Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

[aeneas01]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=120376954046

ebayer dalcowbill has been floating this staubach fake for years and it appears that he has finally hooked some poor soul to the tune of $2,800 in a "best offer" ebay deal. i suppose the bright side is no one ever jumped on his "buy it now" price of $9,500.

years ago dalcowbill listed this thing, signed by staubach, with a "buy it now" price of $525. but despite having the dumb luck of tracking down an incorrectly dated getty image that seemed to support the lid, his staubach reproduction didn't move. yet dalcowbill's lucky streak wasn't over - he eventually tracked down staubach at a show and was actually able to convince staubach of the helmet's authenticity - further, he was able to get staubach to sign a letter attesting to this claim.

now armed with an incorrectly dated getty image and a letter from staubach, dalcowbill boldy relisted the lid with a "buy it now" price of $9,500. after months and months of no takers the "buy it now" price was lowered to $6,500. eventually a "best offer" was added which produced an offer of $2,800 which has apparently been accepted.

the skinny on the fake sold by dalcowbill:

1. it's a riddell suspension helmet with a date code of 1975
2. staubach stopped wearing a riddell suspension helmet after the 1972 season
3. from 1973 through the time he retired staubach wore a clearshell maxpro helmet
4. the getty image used by dalcowbill to support his helmet was incorrectly dated (1975)
5. the getty image used by dalcowbill is actually from the 1971 season

as i mentioned earlier, dalcowbill had the good fortune of finding a incorrectly dated getty image that shows staubach wearing a suspension helmet in 1975 - this was great luck given the 1975 date code of his reproduction helmet. the problem is the getty image is actually from the 1971 season, should have been dated 1971, during which time staubach did indeed wear a suspension helmet.

using the search term "roger staubach 1975" at getty, all returns except one show staubach sporting his clearshell maxpro helmet - this makes perfect sense given that by 1975 staubach had been wearing a maxpro for 3 years running. in fact staubach switched from a suspension helmet to the better padded maxpro helmet because of his recurring concussion issues. the only image returned showing staubach sporting a suspension helmet is the image dalcowbill used to pitch his lid, an incorrectly dated image, something dalcowbill perfectly understands.

here are two getty images that are supposed to be from the same 1975 playoff game between the cowboys and vikings - both images are dated 1975 and both are described as the same 12/28/75 nfc divisional playoff game. the image on the left is the incorrectly dated image used by dalcowbill, the image on the right is correctly dated and from that game. notice the difference in the cowboys jerseys - the image on the left shows numbers on the sleeves, the image on the right shows numbers on the shoulder pads. 1973 was the last season the cowboys sported numbers on the sleeves of their road jerseys - so how could the image on the left, dalcowbill's supporting image, be from the 1975 season? and, of course, the image on the left shows staubach sporting a suspension helmet and the image on the right shows him sporting his maxpro - that's because the left image is from 1971 and the right image is from 1975.

how long before this fake makes it to the big auction houses?




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[lund6771]

Re: Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

This guy belongs behind bars

[otismalibu]

Re: Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

Is there part of a white stripe on the picture on the left at the bottom of his left sleeve? Maybe different socks too?

[aeneas01]

Re: Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

This guy belongs behind bars

the guy often gets his hands on authentic, quality game used items and therefore will most likely continue to conduct business as usual - especially considering that even though most collectors hate crooked dealers it seems that more than a few are willing to give such dealers a pass when they get their hands on something the collector really wants, something obviously legitimate. frankly i don't know how a collector could ever trust such dealers given that greed obviously drives them...

Is there part of a white stripe on the picture on the left at the bottom of his left sleeve? Maybe different socks too?

yes there are several details that indisputably show that the photo on the left is from earlier than 1975 (the year the helmet in question was manufactured) and was dated incorrectly by the wire service. for example the size of the vikings horns - by 1975 the vikes' horns had taken on a slimmer, more streamlined shape when compared to the early 70s - this can be seen when comparing the two photos. frankly i think the vikes should return to those classic, larger horns - they were great...

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[lund6771]

Re: Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

all part of the scam

[slats7]

Re: Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

Nice "forensic" work by Aeneas. The pants alone should have set off alarm bells, since they got significantly bluer after the 1973 season. Prior to that, they were almost grayish blue. The pic on the left is from the divisional playoff game vs Minnesota in 1971.

Speaking of suspicious Staubach auctions, take a look at this one:

http://www.lelands.com/bid.aspx?auctionid=112&lot=1398

The thumbnail they provide isn't that big or clear, so it's hard to evaluate the jersey in great detail. To the naked eye it looks like it could be the "Hail Mary" jersey (serif font, proper nameplate lettering, screenprinted numbers, etc.), but because of it's more or less pristine condition, that would mean that someone had it washed or dry cleaned.

[gwh11]

Re: Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

The original catalog picture is much better and, as much as you can make an assessment from just using photos, it does appear that this indeed was the jersey Staubach wore in the "Hail Mary" game.

The description states that it was nabbed by a sideline/stadium worker after the game. Nonetheless, someone did wash it afterwards and the ripped hole that is quite visible in the game film ("inside" the front number 2) was repaired after the game.

