thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

[clinton2828]

http://www.greyflannelauctions.com/LotDetail3.aspx?lotid=21246


thoughts?

[trsent]

http://www.greyflannelauctions.com/LotDetail3.aspx?lotid=21246


thoughts?

Cool looking jersey. I wonder why JSA was needed to authenticate the signature since the MLB database showed that the jersey was autographed at a Derek Jeter private signing in 2002? The MLB hologram is for the autograph on the jersey, so I do not know why they would pay JSA to authenticate it again.

[kingjammy24]

a cursory glance shows that the bottom seam on the russell tag has been sewn twice over. this is atypical to say the least. the stitching on all 4 sides should be neat, single-line stitches. the bottom of the GFC tag appears to have been resewn.
the top image is GFC's tag. note the 2 lines of stitching on the bottom of the tag.

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/5569/silly.jpg

note the single stitched bottom on these tags:

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/476/silly2.jpg

other than that, i'm not sure why the year tag is faded yet the poly tag is crisp. the russell tag is from 1993-95. 1996 tags had 5 lines of washing instructions.

rudy.

[trsent]

a cursory glance shows that the bottom seam on the russell tag has been sewn twice over. this is atypical to say the least. the stitching on all 4 sides should be neat, single-line stitches. the bottom of the GFC tag appears to have been resewn.
the top image is GFC's tag. note the 2 lines of stitching on the bottom of the tag.

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/5569/silly.jpg

note the single stitched bottom on these tags:

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/476/silly2.jpg

other than that, i'm not sure why the year tag is faded yet the poly tag is crisp. the russell tag is from 1993-95. 1996 tags had 5 lines of washing instructions.

rudy.

Rudy, interesting with the comment about the 1996 tags having five lines of washing instructions. I see in your images above the 1994 tags have four lines, so how many lines are on the 1995 tags? The Yankees have used jerseys from past years over and over so I figured it may be a 1994 or 1995 jersey.

The bottom tag stitching is interesting. Have you ever seen anything like it before? I assume it is possible they stitched a row twice or the machine did something odd.

[kingjammy24]

..The Yankees have used jerseys from past years over and over so I figured it may be a 1994 or 1995 jersey.

the jersey has a "1996" tag sewn underneath the mfr tag. so you figured that in 1996, the yankees took a 1994 or 1995 jersey, sliced open the bottom of the mfr tag, took out the old 1994/95 tag, slipped in a new 1996 tag and then resewed it?

when the yankees reused jerseys, the original strip tags remained. you think the yankees were swapping year tags every year on their reused shirts?

anyway, the year doesn't even matter that much. the OP wanted thoughts and my thought is i'd never take a russell jersey with the bottom portion of the mfr tag resewn twice over.


I assume it is possible they stitched a row twice or the machine did something odd.

this one's even better than your suggestion that the yankees change year tags when they reuse jerseys.

anyway to answer your other question; have i seen the bottoms of russell tags cut and resewn before? yes..but oddly only on superstar jerseys. maybe the machines only mess up on high-dollar jerseys?

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

The Yankees have used jerseys from past years over and over so I figured it may be a 1994 or 1995 jersey.

actually the strip tag sewn underneath the mfr tag reads "jeter-96".
so..the yankees took a 1994/95 shirt, ripped out the old strip tag, and put a "jeter-96" tag in there?

its the mfr who sews in those strip tags. so maybe the yankees took an old 1994/95 jersey, shipped it back to russell, russell took the old tag out, put a new one in, and then shipped it back to the yankees?

anyway, the armband is sewn too low as well. if you look at photos of the space between the armband and the end of the sleeve, there's enough empty space to fit another armband AND have room left over. the GFC jersey barely has enough space left to fit another armband.

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/6444/sillyk.jpg

rudy.

[trsent]

Rudy, I didn't say you were wrong. I was just thinking of reasons for why it could have been legitimately used against the thoughts that someone had this jersey remade from another jersey.

