Revision To Forum Rule About Questioning Items

[ChrisCavalier]

Hello Everyone,

Given the goal of the forum is to help educate collectors, we have amended rule #16 in the forum rules to read as follows:

In instances where a forum member is identifying an item in the hobby they believe to have issues, the poster should clearly state their findings in the form of an opinion and provide adequate rationale for why they believe there is an issue. When possible, we recommend that the poster questioning an item attempt to contact the seller of the item and allow at least 24 hours for the seller to reply before posting. This will prevent postings that may be generated based on misunderstandings of an item. In addition, while this forum is designed to help educate collectors, we will not allow comments that accuse entities in the hobby of participating in any form of criminal wrong-doing. Any posts suggesting criminal wrong-doing should be brought to the attention of the moderators immediately.

To be clear, when possible, we highly recommend that sellers be contacted first before posting opinions about items. However, based on feedback we have received from members, there have been times when contacting a seller have put the questioner in a position of being abused. Therefore, while it is not mandatory, we do ask that individuals do contact sellers whenever possible.

In addition, as a point of clarification, please note that we have added a portion to this rule that states we will not allow comments that accuse others of criminal wrong-doing. Any comments of that nature should be brought to the moderators’ attention immediately.

[trsent]

Hello Everyone,

Given the goal of the forum is to help educate collectors, we have amended rule #16 in the forum rules to read as follows:

In instances where a forum member is identifying an item in the hobby they believe to have issues, the poster should clearly state their findings in the form of an opinion and provide adequate rationale for why they believe there is an issue. When possible, we recommend that the poster questioning an item attempt to contact the seller of the item and allow at least 24 hours for the seller to reply before posting. This will prevent postings that may be generated based on misunderstandings of an item. In addition, while this forum is designed to help educate collectors, we will not allow comments that accuse entities in the hobby of participating in any form of criminal wrong-doing. Any posts suggesting criminal wrong-doing should be brought to the attention of the moderators immediately.

To be clear, when possible, we highly recommend that sellers be contacted first before posting opinions about items. However, based on feedback we have received from members, there have been times when contacting a seller have put the questioner in a position of being abused. Therefore, while it is not mandatory, we do ask that individuals do contact sellers whenever possible.

In addition, as a point of clarification, please note that we have added a portion to this rule that states we will not allow comments that accuse others of criminal wrong-doing. Any comments of that nature should be brought to the moderators’ attention immediately.

Chris, I questioned you in email but I will include my main question here on the forum -

So, is this policy basically stating that it is ok for Howard Wolf to question an item of Grey Flannel's without first emailing his concerns since he has a negative history with this auction house?

I am sure others will use a similar excuse and abuse the policy change. The policy was one of the strong points of the Game Used Universe Discussion Forum. It meant that ANY seller had the right to answer the question of issues before the world could try them without proper representation.

So now you say, on occasion, it is ok to post a questionable item without first contacting the seller, in any situation? So no longer will the forum give the seller 24 hours to respond to a question in some situations so let the witch hunts begin!

My guess is this well run forum could turn more into many of those other forums that do not have proper moderation where everyone calls everything fake without always getting to the bottom of a situation.

Eric Stangel made this rule originally to protect both sides - You basically have undone one of the best policies of this great forum and taken away something reasonable that you required to make this forum fair to all.

[yanks12025]

Joel,
Your just mad because now you can't yell at people when they break the rules. I think it's a good move, because now someone can post a bad item faster and it could save someone their money. Also if you don't like how they run the forum then leave.

[camarokids]

A change for the better!

I think it is a good revision!

As mentioned before sellers do not respond or they ignore you or they ban you.

Also, a member could be asking about an item because they are not sure themselves cause something doesn't look right. Or they just need to ask a question or two.

A lot of times though, a member will know for sure an item is bad!

[ChrisCavalier]

Chris, I questioned you in email but I will include my main question here on the forum -

So, is this policy basically stating that it is ok for Howard Wolf to question an item of Grey Flannel's without first emailing his concerns since he has a negative history with this auction house?

I am sure others will use a similar excuse and abuse the policy change. The policy was one of the strong points of the Game Used Universe Discussion Forum. It meant that ANY seller had the right to answer the question of issues before the world could try them without proper representation.

So now you say, on occasion, it is ok to post a questionable item without first contacting the seller, in any situation? So no longer will the forum give the seller 24 hours to respond to a question in some situations so let the witch hunts begin!

My guess is this well run forum could turn more into many of those other forums that do not have proper moderation where everyone calls everything fake without always getting to the bottom of a situation.

Eric Stangel made this rule originally to protect both sides - You basically have undone one of the best policies of this great forum and taken away something reasonable that you required to make this forum fair to all.
Hello Joel,

As I’ve stated in the private email I sent you (maybe you should have waited 24 hours for a reply before making your post), the primary goal of the forum is protect and educate collectors. As I also stated in the email, we have received calls and emails from members who have been subjected to bad experiences from sellers simply for questioning items. We are not going to require that to happen. On the other hand, as stated in the rule, we do recommend and suggest those questioning items do contact the sellers first to avoid any misunderstandings. We also stated that the motives of the sellers should not be questioned and any accusations about criminal wrong-doing will not be tolerated.

