Trying to authenticate a Willie Stargell bat...

[johnlorlando]

I have a Willie Stargell bat I obtained from a neighbor who frequently deals with athletes in his line of work (manages a golf shop). He claims he was given this bat by a former minor league player that was a friend of Stargell, and that the player told him Stargell had played in the post-season with it. I know it is impossible to verify the post season play, but I'd love to be able to pinpoint the approximate time frame the bat could've been used by "Pops", if indeed this is one of his bats.

It is a slightly dark-blonde 125 Louisville Slugger that says "Powerized" above the label. On the signiture spot it has a fascimile signiture "Wilver Stargell" with "Genuine" and "U1" above, and "Louisville Slugger" below.

The bottom 13" or so of the bat is slightly darker shade, which I believe is from tape which has since been removed, but no pine tar stains from what I can see. It doesn't have a knob at the end of the handle. Instead it is smoothed and slightly thinker at the very end where the knob of the bat usually is. I've seen photos of Stargell batting with his pinky finger below the bat, so maybe this is how he ordered them. There is no "8" written on the bottom of the knob, however.

Apart from the above, there are some small knicks on the handle here-and-there, and what appear to be seam indentations on the sweet spot of the bat (label up for a lefty). On the other side of the bat (sweet spot, label down), there are some faint dark stains, possibly from tapping the cleats.

I'd really appreciate any help on this one. It's a beautiful bat and brings back so many childhood memories of the home runs I saw Stargell hit at 3 Rivers. Thanks!

[johnlorlando]

I forgot to mention that the bat is 35 inches in length. I haven't weighed it yet, but it's a monster.

[johnlorlando]

I ran across a photo of Stargell using a bat just like the one I have. Everything visible in the photo matches up. http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/gen/photogallery/hof/year_2007/month_02/day_22/cf1313.html

It's the posed photo where he's in a batting stance with his thumb taped. I can't see the knob of the bat, but it looks like he has his pinky under the knob (in essence swinging with 9 fingers on the bat). My bat is a darker shade of blonde than that photo, most likely from age and sunlight. From the uniform, I'm guessing that this photo is from the late '60's.

[MSpecht]

Hi John--

Here are some thoughts on the bat you describe. Fiorst, if you are asble to post a picture of the knob end, center label and the barrel label, it would be easier to pinpoint the manufacture date. If not, here is a site to go to which shows the various H & B labeling periods that you can match your bat to as well:

http://webpages.charter.net/birdbats/Birdbats/Bat%20ID/LS.htm (http://webpages.charter.net/birdbats/Birdbats/Bat%20ID/LS.htm)

In the meantime, the labeling you describe dates the bat from between 1977 to 1989. You will be able to quickly determine when looking at the site above whether it is from 1977-79 (old H & B center label) or 1980-83 (large new Louisville slugger label), 1983-85 (small new LS center label) or 1986-89 (registration trademark under the barrel label after Lousiville Slugger.)

Given the above information, Stargell's personal H & B factory records show that he ordered 35-inch model U1 bats for his personal professional use in 1962, 1968, and 1969. All of those orders predate the labeling you describe. In 1964 he ordered 35.5-inch U1 bats, but they predate the labeling you describe as well. The only orders of U1 bats that may match your labeling post-1976 are orders of 34-inch (1982 - last season and 1983 post career) and 35 inch (1992 post career) all of which were invoiced to BB Miscellaneous, with specified weight indicating possible production for Stargell.

The other thing that must be considered is that the bat is a team index bat, which is basically a bat ordered by the team for use by players and persons throught the organization that may bear the names of the teams players who have endorsement contracts with H & B> Although not Stargell's pro stock model, U! was ordered with some frequency by him prior to 1976. If you do a search on this GUU site using key words 'team index bats' you will find more specific information about them.

When a bat does not appear in a player's ordering records, yet matches the model, length, weight, finish, etc known to have been used by the player at various times during his career, an examination of the player's personal use characteristics must be considered to determine if there is a possibility that he may have actually used a bat that is being considered. Stargell often specified the use of wide grained wood, knots, and the weight written on the knob of bats he ordered. As his career progressed, 34 ounce bats were the norm, with weights increasing to 35, 36, and even 37 ounces---true monsters. Again, post pics if you get the chance.