Thanks for the replies. As usual, your thought process is amazing!

[trsent]

actually the strip tag sewn underneath the mfr tag reads "jeter-96".
so..the yankees took a 1994/95 shirt, ripped out the old strip tag, and put a "jeter-96" tag in there?

its the mfr who sews in those strip tags. so maybe the yankees took an old 1994/95 jersey, shipped it back to russell, russell took the old tag out, put a new one in, and then shipped it back to the yankees?

rudy.

Rudy, just curious - How do you know the Manufacture sews in strip tags and not a local tailor? I was always under the impression that strip tags were added locally by the team and not by the manufacture.

[kingjammy24]

Rudy, just curious - How do you know the Manufacture sews in strip tags and not a local tailor? I was always under the impression that strip tags were added locally by the team and not by the manufacture.

some strip tags were added by the mfr, some locally. depends on the team, year, and mfr.

if you're looking at an early 90s era strip tag with a computer, ink print out on a russell jersey, then it was sewn in by russell.

1) the tags are sewn underneath the mfr tag with a single stitch line over top. if this was done after-the-fact by a local shop, they'd have to tear out the bottom, insert the tag, and resew it. the fact that its sewn under/inside the mfr tag is the first clue it's done by the mfr.

2) russell used the same strip tag on seen on this "96 jeter" on jerseys for many other teams during that era. same material tag, same font for the text. it's a standard russell strip tag for the era. look:
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/1442/sillyn.jpg

4 different teams yet all have the same style of strip tag, same font. same font as is seen on the "96 jeter". same strip tag that russell used for many teams, for many years. if it were done locally, how would several different teams all magically end up with exactly the same font and exactly the same material of tag? some local shop in cleveland just happened to pick the same font as a local shop in chicago and texas and detroit? if it were all done locally, then you'd see a several different styles of strip tags. but you don't. you see 1 style. standard russell strip tags. why are they standard? because they were all put it at the same factory by the same mfr. that's why they all look exactly the same. it's not a coincidence.

plus i've seen a russell order sheet from the mid-90s and it showed the team specifying what information they wanted russell to put on the strip tag.

rudy.

[trsent]

some strip tags were added by the mfr, some locally. depends on the team, year, and mfr.

if you're looking at an early 90s era strip tag with a computer, ink print out on a russell jersey, then it was sewn in by russell.

1) the tags are sewn underneath the mfr tag with a single stitch line over top. if this was done after-the-fact by a local shop, they'd have to tear out the bottom, insert the tag, and resew it. the fact that its sewn under/inside the mfr tag is the first clue it's done by the mfr.

2) russell used the same strip tag on seen on this "96 jeter" on jerseys for many other teams during that era. same material tag, same font for the text. it's a standard russell strip tag for the era. look:


4 different teams yet all have the same style of strip tag, same font. same font as is seen on the "96 jeter". same strip tag that russell used for many teams, for many years. if it were done locally, how would several different teams all magically end up with exactly the same font and exactly the same material of tag? some local shop in cleveland just happened to pick the same font as a local shop in chicago and texas and detroit? if it were all done locally, then you'd see a several different styles of strip tags. but you don't. you see 1 style. standard russell strip tags. why are they standard? because they were all put it at the same factory by the same mfr. that's why they all look exactly the same. it's not a coincidence.

plus i've seen a russell order sheet from the mid-90s and it showed the team specifying what information they wanted russell to put on the strip tag.

rudy.

Cool beans.

I never thought twice about it. Great information.

[trsent]

Rudy, I just received the following email from a jersey expert friend of mine:

"It is extremely common for a 1996 or even 1997 jersey to have a 1993 to 1995 Russell manufacturers tag. Especially when it comes to size 46 or 50 jerseys. I have personally seen this dozens of times on common jerseys. I would assume the reason it is more common on these 2 size jerseys is because they are less used tags. Since size 44,48,52 are also retail sizes they are used more commonly and Russell would have ran out of the faster, but size 46 or 50 are only team issue sizes and used less often they were carried over to 1996 and even 1997."