At the end of the day, we expect proper etiquette to be followed when possible and collectors will end up becoming more educated about items that are for sale.

Further, regarding your statement that “Eric Stangel made this rule originally to protect both sides”, you are dead wrong. We actually created that rule (it did not exist before) when the forum was moved to the GUU site with the merger. Again, maybe you should have emailed us first and waited 24 hours before making that statement.

[trsent]

Hello Joel,

As I’ve stated in the private email I sent you (maybe you should have waited 24 hours for a reply before making your post), the primary goal of the forum is protect and educate collectors. As I also stated in the email, we have received calls and emails from members who have been subjected to bad experiences from sellers simply for questioning items. We are not going to require that to happen. On the other hand, as stated in the rule, we do recommend and suggest those questioning items do contact the sellers first to avoid any misunderstandings. We also stated that the motives of the sellers should not be questioned and any accusations about criminal wrong-doing will not be tolerated.

At the end of the day, we expect proper etiquette to be followed when possible and collectors will end up becoming more educated about items that are for sale.

Further, regarding your statement that “Eric Stangel made this rule originally to protect both sides”, you are dead wrong. We actually created that rule (it did not exist before) when the forum was moved to the GUU site with the merger. Again, maybe you should have emailed us first and waited 24 hours before making that statement.

Chris, I didn't wait 24 hours because I wanted my views expressed on the forum for this one topic only.

Your reply above reminds me of the attacks others give on this forum.

I now privately emailed you a way to make you happy and for me to leave the forum forever. If you wish for this - Then this post will not be here (and any others as requested) and the Salem Witch Trials can go on without anyone who cares about both sides of the industry.

Congratulations on your progress. The same people always post behind me but I am the bad guy.

[Vintagedeputy]

Good revision. I'm all for it.

[camarokids]

Chris, I didn't wait 24 hours because I wanted my views expressed on the forum for this one topic only.

Your reply above reminds me of the attacks others give on this forum.

I now privately emailed you a way to make you happy and for me to leave the forum forever. If you wish for this - Then this post will not be here (and any others as requested) and the Salem Witch Trials can go on without anyone who cares about both sides of the industry.

Congratulations on your progress. The same people always post behind me but I am the bad guy.

Witch Hunt ????:confused:????

How about this Joel, just enjoy the forum!

[jobathenut]

trsent-Why don't you start your own forum if you don't like the rules on this one.You really have shown disrespect to cris by calling him out on here by criticizing the rules he has made on his forum.It's one thing that you have made yourself the forum police on here and telling people they are not follwoing the rules,but now you're going after the person who makes the rules,that's uncalled for:( where i might agree with your point,and i do for the most part,it's really rude to tell the person's who forum it is they are wrong about thier rules.It's not what you say,it's how you say it.quote=trsent;136823]Chris, I didn't wait 24 hours because I wanted my views expressed on the forum for this one topic only.

Your reply above reminds me of the attacks others give on this forum.

I now privately emailed you a way to make you happy and for me to leave the forum forever. If you wish for this - Then this post will not be here (and any others as requested) and the Salem Witch Trials can go on without anyone who cares about both sides of the industry.

Congratulations on your progress. The same people always post behind me but I am the bad guy.[/quote]

[mvandor]

When you have auction houses banning GUU members and disabling their accounts simply for questioning an item which is CLEARLY bad, then this revision makes tremendous sense. If I see a bad item on GF, should I REALLY have to go through the motions of emailing them about the item, knowing they will not respond - given that they've disabled my account - before warning others here with some evidence that the item is questionable?

I say good change Chris. Policies here should take into account the insanity going on with auction houses playing these games, folding their tents and reopening under new names, not paying consignors, etc.

Not sure why you feel the need to play the role of The Great Auction House Protector, TRSENT, but whatever floats your boat.

[sammy]

As a long time member of this forum, and the one this originated from, I find this change a positive, and welcome move.

It has been my experience that most sellers of bad material, that know the material is bad, just ignore requests or questions, even if you give these sellers sustainable proof.

Good move Chris.

[Fnazxc0114]

beware of the poor little liberal. they're all out to get me. maybe you can go join the pitty party with frik.

[suave1477]

I love the new rule!!!

[aeneas01]

in the "game used universe forum policies" thread, joel responded to a forum member with the following:


You do not have to agree with my views, but abuse of questioning items without contact the seller first is a serious issue that we have seen can lead to legal issues.

of course most forum members know perfectly well that simply questioning and/or debating an item's authenticity without first running it buy a seller will not lead to "legal issues" as joel incorrectly states. further, i believe that most forum members know perfectly well what sort of post, what sort of tone and language, might trigger a cease and desist order. as such i believe that guu's amendment to rule #16 is very well conceived and entirely consistent with the spirit of this forum. well done guys!

...

[GarkoCollector]

Chris,
I like the rule. I know there have been instances on this site where an item was questioned and later turned out to be legit, only after several people jumped on the seller. Giving people a chance to verify prevents sellers from looking bad and others from looking worse for questioning it.

There will always be people looking for loopholes or reasons why progressions on this site dont suit them, but this is solid progress for the benefit of all members--sellers and buyers alike.

Tom