pie-in-the-sky story about a museum that he's been trying to build for the past 35+ years. donate your item, to my personal collection, and one day it'll be in a museum! i think robert hit the nail on the head when he described it as a suspension of morality for the sake of personal collecting. the whole thing has the stench of a late night infomercial complete with bombastic claims.

rudy.

xpress34
02-06-2009, 09:04 PM
I agree - better to do something far less odd and intrusive. Wait till they put their trash cans out, take their garbage home, and make collage-type action portraits of the player from his own and his family's refuse. Let's keep this whole being a fan thing on a high plane. :D

GW -

FUNNY THING... life imitating art... Have you ever been to the Nike Campus in Beaverton, OR? More specifically, the Nolan Ryan building?

The reason I ask is you could see a piece done by this man (whose name escapes me currently!):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v738/xpress34/NolanNike6-1.jpg

Who built THIS Nolan Ryan Statue from items in Nolan's garage and stuff he was going to throw out... ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v738/xpress34/NolanNike1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v738/xpress34/NolanNike8.jpg

Hope you enjoy it!!!

- Chris

cjw
02-06-2009, 09:36 PM
it seems like everyone these days is opening up their own sports museum so it's high time i realize my dream as well. at the tender age of 4, i had a religious experience in which the ghost of tony fernandez appeared before me and told me i must gather 2 of every blue jays jersey in existance and open a museum. behold, the first physical prototype for the "Blue Jays Immortals Megalopolis":

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/9007/silly1wz0.jpg

(* does not convey full grandiose stature due to the fact that i had to use graham crackers.)

here is an artist's concept of how it will look when i open it on 165 acres of the finest Bahamian property:
http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/1382/silly2qx1.jpg
Ownership: 100% me
Funding: 100% you
Source of collection: destitute widows of former players. have just purchased a 1974 el camino expressly for these travels. Have named it the "Carpetbagger Cruiser". have replaced the hood ornament with a silouette of an elderly widow in crosshairs.

for those of you concerned that i may be ripping some folks off here, let me assure you that i'm actually paying for these items via gifts i've made. for example, when i finally procure josh gibson's 1937 homestead grays jersey, i will in turn give his family a picture of josh that i've glued to some plywood (or particle board. whatever's on sale at home depot that week).

rudy.

Rudy..your post is great! Love the cracker-shack! I would like to be the first to pony up the $49.99 admission fee.:)

frikativ54
02-07-2009, 03:02 AM
GW -

FUNNY THING... life imitating art... Have you ever been to the Nike Campus in Beaverton, OR? More specifically, the Nolan Ryan building?

The reason I ask is you could see a piece done by this man (whose name escapes me currently!):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v738/xpress34/NolanNike6-1.jpg

Who built THIS Nolan Ryan Statue from items in Nolan's garage and stuff he was going to throw out... ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v738/xpress34/NolanNike1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v738/xpress34/NolanNike8.jpg

Hope you enjoy it!!!

- Chris

Chris,

That's absolutely sick! The first house I was taken home to as an infant was in Beaverton, OR. Now I go to school at Reed College here in Portland. Do they accept visitors and/or give public tours? I could make the trek there and then report back to you guys at GUU...

lund6771
02-07-2009, 06:19 AM
in some cases, it doesn't even seem like he offers much in return other than some pie-in-the-sky story about a museum that he's been trying to build for the past 35+ years. donate your item, to my personal collection, and one day it'll be in a museum! i think robert hit the nail on the head when he described it as a suspension of morality for the sake of personal collecting. the whole thing has the stench of a late night infomercial complete with bombastic claims.

rudy.


being in construction contracting, I would guess that this is EASILY a 50-100 million dollar project...and in Boca Roton, maybe even more

Hell will be freezing over before this thing is ever built

To me it's pretty obvious he is tricking athletes to donate these items to a museum that is never getting built....I wonder which auction house will get this "collection"

xpress34
02-07-2009, 08:09 AM
Chris,

That's absolutely sick! The first house I was taken home to as an infant was in Beaverton, OR. Now I go to school at Reed College here in Portland. Do they accept visitors and/or give public tours? I could make the trek there and then report back to you guys at GUU...

Les -

I'm not sure. I haven't worked for Nike since about 2004, so I don't know what their current policy is. I do know they use to have a Visitor Center and such... you could probably find a number for the Nike Campus from information and call them directly.

BTW - I believe the artist's name is Leo Sewell.

All the best -

Chris

Mr.3000
02-07-2009, 08:46 AM
GW -

FUNNY THING... life imitating art... Have you ever been to the Nike Campus in Beaverton, OR? More specifically, the Nolan Ryan building?

The reason I ask is you could see a piece done by this man (whose name escapes me currently!):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v738/xpress34/NolanNike6-1.jpg

Who built THIS Nolan Ryan Statue from items in Nolan's garage and stuff he was going to throw out... ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v738/xpress34/NolanNike1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v738/xpress34/NolanNike8.jpg

Hope you enjoy it!!!

- Chris




Looks like he built that shirt out of stuff Nolan was throwing away as well. :D