$30,000 Namath Helmet?

[aeneas01]

a forum friend pointed me to this namath "gamer" which sold at ami in 2004 for a whopping $30k - according to the colorful (and comically dramatic) lot description:

"The Riddell helmet is the classic and favored RK2 bubble eared shell which Namath only used early in his career."

false. namath wore an rk "bubble eared" helmet from 1965 (his rookie year) through 1971 for a total of 7 seasons - given that willie joe played for 13 years, he actually wore an rk helmet for most of his career.

"The Jets' logos are well "creamed" and their upward angulation between the two side suspension bolts are '60's "specific."

false. the jets transition to a horizontally positioned helmet logo was a slow, uneven process - many players, including namath, sported the upward angled logos well into the '70s. as far as the ami helmet logos being "well creamed", well let's just say that the this uncomfortably peculiar description ranks right up there with the "delicious" unitas helmet.

here are a couple of 1971 photos - the photo on the left shows some jets players still sporting the upward angled helmet logos (which the lot description claims are "'60s specific") and the photo on the right not only shows namath sporting the same upward-angled helmet logos but an rk helmet to boot, 7 years into his career.




"The supporting provenance on this helmet is superlative. It was given by Namath to a prominent New Orleans restaurateur and was displayed in various eateries and bars owned by the family for over 30 years along with other AFL helmets of Lance Alworth, Johnny Robinson, Billy Cannon, Bob Griese, etc."

since when does a helmet hailing from a restaurant/bar constitute "superlative" provenance? sure, outstanding helmets have indeed surfaced from old restaurants and bars, player/team watering holes, but so have an ocean of bunk helmets. and, of course, the restaurant/bar story has always been a favorite among those that peddle doctored helmets which have never seen the inside of a restaurant, bar, locker room or the top of pro's head.

"1966-67 joe namath a.f.l game worn helmet."

namath wore the type of facemask pictured in the lot (bd9) from 1965 (his rookie year) through part of 1967, about 2 1/2 years. at some point in 1967 namath gave up the two-bar mask (never to return to it) in favor of more protection, an opo mask, which he continued to wear throughout the following year, 1968, including the jets' super bowl win over the colts.

so here's the deal - for the ami helmet to be namath's 1967 sombrero it would needed to have been drilled with facemask holes to accommodate his facemask change, but these holes aren't present. or the upgraded facemask should have been included, but it wasn't. and, of course, it's extremely doubtful namath would have dumped his entire helmet in '67 when he switched masks.

so that leaves 1965 and 1966 assuming of course that namath didn't use his '65 or '66 helmet in '67. however this may be moot given that the heat stamped "riddell" logo on the back of the ami helmet appears to be the all caps stenciled version which wasn't introduced until the very late '60s, when namath had stopped wearing the two-bar mask - and the lot description could not very well identify the helmet as a late '60s "namath gamer" because that would make the facemask impossible to explain.

the two photos on the left show the type of "riddell" logo that appears to be present on the ami helmet, a very late '60s logo, stenciled caps. the two photos on the right show the type of "riddell" logo consistent with a helmet from the '65-'67 era (and earlier), caps/cursive.




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[aeneas01]

Re: $30,000 Namath Helmet?

here's a look at what was claimed to be a circa 1972-73 buck buchanan "gamer" that sold at ami a few years ago for $4,200+ large. although i've come across some doozies in my day, this one really does take the cake. someone, and i don't mean an equipment manager, actually took the interior padding from a protective products helmet and crudely "installed" it into a gladiator ghh shell. in order to make this "work", the person had to actually drill holes into the gladiator shell (gladiator ghh helmets were not drilled as they did not incorporate rivets or screws to secure the shell's padding, interior velcro was used to hold the fluid-filled padding in place). so not only did this person drill holes in an effort to add whatever padding he could presumably get his hands on, but he also "ball parked" the screw locations resulting in a very botched job. yet somehow this thing passed mustard? and, fwiw, buchanan didn't even wear a gladiator "water helmet" during the time in question, if ever...

here's a look at the ami buchanan "gamer". note how the front and rear screws (not the facemask screws), numbered in white 1-4 are positioned in relation to center line of the shell, how uneven they are. that's because the holes were manually drilled in order to "install" the padding that you see, padding which came from an entirely different helmet model manufactured by an entirely different helmet company:



the helmet on the left is the ami helmet which, as i mentioned, is a gladiator shell crudely fitted with protective products padding. the helmet in the center is a gladiator with correct padding, the type of padding which should be in the ami helmet. the helmet on the right is a protective products helmet featuring the same padding (less the suspension crown unit) that can be seen in the ami helmet.



here are a couple of game photos of buchanan from 72 & 73. note that he's sporting a suspension helmet and note the top ("t") position of his dungard facemask. like bobby bell and other chiefs, buchanan normally wore his dungard very low, right at the rim of the shell - now note the facemask position of the ami helmet...




here's the ami buchanan ad and lot description... so coupled with the namath helmet, we're up to about $35k, no?



