103 not named that tested positive for steroids...

[notxpensv4u]

Since Arod has came out and confessed and the rest of the names are sealed and maybe will never see the light of day we can only GUESS who's names are on that list. This is no way accusing anyone. Just throw out who you believe could be on that list....Put the next number as your guess is given such as
1. Alex Rodriguez
2. My pick is Pudge Rodriguez (Not so much "pudge" after steroid hype)

[Mr.3000]

Since Arod has came out and confessed and the rest of the names are sealed and maybe will never see the light of day we can only GUESS who's names are on that list. This is no way accusing anyone. Just throw out who you believe could be on that list....Put the next number as your guess is given such as
1. Alex Rodriguez
2. My pick is Pudge Rodriguez (Not so much "pudge" after steroid hype)


3. Babe Ruth

[Mr.3000]

In all seriousness, I don't even want to speculate because I truly do not care. It is what it is at this point.

[notxpensv4u]

MLB acts like the names are so private that the common baseball fan would not be able to tell who did and who didn't. I believe it was a tainted era as they tried to feed us that " The baseballs are juiced" . I am not dumb to the fact as I know the "true" fan will probably be close to naming close to all the players. I love baseball and hate to see it tarnished in any way.

[reed1216]

#4 Jose Reyes (Just kidding!)

[Mr.3000]

#4 Jose Reyes (Just kidding!)

You never know. Even small guys juice ;)

[suicide_squeeze]

Jeff Bagwell
Gary Sheffield
Jason Varitek
Mike Piazza
Jason Giambi
Jim Thome
Frank Thomas
Sammy Sosa
Pudge Rodriguez
Roger Clemens
Andy Pettitte
Corey Patterson
Milton Bradley

.......to name but a few

[schubert1970]

Jeff Bagwell
Gary Sheffield
Jason Varitek
Mike Piazza
Jason Giambi
Jim Thome
Frank Thomas
Sammy Sosa
Pudge Rodriguez
Roger Clemens
Andy Pettitte
Corey Patterson
Milton Bradley

.......to name but a few

I don't think Sheff should be on the list, remember he thought steroids could only go in your butt.

[schubert1970]

How about Brady Anderson??? That guy from the O's.....

[yanks12025]

Albert Pujols
David Ortiz
Manny Ramirez
Jason Varitek
and others.

[notxpensv4u]

1. Alex Rodriguez
2. Pudge Rodriguez
3.Jeff Bagwell
4.Gary Sheffield
5.Jason Varitek
6.Mike Piazza
7.Jason Giambi
8.Jim Thome
9.Frank Thomas
10.Sammy Sosa
11.Roger Clemens
12.Andy Pettitte
13.Corey Patterson
14.Milton Bradley
15.Brady Anderson added 3 more
16.Barry Bonds
17.Rafael Palmeiro
18.Miguel Tejada

[thomecollector]

Jeff Bagwell
Gary Sheffield
Jason Varitek
Mike Piazza
Jason Giambi
Jim Thome
Frank Thomas
Sammy Sosa
Pudge Rodriguez
Roger Clemens
Andy Pettitte
Corey Patterson
Milton Bradley

.......to name but a few
I doubt that Thome would be on the list . He has been a big boy for most
of his life. His whole family is a group of big guys. His old man is a softball legend in Illinois. Besides, His dad would kick his @$$.........

[notxpensv4u]

1. Alex Rodriguez
2. Pudge Rodriguez
3.Jeff Bagwell
4.Gary Sheffield
5.Jason Varitek
6.Mike Piazza
7.Jason Giambi
8.Jim Thome
9.Frank Thomas
10.Sammy Sosa
11.Roger Clemens
12.Andy Pettitte
13.Corey Patterson
14.Milton Bradley
15.Brady Anderson added 3 more
16.Barry Bonds
17.Rafael Palmeiro
18.Miguel Tejada(34 homeruns in 2002)
19.Albert Pujols(34 homeruns in 2002)
20.David Ortiz
21.Manny Ramirez(33 homeruns in 2002)
22.Jason Varitek
23.Magglio Ordonez(38 homeruns in 2002)
24.Jeff Kent(37 homeruns in 2002)
25.Andruw Jones(35 homeruns in 2002)
26.Pat Burrell (37 homeruns in 2002)
27.Eric Chavez (34 homeruns in 2002)
28.Scott Rolen (31 homeruns in 2002)
29.Troy Glaus (30 homeruns in 2002)
30. Chipper Jones (45 homeruns in 1999???)