2nd Email:

"Notice the 1998 Tigers tag shown by Rudy, it is a 1993-1995 Russell manufacturers tag, 4 lines."

[clinton2828]

rudy,
amazing work once again. i was thinking about spending alot of money to get the jersey but personally think too many questions remain.

[kingjammy24]

Rudy, I just received the following email from a jersey expert friend of mine:

"It is extremely common for a 1996 or even 1997 jersey to have a 1993 to 1995 Russell manufacturers tag. Especially when it comes to size 46 or 50 jerseys. I have personally seen this dozens of times on common jerseys. I would assume the reason it is more common on these 2 size jerseys is because they are less used tags. Since size 44,48,52 are also retail sizes they are used more commonly and Russell would have ran out of the faster, but size 46 or 50 are only team issue sizes and used less often they were carried over to 1996 and even 1997."

this hasn't been my experience in the least. let's see some photos posted of a good amount of 96 and 97 commons showing 93-95 tags. besides, i don't even have that much of an issue with the tag per se. the fact that bottom has been resewn is the big issue.


"Notice the 1998 Tigers tag shown by Rudy, it is a 1993-1995 Russell manufacturers tag, 4 lines."

what an expert. i love it. i didn't post a 1998 tigers tag. i posted a 1994 tigers tag. you know what your expert friend did joel? they read the last number on the tag - 98 - and thought it was the year instead of the inventory number. expert: what's the first number on the tag? 94 right? that's the year. the last number on a tigers tag is always the inventory number. here's another 1994 tigers tag. i'm guessing your expert thinks it's from 1960 right?

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/5569/silly.jpg

joel why do you listen to people like this?

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/93/sillyw.jpg

all of the photos of 1996 yankees i've seen show the armband sewn high enough to be able to easily accomodate another armband sewn below. in other words, the remaining space is greater than the width of the armband.

in GFC's 1996 jeter, the remaining space isn't even enough to accomodate a second armband.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/1852/sillyq.jpg

rudy.

[lund6771]

Rudy....Is there an additional red flag since it does not come with a Steiner letter?

[kingjammy24]

Rudy....Is there an additional red flag since it does not come with a Steiner letter?

the steiner deal came about in 2005. while it's true that steiner received decades worth of old shirts, i imagine some yankee shirts got out in all of the years prior to 2005. at least, that's the reasoning that could be given; that the shirt was acquired prior to 2005.

for me, the issues are

1) double-sewn bottom of the mfr tag, suggesting it's been opened up and resewn. if it was any other edge except the bottom it wouldn't be nearly as damning. the bottom edge is the one of course that holds the "jeter-96" strip tag and poly tag.

2) armband is sewn too low.

3) russell tag is circa 1993-95.

4) poly tag is as crisp as a fall morning in vermont. it's a little odd to see a faded strip tag with a poly tag that hasn't even begun to curl in the least. usually the curling starts first, then the fading.

#1 is pretty bad. #2 just makes it worse. #3 isn't a huge issue. #4 isn't good. "premier lot".

rudy.

[trsent]

this hasn't been my experience in the least. let's see some photos posted of a good amount of 96 and 97 commons showing 93-95 tags. besides, i don't even have that much of an issue with the tag per se. the fact that bottom has been resewn is the big issue.



what an expert. i love it. i didn't post a 1998 tigers tag. i posted a 1994 tigers tag. you know what your expert friend did joel? they read the last number on the tag - 98 - and thought it was the year instead of the inventory number. expert: what's the first number on the tag? 94 right? that's the year. the last number on a tigers tag is always the inventory number. here's another 1994 tigers tag. i'm guessing your expert thinks it's from 1960 right?



joel why do you listen to people like this?

rudy.