Guy

[yosef777]

Re: Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

I am sorry to hear that someone got 'taken' on that Staubach helmet. I also contacted the seller about a year ago and tried to explain the same thing Aeneas01 was describing but to no avail as the crook wouldn't listen. Only thing I would add is that Staubacch's original clearshell was actually a Marietta which soon after became MaxPro. Same helmets but different names. It was similar to the way MacGregror became Kelley (via a transfer of ownership).

[yosef777]

Re: Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

Also, didn't Staubach wear the large foam snubber on his Riddell not the typical small, vinyl version?

[cards-bats]

Re: Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

I would keep a lookout to see if the buyer/seller leaves feedback for the transaction and try to contact the buyer that way. It may be too late to do anything, but it would be worth a shot.

[slats7]

Re: Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

The original catalog picture is much better and, as much as you can make an assessment from just using photos, it does appear that this indeed was the jersey Staubach wore in the "Hail Mary" game.

The description states that it was nabbed by a sideline/stadium worker after the game. Nonetheless, someone did wash it afterwards and the ripped hole that is quite visible in the game film ("inside" the front number 2) was repaired after the game.

Guy

Well, for $17K, it better be the real thing.

[slats7]

Re: Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

Also, didn't Staubach wear the large foam snubber on his Riddell not the typical small, vinyl version?

He definitely did in 1971. He missed most of 1972 with a shoulder injury, save for the last two playoff games, so I'm not sure if he was still wearing it. The foam "snubber" was gone for good by 1973.

[aeneas01]

Re: Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

Only thing I would add is that Staubacch's original clearshell was actually a Marietta which soon after became MaxPro. Same helmets but different names. It was similar to the way MacGregror became Kelley (via a transfer of ownership).

very true - in 1973 staubach switched from a tk suspension helmet to a kineomatic clear shell helmet, but for the first few years the kineomatic was sold under the name "marietta" and subsequently under the name "maxpro". i've read that maxpro purchased marietta in 1978 but i believe the deal went through earlier, around 1976.

Also, didn't Staubach wear the large foam snubber on his Riddell not the typical small, vinyl version?

He definitely did in 1971. He missed most of 1972 with a shoulder injury, save for the last two playoff games, so I'm not sure if he was still wearing it. The foam "snubber" was gone for good by 1973.

staubach did sport the stock small rubber snubber during his rookie year but it was gray, the white snubbers and rivet gaskets had yet to be introduced. he then switched to the wider white snubber the following year, a snubber which many cowboys used including calvin hill, mel renfro, etc. - he never did sport the stock small white snubber. here's a link that discusses the helmet before dalcowbill got staubach to sign a letter stating that it was his gamer:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=10018&highlight=staubach

as far as the jersey is concerned: so what's the deal, it was swiped from the sideline and then subsequently repaired? if this is the case, i guess it's not a team repair - wouldn't this decrease the value? anyone that collects vintage football helmets has heard the stories of helmets belonging to great players being swiped - there's a well known story about a helmet and a dumpster. but these stories tend to remind me of the restaurant/bar stories in that, more than often, they seem a convenient alternative to legitimate provenance.

btw i would think if staubach removed his shirt after the game, to put on a flak jacket, he would have removed his shoulder pads at the same time. rather than battling with a jersey, it's much easier to just undo the shoulder pad straps and remove both the shirt and pads together, in one fell swoop - this affords a convenient way to tote them to the locker room.

anyway, the whole thing strikes me as quite a reach - a jersey that looks identical to what he wore the following two weeks against the rams and steelers - and during the regular season. nope, this shirt is not any of these jerseys, it's the one he wore during that very famous "hail mary" game.

here's staubach in the three postseason games of 1975 - from left to right: against the vikes (hail mary game), against the rams the following week and against the steelers in the super bowl.



here's the jersey compared to a couple of photos from the "hail mary" game:



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[slats7]

Re: Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

I'm less and less convinced that this was the Hail Mary jersey (or any jersey from the '75 season), mainly because of the nameplate. In the auction photo, the letters that spell out "STAUBACH" are tightly bunched, especially the letters AUB and UBA. Here's some screengrabs of Roger warming up a week later before the game vs. the Rams:



And here he is in Super Bowl X:



Notice how much space there is between all of the letters.

Now take a look at the auction jersey:



No comparison to the previous two examples. Also, the number "12" appears to be too high on the front of the jersey, and the sleeves a tad too short. Likewise, the numbers and nameplate appear to be navy blue, whereas the Cowboys used royal blue. Something tells me someone got ripped off.

[gwh11]

Re: Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

I like these discussions; significant pieces, even if they've been sold years ago, should be worthy of scrutiny.

Kind of an odd story that goes w/this jersey; I think it's more useful to see if the jersey stands on it's own merits, using any available visual resources.

I would think that the jerseys used in the subsequent games would be different, since the "Hail Mary" jersey would have that noticable rip/repair on the front. I'll see if I can post some video stills from that game. The nameplate seems to match up (in the "Hail Mary" game, I mean).

Guy