[gingi79]

1-103....the idiots who were caught
104 to roughly 1000....those who weren't.

[Mr.3000]

1-103....the idiots who were caught
104 to roughly 1000....those who weren't.

LOL Perfect!

[notxpensv4u]

Sadly we as baseball fans are punished....The great baseball players of our time possibly could have went down as the best of ALL time now will have a cloud hanging over them.AROD and Bonds had talents beyond any current talents and that was just not good enough. I feel for the players who never made it to the majors who never used steroids and never saw the majors because of there morals.

[Rboitano]

I highly doubt Pujols ever used anything. If you throw him in then why not Manny?

[yanks12025]

Rboitano,
If you looked you would see that me and the other person who listed Pujols had also listed Manny.

[3arod13]

How about Brady Anderson??? That guy from the O's.....

Hit 50 HR's in 1996. Next highest in his career was 24 in in 1999.

[otismalibu]

Lance Armstrong.

[Mr.3000]

Lance Armstrong.


What position does he play and who drafted him?


:D

[notxpensv4u]

Luis Gonzalez (http://www.hrpace.com/?player=Luis_Gonzalez) 57 homeruns in 2001
and who could forget the power hitter
Shawn Green (http://www.hrpace.com/?player=Shawn_Green) 49 Homeruns in 2001
followed by
Todd Helton (http://www.hrpace.com/?player=Todd_Helton) 49 homeruns in 2001
all who seemed to go into history as power hitters?

[Lokee]

Albert (don't call me Joey) Belle.

[chakes89]

If Corey Patterson was jucing, he obviously wasn't doing something right

[5kRunner]

If Corey Patterson was jucing, he obviously wasn't doing something right

My thoughts exactly.

I don't think Frank Thomas juiced. Wasn't he one of the players pushing for testing before the league even discussed it?

[spartakid]

My thoughts exactly.

I don't think Frank Thomas juiced. Wasn't he one of the players pushing for testing before the league even discussed it?

It's a brilliant cover-up, reverse psychology :D JK

[gingi79]

I'll give you a better question, what player would you be most disappointed in if they used performance enhancers?

I'd go with John Smoltz, Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine and Chipper Jones.

If any of these 4 come up with a positive, I'd done with baseball. I don't mean it as a knee jerk reaction, I mean Baseball will no longer exist to me. If you see their names, everything I have will suddenly be for sale and cheap. (I am sure some people are no anxiously awaiting these positives lol)

I would laugh the hardest if David Eckstein came up positive. I'd believe the San Diego Chicken used steroids purchased from the Philly Phanatic first.

[notxpensv4u]

The most disappointed player I would be upset with would be Cal Ripken Jr. If he ever tested positive it would be a sad day for baseball. Also has anyone brought up the fact in the news it seems kinda funny that las week the heat was on Barry Bonds and his use. Why out of the blue AROD's name is brought up. Why not wait until the regular season? Don't forget Bonds trial is March 2nd.

[arl423]

I would be most dissapointed to find out that Albert Pujols, Nolan Ryan or Cal Ripken Jr used. Along with a few others but those would be my top 3.

[OaklandAsFan]

sheff already admitted to using at the least HGH in an SI article when he was working out with Bonds (good read if you want to see how wacked out Barroid really is)

I HIGHLY doubt Frank Thomas ever used steroids.

[flaco1801]

ill never forget when i saw lenny dykstra in a spring trianing game. they said he gained some weight, heck he didnt even look the same. that was my first exposure, tho i didnt know it at the time

[suicide_squeeze]

I doubt that Thome would be on the list . He has been a big boy for most
of his life. His whole family is a group of big guys. His old man is a softball legend in Illinois. Besides, His dad would kick his @$$.........

thomecollector,

Do I ever hope you are right. I have ALWAYS liked Jim Thome.

And the same goes for Frank Thomas. I sincerely hope he's a clean guy, because he's always been a monster of a man too, so maybe it's just a genetic thing there too.

But after the Rodriguez debacle......NOTHING would surprise me.

