PDA

View Full Version : Wood bats VS. Aluminum



Capital-Sports
02-23-2009, 08:15 PM
As brought up in another thread, I figured Id start a thread dedicated solely to this argument.

If a major leaguer hits a baseball with a wood bat 350+ feet, imagine how far and HARDER the ball would travel with an aluminum bat. An aluminum bat in the hands of a major leaguer would be a DEADLY weapon. Yes wood bats are dangerous at times, braking, shattering, and being flung into stands and in the field, but come on, aluminum? Think about foul balls being hit into the crowd, balls hit at other players. Wood is definitely safer than aluminum!

Capital-Sports
02-23-2009, 08:19 PM
Meant to put discussion, not argument :D

Vintagedeputy
02-23-2009, 08:19 PM
I agree Capital. Aluminum bats would kill someone. Can you imagine McGwire hitting with an A-bat ? It would be pure murder.

frikativ54
02-23-2009, 08:20 PM
All of the flying bat pieces - at fans, at other playes, at umpires - are far more dangerous than aluminum bats. Why do we use them in college, if they are supposedly so dangerous? And they are more environmentally friendly. A bunch of reasons to favor aluminum.

Plus, everyone says that he/she loves the longball. There would be more longballs with aluminum. And it would be a more exciting game.

Capital-Sports
02-23-2009, 08:27 PM
Im sure the number of foul balls hit into stands is BEYOND how many bats that are cracked get flung into stands and at players. Think about how many foul balls are hit in 1 MLB game, then think about the players using aluminum. Foul balls are already dangerous when line drived with a wood bat, now imagine aluminum. Fans would get there heads knocked off. Yes, we all love watching homeruns, but if everyone used aluminum, average players would be hitting 50, 60 + HR's a season, and the big boys would be hitting well over 100. No reason to ever use aluminum. Wood bats are the bread and butter of the major leagues. There not in college anymore. Welcome to the show!

Vintagedeputy
02-23-2009, 08:29 PM
Why do we use them in college, if they are supposedly so dangerous?



If seatbelts are so safe, why dont school buses carrying our children use them?

Aluminum bats used by the behemoths of MLB would cause someone to die.

frikativ54
02-23-2009, 08:32 PM
If seatbelts are so safe, why dont school buses carrying our children use them?

Aluminum bats used by the behemoths of MLB would cause someone to die.

Huh? Don't understand your analogy with seatbelts. I don't watch much college ball, but I ain't never seen someone die from an aluminum bat. Wood is so much easier to break, and we see bats going into the stands all the time. Not the least bit safe. I still don't understand - if it works for college guys, why not for Big Leaguers? Are you guys so resistant to change jsut because you guys like to collect wooden bats? It would be fun to watch that many more homeruns with aluminum.

Vintagedeputy
02-23-2009, 08:38 PM
I don't watch much college ball, but I ain't never seen someone die from an aluminum bat.

Metal Bats Are an Issue of Life and Death


Published: July 16, 2006

On a July night three years ago, a line drive rocketed off a metal bat and smashed into the left temple of Brandon Patch, an 18-year-old American Legion pitcher in Montana. Within hours, he was dead.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/07/16/sports/16mavs190.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:pop_me_up2('http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/07/16/sports/16bats_CA3.ready.html', '16bats_CA3_ready', 'width=465,height=440,scrollbars=yes,toolbars=no,r esizable=yes'))James Woodcock/Billings Gazette, via Associated Press
The Miles City Mavericks were joined by the Helena Senators in July 2003 for the funeral of Brandon Patch, who was killed by a drive off a metal bat.

Related

Hit in Chest by Line Drive, a 12-Year-Old Player Remains in a Coma (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/16/sports/baseball/16coma.html) (July 16, 2006)






http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/07/16/sports/16bats.jpg Alison Dinstel for The New York Times
A ball is estimated to travel about 20 miles an hour faster off a metal bat than off a wood bat.



In April 2005, a line drive off a metal bat slammed into the temple of Bill Kalant, a 16-year-old high school pitcher in suburban Chicago. The ball traveled “with laserlike speed,” said Skip Sullivan, Kalant’s coach at Oak Lawn High School. Kalant was rushed to a hospital adjoining the field, where an emergency-room doctor told his parents, “He is on the cliff of death.” He made it through after being in a coma for two weeks and having brain surgery. He has had to learn how to brush his teeth again, how to tie his shoes again, how to walk again.
At a Police Athletic League game last month in Wayne, N.J., a line drive off a metal bat struck the chest of Steven Domalewski, 12, knocking him down and stopping his heart for a few minutes. He was revived on the field and taken to a hospital, where he was put in a medically induced coma, placed on a feeding tube and hooked to electrodes to stimulate his brain. He is still in a coma.
Brandon Patch lived with his parents, Duane and Deb, in Miles City, Mont., a small cowboy town where he played for a team called the Mavericks. The Patches run a Web site dedicated to Brandon, forever11.com (http://forever11.com/), and are part of a national crusade to eliminate aluminum bats in amateur baseball in favor of wood bats, which they and many others consider to be less dangerous. They have, however, met with stiff resistance from bat manufacturers and officials of amateur leagues.
At home in Oak Lawn, Ill., Tony Kalant, Bill’s father, said he believed that his son would not have sustained his life-threatening injury if a wood bat had been used. “He would have reacted quicker,” Kalant said. “Like this, the ball was hit so hard and came so fast, he didn’t have a chance.”
In Trenton, Assemblyman Patrick J. Diegnan Jr., a Democrat from Middlesex County, introduced a bill last month to prohibit the use of metal bats in youth and high school baseball leagues. “It’s time to do away with the hollow ping and the increased risk of injury aluminum bats brought to New Jersey ballfields,” Diegnan said in a statement. He added that a ball traveled about 20 miles an hour faster off a metal bat than off a wood bat because of what is generally referred to as the “trampoline effect.”
The conflict over the use of metal versus wood began almost from the inception of the use of aluminum bats in the early 1970’s to cut the cost of replacing broken wood bats. The controversy took an odd turn last month: The Mavericks forfeited four games as part of a home-and-away series with the Bozeman Bucks of their Eastern Montana Class AA American Legion conference because Bozeman refused to play with wood.
“Ever since Brandon’s death, we only play games with wood bats, because it’s safer — I feel there’s no question about that — and out of respect for Brandon and his parents,” said Matt Phillips, the Mavericks’ coach.
He was speaking in the clubhouse at Denton Field, the Mavericks’ home ballpark. The clubhouse, named Patch’s Corner, was built with donations from the community and from supporters around the country. A memorial stone and a photo of the left-handed Patch following through on a pitch are at the entrance.
The other five teams in the conference, as well as all other American Legion teams in the state, play with aluminum bats when Miles City is not involved. They have respected the Miles City position in games against the Mavericks. In the past two years, in the eight games Bozeman and Miles City played, Bozeman used wood bats. Bozeman is again at the top end of the league standings, Miles City at the lower rung.
“At the conference meeting in December, all the teams, including Bozeman, agreed again to play us only with wood bats,” Phillips said. “Then on Friday, three days before we were supposed to play them, Mitch Messer, their coach, calls and says they have decided to play with aluminum bats. I said we aren’t going to play with aluminum bats and that we’d have to forfeit the games. He said: ‘We’re a metal-bat team, and we don’t want to do anything to jeopardize our season. I mean no disrespect to your team or to Brandon Patch’s family, but that’s our decision.’ ”
Deb Patch said: “It really is a slap in our face. It totally is.”

sctizzle
02-23-2009, 08:42 PM
As someone who umpires games played by kids anywhere from 10-18, aluminum bats are weapons. Has anyone swung one of these bats lately? It is absolutely amazing how fast the ball comes off of the bat. The issue shouldn't be about putting aluminum in the majors, but instead getting rid of aluminum at ALL age groups.