Rudy, my friend is one of the two modern experts I use for jerseys. Sorry if he made an error reading your image of a Tigers tag, but he wants me to wager with you that we can come up with multiple samples of such jerseys used in future years. So he misread an image - You could sit down with him and learn something if you looked at his comments as his knowledge of the modern era baseball jerseys is one I would rank up there with yours.

Were his other comments not valid and useful information or is he just going to be picked on for misreading an image of a tag? He made valid points that you ignored.

Everything else you posted is true.

1996 and 1997 Russell Baseball jerseys can have the tags carried over often on size 46 and 50 from the 1993-1995 tagged jerseys.

Do you not accept this point as realistic?

[kingjammy24]

"1996 and 1997 Russell Baseball jerseys can have the tags carried over often on size 46 and 50 from the 1993-1995 tagged jerseys.

Do you not accept this point as realistic?"

i know they can, which is why i stated about 3 times now that the earlier-era tag isn't a big deal. if there's any contention, it's over how common this practice was. i know it occurred but your mysterious friend says it was "extremely common". anyway, i think this issue isn't truly relevant to this thread because it doesn't change things either way. the truth is if the tag hadn't been resewn and if the armband had been sewn in the proper place, i wouldn't have posted about the jersey at all. on the other hand, if we say the russell tag itself is A-OK, then we're still left with the most glaring issues of the resewn tag and the armband sewn too low. the issue of the carried-over russell tag does nothing to either of those two issues. we can discuss it all day long and at the end of the day you're still left with those 2 main issues on the jersey so what's the point?

if you want to discuss the issue, you can start another thread about the commonality of carried over russell tags and we can discuss it there. seeing as how your friend sent you emails, it seems safe to assume he has access to a computer. i'm not sure why he's using you as an intermediary. it'd seem easier for him to post directly so that you don't end up misinterpreting or miscommunicating his points.

"My friend provided some valid information, especially about jersey sizes and tags being carried over from year to year that is being ignored in a discussion to better educate the hobby"

it wasn't ignored. i stated early on that carryovers being "extremely common" wasn't consistent with my experience. what more to say? the reason there's no effort to focus on this issue is because it's a non-issue in regards to this specific 1996 jeter jersey. i said numerous times it wasn't a big deal. i said it simply because i thought that anyone preparing to spend big bucks on such an iconic shirt as a jeter home rookie gamer should know that the tag is out-of-era. it's a non-issue because even if you accept the tag was carried over, then you're still left with 2 huge elephants in the room. to me, this discussion should focus on those elephants and not on something that's a relatively minor, inconsequential issue. to me, even the lack of wear seen on the crisp poly tag is a bigger issue than the carried-over russell tag.

rudy.

[trsent]

"1996 and 1997 Russell Baseball jerseys can have the tags carried over often on size 46 and 50 from the 1993-1995 tagged jerseys.

Do you not accept this point as realistic?"

i know they can, which is why i stated about 3 times now that the earlier-era tag isn't a big deal. if there's any contention, it's over how common this practice was. i know it occurred but your mysterious friend says it was "extremely common". anyway, i think this issue isn't truly relevant to this thread because it doesn't change things either way. the truth is if the tag hadn't been resewn and if the armband had been sewn in the proper place, i wouldn't have posted about the jersey at all. on the other hand, if we say the russell tag itself is A-OK, then we're still left with the most glaring issues of the resewn tag and the armband sewn too low. the issue of the carried-over russell tag does nothing to either of those two issues. we can discuss it all day long and at the end of the day you're still left with those 2 main issues on the jersey so what's the point?

if you want to discuss the issue, you can start another thread about the commonality of carried over russell tags and we can discuss it there. seeing as how your friend sent you emails, it seems safe to assume he has access to a computer. i'm not sure why he's using you as an intermediary. it'd seem easier for him to post directly so that you don't end up misinterpreting or miscommunicating his points.

