1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!

[hblakewolf]

Forum readers-
Offered on Ebay is a 1990 McGwire A's home jersey:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8799986412

Only one minor problem.........

The C in McGwire is incorrectly placed.

Please see this photo from Getty:


1990 World Series.

Or, yet another photo from 1990..


I have sold 2 1990 McGwire jerseys, and neither had the C placed like the one offered on Ebay. I welcome someone to produce a photo from 1990 with the C placed in a similar fashion as the one offered on Ebay.

The jersey on Ebay does however, have a LOA from Grey Flannel!

As I always say, do your homework and line the birdcage with any LOA that is not from the team.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[mchmaj]

Re: 1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!

seem u did not research enuff ..
i found photo that has his C on lower case

[BAT-DNA]

Re: 1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!

Mr. Wolf, did you e-mail the seller and ask about this discrepency before posting this, if so what did they say?

[whatupyos]

Re: 1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!

I agree with Howard. I have over 200 McGwire cards from that era and none of them have the C low on the nameplate, they all have them high. Also Getty has made errors in the past by not being too reliable on their dates to their photos. The Big Mac and Eric Davis photo we know if legit becasue of the patch on Davis jersey for the World Series so we know for sur eits a 90. I have an email in to the seller so we will see, but I wouldnt pay jack squat for that jersey, just my opinion, if anyone else thinks otherwise, I can respect their opinion, just saying I wouldnt want to risk it.

Aaron

[trsent]

Re: 1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!

Howard did you email the seller in advance of your post and ask them about your concern? If so, what was their reply?

I know someone posted about all the trading cards they have, but generally back then weren't trading cards only made from photos from the previous season? Even then, what is the explain the difference from the pictures Howard posted to the one later posted by user: mchmaj?

I just do not understand, when you make such a post, why don't you tell us about your attempts to reach the seller in your original post? This item was listed about 36 hours before your post on the forum, so if you attempted to reach the seller, I would assume over the weekend would not be ample time to make an accusation that they are knowing selling a doctored item, which later photo-evidence shows they may have a legitimate item.

I hope you had a nice weekend, I wasted my morning yesterday at Wrigley Field, but I'll start a new thread to discuss that.

[hblakewolf]

Re: 1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!

Joel-
I sent the seller 2 emails, and as of today, have never heard a word back.

The photo I posted from Getty has a specific date listed with it, and likewise, can be EXACTLY dated to the World Series in 1990. The other poster's photo did not have a specific date associated with it, rather a generic caption on Getty indicating it was from 1990. The difference here is that Getty often indicates a photo is from a certain year, however, it is incorrectly listed. The photo I provided can be traced to 1990, and the jersey in qestion differes from my photo with Eric Davis.

Furthermore Joel, I never stated that the seller is offering a "doctored" item. This may be your take, but I never made mention of this. Do you believe it is doctored?

My post has no hidden meaning. I have not seen a McGwire from 1990 with the small C placed in this position. As such, I'm asking for the forum's assistance in providing proof, either positive or negative.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

Howard did you email the seller in advance of your post and ask them about your concern? If so, what was their reply?

I know someone posted about all the trading cards they have, but generally back then weren't trading cards only made from photos from the previous season? Even then, what is the explain the difference from the pictures Howard posted to the one later posted by user: mchmaj?

I just do not understand, when you make such a post, why don't you tell us about your attempts to reach the seller in your original post? This item was listed about 36 hours before your post on the forum, so if you attempted to reach the seller, I would assume over the weekend would not be ample time to make an accusation that they are knowing selling a doctored item, which later photo-evidence shows they may have a legitimate item.

I hope you had a nice weekend, I wasted my morning yesterday at Wrigley Field, but I'll start a new thread to discuss that.

[trsent]

Re: 1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!

Furthermore Joel, I never stated that the seller is offering a "doctored" item. This may be your take, but I never made mention of this. Do you believe it is doctored?

My post has no hidden meaning. I have not seen a McGwire from 1990 with the small C placed in this position. As such, I'm asking for the forum's assistance in providing proof, either positive or negative.

Howard, your post before discussing this with the seller is the reason you have not received a reply. I did speak with the seller about this item this morning, and they are really hot that your post came up stating their item was not genuine without first discussing it with them.