While no pitcher has been killed during an NCAA game, players as young as 14 have been killed or permanently injured by balls batted from aluminum bats. The use of wood bats might have saved their lives, and many parents and activists feel that cost cannot be prioritized over safety.
http://www.essortment.com/hobbies/aluminumwooden_spdb.htm

I have seen first hand pitchers taking a line drive up the middle and it is not a pretty sight. I have dealt with teams who have lost a teammate or are dealing with a teammate in the hospital fighting for their life.

It is safe to say that aluminum would never be considered for MLB play.

Capital-Sports
02-23-2009, 08:42 PM
Vintagedeputy, thank you for the references. I'm sure everyone can agree using aluminum in major league baseball would be ludicrous.

thomecollector
02-23-2009, 08:43 PM
Metal Bats Are an Issue of Life and Death


Published: July 16, 2006
On a July night three years ago, a line drive rocketed off a metal bat and smashed into the left temple of Brandon Patch, an 18-year-old American Legion pitcher in Montana. Within hours, he was dead.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/07/16/sports/16mavs190.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:pop_me_up2('http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/07/16/sports/16bats_CA3.ready.html', '16bats_CA3_ready', 'width=465,height=440,scrollbars=yes,toolbars=no,r esizable=yes'))James Woodcock/Billings Gazette, via Associated Press
The Miles City Mavericks were joined by the Helena Senators in July 2003 for the funeral of Brandon Patch, who was killed by a drive off a metal bat.

Related

Hit in Chest by Line Drive, a 12-Year-Old Player Remains in a Coma (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/16/sports/baseball/16coma.html) (July 16, 2006)






http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/07/16/sports/16bats.jpg Alison Dinstel for The New York Times
A ball is estimated to travel about 20 miles an hour faster off a metal bat than off a wood bat.



In April 2005, a line drive off a metal bat slammed into the temple of Bill Kalant, a 16-year-old high school pitcher in suburban Chicago. The ball traveled “with laserlike speed,” said Skip Sullivan, Kalant’s coach at Oak Lawn High School. Kalant was rushed to a hospital adjoining the field, where an emergency-room doctor told his parents, “He is on the cliff of death.” He made it through after being in a coma for two weeks and having brain surgery. He has had to learn how to brush his teeth again, how to tie his shoes again, how to walk again.
At a Police Athletic League game last month in Wayne, N.J., a line drive off a metal bat struck the chest of Steven Domalewski, 12, knocking him down and stopping his heart for a few minutes. He was revived on the field and taken to a hospital, where he was put in a medically induced coma, placed on a feeding tube and hooked to electrodes to stimulate his brain. He is still in a coma.
Brandon Patch lived with his parents, Duane and Deb, in Miles City, Mont., a small cowboy town where he played for a team called the Mavericks. The Patches run a Web site dedicated to Brandon, forever11.com (http://forever11.com/), and are part of a national crusade to eliminate aluminum bats in amateur baseball in favor of wood bats, which they and many others consider to be less dangerous. They have, however, met with stiff resistance from bat manufacturers and officials of amateur leagues.
At home in Oak Lawn, Ill., Tony Kalant, Bill’s father, said he believed that his son would not have sustained his life-threatening injury if a wood bat had been used. “He would have reacted quicker,” Kalant said. “Like this, the ball was hit so hard and came so fast, he didn’t have a chance.”
In Trenton, Assemblyman Patrick J. Diegnan Jr., a Democrat from Middlesex County, introduced a bill last month to prohibit the use of metal bats in youth and high school baseball leagues. “It’s time to do away with the hollow ping and the increased risk of injury aluminum bats brought to New Jersey ballfields,” Diegnan said in a statement. He added that a ball traveled about 20 miles an hour faster off a metal bat than off a wood bat because of what is generally referred to as the “trampoline effect.”
The conflict over the use of metal versus wood began almost from the inception of the use of aluminum bats in the early 1970’s to cut the cost of replacing broken wood bats. The controversy took an odd turn last month: The Mavericks forfeited four games as part of a home-and-away series with the Bozeman Bucks of their Eastern Montana Class AA American Legion conference because Bozeman refused to play with wood.
“Ever since Brandon’s death, we only play games with wood bats, because it’s safer — I feel there’s no question about that — and out of respect for Brandon and his parents,” said Matt Phillips, the Mavericks’ coach.
He was speaking in the clubhouse at Denton Field, the Mavericks’ home ballpark. The clubhouse, named Patch’s Corner, was built with donations from the community and from supporters around the country. A memorial stone and a photo of the left-handed Patch following through on a pitch are at the entrance.
The other five teams in the conference, as well as all other American Legion teams in the state, play with aluminum bats when Miles City is not involved. They have respected the Miles City position in games against the Mavericks. In the past two years, in the eight games Bozeman and Miles City played, Bozeman used wood bats. Bozeman is again at the top end of the league standings, Miles City at the lower rung.
“At the conference meeting in December, all the teams, including Bozeman, agreed again to play us only with wood bats,” Phillips said. “Then on Friday, three days before we were supposed to play them, Mitch Messer, their coach, calls and says they have decided to play with aluminum bats. I said we aren’t going to play with aluminum bats and that we’d have to forfeit the games. He said: ‘We’re a metal-bat team, and we don’t want to do anything to jeopardize our season. I mean no disrespect to your team or to Brandon Patch’s family, but that’s our decision.’ ”
Deb Patch said: “It really is a slap in our face. It totally is.”
'Nuff Said !!:eek:

Fnazxc0114
02-23-2009, 08:46 PM
are you kidding me. wood bats are bad for the enviroment. now i have read it all. is the processing of aluminum good for the enviroment. is the fart i just let good for the enviroment? everything we do affects the enviroment. granted i also dont by into the beliefs of global warming and all the crap that goes along with it.

GarkoCollector
02-23-2009, 08:46 PM
I ain't never seen someone die from an aluminum bat.

Have you ever seen 10 billion dollars in cash?
Just because YOU haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

spartakid
02-23-2009, 09:13 PM
It appears that there's only one advocate for the aluminum bat theory. That should probably say something. I would also assume that the professional players are much stronger than most college players and I do recall a story about a college coach at 3rd that was killed by a foul ball. The use of wood from bat production is so low on the overall scale that it's not even a problem. People are jumping on the "green" bandwagon and are taking it overboard.....

shoremen44
02-23-2009, 09:24 PM
New York Time article...