What would really be the final screw in my believing coffin would be to find out that Ken Griffey Jr.'s name was on the list. That would sinch the deal for me to start liquadating my entire "current day" collection. He has always been one of the top greats in the history of the game, a tremendous 5-tool player with the likes of Mays.

PLEASE Griffey.......don't be on that list!!!

[tmpjets]

As for Mariners fans let us just pray that Arod only used in Texas and this dosen't come back to Seattle to haunt us. The last thing I would want is my childhood stars get put on the list too; I mean come on Griffey,Edgar,Randy , and Buhner. Dear GOD MAN THE MADNESS!!!!!

[suave1477]

i Surprised All Of You Left Out 2 Major Players

Josh Hamilton Home Run Derby 28 Home Runs In The First Round
And Lets Not Forget The First Half Of His 2008 Season Which Was Crazy Till He Wore Out His Juice At The All Star Game

David Big Papi Ortiz - Does Practically Nothing For 6 Years With The Twins Joins Boston

Heres His Total Of Home Runs In 6 Years With The
Twins 48 Total In 6 Years

Boston
31
41
47
54
35
23

seems A Bit Fishy To Me Lol Lol:d

[dirtyla2000]

anyone, but VLADDY!

[WadeInBmore]

This entire steriod shake down has got me in disbelief as a fan and former player alike. I remember 5-6 years ago when all this first started coming out I went to the Orioles game with a sign that said..."et tu baseball?"

I was so hurt. And then the Mitchell report comes out and lists something like 20 some current and former Orioles!!!!

I have always been a Thomas fan, he was my idol when I was growing up...thats why I started to collect him. He's been speaking out about steriod testing since the mid 90's, was the only player that was interviewed in the Mitchell Report, and after he hit his 500th homerun...said "I hit 500 the right way."

I hope that he is clean. He has always been huge, his gut has gotten a bit bigger over the years but then again who's hasn't? When that list is finally released it's going to be another very trying day for baseball.

It also makes me laugh a bit at the "message" that everyone wants to put out there now. Say Thomas is clean...he's done it the right way...yet he is still a free agent, 18 year vet with over 500 homeruns...all the while the "cheaters" are rewarded with monsterous contracts.

We should all start taking a pool...$5 entrance fee...pick your team and the number of players from that team that will appear on the new list. Like so many on this forum have already said...this is only the beginning.

wade

[mr.miracle]

This entire steriod shake down has got me in disbelief as a fan and former player alike. I remember 5-6 years ago when all this first started coming out I went to the Orioles game with a sign that said..."et tu baseball?"

I was so hurt. And then the Mitchell report comes out and lists something like 20 some current and former Orioles!!!!

I have always been a Thomas fan, he was my idol when I was growing up...thats why I started to collect him. He's been speaking out about steriod testing since the mid 90's, was the only player that was interviewed in the Mitchell Report, and after he hit his 500th homerun...said "I hit 500 the right way."

I hope that he is clean. He has always been huge, his gut has gotten a bit bigger over the years but then again who's hasn't? When that list is finally released it's going to be another very trying day for baseball.

It also makes me laugh a bit at the "message" that everyone wants to put out there now. Say Thomas is clean...he's done it the right way...yet he is still a free agent, 18 year vet with over 500 homeruns...all the while the "cheaters" are rewarded with monsterous contracts.

We should all start taking a pool...$5 entrance fee...pick your team and the number of players from that team that will appear on the new list. Like so many on this forum have already said...this is only the beginning.

wade

The sad thing is Wade as a lifelong Orioles fan, all those Orioles were in the Mitchell report and what good did it do? The team has sucked for 15 plus years. If all those guys were on the juice, you can only imagine how bad they would have been if they had not been.:rolleyes:
I continue to be disgusted by just how badly the wheels have come off the cart in Baltimore. The team that was the class of baseball in the 60's and 70's can't field a winning team to save themselves. It is really a sad testament to what MLB has become in this day and age.

[Stefano61]

I really doubt Piazza ever used steroids, he was a big guy and a proven hr hitter even in the early 90's...in 1996, when teammate Brady Anderson hit 50 homers, Cal Ripken hit 26, the only time in his last 8 seasons in which he topped 20 homers...

[eisenreich8]

A local and knowing source dropped me the name Trot Nixon.

I also would add Carl Everett.

I personally do not think Varitek would be on the list. I think he takes his God-given abilities too seriously, which are eroding quickly nonetheless.

