Mickey Mantle Game Used Fielding Glove on eBay!

[camarokids]

What do you all think of this glove. Appears to be legit.....

The pictures are not up close enough to read all the stampings on the glove.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/1954-56-MICKEY-MANTLE-USED-PERSONAL-MODEL-GLOVE-MEARS_W0QQitemZ120346898730QQihZ002QQcategoryZ5011 7QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[camarokids]

Dear Mods,
Could you please correct the typo in the title???

Should be Micky....not Michy

Thanks

[spartakid]

you mean MICKEY....

[camarokids]

you mean MICKEY....

darn it I would have had a typo on top of a typo, thanks!

mods please fix....

[sammy]

That glove sold at auction last year for a few thousand, if I remember correctly.

The glove is a model that was also available to the public and shows excessive and heavy wear. The use is more then what is expected on a pro model glove and is consistent with being used by another person.

The only link to ownership by Mickey Mantle is an ambiguous letter with the glove from someone named "Uncle Rog" to "Bud".

Uncle Rog also states he played with the glove.

Being as there is not any contact information on the letter, or anything to identify these people, MEARS could not verify anything stated in the letter. They do state the glove could have been made for either Mantle or the general public.

Anybody interested in the glove will have to determine how credible the provenance letter is with respect to the glove.

[camarokids]

Dang your good Sammy.

As usual a very informative post....

I cannot zoom in on the letters....

[sammy]

If anyone is interested in tracking this glove back to the original auction, here is the information.

The glove was Lot 4 in the November 15, 2007, Vintage Authentics auction.

The glove sold for 7050.00.

[joelsabi]

FYI, copy and paste the Q&A


Q: TSA is not right. You want to know who can give you the truth? One man - Denny Esken. He has the connections to Rawlings to give you the real facts, like it or not. Authenticators and auction houses (the sleazy ones) hate him, as he tells the truth and isn't in it for the money. Clearly you are very defensive about this glove, and when some guy offered you 250K, you seemed to want to fight him. That's not normal. And no, Mantle did NOT have an endorsed model in his rookie year. Maybe you like TSA because they tell you what you want to hear. Understandable. Sleazy as a seller, but understandable in this business. Why be like them? Try to be better...if you can.
May-06-10
A: Im not defensive about this glove the facts that "TSA" gave me on this glove defends it. The person that offered 250K has to be screened its a big transaction so he/she must be given all the facts before making such a large purchase thats all. I did not nor do i ever want to fight with him/her or anyone else for that matter other then to give it the acid test so the gold can show itself this is normal. As you may know by now Mickey Mantle has 2 recognized "ROOKIE" years 1951 and 1952 according to the "BECKETT" sports cards price guide. When you say Mickey Mantle did NOT have a signature endorsed model glove in his "rookie" year which "rookie" year are you refering to 1951 or 1952. Because "TSA" states that this Mickey Mantle model "MM4" glove was used by Mantle in 1952. I have been told by other posters that Mantle did not have a signature endorsed model glove until 1954. Here is what "TSA" had to say on the matter: "This is not correct if this was said all while neglecting the fact that since early 1950 different glove features were added on "RAWLINGS" gloves and branded with new "PATENT NUMBERS". In early 1950 "RAWLINGS" gloves had no "patent" numbers branded on them by late 1954 "RAWLINGS" gloves had 3 different patent #s branded on their gloves one for each of the 3 new glove features. Mickey Mantle is seen in many photos from 1951, 1952 and 1953 holding and using "RAWLINGS" gloves. Mickey Mantle was using "RAWLINGS" gloves for 3 years with the N.Y. Yankees WHILE having no signed endorsement contract with "RAWLINGS" for them to make gloves for him. As you can see this makes no common or bussiness sense whatsoever for Mickey Mantle to use "RAWLINGS" gloves for 3 years and not make a penny as a result of it but yet signature endorsed stamped pro H&B Louisville Slugger bats were sent to Mantle 1 year before he turned pro. Mickey Mantle was a bussiness man first then a baseball player his father taught him that including baseball since he was 6 years old". Thank You

Q: TSA is not right. You want to know who can give you the truth? One man - Denny Esken. He has the connections to Rawlings to give you the real facts, like it or not. Authenticators and auction houses (the sleazy ones) hate him, as he tells the truth and isn't in it for the money. Clearly you are very defensive about this glove, and when some guy offered you 250K, you seemed to want to fight him. That's not normal. And no, Mantle did NOT have an endorsed model in his rookie year. Maybe you like TSA because they tell you what you want to hear. Understandable. Sleazy as a seller, but understandable in this business. Why be like them? Try to be better...if you can.