"Metal Bats Are an Issue of Life and Death"

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/16/sports/baseball/16bats.html?ei=5088&en=bc65539595b5ee8c&ex=1310702400&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

Masimen
02-23-2009, 09:36 PM
There really is no debate here. The numbers don't lie. It takes a human a minimum of just under 4 tenths of a second to react at 60 feet 6 inches to a batted ball. At that distance any ball traveling above 97 MPH will get there before the pitcher has time to react. Balls have been measured coming off aluminum bats at upwards of 110MPH. You just aren't going to get hat velocity from a wood bat. Not to mention the sweet spot on an aluminum bat is much bigger. It is a bad combination. This is big business, far bigger than the wood bat business. The bat companies are going to do everything they can to keep it going.

bigtruck260
02-23-2009, 10:01 PM
It appears that there's only one advocate for the aluminum bat theory. That should probably say something. I would also assume that the professional players are much stronger than most college players and I do recall a story about a college coach at 3rd that was killed by a foul ball. The use of wood from bat production is so low on the overall scale that it's not even a problem. People are jumping on the "green" bandwagon and are taking it overboard.....

This is coming from someone who played baseball at almost every amateur level out there including American Legion, SLABA, High School and college...

Just a few reasons for wood:

1. Tradition is very important. The powers that be seem to be removing little traditions from American culture daily. Wood bats have been constant in MLB - this will never change.

2. Amateur vs. Pro - HUGE difference. 99% of Division 1 college players never play in the MLB. Even the best college players do not have the ability to drive the ball the way major leaguers do.

3. The problem with shattering bats is being addressed. Hopefully, there will be a decline this year. As a fan who sits very close the the field, I'll take my chances on a bat flying into the stands (happened once in 20 MLB games attended last year at BUSCH) as opposed to a line drive foul from Chris Duncan or Albert Pujols...I see 10-20 of these EVERY GAME.

If you really need more than this - you are just grabbing at straws.
My guess is that you've never played real baseball Frik (and that's not being sexist) - because if you did, you'd realize how silly of an 'argument' this whole thing is. Wood bats can be recycled and are biodegradable BTW.

frikativ54
02-23-2009, 11:21 PM
1. Tradition is very important. The powers that be seem to be removing little traditions from American culture daily. Wood bats have been constant in MLB - this will never change.

I think this hits the nail on the head. Above all else, I think that people value tradition, and since it's been this way, people want it to stay this way. Don't know what traditions are being taken away - I don't see it, probably because I (at 24) am too young to notice. Before raising the issue in the other thread, I never knew there was such opposition to aluminum.


3. The problem with shattering bats is being addressed. Hopefully, there will be a decline this year. As a fan who sits very close the the field, I'll take my chances on a bat flying into the stands (happened once in 20 MLB games attended last year at BUSCH) as opposed to a line drive foul from Chris Duncan or Albert Pujols...I see 10-20 of these EVERY GAME.

Once is too much. I don't have the time to pull out a bunch of articles, but I remember hearing a bunch of incidents in the past with people getting hurt by flying splinters of wood. I know there are efforts to address this, but I would really like to know how this is going to be eliminated.


If you really need more than this - you are just grabbing at straws.
My guess is that you've never played real baseball Frik (and that's not being sexist) - because if you did, you'd realize how silly of an 'argument' this whole thing is. Wood bats can be recycled and are biodegradable BTW.

What is considered "real baseball"? I did play baseball in the 7th grade, and I have played softball in other years, and we never had the problems so described. I have been struck by line drives while pitching in non-competitive softball, and I do know that it hurts. But perhaps I am not in a position to comment having not played college baseball or softball (career cut short - a story for another day).

frikativ54
02-23-2009, 11:25 PM
are you kidding me. wood bats are bad for the enviroment. now i have read it all. is the processing of aluminum good for the enviroment. is the fart i just let good for the enviroment?

I didn't think discussions of flatulence were relevant to this conversation.


everything we do affects the enviroment. granted i also dont by into the beliefs of global warming and all the crap that goes along with it.

:confused: :eek: :rolleyes:

xpress34
02-23-2009, 11:26 PM
Actually (if I can find the article) while I was working for Rawlings there was a story circulating about a player (I don't remember what level) that was killed by a broken aluminum bat.

Just like with a wood bat, the aluminum is more vunerable where the rise of the barrel thins down into the handle. The batter swung at an inside pitch and literally had his bat saw off and the flying barrel with the sheared off end impaled someone.

Much rarer than a line drive, but it has happened, just the same.

If you want another reason why Aluminum would be so much more deadly for the speed and distance it puts on a ball:

Last year before a game at Coors Field they had an exhibition from a touring professional HR hitting Softball group. these guys were hitting SOFTBALLS into the Upper Deck at Coors Field! It's hard enough to hit a HR on a regular Softball field - not to mention at a MAJOR LEAGUE Park. I still have one of the softballs that I caught int he LF Pavillion during their exhibition.

Wood should always be the bat of choice for MLB - and to address an earlier comment about NCAA players who don't make it in the pros - many of them have never swung a wood bat until they hit the pros... and that's a HUGE adjustment from Aluminum.

- Chris

suicide_squeeze
02-23-2009, 11:29 PM
All of the flying bat pieces - at fans, at other playes, at umpires - are far more dangerous than aluminum bats. Why do we use them in college, if they are supposedly so dangerous? And they are more environmentally friendly. A bunch of reasons to favor aluminum.

Plus, everyone says that he/she loves the longball. There would be more longballs with aluminum. And it would be a more exciting game.

I think it's safe to assume Les isn't a baseball historian.....:(

frikativ54
02-23-2009, 11:37 PM
If you really need more than this - you are just grabbing at straws. My guess is that you've never played real baseball Frik (and that's not being sexist) - because if you did, you'd realize how silly of an 'argument' this whole thing is. Wood bats can be recycled and are biodegradable BTW.

"Real baseball" as opposed "fake baseball"? Not sexist?

So - the inferior version they have for girls is not "real baseball"?

Softball?

Because girls are simply not capable of playing baseball?

They can't even have girls only baseball? Because girls are not capable?

Not sexist? :rolleyes:

This is what I love about being a female baseball fan; I am somehow less a participant in a sports-related community because of my biological sex. Nothing fails like being female, because the sports world takes part in discursive norms that are by definition, exclusionary. And somehow, I am supposed to believe it's "not sexist"! :rolleyes:

That's why we have the NBA and the WNBA. As opposed to the MNBA and the WNBA. It's because the WNBA is the marked form, equated with the female, lesser sex. It's pretty obvious the message that women in this culture get. And the sports world does nothing but reinforce that women are second-class citizens.

suicide_squeeze
02-23-2009, 11:38 PM
[quote=frikativ54;125639]Huh? Don't understand your analogy with seatbelts.