[skyking26]

The sad thing is Wade as a lifelong Orioles fan, all those Orioles were in the Mitchell report and what good did it do? The team has sucked for 15 plus years. If all those guys were on the juice, you can only imagine how bad they would have been if they had not been.:rolleyes:
I continue to be disgusted by just how badly the wheels have come off the cart in Baltimore. The team that was the class of baseball in the 60's and 70's can't field a winning team to save themselves. It is really a sad testament to what MLB has become in this day and age.
Don't feel to bad Brett. Have you not taken a look at the Detroit Tigers? Biggest embarassment in MLB. 2nd highest payroll behind NY in 08 and last place. That says it all.

[suicide_squeeze]

A local and knowing source dropped me the name Trot Nixon.

I also would add Carl Everett.

I personally do not think Varitek would be on the list. I think he takes his God-given abilities too seriously, which are eroding quickly nonetheless.

He may not be on THAT particular list.......but as an ex catcher, I'm telling you.......Tek was on the juice BIG-TIME.

Go back and look at the "Getty Images" pictures of him in 2002, 2003, 2004.....He was built like a TANK, and his legs were from another world. You don't develope legs like that from squatting behind a plate for years. You develope those kinds of legs by pushing around 1,250 pounds on leg press machines, backed by "quick recovery" so you can catch the next day.

Unless he was training in the off-season (to be the next Eric Heiden) on skates......he was "needle"ing his butt often and heavy.

[suicide_squeeze]

I really doubt Piazza ever used steroids, he was a big guy and a proven hr hitter even in the early 90's...in 1996, when teammate Brady Anderson hit 50 homers, Cal Ripken hit 26, the only time in his last 8 seasons in which he topped 20 homers...

I'm just gonna let the pics do the talking........and by the way, I'm a HUGE Dodger fan........but Mike Piazza.......well, just look........

[eisenreich8]

re: Varitek, I'll certainly take your word for it. I'm not qualified to dispute your info. He is an overly solid figure.

Piazza's before/after is mind-boggling. I looked like him in the first pic. Nothing short of PED's would change that in a mortal fan.

[mbenga28]

Paul O'Neill and Tino Martinez from the Yankees.

[cjclong]

What is the point to this. People are pointing fingers at players who may be totally innocent. How many of you would want people saying you may have done something wrong, pick your crime of choice, with no proof. All of you would be outraged. Because of the wide usage we now know about unfortunately there will be suspicion about everyone but why point fingers and accuse people who may be totally innocent. An excellent example is Josh Hamilton. He came into major league baseball two years ago when testing was in place. In addition to the testing done to regular players he was being tested EVERY WEEK because of his prior use of cocaine, etc which he admitted to. Before he got clean he was on the road to death getting down to 180 pounds at his 6'4 height. He admits he is still an addict and last year never carried more than $10 when he was on the road so he would not be tempted. Unlike most of the PED drug users he has written a book about his drug usage and speaks to young people to try to keep them from using. Because of how he abused himself with illegal drugs for several years he is still in a rehabilitative process and wore down at the end of last year. Most players were amazed he was able to do what he did given his years of drug abuse and time out of the game. Of all the people in baseball he is one you should not unfairly accuse , with zero prooof and no reasobable suspicion I might add.

[bigtruck260]

As a Cards fan, I am flattered that folks (especially Yankee fans) think he is on the juice. he is a remarkable player who has been tearing up MLB since his rookie season. Not only is he a pure, line drive hitter for average, he occasionally lofts one into orbit.

If Albert wanted to sacrifice his average (which he won't), he could easily hit 50+ homers every season. Not only that, he's the most consistent slugger in all of baseball. He hit 34 homers in 2002 (after hitting 37 in his rookie season) and has a high of 49...so what?

Do you think he took Steriods in 2005 and 2008 (after they really started testing?) Those are the years he won the MVP award. If he did, he'd be pretty stupid...and if you live in STL and know/watch Albert every day, he's not only smart, but very concerned about the legacy he leaves in baseball.

If Albert took steroids while playing in the MLB - and it is proven, I might just quit watching baseball. Nobody is 100% innocent, I can concede that...but Albert would be one player that I would really have a hard time accepting that from.