May-06-10
A: I dont care much about names "TSA" or any other as long as they have their facts right and i found out to my surprise that "TSA" happens to be right in this case. You say Denny Esken can give me the truth on this glove then have him contact me you seem to know him. I can promise you this i will respond to whatever he may say about this glove no matter how critical he might be. I did meet Mr. Esken once it was on 2008 at the baseball FANFEST in Manhattan New York City at the Jacob Javits Center. He seemed very distracted with so much at the time and spacy too i wanted to feel him out a bit and not to prejudge him wrongly so i left. I came back atleast 4 other times and each he got more and more weird and spacy lol what its true. I wanted to ask him a few questions about this Mantle "MM4" model glove and other high end game used vintage baseball gloves i have. He payed me no mind but whenever someone he knew passed by or came up to him he jumped up right away saying "HI HOW ARE YOU" lol and talked with them for an extra long amount of time lol. I know he did this on purpose to get rid of me hoping i would go away look i know all of this sounds crazy but this is what happened. Well here i am anyway he got rid of me alright lol what a small world maybe he changed im willing to give him another chance. At the time he had a Mickey Mantle glove on display a glove that Mr. Esken claims Mantle used in 1956 i took some real nice pictures of it really nice looking glove. I was told by "TSA" that 1956 was a very important year for Mickey Mantle and that if this supposed 1956 glove was used by him then this glove would be very rare indeed. I did ask Mr. Esken what this supposed game used 1956 Mantle glove would be worth and what was he asking for it. He did give me an answer i will not mention the amount here not without his permission. All this taught me one thing all over again to never look down on anyone because this world we live in is even smaller then we knew. Thank You
Q: Is this some sort of joke? An MM4 autograph model glove is is a game used Mantle glove? Somebody needs to authenticate your authenticator. Sure hope you didn't actually pay real money for that COA.
May-06-10
A: Why do you know something i should know then tell it. This is no joke but if you dont tell me what you know you will look like a joke.


Q: Hi, My name is Scott, I am doing research on a Mantle glove identification book with Joe Philips ,the Glove Collector, your glove was made in 1954 or later, it says MM 4, this glove was produced in 1954 to 1958 and was a mid grade glove. Mantle would have used the much finer MM that would have been given to him by Rawlings. Please feel free to get intouch with Joe via his web site or me by responding to Email. just want to save you a problem if I am right. also please take a better picture of the strap and the patch. Patch should have white bar above the Rawlings and say St Louis for 1954 -55 your patch looks like the later 1956 or 1957 patch. good luck
Apr-28-10
A: Hello Scott welcome thank you for your imput here is what "TSA" had to say on the matter: "If the Mickey Mantle glove model "MM4" was produced starting in "1954" then why does this Mickey Mantle model "MM4" glove that "TSA" has authenticated have no "ANCHORED WEB" feature on the outer glove pocket center. After all this glove is also a model "MM4" so it should have it but yet this glove does not have the "ANCHORED WEB" feature. The reason why is because in "1954" the "ANCHORED WEB" feature was introduced by RAWLINGS and this is what makes this "MICKEY MANTLE MODEL MM4" glove that "TSA" has authenticated a earlier then 1954 glove". Is "TSA" right you now have the chance anytime you choose to show why they are not right take your time. I did contact "JOE PHILLIPS" several months ago about a "1954-56 MICKEY MANTLE MODEL MM" glove that i sold right here on ebay couple of months ago. I wanted to know if Mantle ever used this 1954-56 model "MM" glove and if so would Mr. Phillips authenticated for me. He said he was not sure if Mantle ever used it and that he would not authenticated it for me. I bought a bunch of books and other game used glove related material from him which at the time it helped but not with this "1952 Mickey Mantle model "MM4" glove. Well now you can inform him about it i dont mind i would like to know his imput as well. Dont get me wrong very nice guy really very respectful but so is the guy in the local Dunkin Donuts he too is nice and thats why he will work there for the rest of his life. Here is what else "TSA" said about this Mickey Mantle model "MM4" glove: "By 1950 the RAWLINGS glove patch was made a bit wider and the words "ST.LOUIS" were also removed from the RAWLINGS glove patch. In 1952 a new feature called the "SNUGGER ADJUSTMENT" was introduced by RAWLINGS on glove wrist straps and in 1954 another new feature was introduced called "ANCHORED WEB" it can be found on the outer area of the glove pocket in the center shaped like the letter "X".