You know, I've read a LOT of your previous comments, on a LOT of different posts, Frik. You were even nice to me once, as I am a fairly new member here, and gave me a tip on what to use to post pics, and for that I was truly greatful (even though I used a different program another nice poster rcommended).

Then there was your infamous "harrassment" thread. That was kind of ugly.

With all due respect, I know you are absolutely and infinitely intitled to your own opinions........but in My opinion, I must say there is apparently a LOT you don't understand about a LOT of things. You will as you get a bit older and get a bit of "exposure" to things in life, I promise.

But in Major League Baseball........it's wood bats, or get out. That's not my opinion, it's God's word.

Just ask Brian Hillerich.;)

frikativ54
02-23-2009, 11:39 PM
Wood should always be the bat of choice for MLB - and to address an earlier comment about NCAA players who don't make it in the pros - many of them have never swung a wood bat until they hit the pros... and that's a HUGE adjustment from Aluminum.

- Chris

I appreciate your perspective from Rawlings, Chris. So - would you prefer if ballplayers used wood starting out? At a certain age? Just curious.

Vintagedeputy
02-23-2009, 11:41 PM
"Real baseball" as opposed "fake baseball"? Not sexist?

So - the inferior version they have for girls is not "real baseball"?

Softball?

Because girls are simply not capable of playing baseball?

They can't even have girls only baseball? Because girls are not capable?

Not sexist? :rolleyes:

This is what I love about being a female baseball fan; I am somehow less a participant in a sports-related community because of my biological sex. Nothing fails like being female, because the sports world takes part in discursive norms that are by definition, exclusionary. And somehow, I am supposed to believe it's "not sexist"! :rolleyes:

That's why we have the NBA and the WNBA. As opposed to the MNBA and the WNBA. It's because the WNBA is the marked form, equated with the female, lesser sex. It's pretty obvious the message that women in this culture get. And the sports world does nothing but reinforce that women are second-class citizens.

and yet, another intelligent thread, takes a violent detour and heads straight for the crapper....

frikativ54
02-23-2009, 11:43 PM
With all due respect, I know you are absolutely and infinitely intitled to your own opinions........but in My opinion, I must say there is apparently a LOT you don't understand about a LOT of things. You will as you get a bit older and get a bit of "exposure" to things in life, I promise.

So - maybe I'm not experienced with aluminum vs. wood. But I don't understand a LOT about a LOT of different things. Care to clarify here or in email?

allstarsplus
02-23-2009, 11:46 PM
and yet, another intelligent thread, takes a violent detour and heads straight for the crapper....

Well said. LOCK THIS ONE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

frikativ54
02-23-2009, 11:50 PM
Well said. LOCK THIS ONE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The biases operative here are so manifest to any objective observer, yet they don't even merit so much of a response from the GUU patriarchy.

chakes89
02-23-2009, 11:54 PM
Aluminum bats break would break a lot more than they already do if they were to be used be professionals

Vintagedeputy
02-23-2009, 11:55 PM
The rain in Spain stays mainly on the plain.

Seven silver swans swam silently seaward.

frikativ54
02-23-2009, 11:56 PM
The rain in Spain stays mainly on the plain.

Seven silver swans swam silently seaward.

What do rhymes and alliterations have to do with anything?

xpress34
02-24-2009, 12:01 AM
Once is too much. I don't have the time to pull out a bunch of articles, but I remember hearing a bunch of incidents in the past with people getting hurt by flying splinters of wood. I know there are efforts to address this, but I would really like to know how this is going to be eliminated.

Les -

I'm 45 and I LOVE the game and the TRADITION. I don't want to see MLB do what the NHL did and put NETS all the way down the baselines because people are affraid of Foul Balls and Broken Bats. That's why EVERY Major League ticket states (and I quote from the back of my Rox Opening Day ticket for 2009):

"Holder of this ticket assumes all risks and dangers of personal injury and other hazards arising from, or related to, the event for which the ticket is issued, whether occurring prior to, during or after the event/performance, including but not limited to flying objects or other hazards related to the event/performance."

As far as 'efforts to eliminate this'? I can't say I ever seen a Major Leaguer hurt by a broken bat - other than Tulo slamming his bat down last year and gashing his hand open when it split in half in his hand.

As far as the fans in the stands - if you aren't able - or don't want to pay attention to the action on the field, then you shouldn't sit so close... like the guys I see at every Rox game with the newspaper up in front of their face while the game is going on - sitting in the front row! Those are the guys who need to be hit by a foul ball ripping through their papers! If you don't want to pay attention to the game, go home or go back to work!



I have been struck by line drives while pitching in non-competitive softball, and I do know that it hurts. But perhaps I am not in a position to comment having not played college baseball or softball (career cut short - a story for another day).

Getting hit by a Line Drive with a Softball and a Line Drive with a baseball are two totally different things... you are comparing Apples to Oranges here.

Just my .02

- Chris

Vintagedeputy
02-24-2009, 12:03 AM
The chair is against the wall

John has a long mustache

suicide_squeeze
02-24-2009, 12:04 AM
So - maybe I'm not experienced with aluminum vs. wood. But I don't understand a LOT about a LOT of different things. Care to clarify here or in email?

Frik.......

All I am saying is you seem to take up arguments here...........to argue. They are not based on what......well, to be frank, everyone already knows by common sense.

Please, I am not trying to belittle you, or pick on you in any way. It's just obvious that your arguments are generally baseless. They start out as opinions, and quickly turninto full-fledge arguments.

Like your last comment rant about BigTruck and the "sexist" stuff. Look, if you can't figure out that females can't play MLB and be GOOD enough to make it......then NONE of us here can help you.

It's a genetic thing, Frik. Women can't perform the strength requirements to become a pro baseball player......Hell, Frik, MOST MEN can't do it. It's NOT just about talent....it's a genetic thing.

So if you want to tangle up "women in baseball" with "Aluminum bats", you're already going down down the wrong path. WHY? Because you have eliminated the most overwhelming PART of the equation to MAKE an argument based on common sense.......the "strength" factor.

Am I making sense to you? I hope so. Peace.....I want you to know you are as welcome to state your opinions as anyone.....but just try to be a little more fully equipped in substance when you take a stand, because it becomes a bit exasperating to try to get you to see the other side, when sometimes it's just so obvious.

chakes89
02-24-2009, 12:05 AM
Aluminum is far too dangerous for professional baseball

As far as the "they use it in college" argument, how many guys built like Albert Pujols, David Ortz and Adam Dunn do you see playing college baseball?

Comparing college players to professionals is like comparing Apples to Oranges

Comparing College Baseball to MILB/MLB is just absurd

Vintagedeputy
02-24-2009, 12:07 AM
Les -


As far as 'efforts to eliminate this'? I can't say I ever seen a Major Leaguer hurt by a broken bat - other than Tulo slamming his bat down last year and gashing his hand open when it split in half in his hand.