[chakes89]

Paul O'Neill and Tino Martinez from the Yankees.
Paul O'Neil?

Got anything to back that up?

[chakes89]

He may not be on THAT particular list.......but as an ex catcher, I'm telling you.......Tek was on the juice BIG-TIME.

Go back and look at the "Getty Images" pictures of him in 2002, 2003, 2004.....He was built like a TANK, and his legs were from another world. You don't develope legs like that from squatting behind a plate for years. You develope those kinds of legs by pushing around 1,250 pounds on leg press machines, backed by "quick recovery" so you can catch the next day.

Unless he was training in the off-season (to be the next Eric Heiden) on skates......he was "needle"ing his butt often and heavy.

You weren't kidding about his legs

Some pics:

JUNE 15, 2004:

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/2106241.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1934A2752006EF5F0ED2ADAE403921F5D9A E30A760B0D811297

OCTOBER 15, 2004:

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/2601778.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1934A2752006EF5F0ED86418B5C7283FAE5 E30A760B0D811297

[Nathan]

I agree with cjclong. This entire thread is the absolute height of absurdity...."103 names haven't been revealed, so let's make baseless accusations publicly."

As far as I'm concerned, the only people who have any room to speculate are those who have done the following:
1) Taken and passed classes in endocrinology and physiology
2) Taken and passed classes in exercise science and related courses
3) Have closely studied the science of baseball, specifically as it pertains to park effects, rule changes, and trends over time

From my standpoint, no one outside of that realm has any room to be speculating over who took based on some pictures (since your lack of knowledge abuot the basic subjects condemns you) or based off of arbitrary and cherry-picked numbers (which demonstrates a lack of knowledge about the game).

And I will step up and place myself at the top of the list of people who have met all three requirements. I also will not speculate about who I believe has or has not been 'roiding up. Certainly I have my own suspicions about certain players, but I'm not going to publicly post them.

On the plus side, this thread has given me a good list of those who speak without knowledge.

[cjmedina1]

Luis Gonzalez (http://www.hrpace.com/?player=Luis_Gonzalez) 57 homeruns in 2001
and who could forget the power hitter
Shawn Green (http://www.hrpace.com/?player=Shawn_Green) 49 Homeruns in 2001
followed by
Todd Helton (http://www.hrpace.com/?player=Todd_Helton) 49 homeruns in 2001
all who seemed to go into history as power hitters?



I would add Brett Boone 19 Homeruns in 2000
37 Homeruns in 2001

[suave1477]

I'm just gonna let the pics do the talking........and by the way, I'm a HUGE Dodger fan........but Mike Piazza.......well, just look........

I am not a Piazza fan but the farhest stretch of the imagination. But I do think your truly jumping the gun on these photos. Showin photos of Piazza getting bigger over years is not that big of a deal.

I used to work out with these 2 guys, I did it more for shape and getting my body toned. While the other 2 did it for getting really built and cut up.

They both in 1 year went from scrawny nothings to putting on some huge gun arms, flat cut stomachs, and big chests - they both would do about double the work out I was doing and would push there bodies to do about double the weight. With out and type of PED's just pure working hard in the gym and running every morning before work, in the park.

So my point is your showing pics of Piazza over at least a few year span (Which he was with the Dodgers for over 6 seasons) and his arms are just about the size of my friends arms.

So what your showing is really not any kind of implication of him doing anything.

[suicide_squeeze]

I agree with cjclong. This entire thread is the absolute height of absurdity...."103 names haven't been revealed, so let's make baseless accusations publicly."

As far as I'm concerned, the only people who have any room to speculate are those who have done the following:
1) Taken and passed classes in endocrinology and physiology
2) Taken and passed classes in exercise science and related courses
3) Have closely studied the science of baseball, specifically as it pertains to park effects, rule changes, and trends over time

From my standpoint, no one outside of that realm has any room to be speculating over who took based on some pictures (since your lack of knowledge abuot the basic subjects condemns you) or based off of arbitrary and cherry-picked numbers (which demonstrates a lack of knowledge about the game).

And I will step up and place myself at the top of the list of people who have met all three requirements. I also will not speculate about who I believe has or has not been 'roiding up. Certainly I have my own suspicions about certain players, but I'm not going to publicly post them.

On the plus side, this thread has given me a good list of those who speak without knowledge.