Q: You should contact this "Total Sports Authenticators" outfit and demand a return of whatever money you paid them for this COA. Again, let me stress this point: It is a proven and verifiable FACT that Rawlings did not produce the MM4 model glove until 1954. Yes, Mantle may have used Rawlings gloves prior to that- Rawlings had been in business for nearly 60 years by then. But he could not possibly have used an MM4 model glove in 1952 BECAUSE RAWLINGS DID NOT BEGIN PRODUCING THAT MODEL UNTIL 1954. I would suggest having this authenticated by someone that actually knows what they're talking about. Or, better yet, save your money because what people are telling you is true. This is a common glove, produced in huge quantities and sold through retail outlets...beginning in 1954. Try contacting Rawlings through their web site- they can verify this.
Apr-28-10
A: I have contacted "TSA" and did ask for a refund they said no problem they gave me my money back and told me that ill be back. They also gave me a book worth of provable facts as to why this Mickey Mantle model "MM4" glove is exactly what "TSA" saids it is. But before i even go further you state strongly "It is a proven and verifiable FACT that Rawlings did not produce the MM4 model glove until 1954" okay prove it or SIT DOWN. You want to know why im so upset its because everyone is an expert but they cant be found whenever real questions and problems arise. No more pretending ok i went through a similar mess of he said she said a few months back with a bat i have up for auction its a "1979 JOHNNY BENCH" game used bat that "TSA" authenticated. In the end of all that he said she said mess started by the critics looking for their 15 minutes of fame "TSA" was right and the critics/experts were wrong. No one gave me any real provable facts and answers just very strong personal comments such as all i have is a promo/souvenir "1979 JOHHNY BENCH BAT" yet no one prove it how sick. The OWNER himself of Louisville Slugger got involved MR. HILLERICH he spoke his madness of how he consulted with several bat workers at the H&B bat factory that they have over 40 years of experience. He said that i have a "1979 JOHHNY BENCH FOIL STAMPED BAT" he was wrong. Then he said no bat errors were ever made on any "1979 JOHHNY BENCH PRO BATS" yet i have the proof its a "1979 JOHHNY BENCH GAME USED BAT" without a model number branded on the barrel thats an error. Take a look i have the bat up on ebay. At the time i did ask "TSA" wtf is going on here why are they saying these things and are they correct. What "TSA" told me was that they were all right & wrong. In 1979 "TSA" said "H&B LS" did make promo/souvenir bats for the public made to "JB" exact bat specs & 34.5 in lenght but the barrel of these bats did not have "JB" name braded but rather "TEAM NAMES" like (CHICAGO WHITE SOX).