- Chris

There was a coach I believe that got a hunk of bat into his leg after it shattered. These instances are super rare though. The damage that would be inflicted by a flying aluminum bat is something that I dont want to witness.

frikativ54
02-24-2009, 12:08 AM
The chair is against the wall

John has a long mustache

Doesn't negate the veracity of anything I've already said.

chakes89
02-24-2009, 12:08 AM
There was a coach I believe that got a hunk of bat into his leg after it shattered. These instances are super rare though. The damage that would be inflicted by a flying aluminum bat is something that I dont want to witness.

Especially those crap Two-Piece Aluminum bats

suicide_squeeze
02-24-2009, 12:13 AM
xpress34......

In the 70's, Steve Yeager, while catching for the Dodgers had a broken splintered bat spear him in the neck, missing his jugular by......1/8"

That brought about the development of the piece that he wore that "hung down" from the bottom of the face mask, which was designed to protect the neck.


WAIT.......I mean it was an ALUMINUM bat that splintered!!!:eek: :D ;)

mariner_gamers
02-24-2009, 12:19 AM
The chair is against the wall

John has a long mustache

WOLVERINES!!!!!!

Vintagedeputy
02-24-2009, 12:20 AM
WOLVERINES!!!!!!

We have a winner! One of my favorite movies...

chakes89
02-24-2009, 12:23 AM
This thread would have a good discussion topic had someone not ruined it with their nonsense

I do believe a banning is in order

chakes89
02-24-2009, 12:24 AM
This thread would have been a good discussion topic had someone not ruined it with their nonsense

I do believe a banning is in order

Edit

mariner_gamers
02-24-2009, 12:24 AM
We have a winner! One of my favorite movies...

Me too!!!

xpress34
02-24-2009, 12:25 AM
So - maybe I'm not experienced with aluminum vs. wood. But I don't understand a LOT about a LOT of different things. Care to clarify here or in email?

the main thing with aluminum bats is the 'Trampoline Effect' as someone said earlier. Technically speaking, Aluminum bats are 'Tubes'. That is they are hollow inside - not solid like a wooden bat.

That 'hollow' core is what allows an aluminum bat to compress and expand - hence the 'trampoline effect' when it makes contact with a ball.

A wooden bat being solid, it doesn't compress and expand - if the wood is soft, it may compress, but it will not expand.

That expansion is what adds the extra velocity to the ball when it comes off the bat - particularly a softball.

As Newton's 3rd Law of Physics states - "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."

That said, a pitcher throws a ball to Batter A with a wood bat - the simply physics are the BALL (not the bat) compresses and expands at the moment of impact sending the ball the opposite direction from which it came with almost the same velocity at which it came in.

Pitcher throws a ball to Batter B with an aluminum bat - BOTH the BALL and the BAT Compress and expand exerting an EXTRA force on the ball when it goes back the opposite direction therefore INCREASING the Velocity above what it was when it was coming to the plate.

I hope that makes more sense to you.

And - as a traditionalist, if you let the Pros use Aluminum, I can say here without the slightest doubt that you would have to expand the outfield at EVERY MLB park because the HR #'s would be INSANE - and therefore destroy the sanctity of the Record Books even more than Roids have already done.

- Chris

xpress34
02-24-2009, 12:30 AM
WAIT.......I mean it was an ALUMINUM bat that splintered!!!:eek: :D ;)

:p Squeeze -

Thank you for adding more MLB knowledge to my brain... I don't think I've even heard that about Steve Yeager...

- Chris

frikativ54
02-24-2009, 12:31 AM
This thread would have a good discussion topic had someone not ruined it with their nonsense

I do believe a banning is in order

Of whom? I didn't ruin anything. I merely would like for the sexism to stop and for Vintage Deputy and frazn however you spell it to spot baiting me...

frikativ54
02-24-2009, 12:31 AM
Of whom? I didn't ruin anything. I merely would like for the sexism to stop and for Vintage Deputy and frazn however you spell it to spot baiting me...

that should say "stop"

chakes89
02-24-2009, 12:37 AM
Don't you just love the "No Edit" feature

I feel like an idiot when I leave out a word or mis-spell something

xpress34
02-24-2009, 12:38 AM
That expansion is what adds the extra velocity to the ball when it comes off the bat - particularly a softball.

Sorry all... that should have read "particularly a baseball".

Just wanted to clarify...

- Chris

Sluggo
02-24-2009, 12:40 AM
Enough with the genetics and WNBA references... :)

What's the earliest reference anyone remembers wrt aluminum vs. wood bats? I'd say 1989.

I remember a story probably around '89 or '90 involving then-Pittsburgh Pirate Bobby Bonilla playing some IF during batting practice. RJ Reynolds grabbed an aluminum bat and hit a few pitches for the heck of it. Reynolds sent a lazer Bonilla's way, Bonilla tried to field it, and the liner BUSTED THE WEBBING out of Bobby's glove!!

chakes89
02-24-2009, 12:41 AM
Of whom? I didn't ruin anything. I merely would like for the sexism to stop and for Vintage Deputy and frazn however you spell it to spot baiting me...
What sexism?

Softball and Baseball are 2 completely different things and there is a reason that guys play one and girls play the other

In my opinion, If you can do something drunk it's not a sport (Softball)

AND I have known/know many females that play softball in high school and college and I respect them as athletes (A few of them can throw harded than I ever could :D) but to say that softball and baseball are on the same level is insanity

chakes89
02-24-2009, 12:42 AM
What sexism?

Softball and Baseball are 2 completely different things and there is a reason that guys play one and girls play the other

In my opinion, If you can do something drunk it's not a sport (Softball)

AND I have known/know many females that play softball in high school and college and I respect them as athletes (A few of them can throw harder than I ever could :D) but to say that softball and baseball are on the same level is insanity
DAMN IT!

Edit for another freaking typo

NO EDIT is pissing me off :mad:

xpress34
02-24-2009, 12:57 AM
AND I have known/know many females that play softball in high school and college and I respect them as athletes (A few of them can throw harded than I ever could :D) but to say that softball and baseball are on the same level is insanity

You ever see Jennie Finch throw???

They had her on an episode of Sports Science to test the impact of a MLB fastball (I don't remember the pitcher - I was looking at Jennie) versus Jennie's fast pitch.

The MLB guy recorded pretty astounding numbers on the pressure plate.

But Jennie - not to be outdone - SHATTERED the Pressure Plate on her 1st Pitch!!!

There's some MLB pitchers I'd rather face than her!!!

- Chris

Sluggo
02-24-2009, 01:00 AM
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n310/indycarseries/padlock.jpg

Please? For the love of Pete?

chakes89
02-24-2009, 01:03 AM
You ever see Jennie Finch throw???

They had her on an episode of Sports Science to test the impact of a MLB fastball (I don't remember the pitcher - I was looking at Jennie) versus Jennie's fast pitch.

The MLB guy recorded pretty astounding numbers on the pressure plate.

But Jennie - not to be outdone - SHATTERED the Pressure Plate on her 1st Pitch!!!

There's some MLB pitchers I'd rather face than her!!!