YOU have your own suspicions about certain players, but aren't going to publicly post them?

They why bother commenting at all? That's what this post is about.

Look,I live in Los Angeles. To this day, I like Mike Piazza....I loved him when he was a Dodger....LOVED him, and I was heartbroken when he demanded the big bucks and the Dodgers sent him packing. I'm not going to waste my time copying and posting all of the articles about Mike Piazza and his "blatant obvious steroid use"......like from a VERY PROMINENT sports reporter for the Los Angeles Times who was told (and subsequently wrote about it in an article) specifically not to "slap Mike Piazza on the back, because you're liable to explode the seriously bad acne condition he has recently developed".......which they were silently referring to his condition caused from steroid use.

I simply posted a few pictures. If anyone thinks they can transform themselves into a HULK like Mike became from simply working out in a weight room, then go for it. I got my forearms up to 19 1/2" to match my biceps, all at the tender age of 19, with no substance abuse of any kind. Hell, I didn't even take protein powders or anything, just regular vitamins was about it, and I ate a lot of protein (steaks, hamburgers, chicken, tuna, and milk products).

And through it all, I didn't have bulging "balls" for biceps like Mikie here.

Hmmmmmm.........makes one wonder.

I know this much, with some opinions and comments I see here, it's no wonder we have juries that let guys like O. J. Simpson walk, even when the obvious is placed RIGHT underneath their noses.

Just my two copper Lincolns....


By the way....... cjmedina1 .........I TOTALLY agree on Brett Boone...... that ALSO is a no brainer, you could see it by looking at his body changes.

Regards,

Steve

[suicide_squeeze]

You weren't kidding about his legs

Some pics:

JUNE 15, 2004:

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/2106241.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1934A2752006EF5F0ED2ADAE403921F5D9A E30A760B0D811297

OCTOBER 15, 2004:

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/2601778.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1934A2752006EF5F0ED86418B5C7283FAE5 E30A760B0D811297


GOOD homework, chakes89.......the guy had a MOSTER build that just wasn't natural.....there are many more pics that show him from different angles that just boggles the mind. Notice the shoulder size too (in reference to the general 'thickness').....the "swollen-appearing" arm....

Obvious user......IMHO.

[suicide_squeeze]

As a Cards fan, I am flattered that folks (especially Yankee fans) think he is on the juice. he is a remarkable player who has been tearing up MLB since his rookie season. Not only is he a pure, line drive hitter for average, he occasionally lofts one into orbit.

If Albert wanted to sacrifice his average (which he won't), he could easily hit 50+ homers every season. Not only that, he's the most consistent slugger in all of baseball. He hit 34 homers in 2002 (after hitting 37 in his rookie season) and has a high of 49...so what?

Do you think he took Steriods in 2005 and 2008 (after they really started testing?) Those are the years he won the MVP award. If he did, he'd be pretty stupid...and if you live in STL and know/watch Albert every day, he's not only smart, but very concerned about the legacy he leaves in baseball.

If Albert took steroids while playing in the MLB - and it is proven, I might just quit watching baseball. Nobody is 100% innocent, I can concede that...but Albert would be one player that I would really have a hard time accepting that from.


Dave.......I totally agree with you.

But my man........please, be careful.

We all have to remember this......as HARD as it appears to be to a lot of the members here.....

.......We HAVE to accept that steroids were RAMPANT, and WIDELY used in MLB during all of the 1990's and first half of the 2000's....and most likely a good chunk (if not all) of the 1980's too.

That said, you HAVE to believe it was a known fact in the clubhouses.

That said again......you HAVE to somewhat consider the fact that a LOT of the players who made it to the bigs.....were already using to some small extent. It would be naive to think otherwise. I was HOPING A-Rod was clean.....now that I know he wasn't, I no longer believe any pro athlete with stellar stats during these years was.

You just may find that Albert used in 2000 (yes, pre-big leagues), 2001, 2002, 2003......(not ALL of those years, but in any one given year) or HGH (maybe due to faster recovery from an injury.....after all, he's had MORE than his fair share of those, and there are no tests to identify it) and once he gained the desired size he has, maybe he works hard to maintain it. But please, Dave, I love Albert as much as you do, trust me.....he is the BEST player in baseball......just don't make the mistake of throwing ALL of your eggs in ONE basket......you may one day get a bad bit of news that bursts your bubble.