Mike Jackitout7@aol.com

[johnlorlando]

You say the labeling is from 1977 and later, but I found a late '60s picture of him with the same bat I have. Maybe I left something out in the description. I'll send pictures later (I have a men's over-38 league game to play right now).

I forgot to mention that in the label "Louisville, Kentucky Made in U.S.A." is in small print under "125 Louisville Slugger".

[johnlorlando]

Nope...I was wrong about the photo. Looks like it's 1980 or so. I'll get back with photos.

[MSpecht]

Hi John--- looking forward to the photos--- Also, the labeling that puts the bat at post-1976 is the model number being on the barrel label rather than stamped onto the knob, which it had been until 1976 when the model number was made part of the barrel label. (Note-- even though the model number was moved to the barrel in 1976, the "Powerized" was replaced for that one year with the Bicentennial logo.)

Mike jackitout7@aol.com

[johnlorlando]

photos.... file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/John/My%20Documents/My%20Pictures/2009-02-15/Picture%20001.jpg

[johnlorlando]

.

[johnlorlando]

more photos...

[johnlorlando]

Sorry the photos didn't come out as clear as I'd like them ( I couldn't reduce the size).

The bat is definately 35 inches, and the barrel exactly matches the 1980-1983 period with the larger label and the "powerized" slanted down. You mentioned that Stargell had ordered U1's (34") 1982-1983, and 35" U1's in 1992 a decade after he retired. On the 1992 order, would the bats still have the label that was used for the 1982-83 orders ("powerized" slated down)? Or would the 1992 label be different? Also, how many did Stargell order in 1992, and what would be the purpose of him ordering the bats?

[MSpecht]

The labeling pictured (appears to be 'new large label' with the center oval
4 1/2 inches in width) is corect for 1980-83, and is pretty certain to be the manufacturing period of this bat. The liklihood of the bat being manufactured in the 1990's with that label is virtually nil. Given the absence of this order in Stargell's personal H & B records, it seems likely to be a team index bat of the 1980-83 period.

As to your other question, there are many reasons that players order bats after their playing careers are over. Most commonly, they are ordering them as coaches for use in warm-up activities, or for use as instructors during spring training, old timers games, etc. Others order them to give out to friends, or other similar activities. Hoyt Wilhelm, in particular, would order a bat made to the specifications of various former teammates and opponents that he apparently wanted to have in his personal collection. Anyway, the 1992 order for Stargell was dated 5/11/92 and consisted of three bats U1 / 35 in / 34 oz / Natural Finish. The order was invoiced to BB Miscellaneous. The labeling of that order would almost certainly be consistent with the labeling of the period.

Mike jackitout7@aol.com

[johnlorlando]

So the label pinpoints it to the 1980-83 area, and the 35" length (and absence of an "8" on the knob) would indicate a team index bat, as he was ordering 34 inch U1's at the time. The only usage evidence that I found on it that points to Stargell is the seam indentations on the side of the bat that lefties would hit with with the label up. Anyways, it looks like it had some light/moderate usage, probably in practice, since this is most likely a team index bat.

Is there any record of how many of this model was ordered for index bats? And what is the approximate value of this piece, in your opinion?

Thank you so much for your help on this. :)

[MSpecht]

Hi John--- we do not have the team order records available for the Pirates during that period, so do not have the team-ordered index bats totals. As far as value, in the Spring 2008 GUU Auction a 1982 GU Stargell went for approximately $ 600.00. Depending on the era, Stargell GU bats can be found around that price up to several hundred dollars more.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/auction/lot.php?id=724


This bat --- from the end of his career that is not found specifically in Stargell's personal H & B records --- would likely be valued significantly less than that.

Mike jackitout7@aol.com

[johnlorlando]

Is it possible that this bat was made during the 1979 season?

[MSpecht]

No, the labeling indicates manufacture no earlier than 1980, Here is a quick reference to Louisville Slugger label periods, courtesy of BirdBats website.

http://webpages.charter.net/birdbats/Birdbats/Bat%20ID/LS.htm

Mike jackitout7@aol.com