Q: your contention that this is a glove used by mickey mantle in 1952 is so full of holes i don't even know where to start. mantle did not even have a rawlings glove that had his endorsed stamped signature on it until 1954.most importantly the glove he used was an mm personal model glove. the mm4 major league that you have shown was a smaller glove and was never used by mantle at all. anybody who is familiar w/ mantle gloves knows this.the only similarity is that they both have the snugger adjustment on the wrist strap.your glove,in the condition shown, is worth about $20.i'm sure other people have probably pointed all of this out to you by now.i hesitate to use the word fraud but how this tsa company could authenticate this glove without having more evidence than you have listed is beyond me.leaving this item ,listed as it is ,on ebay is probably not a good idea.just some friendly advise. T
Apr-27-10
A: You may be right or wrong i dont know but here is what "TSA" wrote me regarding your question: "To say that Mickey Mantle did not have a "RAWLINGS" glove that had his endorsed stamped signature on it until 1954 would not be correct. Mantle is seen in many photos from 1951, 1952 and 1953 holding and using "RAWLINGS" gloves. If what you say is true it would mean that Mickey Mantle was using "RAWLINGS" gloves for 3 years with the N.Y. Yankees WHILE having no signed endorsement contract with "RAWLINGS" for them to make gloves for him. The bat maker that Mickey Mantle eventually went with to make pro bats for him was "LOUISVILLE SLUGGER H&B". They sent him signature PRO bats in 1950 yet Mantle joined the major leagues and the N.Y. Yankees in 1951 so he recieved pro bats 1 year earlier. As you can see this makes no common or bussiness sense whatsoever for Mickey Mantle to use "RAWLINGS" gloves for 3 years and not make a penny as a result of it but yet signature endorsed stamped pro H&B Louisville Slugger bats were sent to Mantle 1 year before he turned pro. What most people did not know about Mantle is that he was a bussiness man first then a baseball player his father taught him that including baseball since Mantle was 6 years old. This is what happened in 1951 Mickey Mantle was a 19 years old switch hitter which is very rare. As a result of this his fame grew and lets not forget he was also a N.Y. Yankee be to be. The glove maker "RAWLINGS" knowing all of this jumped on him right away to get him to sign with them but his first year with the N.Y. Yankess 1951 he got hurt. In 1952 his fame really grew in part because he also played the whole season unlike 1951 when he played half of the season. Mickey Mantle used both the "MM" AND THE "MM4" model gloves. He was such a rebel that he used "KREN" "HANNA BATRITE" and "ADIRONDACK" BATS all while under bat contract with H&B Louisville Slugger since 1950. It would not matter to him if it helped him play better and win".


Q: Please respond to Rawlings claim that they didn't produce the MM4 model until 1954
Apr-27-10
A: Thank you for your question here is what "TSA" wrote me regarding your question: "If RAWLINGS said this then they would be wrong but i doubt they said such a thing. Here is why if the Mickey Mantle glove model "MM4" was produced starting in "1954" then why does this Mickey Mantle model "MM4" glove that "TSA" has authenticated have no "ANCHORED WEB" feature on the outer glove pocket center. After all this glove is also a model "MM4" so it should have it but yet this glove does not have the "ANCHORED WEB" feature. The reason why is because in "1954" the "ANCHORED WEB" feature was introduced by RAWLINGS and this is what makes this "MICKEY MANTLE MODEL MM4" glove that "TSA" has authenticated a earlier then 1954 glove". Thank You

Q: Will you accept $250,000.00 for this glove? If so, who do I make the check payable to? Thank you,
Apr-27-10
A: I will not accept a penny not until you tell me why you are willing to pay so much money for a glove you know nothing about. Ask whatever question you may have besides this glove is worth so much more its the only one thats has surfaced so far.

[MSpecht]

Here is the last TSA "Game Used " piece of equipment....Maybe the same TSA guy who talked to Gehrig recently can also give a shout-out to Mick.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=33119&highlight=gehrig+gamer

[justinbittner220]

This has to be the same seller as the Gehrig bat, even if it isn't the same user name...

Does anyone else remember that identical question and answer that say "Will you take this much for it?" followed by "I won't take a penny for it until you tell me why you would pay this much for something you don't know anything about." The same thing was in both auctions.

I wouldn't touch the bat or glove no matter how supposedly authentic they are.

[jbsportstuff]

I'm pretty positive that this guy and TSA are one in the same. It's been suggested that this person is a former GUU forum member trying to stir up crap on our boards.

If you push him too hard, he'll tell you something like he told us about his Lou Gehrig bat when it was brought into question "We have recently contacted Lou Gehrig about his game used bat." This stuff is beyond stupid.

The reason why no one is still arguing with him about his Bench bat is that he is so ridiculous that it's like arguing with a brick wall.