- Chris
Unless she was throwing from 60 feet 6 inches she is throwing harder from a much shorter distance and a softball is much harder and a lot bigger than a baseball

frikativ54
02-24-2009, 01:18 AM
What sexism?

Softball and Baseball are 2 completely different things and there is a reason that guys play one and girls play the other

In my opinion, If you can do something drunk it's not a sport (Softball)

AND I have known/know many females that play softball in high school and college and I respect them as athletes (A few of them can throw harded than I ever could :D) but to say that softball and baseball are on the same level is insanity

Can you just cut the sexism already? You are making blatantly sexist statements, and I would appreciate if you would just stop. Women have been treated as second-class citizens for far too long in this country. Only 100 years ago, women couldn't even vote.

You don't see sexism because you are a member of the privileged, unmarked sex. It's not there for you - but if you grew up knowing that no matter what you achieve, it was not enough - you could never play baseball, you would be relegated to softball or if you were great at basketball, the WNBA not the NBA - because you couldn't be as good, then you would feel just like I do.

It's like the Major Leagues vs. the Negro Leagues
Major Leagues = unmarked
Negro Leagues = marked

NBA = unmarked
WNBA = marked for inferior women

frikativ54
02-24-2009, 01:19 AM
Unless she was throwing from 60 feet 6 inches she is throwing harder from a much shorter distance and a softball is much harder and a lot bigger than a baseball

But softballs tend to straighten out as they reach homeplate, so they are easier to hit, from what I hear.

xpress34
02-24-2009, 01:20 AM
Unless she was throwing from 60 feet 6 inches she is throwing harder from a much shorter distance and a softball is much harder and a lot bigger than a baseball

Chakes -

I'll give you she was throwing at a shorter distance - like 55' or something - whatever the fast pitch distance is - and yes, she had more velocity - and yes a softball is bigger than a baseball... but harder??? Not quite. Softballs are not wound with the same density as a baseball. I'll take getting hit by a softball over a baseball all day long...

But I digress - we're getting way off the topic here now...

- Chris

Capital-Sports
02-24-2009, 01:27 AM
Not sure how this topic came onto an issue about "sexist" but one thing I know...... WOOD over aluminum.....END OF STORY!

xpress34
02-24-2009, 01:30 AM
So - maybe I'm not experienced with aluminum vs. wood. But I don't understand a LOT about a LOT of different things. Care to clarify here or in email?

Les -

Not trying to add fuel to the fire here, but you asked me this question like two pages ago - I took the time to give you an honest and hopefully insightful answer to the ACTUAL topic of this thread and instead of giving any feedback on what I gave you, you do seem more interested in keeping this 'fight' going about sexism, etc. rather than really learning about wood vs aluminum...

Just my personal observation.

Vintagedeputy
02-24-2009, 07:51 AM
Not sure how this topic came onto an issue about "sexist"........

Its very simple. Its Frik.

Every time she gets into a thread, it goes right down the toilet. I'm not baiting, teasing, enciting, enticing, arguing, or anything else other than simply stating a fact. I think the membership will agree.

In another thread, we went from discussing BMH's webpage and what an asset he is to the hobby to complaining about wood bats to saving trees to protecting the homes of squirrels.

In this thread, we tried to revive the wood vs. aluminum conversation and now members are being accussed of being sexist.

Anyone else seeing a pattern here?

GarkoCollector
02-24-2009, 08:07 AM
The fact of the matter is that Women do not perform to the same standard of sports that require strength or hand-eye coordination that men do. I love women, I have nothing against them, but to be honest, I can see the same thing in a WNBA game that I can see at a local High School girl's game. The excitement level is nil.

Women in general are not as fast or strong as men. 100 meters in the Olympics. Women are light years behind men in the record books time wise. Is it because they are suppressed due to their gender? NO! Its that they arent as fast and never will be. Its not sexist, its science.

You could take a decent High School Baseball player and the very best College Softball hitter in the country and she wont hit a baseball or a softball further than he will. Again, its not sexist, its science.

And by the way:
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk301/GarkoCollector/Other%20Stuff/OFFTOPICTHREAD.gif

I thought this summed things up perfectly.
Tom

joelsabi
02-24-2009, 08:22 AM
after seeing pujol hit padre pitcher chris young straight in the face last year, i cant imagine what would have happen with an aluminum bat. i would not mind banning aluminum bats at the high school level either. sometimes the talent level between two high school team can be very large and the intimidation of hitting one straight up the middle is so tempting and also a dangerous proposition.

aeneas01
02-24-2009, 08:35 AM
if you can get past the abundance of bad information out there, much of which is fueled by extremely rare (albeit very tragic) injuries, i think you would be extremely hard-pressed to present a convincing argument that aluminum bats are any more dangerous than wood bats - studies have been conducted ad nauseum, ranging from from sweet spot size, trampoline effect, velocity after impact, etc., which suggest aluminum bats simply do not pose a greater danger. in a 10-year study ('91-'01) more deaths were caused by thrown balls than balls hit by aluminum bats.

as far as youth baseball is concerned, i believe that age brackets and the enormous gulf in athletic ability is the major culprit when it comes to serious bat-related injuries, not bat composition. for example, 9-12 year-olds (or, potentially, 8.5-12.5 year-olds) playing together in the "major" division with a 46' pitching distance is clearly a recipe for disaster. in fact it's not at all unusual for kids in this division to have easily outgrown the field - a big, athletic 12.5 year-old batting with only 46' between the mound and home plate is a very scary sight - regardless if the player is swinging metal or wood. even at the high school and college levels the disparity in age, physical development and athletic ability is a major contributor to bat-related injuries imo.

i played baseball throughout my youth (i was team mvp my junior and senior years - atta boys for robert!) and now i have the extreme pleasure of watching my son play baseball. he has made the all-star team every year he has played but it wasn't until he played in the "majors" all-stars that i became extremely uneasy. no surprise here, but the kids that tend to make the all-stars at that level are the big kids on the team (my son is a big kid) because they can usually hit and throw harder. so the "majors" all-stars consist of a bunch of big kids playing on a tiny field - i was scared for my son when he pitched and played third and i was scared for the pitcher and third baseman when my son was at the plate. would i have rested any easier if the boys were swing wood? not one bit.

aluminum bats have been a godsend for money-strapped school budgets and recreation leagues - even though some can be pretty pricey, they certainly last longer and are cheaper in the long run. and i suspect they aren't going anywhere. would i like to see aluminum bats in the majors? would i like to hear the "twang" of metal as i enter a pro ball park during batting practice? hell no! never! heck, i'm still trying to get used to black and pink bats! double heck - it took years to get over the navy blue rings on adirondack bats!

speaking of my all-star, here he is through the years (his age at the time is circled) - man does time fly by. thankfully he's now 13 and playing on the big boys field - what a blast to watch!