The emphasis should all be to cleaning up the game NOW, and QUICKLY, with strict BLOOD-testing, and STRICT penalties. Then, we can save this great game we love, and get our heros back.

[chakes89]

My Varitek pictures don't work now

:(

[chakes89]

Bret Boone Photos for anyone that cares:

February 2000:

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/72361780.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193875DCB1DD8387ABB5659D8CDBE0A62A2 4E9C89C783688B46

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/72375603.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193875DCB1DD8387ABB35B4C54696BAC23A 4E9C89C783688B46

June 2001:

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/81344261.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1934B869679A269F9CC8B16A0883138CC5A 26FD13ED7B73D4BC

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/81344247.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1934B869679A269F9CC6A228770A3A2C52A 26FD13ED7B73D4BC

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/81344262.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1934B869679A269F9CC5AD4721C92034080 26FD13ED7B73D4BC

[bigtruck260]

Dave.......I totally agree with you.

But my man........please, be careful.

We all have to remember this......as HARD as it appears to be to a lot of the members here.....

.......We HAVE to accept that steroids were RAMPANT, and WIDELY used in MLB during all of the 1990's and first half of the 2000's....and most likely a good chunk (if not all) of the 1980's too.

That said, you HAVE to believe it was a known fact in the clubhouses.

That said again......you HAVE to somewhat consider the fact that a LOT of the players who made it to the bigs.....were already using to some small extent. It would be naive to think otherwise. I was HOPING A-Rod was clean.....now that I know he wasn't, I no longer believe any pro athlete with stellar stats during these years was.

You just may find that Albert used in 2000 (yes, pre-big leagues), 2001, 2002, 2003......(not ALL of those years, but in any one given year) or HGH (maybe due to faster recovery from an injury.....after all, he's had MORE than his fair share of those, and there are no tests to identify it) and once he gained the desired size he has, maybe he works hard to maintain it. But please, Dave, I love Albert as much as you do, trust me.....he is the BEST player in baseball......just don't make the mistake of throwing ALL of your eggs in ONE basket......you may one day get a bad bit of news that bursts your bubble.

The emphasis should all be to cleaning up the game NOW, and QUICKLY, with strict BLOOD-testing, and STRICT penalties. Then, we can save this great game we love, and get our heros back.


Thanks for the warning - but if you go back and read my original post, I said while he was in the MLB...

There is no question that his rise to greatness happened literally overnight...and the minors are a place where athletes are in serious need of disinguishing themselves. HOPEFULLY, Albert was not a juicer in the minors - but if he was, I am fairly confident that he left them behind when joining the big club in '01.

[joelsabi]

Bret Boone Photos for anyone that cares:

February 2000:

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/72361780.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193875DCB1DD8387ABB5659D8CDBE0A62A2 4E9C89C783688B46

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/72375603.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193875DCB1DD8387ABB35B4C54696BAC23A 4E9C89C783688B46

June 2001:

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/81344261.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1934B869679A269F9CC8B16A0883138CC5A 26FD13ED7B73D4BC

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/81344247.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1934B869679A269F9CC6A228770A3A2C52A 26FD13ED7B73D4BC

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/81344262.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1934B869679A269F9CC5AD4721C92034080 26FD13ED7B73D4BC

was watching a replay of a 2002 seattle mariners game where in the first inning of the game, mike cameron and brett boone hit two homeruns each in the same inning. the broadcaster looked it up and said it was the first time teammate ever did that.

[camarokids]

Something you all need to remember. Most anyone can get big and bulky.

Now what and who you should question is when someone puts on 30 pounds of muscle in the off season.

Such as Jonny Gomes shows up in 2006, 30 pounds heavier of all muscle. The media and announcers were talking like he did a good thing, praising the guy:rolleyes:.

Getting big can be done without steroids. It just takes a lot longer.....

[chakes89]

Good point

Maybe Bret just hit puberty a little later than the rest of the boys

:D

[Nathan]

YOU have your own suspicions about certain players, but aren't going to publicly post them?

They why bother commenting at all? That's what this post is about.

I refuse to take part in a baseless witch hunt by simply throwing names out there. The fact that someone honestly listed Todd Helton is hilarious; I stood next to and talked to a shirtless Helton after his 2001 season and all I'll say is this. If he were being provided with steroids and what I saw was the end result, I'd be finding the dealer and beating the crap out of him.