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[princip]

Re: $30,000 Namath Helmet?

I really don't have anything to add here, just thanks for posting these. Very interesting to see, and sad to see what people get away with.

[helmets]

Re: $30,000 Namath Helmet?

buchanan normally wore his dungard very low, right at the rim of the shell - now note the facemask position of the ami helmet...


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Yes, when holes are drilled already in a helmet for a mask, sometimes it is tough to mount the mask in the proper position...

[Vikingshelmetguy]

Re: $30,000 Namath Helmet?

Yes, when holes are drilled already in a helmet for a mask, sometimes it is tough to mount the mask in the proper position...

Wow, Helmets, that Deacon Jones Rams helmet is quite an awesome looking helmet. Is that one that you own??? That's an awesome photo of a classic Rams helmet with the classic white horn! That one looks like the real deal! Very nice photo indeed!

[aeneas01]

Re: $30,000 Namath Helmet?

here's a $12,000 doozie...

this helmet was sold as a 1974-75 bob griese "gamer" by ami a few years ago. it's a wilson f-2101 model which was worn at the pro level by a few players, most notably ken stabler. but is there any evidence whatsoever that griese ever sported a wilson f-2101? absolutely none that i can find. i do believe that wilson put together many salesman samples of these helmets, dressed in team logos, which have made it into the hobby, some becoming "gamers". not sure how anyone could have dropped this kind of cash on this thing...

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the lot description states that the helmet is a "1974-75 bob griese game-worn dolphins helmet". below are game photos of griese during the 1973, 1974 and 1975 seasons - not a wilson in the bunch. obviously tons more exist of this well photographed hall of famer, easily accessible to anyone interested, and not one i've come across shows griese sporting a wilson.



and how about this - the photo on the left is the ami helmet and the photo on the right is yet another wilson f-2101 griese "gamer" that sold at both leland's and grey flannel for around $3,500. however this one was listed as a 1968-70 griese "gamer" - this is particularly interesting given that wilson didn't introduce the f-2101 until the mid '70s afaik. and like the $12,000 ami helmet, the $3,500 helmet has griese's sig as well....



so what are we up to? namath $30,000, buchanan $4,500, griese $12,000, other griese $3,500 x 2 = over $50,000 smackaroos... ouch.

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[aeneas01]

Re: $30,000 Namath Helmet?

re: the griese helmet... could it be that it's his 1976 helmet given that griese did sport such a model that year? was an honest error made by the authenticator when attributing the lid to the 1974/75 season? did the fact that griese was a pro bowler in 1974/75 and not in 1976/77 influence matters? whatever the case, when griese sported a wilson in 1976 he had also moved onto a different facemask, unlike the one that appears in the ami auction...

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[aeneas01]

Re: $30,000 Namath Helmet?

Wow, Helmets, that Deacon Jones Rams helmet is quite an awesome looking helmet. Is that one that you own??? That's an awesome photo of a classic Rams helmet with the classic white horn! That one looks like the real deal! Very nice photo indeed!

sorry helmets, gotta bust ya...



plus:



and finally:




hey, but your point about facemask drill holes is spot on - hard to correctly fit a facemask to player's known specs if the helmet you're working with has already been drilled. a little filler, a little paint, some new holes, correct era side facemask straps and a tale about a dusty old bar near the coliseum that's been long since closed and you've got a $5k+ helmet on your hands - not a bad profit!


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[helmets]

Re: $30,000 Namath Helmet?

sorry helmets, gotta bust ya...

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Come on. You have to do better than that. You know I bought the helmet, we have a conversation on the phone this week about it, and then I sent the photos to you. Easiest "bust" you've ever had. Don't pat yourself on the back too hard on this one Kojak...

[aeneas01]

Re: $30,000 Namath Helmet?

Come on. You have to do better than that. You know I bought the helmet, we have a conversation on the phone this week about it, and then I sent the photos to you. Easiest "bust" you've ever had. Don't pat yourself on the back too hard on this one Kojak...

to those reading this thread, let me clear this up right away! i was having fun with guf member "helmets" and assumed that the helmet nerds on the board would immediately recognize the rams rk helmet as the one recently sold at hunt and realize that "helmets" was the winner and had turned it into a deacon jones lid. as such i put together my little visual display and claimed that i had "busted" him.

to be clear, "helmets" and i correspond frequently (not only does he know helmets like no one's biz, but his wit will have you shooting soda through your nose) and he had emailed me photos of his handiwork, his conversion of the hunt helmet into the deacon helmet. so, again, please don't confuse this playful, and what i believed to be an obvious "bust" with the namath, buchanan and griese helmets that are indeed reasons for concern.

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[helmets]

Re: $30,000 Namath Helmet?

Thanks for the clarification Robert. I would hate for anyone to jump to conclusions and take my posts the wrong way...