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/aeneas1/th.jpg

...

joelsabi
02-24-2009, 08:45 AM
if you can get past the abundance of bad information out there, much of which is fueled by extremely rare (albeit very tragic) injuries, i think you would be extremely hard-pressed to present a convincing argument that aluminum bats are any more dangerous than wood bats - studies have been conducted ad nauseum, ranging from from sweet spot size, trampoline effect, velocity after impact, etc., which suggest aluminum bats simply do not pose a greater danger. in a 10-year study ('91-'01) more deaths were caused by thrown balls than balls hit by aluminum bats.

as far as youth baseball is concerned, i believe that age brackets and the enormous gulf in athletic ability is the major culprit when it comes to serious bat-related injuries, not bat composition. for example, 9-12 year-olds (or, potentially, 8.5-12.5 year-olds) playing together in the "major" division with a 46' pitching distance is clearly a recipe for disaster. in fact it's not at all unusual for kids in this division to have easily outgrown the field - a big, athletic 12.5 year-old batting with only 46' between the mound and home plate is a very scary sight - regardless if the player is swinging metal or wood. even at the high school and college levels the disparity in age, physical development and athletic ability is a major contributor to bat-related injuries imo.

i played baseball throughout my youth (i was team mvp my junior and senior years - atta boys for robert!) and now i have the extreme pleasure of watching my son play baseball. he has made the all-star team every year he has played but it wasn't until he played in the "majors" all-stars that i became extremely uneasy. no surprise here, but the kids that tend to make the all-stars at that level are the big kids on the team (my son is a big kid) because they can usually hit and throw harder. so the "majors" all-stars consist of a bunch of big kids playing on a tiny field - i was scared for my son when he pitched and played third and i was scared for the pitcher and third baseman when my son was at the plate. would i have rested any easier if the boys were swing wood? not one bit.

aluminum bats have been a godsend for money-strapped school budgets and recreation leagues - even though some can be pretty pricey, they certainly last longer and are cheaper in the long run. and i suspect they aren't going anywhere. would i like to see aluminum bats in the majors? would i like to hear the "twang" of metal as i enter a pro ball park during batting practice? hell no! never! heck, i'm still trying to get used to black and pink bats! double heck - it took years to get over the navy blue rings on adirondack bats!

speaking of my all-star, here he is through the years (his age at the time is circled) - man does time fly by. thankfully he's now 13 and playing on the big boys field - what a blast to watch!

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/aeneas1/th.jpg

...

aeneas1, nice post as always. the disparity in ability between pitcher and hitter or the just the brute strength of the hitter in comparison to the dimension of the field would be big factors. there was another thread where someone mentioned parents from an entire little league team pulled their kids based on one large kid who threw really hard off the mound.

also i thinks major injuries rather than deaths should be the main stats to look at for baseball bat injuries.

Vintagedeputy
02-24-2009, 08:54 AM
speaking of my all-star, here he is through the years (his age at the time is circled) - man does time fly by. thankfully he's now 13 and playing on the big boys field - what a blast to watch!

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/aeneas1/th.jpg

...

Diamondbacks, Padres, Indians, Mariners, Red Sox....he sure gets traded alot!

I think there's some collusion by the owners to keep him from being a 5 and 10 year man. :)

skyking26
02-24-2009, 09:19 AM
Diamondbacks, Padres, Indians, Mariners, Red Sox....he sure gets traded alot!

I think there's some collusion by the owners to keep him from being a 5 and 10 year man. :)
Now this is where it is at!!! The hobby is dead, not a thing going on and especially on these boards. As usual, we are listening to insightful chat about saving squirrels, sexism, and God knows what is next. I personally have had enough. My son just completed his 6th grade basketball season with a nice banquet last night; and now we move onto 11/12 baseball season.

I think I'll follow that instead of the topics that continuously are allowed to be held here. Topics should be held to game used only.

Enjoy.

RK

hrvatwill
02-24-2009, 09:27 AM
Without taking a stance on the ultimate environmental friendliness of the wooden vs. aluminum bat debate, I would like to submit that the issue is broader than just the end product that ballplayers use.

To make aluminum, a great deal of bauxite must first be mined from the earth from which the alumina is subsequently recovered via a series of complex chemical processes.

The alumina must then be smelted and smelters are notorious for using tremendous amounts of power (in fact, smelting may be the most energy intensive process in the US economy), much of which is generated by carbon based fuels that produce non environmentally friendly emissions. At the end of the day, it takes four tons of bauxite to make one ton of aluminum.

Against that backdrop, I would be hesitant to look upon aluminum bats as a "green solution", not that anybody said that and to be clear, I am not attacking anything that was said or any individual that said anything. Just thought it might be relevant to the debate.

Moving on to my personal preference, I used both wood and aluminum while playing little league, high school and college and believe it or not, I once hit a HR a little bit over 500 ft with an aluminum bat, something which I could not even begin to approach with a wooden bat. I also once had a tryout with a MLB team (for their minor league system, of course) and they made me use wood to remove the distortive effects of the aluminum (as I batted left-handed, they also made me hit off of a left-handed pitcher the entire time :( ).

I guess my point is that aluminum can mask a lot of sins and as a result, I am against its use in the pros. Or perhaps more eloquently, hitting is an art and the wooden bat, its paintbrush.

bigtime59
02-24-2009, 11:38 AM
I would love for some actual "bat people" to weigh in on this, because I may be wrong, but here's what I believe to be true...
The argument shouldn't be a simplistic wood vs metal one. It should be wood vs metal vs composite. IIRC, composite bats can be "tuned" just about any way you want them ("hotter" or "deader").
If there someday came to pass a shortage of wood so great that it required non-wood bats in pro baseball, I'm sure we'd see the introduction of "detuned" composite bats that mimicked the properties of wood bats as closely as possible. In fact, I think that's what should be used in high school and college now. You'd have a much better feel for how pitchers would perform against wood bats if they'd been pitching to players swinging something that performed like a wood bat.
(Sorry to have injected something like nuance into this thread...and to have not mentioned saving the farting squirrels!)

Mark
bigtime39@aol.com

camarokids
02-24-2009, 11:51 AM
You ever see Jennie Finch throw???

- Chris

I saw it too, she is hot!

If I remember correctly, the major league batter could not hit one of her pitches.....

chakes89
02-24-2009, 12:34 PM
Sean Casey was the only player to get a hit off of her when she made that publicity tour a few years ago

bigtruck260
02-24-2009, 01:13 PM
"Real baseball" as opposed "fake baseball"? Not sexist?

So - the inferior version they have for girls is not "real baseball"?

Softball?

Because girls are simply not capable of playing baseball?

They can't even have girls only baseball? Because girls are not capable?

Not sexist? :rolleyes:

This is what I love about being a female baseball fan; I am somehow less a participant in a sports-related community because of my biological sex. Nothing fails like being female, because the sports world takes part in discursive norms that are by definition, exclusionary. And somehow, I am supposed to believe it's "not sexist"! :rolleyes:

That's why we have the NBA and the WNBA. As opposed to the MNBA and the WNBA. It's because the WNBA is the marked form, equated with the female, lesser sex. It's pretty obvious the message that women in this culture get. And the sports world does nothing but reinforce that women are second-class citizens.

Frik - get over yourself.