Look,I live in Los Angeles. To this day, I like Mike Piazza....I loved him when he was a Dodger....LOVED him, and I was heartbroken when he demanded the big bucks and the Dodgers sent him packing. I'm not going to waste my time copying and posting all of the articles about Mike Piazza and his "blatant obvious steroid use"......like from a VERY PROMINENT sports reporter for the Los Angeles Times who was told (and subsequently wrote about it in an article) specifically not to "slap Mike Piazza on the back, because you're liable to explode the seriously bad acne condition he has recently developed".......which they were silently referring to his condition caused from steroid use.

I'm not saying Piazza is clean or not. My point is, it's not as simple as looking at a couple of pictures or numbers from one or two seasons and being able to accurately say "Yeah, he's using."


I simply posted a few pictures. If anyone thinks they can transform themselves into a HULK like Mike became from simply working out in a weight room, then go for it. I got my forearms up to 19 1/2" to match my biceps, all at the tender age of 19, with no substance abuse of any kind. Hell, I didn't even take protein powders or anything, just regular vitamins was about it, and I ate a lot of protein (steaks, hamburgers, chicken, tuna, and milk products).

And through it all, I didn't have bulging "balls" for biceps like Mikie here.

Hmmmmmm.........makes one wonder.

Not really. There's an enormous amount of difference between the way that the body reacts for a top-level athlete versus a mid-level versus a low-level versus someone just getting back into the gym. Incredibly minor things like where a muscle attaches (a matter of millimeters) can have enormous consequences in terms of how much force is capable of being exerted. Genetics and exercise habits from an early age can play an enormous role in how quickly muscle tissue can recover, how effectively oxygen can be transported, and a myriad of other factors that combine to separate the AA ball player from an MLB All Star.

I naturally have extremely large biceps, particularly in my right arm (the muscle is obviously asymmetrical between my right and left arms). If I ever focused on an arm workout, the biceps would get enormous. On the other hand, I naturally have fairly small pectoralis major and no amount of bench press or pushups will change that.

On the other hand, a friend of mine from way back when was one of the few who could actually do a maximal workout every single day. I have no idea how, but he could recover just that quickly. That's why he ended up a state champion in track and had D-1 offers for two different sports and why I never got off the bench.


I know this much, with some opinions and comments I see here, it's no wonder we have juries that let guys like O. J. Simpson walk, even when the obvious is placed RIGHT underneath their noses.

That's absolutely ridiculous. If you want a comparison, it would be like the prosecution in the Simpson case standing up and saying "When OJ was notified of Nicole's death, he reacted in a manner that we believe to be unlike most people in that position. Therefore it is obvious that he is guilty of murdering her."

Let me ask you this. Did Hank Aaron's skills ever rise or fall, or was he performing at exactly the same level his entire career? (And no, I'm not accusing Hank of doing anything shady)

[suicide_squeeze]

[quote=Nathan;124671]

That's absolutely ridiculous. If you want a comparison, it would be like the prosecution in the Simpson case standing up and saying "When OJ was notified of Nicole's death, he reacted in a manner that we believe to be unlike most people in that position. Therefore it is obvious that he is guilty of murdering her."

Nathan,

I don't want a comparison of anything.

I just know that, if I'm EVER involved in any criminal proceeding, I pray to GOD I have at least ONE of your type on the jury to insure my wrongful release.

Regards,

Steve

[Nathan]

[quote=Nathan;124671]

That's absolutely ridiculous. If you want a comparison, it would be like the prosecution in the Simpson case standing up and saying "When OJ was notified of Nicole's death, he reacted in a manner that we believe to be unlike most people in that position. Therefore it is obvious that he is guilty of murdering her."

Nathan,

I don't want a comparison of anything.

I just know that, if I'm EVER involved in any criminal proceeding, I pray to GOD I have at least ONE of your type on the jury to insure my wrongful release.

Regards,

Steve

By the same token, I hope that if I'm ever wrongfully accused of anything that I never find you on the jury making sure I'm found guilty even if the entire case is built on the flimsiest of circumstantial evidence.

"Hmmmm, size 12 shoeprints were found near the crime scene, and the guy in cuffs wears size 12 shoes. Based on that alone, he's guilty."