Heritage Yount '87

[mattmueller]

The link below is to a photo of a Robin Yount '87 road jersey in Heritage's upcoming auction. In comparing the tagging to the Rawlings primer, it appears this three line wash instructions style of tag was used through 1985. This is an 1987 jersey. I get that sometimes jerseys are kept around, but 2 years? Even if the somewhat penny pinching Brewers went to the back room to fetch a 2 year old jersey for Yount to wear, when would the minty looking flag tag have been attached? It also looks like the strip tag may be sewn under the Rawlings tag, so when would that have been attached? Not sure on the anatomy of how a jersey and its tags are assembled. Anybody have thoughts on this one?

Thanks,
Matt

http://sports.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=714&Lot_No=81927#Photo

[kingjammy24]

In comparing the tagging to the Rawlings primer, it appears this three line wash instructions style of tag was used through 1985. This is an 1987 jersey. I get that sometimes jerseys are kept around, but 2 years? Even if the somewhat penny pinching Brewers went to the back room to fetch a 2 year old jersey for Yount to wear, when would the minty looking flag tag have been attached? It also looks like the strip tag may be sewn under the Rawlings tag, so when would that have been attached? Not sure on the anatomy of how a jersey and its tags are assembled. Anybody have thoughts on this one?


it's rawlings, not the brewers, who affixed the 1987 flag tag. it's also rawlings, not the brewers, who affixed the strip tag. at the factory, the strip tag and the flag tags were laid down and then the mfr tag was sewn on top. look at the way it's all stitched. assuming the jersey is legit purely for discussions sake, the jersey is as the brewers would've first received it in 1987.

depending on the team/year/mfr, sometimes its the team or a local shop who adds the strip tag and sometimes the mfr. one decent way of ascertaining who affixed the strip tag is to see if it goes cleanly under the mfr tag. for a team to do that after the fact would've meant they would've had to rip open the bottom of the mfr tag, insert the strip tag, and then resew the bottom. you'd notice the break and the restitching. it'd be a lot of work for nothing. if a team were to do it, they'd just sew it underneath. much easier.

another thing to keep in mind is the style of these tags. when you have 1 standard style that spans several teams across the country it's likely that the tag came from the mfr. the flag tag on the yount is a standard rawlings flag tag used on practically every rawlings jersey in the 80s and early 90s. there's nothing unique about that particular one. if teams/local shops were doing their own tags then you'd see variances; the tags would be unique. the strip tag on the yount is also a standard rawlings strip tag that was also used for the A's and indians around that time frame and a few other teams. same material, same stitching, same font.

the tag is out-of-era. whenever there's a change in tag style, i imagine there are some of the old tags left over. it's my opinion that it's possible that in such instances, it's possible for a mfr to grab an old tag and use it. i don't think they care much about those sorts of things. that said, i think the most likely time for an error like that to occur would be the year of/following a style change. this tag was used 2 yrs after a tag-style change. possible i suppose but not exactly a "good thing".

the main value of the rawlings primer is to spot the impossible: jerseys with tag styles issued after the purported year of the jersey. eg: a 1988-89 style tag on a "1985" jersey. carryovers are possible, travelling into the future is not.

personally, i think the worst part about the yount isn't so much the tagging but the lack of use. the mfr tag is bright red, the flag tag is stark white, the rawlings tag shows almost no wash wear, the strip tag shows little use. even lampson's description notes "light to moderate use". (i'm guessing it's more "light" than "moderate"). you're talking about an era when players didn't get 10 jerseys a season. it's a 22 yr old jersey worn by a guy who played in 158 games in 1987. as clara peller might say "where's the use?!". what's the real difference between this shirt and a "game issued" yount? probably about $1k+ for the auction house.

rudy.

[suicide_squeeze]

what's the real difference between this shirt and a "game issued" yount? probably about $1k+ for the auction house.

rudy.


There's that common "auction house" theme again.

"Profit"......is all that matters.

The jersey is a beaut.


Just another pig with lipstick.....but no mud on the feet from the stye. Wouldn't have it in my collection.

[hblakewolf]

it's rawlings, not the brewers, who affixed the 1987 flag tag. it's also rawlings, not the brewers, who affixed the strip tag. at the factory, the strip tag and the flag tags were laid down and then the mfr tag was sewn on top. look at the way it's all stitched. assuming the jersey is legit purely for discussions sake, the jersey is as the brewers would've first received it in 1987.

depending on the team/year/mfr, sometimes its the team or a local shop who adds the strip tag and sometimes the mfr. one decent way of ascertaining who affixed the strip tag is to see if it goes cleanly under the mfr tag. for a team to do that after the fact would've meant they would've had to rip open the bottom of the mfr tag, insert the strip tag, and then resew the bottom. you'd notice the break and the restitching. it'd be a lot of work for nothing. if a team were to do it, they'd just sew it underneath. much easier.

another thing to keep in mind is the style of these tags. when you have 1 standard style that spans several teams across the country it's likely that the tag came from the mfr. the flag tag on the yount is a standard rawlings flag tag used on practically every rawlings jersey in the 80s and early 90s. there's nothing unique about that particular one. if teams/local shops were doing their own tags then you'd see variances; the tags would be unique. the strip tag on the yount is also a standard rawlings strip tag that was also used for the A's and indians around that time frame and a few other teams. same material, same stitching, same font.

the tag is out-of-era. whenever there's a change in tag style, i imagine there are some of the old tags left over. it's my opinion that it's possible that in such instances, it's possible for a mfr to grab an old tag and use it. i don't think they care much about those sorts of things. that said, i think the most likely time for an error like that to occur would be the year of/following a style change. this tag was used 2 yrs after a tag-style change. possible i suppose but not exactly a "good thing".

the main value of the rawlings primer is to spot the impossible: jerseys with tag styles issued after the purported year of the jersey. eg: a 1988-89 style tag on a "1985" jersey. carryovers are possible, travelling into the future is not.

personally, i think the worst part about the yount isn't so much the tagging but the lack of use. the mfr tag is bright red, the flag tag is stark white, the rawlings tag shows almost no wash wear, the strip tag shows little use. even lampson's description notes "light to moderate use". (i'm guessing it's more "light" than "moderate"). you're talking about an era when players didn't get 10 jerseys a season. it's a 22 yr old jersey worn by a guy who played in 158 games in 1987. as clara peller might say "where's the use?!". what's the real difference between this shirt and a "game issued" yount? probably about $1k+ for the auction house.

rudy.

Rudy-
As always, great information.

What I find more interesting with the Yount is that it is a SET 2. Likewise, so is the 1987 Sandberg and 1987 Fisk. When was the last time you saw a SET 2 form 1987, let alone 3 jerseys all in the same auction?

Thoughts?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@comcast.net

[trsent]

From my experience with Chris Ivy and Heritage Auction Galleries, I believe their theory is if they have an item in the auction house it is genuine so don't waste your time telling them otherwise.