REAL Baseball = baseball where the players are of adult strength and the pitchers are able to throw the baseball from 60 and 1/2 feet at a speed above 75 mph. The batters are strong enough to connect on a pitch that speed and occasionally drive the ball 300+ feet.

Now, if you have played at that level great for you and I am impressed.

7th grade softball and intramural baseball does not count as REAL< ORGANIZED BASEBALL. It is becoming hard to be a friend of yours here.

xpress34
02-24-2009, 02:09 PM
I guess my point is that aluminum can mask a lot of sins and as a result, I am against its use in the pros. Or perhaps more eloquently, hitting is an art and the wooden bat, its paintbrush.


GREAT statement!!! I could not agree more!!!

xpress34
02-24-2009, 02:18 PM
I would love for some actual "bat people" to weigh in on this, because I may be wrong, but here's what I believe to be true...
The argument shouldn't be a simplistic wood vs metal one. It should be wood vs metal vs composite. IIRC, composite bats can be "tuned" just about any way you want them ("hotter" or "deader").
If there someday came to pass a shortage of wood so great that it required non-wood bats in pro baseball, I'm sure we'd see the introduction of "detuned" composite bats that mimicked the properties of wood bats as closely as possible. In fact, I think that's what should be used in high school and college now. You'd have a much better feel for how pitchers would perform against wood bats if they'd been pitching to players swinging something that performed like a wood bat.
(Sorry to have injected something like nuance into this thread...and to have not mentioned saving the farting squirrels!)

Mark
bigtime39@aol.com

Mark -

Your questions reminded me of something I forgot in an earlier post - another reason Aluminum will not make the Majors - and also why you won't see Composites (Graphite and such)...

The MLB rules on bats disallowed what they consider 'soft woods' - such as Willow and the like back in the 30's or something due to their 'whip effect' when being swung.

By that, I mean that like a Graphite shaft golf club (compared to a steel shaft) has greater 'flex' when you swing it, therefore creating greater velocity at the point of impact.

Both Aluminum bats and Composite bats also have a 'flex' tendency which is why some bats have been 'outlawed' by both USSSA and ASA Softball Associations.

Yes, there are some pictures of players in swing where you can see the Ash or Maple bats bowing or flexing, but that is minor compared to aluminum and composite.

Think about this - if a player can 'flex' a hardwood bat like that, imagine the increased flex he would get with an aluminum or composite bat.

I hope that answers your question...

Vintagedeputy
02-24-2009, 02:50 PM
There's a guy here locally that makes things out of some type of polycarbonate plastic stuff. He makes axe handles, gun stocks and baseball bats. I'd love to see a guy like Pujols give one of these a whirl...

aeneas01
02-24-2009, 10:02 PM
The argument shouldn't be a simplistic wood vs metal one. It should be wood vs metal vs composite. IIRC, composite bats can be "tuned" just about any way you want them ("hotter" or "deader").

i think this is moot given that non-wood bat performance standards (read: limits) were adopted by the ncaa, high schools and other baseball organizations in 2000 to ensure that, among other things, batted ball speeds of non-wood bats did not exceed the speeds of wood bats. here's a very informative read on the subject found at the u.s. consumer product safety commission website....

http://www.cpsc.gov/LIBRARY/FOIA/Foia01/pubcom/baseball.pt1.pdf


....

joelsabi
03-18-2010, 07:53 PM
High School Pitcher in Coma after Line-Drive Hit

Wed Mar 17, 12:28PM PT - AP 1:43 | 155395 views

A Northern California high school pitcher is in a medically-induced coma after getting hit in the head by a line drive. The incident is re-igniting the call to ban metal bats in youth baseball. (March 17)




http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/high-school-pitcher-in-coma-after-line-drive-hit-18673917;_ylt=AhRV_rObM.Qb0asZ7cVOfBCz174F;_ylu=X3 oDMTE3ZTY4bW5tBHBvcwMyBHNlYwNtb3N0LXBvcHVsYXIEc2xr A2hpZ2hzY2hvb2xwaQ--

spartakid
03-18-2010, 09:01 PM
Wow, I didn't realize this was national news. A kid from my school was the one who hit him... He (Obviously) feels really bad about it.:(

ballhawknet
03-18-2010, 09:45 PM
Im sorry I missed this thread when it started over a year ago.

I think most if not all schools and Little Leagues have rules as to what type of aluminum bats are ok to use these days. They have to be BESR certified ( which measures the maximum speed at which a ball leaves the bat ) and at least in Little League where I coach , the umpires will line
up the bats and check the before the game.

From every study Ive read a wood bat will hit a ball just as far if swung at the same speed . Its bat speed not the aluminum. The bat compaines use to "cheat" by making a 33 inch bat that only weighed 28 ( or less ) ounces . Now the rules specify a -3 difference in length weight.

Ive tried the newer aluminum bats , and the trampoline effect is no where
near they way it used to be. They seem dead to me. I wonder what exact type of aluminum bat was being used here in the North California case.

Personally I would like to see all wood in all leagues. But that will never happen. It is a money issue , aluminum lasts forever...for the most part.

A side note , about 7-8 years ago ...I think , the White Sox where using an aluminum bat in batting practice. Many of the players where doing it.
I remember standing on the concourse at Comiskey and Ray Durham was
bouncing them of the back concourse wall and Thomas was coming within 50 feet of hitting the scoreboard !!! This lasted for about 3 weeks !!! It was crazy fun Good Time Ballhawking !!!

BMH
03-19-2010, 02:30 PM
Wow, I didn't realize this was national news. A kid from my school was the one who hit him... He (Obviously) feels really bad about it.:(


Spartakid,

Can you give us any more information about the incident? Every article we have seen keeps going back and forth between the batter using an aluminum or a composite bat. Each article never really says. Plus, I must ask, do you know what brand bat he was using?

Manram
03-19-2010, 05:36 PM
Spartakid,

Can you give us any more information about the incident? Every article we have seen keeps going back and forth between the batter using an aluminum or a composite bat. Each article never really says. Plus, I must ask, do you know what brand bat he was using?

I also live near where this happened. I am pretty sure, but not 100% sure that he was using a composite demarini

spartakid
03-19-2010, 07:09 PM
Spartakid,

Can you give us any more information about the incident? Every article we have seen keeps going back and forth between the batter using an aluminum or a composite bat. Each article never really says. Plus, I must ask, do you know what brand bat he was using?

I don't know a ton, I've just heard him and some other people talking about it. I'm not mistaken, I believe they said it was a white Stealth. Not sure if that tells you whether or not it's a composite, I don't know a ton about bats like this.

BMH
03-19-2010, 08:06 PM
Sounds like it was a composite, each story I've read so far keeps switching from aluminum to composite. Thanks for the information; ever since the Montana ruling I've been pretty "gun-shy" every time I hear of an accident.

Any updates so far on his condition?

joelsabi
03-19-2010, 09:25 PM
here another news update with video.

http://www.ktvu.com/news/22860726/detail.html

they show a coach talking about a bat but its a demarini bat he is showing in the video.