"My friend provided some valid information, especially about jersey sizes and tags being carried over from year to year that is being ignored in a discussion to better educate the hobby"

it wasn't ignored. i stated early on that carryovers being "extremely common" wasn't consistent with my experience. what more to say? the reason there's no effort to focus on this issue is because it's a non-issue in regards to this specific 1996 jeter jersey. i said numerous times it wasn't a big deal. i said it simply because i thought that anyone preparing to spend big bucks on such an iconic shirt as a jeter home rookie gamer should know that the tag is out-of-era. it's a non-issue because even if you accept the tag was carried over, then you're still left with 2 huge elephants in the room. to me, this discussion should focus on those elephants and not on something that's a relatively minor, inconsequential issue. to me, even the lack of wear seen on the crisp poly tag is a bigger issue than the carried-over russell tag.

rudy.

Rudy, no one doubted your finds about the Jeter jersey. I was just expanding the discussion. You made points and when we showed one of them to have alternatives, you rub it in my face that the point is the weakest of the points you made so I should start a new thread? What?

You made points, and the one you find weakest we showed is not a fully valid reason. The other points are valid issues and good for you keeping them close to the topic but do not discredit me for bringing valid information to the discussion because you find it discredits the weakest of your reasoning for questioning this item.

Also, sorry - I have friends who will not post on this forum as they do not appreciate the way people are abused. You can get over it or you can let me post.

Notice often I quote people who email me. Sometimes I attribute it and sometimes I don't. Some people just don't want the headaches I deal with because of the abuse I receive for making comments to a discussion and I can see why they email me instead of posting.

[nyjetsfan14]

Great job Rudy, the efforts are much appreciated by me and most/all board members I am sure. Though I am not a baseball collector your findings do help me become more aware and educated about the hobby as a whole. Your knowledge, posts, inquisitive nature, and the way you project all three is a major reason this board is such a valuable resource. I know I speak for many when I say thanks and keep up the awesome work and contributions to the hobby and forum alike.

[clinton2828]

when i called gfc they had no explination for the double stitching, they jsut said, if you dont feel comfortable dont bid.

i am goin to pass on the jersey.

[kingjammy24]

when i called gfc they had no explination for the double stitching, they jsut said, if you dont feel comfortable dont bid.

i am goin to pass on the jersey.

the bigger question is why GFC feels comfortable with it. they have no explanation for this anomaly yet they're comfortable with it and will run it anyway? nice. they don't know why it'd be resewn and apparently they don't care. as long as the shirt fetches a good price. and then richie whines and bitches about the forum. richie, if you wouldn't run jerseys with resewn tags then maybe people wouldn't complain and you wouldn't feel attacked. richie strikes me as the sort of guy who shoots himself in the foot and then complains that it hurts.

i've seen many russell shirts from this era and if it were me, i wouldn't touch any russell gamer with a resewn mfr tag. the fact that this is a superstar rookie gamer and the fact that the armband is sewn lower than can be seen in many other 1996 yankees photos makes the whole thing even worse.

rudy.

[mvandor]

Is not this jersey MLB Authenticated? If you feel the jersey is bad, how did it get that authentication?

Just curious.

[kingjammy24]

Is not this jersey MLB Authenticated? If you feel the jersey is bad, how did it get that authentication?

Just curious.

the jersey is not MLB authenticated. how would the MLB authenticate a 13 yr old jersey? if you go to http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/authentication/
and type in the number found on the hologram - MT 00092701 - you'll see that the MLB authentication pertains only to the derek jeter autograph:

Session Name: DEREK JETER PRIVATE SIGNING
Session Date: September 12, 2002
Autographer: DEREK JETER
Authenticator: AUTHENTICATORS, INC.
Additional Information: NYY JERSEY

i have no doubt the signature is legit. the jersey on the other hand is another story.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

"Q: How can I get my personal memorabilia authenticated under the MLB Authentication Program?