You don't like the jersey, and you didn't give a reasonable time for a reply about the item. It was the weekend, and the auction doesn't end for a few days, so you could have waited until Monday to post your findings but you didn't give the seller ample time to reply. Someone posted a photo showing the jersey with the "C" in the same location, and you won't accept the jersey may be genuine.

How do you reply about the photo that was posted later with the "C" in the same location? I do not believe your argument that the Getty images photos being dated make it so you can make a post without first contacting the seller. We use Getty as a free service to help us verify jerseys based on photographic evidence. Besides, Getty for jerseys from this era is not a great source, because generally they do not have many examples from the season to support reasonable negative evidence.

There is new evidence posted since your original post, do you have a reply to this?

[Eric]

Re: 1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!

Howard-

The title of your thread suggests the seller is offering something that's not as listed.

You said you sent 2 emails to the seller. Did you contact the seller and give him a chance to respond BEFORE you posted here?

Eric

[hblakewolf]

Re: 1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!

Eric/Joel-
As per the rules of the Forum, I did contact the seller (TWICE!!!) before making my post, however, never heard back. What's really intersting here is that Joel indicates the seller is not pleased with my post, yet, the seller makes no effort to either answer my emails to him or respond here?

Joel, I must disagree with your thoughts on Getty. The Getty photo showing the C in the same location as the offered jersey has no specific date associated with it. We have seen errors with Getty images being incorrectly dated before, and I believe this is yet another case of this. Who knows if it is even from 1990! Can you produce a photo from Getty or similar photo service dating this style of nameplate to 1990, and having the name on back of the jersey match it? I tried to find a photo on Getty and my personal collection that matches the nameplte style in 1990, however, could not.

I welcome either of you or another Forum reader to provide another photo that can actually be dated to 1990, such as the one with Eric Davis that I posted.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[Eric]

Re: 1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!

Just so I understand specifically, when did you email the seller and when did you post here?
Eric

[hblakewolf]

Re: 1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!

Eric-
Contacted the seller the day before making my post, as per your stated rules. Likewise, I have never heard back from this"upset" seller, as Joel notes.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[trsent]

Re: 1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!

Howard, that is not the point.

You found two photos and some trading cards were also brought up. That doesn't mean in any way, shape or forum (a pun, get it?) that the jersey is not genuine.

The Canseco and Puckett photos are both found on Getty as from the 1990 season. Based on this information, it would show that Mac may have worn a jersey with such lettering as found on the jersey you have questioned from eBay.

Now, you just mentioned that you felt the Puckett photo is mis-dated, but you have no evidence or proof to this point that may cost a seller money because of your post without evidence.

The caption for this photo reads:

"1990: Kirby Puckett #34 of the Minnesota Twins talks with Mark mcGwire #25 during a game in the 1990 season. (Photo by: Otto Greule Jr/Getty Images) "

You state that you attempted to contact the seller, but you didn't wait a reasonable period of time before stating in your title "NOT!!!!!" which points to your point that you feel the item is not genuine. I do not know if it is genuine or not, but if I was looking to buy this item I would first contact the seller and wait the weekend for a reply. You didn't and the seller received contact from people about the forum post, which may be why you personally have not received a reply - That I do not know.

[trsent]

Re: 1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!

Howard, please advise, your post about this jersey was made yesterday around 1PM (who knows the time zone? That is what I show on the forum's clock on my computer.) and your only email to the seller asking your question was at Sun, Apr 23, 2006 3:58 pm (I assume this is East Coast time, but what do I know). How is this considered timely?

I privately emailed you asking for you to call me, I really don't want to continue going over this with you in public.

[hblakewolf]

Re: 1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!

Joel-
Ask the seller, Brad Horne, to check his email again. Likewise, why can't Brad respond and speak on this issue himself?

Just curious.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[trsent]

Re: 1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!

Joel-
Ask the seller, Brad Horne, to check his email again. Likewise, why can't Brad respond and speak on this issue himself?

Howard, I have not talked to Brad Horne in about four years, the last time he called me when he was in Las Vegas. I did talk to a gentleman named Steve about this jersey as Steve has bought from me in the past.