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JCC1968
05-02-2006, 08:02 PM
Hi group

Wondering what to do. I enjoy reasearching my own vintage material and it can be full of highs and lows. Low case in point.

1) I recently bought at an estate sale a baseball signed by all the umpires from the 05-15-81 Len Barker perfect game he pitched as a Cleveland Indian vs. the BlueJays Len Barker has even signed his name and perfect game and dated it.

Here is my problem:

All the umpires I contacted agree that it is there signatures but refuse to say it is from this game. they say "maybe" or "will not comment" Even Len says "probaly" but no one is willing to put the nail in the coffin on this one. Does anyone else have this problem? I want to docuement this baseball before everyone involved passes on. (I thought this would be easy with the 81 season being so short due to the strike)

Anyone else have this problem? I hate to have a maybe when the baseball has clearly met this requirements


1) game used

2) correct vintage baseball

3) correct signatures

I guess maybe 25 yrs is a long time to remember things. Hell, I would be happy to get just a yes or no answer instead of "not sure" or "probaly"

Jason

mjkm90
05-02-2006, 08:56 PM
They probably signed a bunch of balls. How could you possibly say the ball is game used unless they only signed one and know it was used during the game.

JCC1968
05-02-2006, 09:06 PM
This not always the case . On several other pieces I have been told by the umpires who signed it they are indeed from thoses events in baseball history cases in point.

1) 1980 ALCS series baseball

2) 1977 W.S. baseball



Jason

mjkm90
05-03-2006, 04:50 AM
I agree with you. However, say those guys all signed 10 balls or so after the game. Some might have been used in the game, others were in the bag waiting to be used. Years later it would be tough for them to tell you which were and were not used in the game. I would buy old autographed balls based on the age of the ball and autographs, not on game use. The exception would be provenance that is clean.

skipcareyisfat
05-03-2006, 09:28 AM
I can't imagine a tougher thing to authenticate than a g/u ball, pre-MLB hologramming. Hats may be a close second. I've always wondered why people would spend so much money on no-hitter, perfect game, etc. balls. Then again, I've become paranoid about high-profile, star-related g/u items in recent years. Still, I'm sure you'd have no problem finding an auction house willing to sell the Barker ball to you.

JCC1968
05-03-2006, 12:35 PM
Hi

It 's a little frustration but it can be sooo rewarding. I recently picked up a baseball signed by umpire Larry McCoy and below his name he wrote 1977 World Series. I was alittle skeptical because it was an old style Spalding instead of a new Rawlings. After sending him the information along with pictures. He wrote me back stating that it was indeed game used from this series and that it that his signature was real on the baseball. Most people like myself would think a Spalding baseball in the 1977 World Series is impossible but, who is going to argue with the letter and testimony from the horse's mouth? Anything else is just guessing in my book and in this case impossible to docuement without actual proof.


Jason

mjkm90
05-03-2006, 01:06 PM
I believe he is wrong about that ball. It may have been a warm up ball, but in 1977 Rawlings became the exclusive ball of both leagues for the first time. If anyone thinks Rawlings would allow anything but their balls to be used during the first World Series where they had exclusivity, I have a bridge to sell them.

JCC1968
05-03-2006, 07:53 PM
Hi

I know it sounds strange but who ya going to believe? The guy who signed the baseball who worked the plate or what everyone else wants you to believe? I have had various phone conversations with Mr.McCoy and he said Rawlings was not the only thing in his ball bag. Hey it is possible that some Spaldings made it in right? At least Mr. McCoy thinks so. He felt strong enough to state it in writing.

Jason

suave1477
05-03-2006, 09:55 PM
who is going to argue with the letter and testimony from the horse's mouth?


Jason

JCC1968 I hate to say this but I disagree with you as it has been proven many times by people where players have made mistakes when an item may have been used or signed or something of that nature. Unfortunately you cant just go by the word of that person. There have been many recent cases with mistaken items of players that they say were something that they werent.
Think for a second - Lets say a week ago I put my car keys down in the kitchen I go back to look for them and they are gone now I could swear up and down that they were there just to find out an hour later they are sitting on my bed in my bedroom / its just an honest mishap of memory.

Now here you have an Old Guy whos trying to remember something from 30 years ago who I am sure at this point has millions of memories of the game which all tend to blend together after a while.

I cant remember where I left my car keys were an hour before and I am no where near his age and I am sure you have done something similar / What makes you think he can honestly remember exactly what took place 30 years ago?

JCC1968
05-04-2006, 12:45 PM
Hi

Not trying to start a arguement but when you sign the baseball and write 1977 world series to your clubhouse attendant you would kinda remember this right? I could understand if you just signed your name and nothing else this would be hard but you docuement from what game it was from but, this makes things easier right? With all the information on the ball and with back up testomy on top? How else does anyone else docuement baseballs otherwise from events that happened and the people involved are no longer with us? I hate to disagree but how many of us worked the 1977 World Series? So, isn't possible that the baseball and the man are not wrong?

Jason

mjkm90
05-04-2006, 02:07 PM
I would agree that him dating it makes a big difference. Also, he isn't selling it, just authenticating it. I would say that is good enough for me to be able to sleep at night. Enjoy the ball. I do also believe, now that I think about it, that there could be both brands of balls around. Sponsors probably weren't as freeky as they are today.