A: Unfortunately, we do not authenticate past autographs or game-used items. Currently, our system only authenticates items that are directly witnessed by a designated MLB Authenticator at the moment it is signed or used and only in conjunction with a Club or MLB Authentication Licensee."

rudy.

[clinton2828]

i dont think we can let this thread die, someone might throw away alot of money if it is not real. i think the double stitching on the tag is questionable but maybe explainable, i think the better argument is the placement of the black arm bad. that one is a SLAM DUNK, if no photo evidence is produce to counter the several pics alrady posted!

hell i hope we find pics that prove us wrong i would bid to win but i wont spend that type of $$ will all these quesitons.

[flaco1801]

rudy why was the tag re sewn? what could have been changed? .. and somebody tell me why to buy from an auction house? ty, jeff

[kingjammy24]

what could have been changed? ..

the "jeter-96" strip tag.

rudy.

[flaco1801]

gotcha thanks..

[kingjammy24]

i dont think we can let this thread die, someone might throw away alot of money if it is not real.

here's the thing; GFC has posted pics that pretty clearly show the bottom of the tag is resewn. GFC is aware that it's resewn. reminds me of this comment dave bushing recently made:

"A couple of weeks ago, a client was interested in buying a 1920's Hall of Fame calibre jersey for upwards of six figures. When I looked at it for him, it took but a few seconds to tell him it was a complete and deliberate fake. Likewise, last summer a Mickey Cochrane jersey for $75,000 that was also a deliberate fake. The client did not know old jerseys and would have shelled out upwards of a couple hundred thousand dollars."

people have more money than sense. they buy things they don't understand. robert recently made the comment that buyers are becoming savvier and i suppose i'd agree that the baseline knowledge of collectors in general has increased due to this forum. that said, it seems there are still a good number of people out there spending thousands on items that they have no idea about and beyond that, apparently don't even realize the problem of buying things you don't understand. either buyers aren't looking or they don't care and i don't understand the logic behind the latter. you can't do much more for people like that.

GFC realizes it's resewn and said it doesn't have any idea why. so then why keep it in the auction? i don't understand their cavalier attitude about such a red flag.

flaco: the strip tag is sewn underneath the mfr tag so if you were to replace the strip tag, say for example to turn a common player or a spare jersey into a superstar, or even just to add a strip tag where there previously was none, you'd either remove the mfr tag entirely and resew the whole package (mfr tag + strip tag + poly tag) or if you were lazy you'd just pop open the bottom of the mfr tag, remove anything you don't like, add what you want, and resew it. russell mfr tags were typically sewn pretty neatly. it's a pretty big red flag and when you toss in the armband placement and the lack of tagging wash wear, it seems very hard to have any good feelings about the shirt.

rudy.

[JETEFAN]

Rudy and Joel,

How does this look......

[suicide_squeeze]

the bigger question is why GFC feels comfortable with it. they have no explanation for this anomaly yet they're comfortable with it and will run it anyway? nice. they don't know why it'd be resewn and apparently they don't care. as long as the shirt fetches a good price. and then richie whines and bitches about the forum. richie, if you wouldn't run jerseys with resewn tags then maybe people wouldn't complain and you wouldn't feel attacked. richie strikes me as the sort of guy who shoots himself in the foot and then complains that it hurts.

i've seen many russell shirts from this era and if it were me, i wouldn't touch any russell gamer with a resewn mfr tag. the fact that this is a superstar rookie gamer and the fact that the armband is sewn lower than can be seen in many other 1996 yankees photos makes the whole thing even worse.

rudy.


Your "letter" is on the way.....

Oh, and keep an ear out for the knock on that front door.;)

[kingjammy24]

Rudy and Joel,

How does this look......

hey what do you know, a '96 jeter with a proper-era tag and clean stitching on all 4 sides. who would've thought.

clinton2828, i'm curious what sort of explanations do you think might be plausible for the re-stitched tag?

rudy.