Appreciate it.

[Vikingshelmetguy]

Re: $30,000 Namath Helmet?

Thanks for the clarification Robert. I would hate for anyone to jump to conclusions and take my posts the wrong way...

Appreciate it.

Helmets and Aeneas01, please excuse my ignorance: Although I am a total helmet nerd, I did not immediately recognize or realize that Rams RK helmet as being the same one that recently sold at Hunt and that "Helmets" was the winner and that he had turned it into a Deacon Jones lid. Helmets, wow, you had me fooled: That's one heck of a Deacon Jones reproduction! Its a very nice looking RK Rams helmet either way! With this said, I quickly surmised from your (Robert/Aeneas01) great and humorous post of how Helmets converted the Hunt helmet into the Deacon Jones helmet, and Helmet's wry reply back, that there was some sort of playful and inside exchange of laughs going on between you two (Helmets and Aeneas01). No confusion on my end now, and the humor was quickly understood and highly appreciated on my end! I laughed very much at your photos Aeneas01! I especially like the photos of the gal with the can of cleaning spray, and the Dymo tape machine! I am glad my posting about the Deacon helmet triggered the great and funny exchange between you two guys (Helmet and Robert/Aeneas01)!

[cohibasmoker]

Re: $30,000 Namath Helmet?

here's a $12,000 doozie...

this helmet was sold as a 1974-75 bob griese "gamer" by ami a few years ago. it's a wilson f-2101 model which was worn at the pro level by a few players, most notably ken stabler. but is there any evidence whatsoever that griese ever sported a wilson f-2101? absolutely none that i can find. i do believe that wilson put together many salesman samples of these helmets, dressed in team logos, which have made it into the hobby, some becoming "gamers". not sure how anyone could have dropped this kind of cash on this thing...

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the lot description states that the helmet is a "1974-75 bob griese game-worn dolphins helmet". below are game photos of griese during the 1973, 1974 and 1975 seasons - not a wilson in the bunch. obviously tons more exist of this well photographed hall of famer, easily accessible to anyone interested, and not one i've come across shows griese sporting a wilson.



and how about this - the photo on the left is the ami helmet and the photo on the right is yet another wilson f-2101 griese "gamer" that sold at both leland's and grey flannel for around $3,500. however this one was listed as a 1968-70 griese "gamer" - this is particularly interesting given that wilson didn't introduce the f-2101 until the mid '70s afaik. and like the $12,000 ami helmet, the $3,500 helmet has griese's sig as well....



so what are we up to? namath $30,000, buchanan $4,500, griese $12,000, other griese $3,500 x 2 = over $50,000 smackaroos... ouch.

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As I read this thread, I just started to laugh because about 2 weeks ago, I happened to pick-up a Dolphins Salesman sample Wilson made helmet - model F2101 with original striping and helmet logos. As always, you're right on the money.

Jim

flaa1a@comcast.net

[aeneas01]

Re: $30,000 Namath Helmet?

As I read this thread, I just started to laugh because about 2 weeks ago, I happened to pick-up a Dolphins Salesman sample Wilson made helmet - model F2101 with original striping and helmet logos. As always, you're right on the money.

Jim

flaa1a@comcast.net

another thing about these wilson f-2101 dolphin helmets, they were all fitted with pre-1974 decals. as you know, the dolphins changed their decals after the 1973 season, albeit the change was rather subtle. the left photo shows the pre-1974 logo which the wilson helmets were fitted with (dolphin head inside of the circle), the right photo is the post-1973 logo (dolphin head beyond the circle). of course the $12,000 griese "gamer", claimed to be griese's 1974/1975 lid, isn't even fitted with the correct logos - griese's 1974/1975 helmet would have been fitted with the logos on the right, but ami's $12k lid was fitted with the logos on the left...



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[aeneas01]

Re: $30,000 Namath Helmet?

how about this $5,000 "1974-75 merlin olsen game-worn la rams helmet" sold by ami?



olsen was an early adopter of riddell's new cell helmets, switched to one when they hit the scene, and apparently had no problem trading in the suspension model for good which he had worn for close to ten years. but the ami helmet is a pac3, not the type of cell helmet olsen and many other rams players chose to wear in the early '70s. instead olsen opted for a riddell microfit (or ha) fluid-filled cell helmet.

the helmet on the left is a riddell pac3 (ami's "olsen gamer"), the helmet on the right is the type of riddell helmet olsen actually wore during the era in question. it's usually somewhat easy to spot the difference between a pac3 and a microfit type helmet in game photos given that the bulging/protruding air valves along the center ridge of microfit helmets is usually evident, even when covered with protective tape or striping. pac3 helmets have no such air valves.




here are a a few photos of olsen spanning 1972-1976...



now here are some closeups of the above photos, note the air/fluid-filled cells and air valves circled in red...




btw you gotta love the brand spankin' new dymo tape with olsen's name on it featured in the ami lid!

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