[trsent]

hey what do you know, a '96 jeter with a proper-era tag and clean stitching on all 4 sides. who would've thought.

clinton2828, i'm curious what sort of explanations do you think might be plausible for the re-stitched tag?

rudy.


here's the thing; GFC has posted pics that pretty clearly show the bottom of the tag is resewn. GFC is aware that it's resewn.

Did Grey Flannel respond to anyone about your concerns with this jersey?

You stated that they know the tag is re-sewn. I was wondering if you received an email from them or called them to discuss since I have not discussed the jersey in question with them so I was wondering how you determined that they know of your concerns?

Then again, maybe they decided that your findings are not enough to pull the item based on where the item originated. I don't know the answers , but I can speculate as good as anyone else.

[kingjammy24]

"Did Grey Flannel respond to anyone about your concerns with this jersey?

You stated that they know the tag is re-sewn. I was wondering if you received an email from them or called them to discuss since I have not discussed the jersey in question with them so I was wondering how you determined that they know of your concerns?"


when i called gfc they had no explination for the double stitching, they jsut said, if you dont feel comfortable dont bid.

rudy.

[clinton2828]

rudy,

as for the explination for the tag being resewn i could not be sure myself, but who knows? maybe the person sewing it did it by accident, heck they are sewing hundreds or jerseys or the thread could have got caught on the machine , who knows?

the point i was trying to make, is that our point about the placement of the arm bad is the stronger argument becuase we can produce photo evidence that can confirm or contradict the placement. thus making it real or fake. as for now the evidence has shown it is misplaced.

and as i stated i hope photos suface that it is place corrected and the stripes match up because i would want to bid.

but as for now there are too many questions about the jersey.


also what i dont understand is that these auction houses dont push hard to find photo matche or style match. they should have a person dedicated to it or even offer lower consignment fees to items that have team letters or photo matches because it really increases the final bid prices.

heck look at the prices tomlinson jerseys from nfl auction fetch usually like 6k while ones in there auction houes only get abut 2k. now think how much money auction houses could make for themselves and clients if they were able to photo match items.


with the nfl with only 16 games it is not that hard to photo match items.

i think these auction houses revenue whould be cut in at least in half if this was the case.

[suicide_squeeze]

Rudy, no one doubted your finds about the Jeter jersey. I was just expanding the discussion. You made points and when we showed one of them to have alternatives, you rub it in my face that the point is the weakest of the points you made so I should start a new thread? What?

You made points, and the one you find weakest we showed is not a fully valid reason. The other points are valid issues and good for you keeping them close to the topic but do not discredit me for bringing valid information to the discussion because you find it discredits the weakest of your reasoning for questioning this item.

Also, sorry - I have friends who will not post on this forum as they do not appreciate the way people are abused. You can get over it or you can let me post.

Notice often I quote people who email me. Sometimes I attribute it and sometimes I don't. Some people just don't want the headaches I deal with because of the abuse I receive for making comments to a discussion and I can see why they email me instead of posting.


Joel,

Ya think?

Didn't you know everybody here is a genius....an expert. You and your friends can't possibly add anything to the mix.:rolleyes:

And GOD forbid you ever try to stand up for yourself.....then the personal attacks start to fly.

But it's O.K., some of us have thicker skin, so we can handle it.

Speak your mind.....any and every argument may bring light to something worth discussing.

It says a lot about the individuals here who, as knowledgeable and helpful as they are with their expertise and visual examples of their points, find it necessary to publicly insult people they don't even know for asking a question that appears legit.

Steve

[suicide_squeeze]

i dont think we can let this thread die, someone might throw away alot of money if it is not real. i think the double stitching on the tag is questionable but maybe explainable, i think the better argument is the placement of the black arm bad. that one is a SLAM DUNK, if no photo evidence is produce to counter the several pics alrady posted!

hell i hope we find pics that prove us wrong i would bid to win but i wont spend that type of $$ will all these quesitons.

slinton2828,

You won't.

Rudy's example's are rock solid. They is no resonable explanation for any of them.

My personal taste in game used items is that of wanting pieces that have not been altered. That would eliminate any need for searching out reasonable explanations for what has been discussed on this jersey.

What you end up doing is trying to explain away the problems.....all because you desire to own a piece from a player you adore.

There will be other pieces with iron-clad provenance (like picture matches, no questionable issues, etc.).......pass and wait for something else. And if your argument is "Yeah, but I'd have to pay through the nose for a piece like that".....then you are falling into the hobby trap.

You get what you pay for. If you can't afford something you want, is there any sense to be made of buying something "questionable" just so you can fill that need?

We all have to live without in some regard. Save. Wait. Your day will come.

"Caveat emptor".

[suicide_squeeze]

rudy,

as for the explination for the tag being resewn i could not be sure myself, but who knows? maybe the person sewing it did it by accident, heck they are sewing hundreds or jerseys or the thread could have got caught on the machine , who knows?

the point i was trying to make, is that our point about the placement of the arm bad is the stronger argument becuase we can produce photo evidence that can confirm or contradict the placement. thus making it real or fake. as for now the evidence has shown it is misplaced.

and as i stated i hope photos suface that it is place corrected and the stripes match up because i would want to bid.

but as for now there are too many questions about the jersey.


also what i dont understand is that these auction houses dont push hard to find photo matche or style match. they should have a person dedicated to it or even offer lower consignment fees to items that have team letters or photo matches because it really increases the final bid prices.

heck look at the prices tomlinson jerseys from nfl auction fetch usually like 6k while ones in there auction houes only get abut 2k. now think how much money auction houses could make for themselves and clients if they were able to photo match items.


with the nfl with only 16 games it is not that hard to photo match items.

i think these auction houses revenue whould be cut in at least in half if this was the case.

clinton2828,

First off, sorry I made a typo on your name in the previous post:o

I made mention on this very subject in a recent post....

If auction houses followed your recommendation, they would have one employee, in shipping, and have maybe 6 items to auction in their 3-4 auctions a year. It's a lot easier to list what they have consigned, and let the buyers figure it out, and go crazy bidding.

Your point is solid as the few times the items they DO sell, with photo match pictures to support them, go for big bucks, and rightfully so. The questionability of authenticity has been eliminated in these cases. It can't get any better than that.

Trust that any time that fact is available to them (a photo matched item), they will absolutely add it to the auction.

[Danny899]

Joel,

It says a lot about the individuals here who, as knowledgeable and helpful as they are with their expertise and visual examples of their points, find it necessary to publicly insult people they don't even know for asking a question that appears legit.

Steve

You mean members should try to be more professional with their postings here like yourself?

[suicide_squeeze]

You mean members should try to be more professional with their postings here like yourself?

No, Danny899,

I think they should be disingenuous while trying to score a few brownie points with their tight-knit group so they can feel like they belong.

Anything else?

Steve

[Danny899]

No, Danny899,

I think they should be disingenuous while trying to score a few brownie points with their tight-knit group so they can feel like they belong.

Anything else?

Steve

Yes, just one more thing actually. You state that members should be disingenuous in your last post. Why would you ever want that? I certainly would rather they be forthright and credible.

[kingjammy24]

sold for $15,187. very nice. how much would it have sold for if the tag wouldn't have been resewn and the armband in the proper place? $30k?

rudy.

[suicide_squeeze]

sold for $15,187. very nice. how much would it have sold for if the tag wouldn't have been resewn and the armband in the proper place? $30k?

rudy.


$15,187.20 for a jersey signed by Derek Jeter.....at a private signing. MLB verified those facts.

NOT A GAMER......most likely never worn by ANYONE, let alone Derek.....IMO.

I feel elated for the winning bidder. What a lucky guy.....:rolleyes: